Author Topic: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?  (Read 5004 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Rashi

  • Full JTFer
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« on: February 11, 2016, 02:18:41 AM »
I just got done with a lecture of his...He actually believes that the arabs can be loyal to a Jewish State?...What is this man smoking?...Does he actually believe that Israel can survive as a secular state?...He wants to  compensate the arabs of Gaza?..I would give them nothing but the ultimatum leave or die...If you don't believe me here is his lecture....Now I can see why this man has never caught on...For G-D sake will someone tell him that it is strenth that rules the Middle East!..and No there is no such thing as a christian Citizenship in The Jewish Land!...Got it..that is halacha..Don't like it tough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYVRCgMyIDs

Offline fibrogirl

  • Full JTFer
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2016, 04:18:06 AM »
I haven't got round to watching the lecture yet so what I am writing below might be irrelevant. I will try to watch it and come back.

Just 3 points come to mind:

1) I have been reading Moshe Feiglin articles for 10 years. He used to be extremely anti Arab. Then his son got injured in a car crash and he was forced to spend time in Sheba hospital Ramat Gan while he was being treated. His tone changed then. Point is that when you are in a top Israeli hospital for a long time, you eventually get treated by a good Arab nurse or doctor. In a war, when the chips are down, they know what side they are on, but Muslims in small numbers can be OK, and freed from the mob mentality of their culture, a few do chose our side or to live here peaceably like righteous gentiles. Maybe he is referring to them.

2) Didn't Rabbi Kahane himself have the idea of giving Arabs money to leave?
I have a fuzzy memory of Kahane using a Talmudic precept of not stealing the property of a non Jew who inhabited the land before you. (Correct me if I am wrong, my knowledge of Talmud is zilch.)
Arabs deserve the right to sell their property before they leave, if they do so peaceably, like my family did when leaving England for Israel.

3) Arabs can be loyal to the state of Israel - but it is rare. My Dad's boss was a Christian Arab whose grandfather fought on the Jewish side during the war of Independence.

Offline Yerusha

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2016, 07:20:34 PM »
The bottom line is that Feiglin, for all his plus points, like everyone born in the State of Israel is not too smart!

R.Yitzhak Ginsburgh explains the kabbalsitic reasons for this, being that the State's foundations are so fundamentally flawed that it can only be fixed by an external tikkun.

Which is why the Moshiach cannot have been born in the State of Israel.

The Malbim wrote in 1870 that he will be an American!

Offline Rashi

  • Full JTFer
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2016, 08:44:14 PM »
The bottom line is that Feiglin, for all his plus points, like everyone born in the State of Israel is not too smart!

R.Yitzhak Ginsburgh explains the kabbalsitic reasons for this, being that the State's foundations are so fundamentally flawed that it can only be fixed by an external tikkun.

Which is why the Moshiach cannot have been born in the State of Israel.

The Malbim wrote in 1870 that he will be an American!

What does this have to do with  Feiglin?..I get it you are waiting for a man-god to appear in the US...This is not a JEWISH CONCEPT!!..

Offline Rashi

  • Full JTFer
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2016, 08:55:25 PM »
I haven't got round to watching the lecture yet so what I am writing below might be irrelevant. I will try to watch it and come back.

Just 3 points come to mind:

1) I have been reading Moshe Feiglin articles for 10 years. He used to be extremely anti Arab. Then his son got injured in a car crash and he was forced to spend time in Sheba hospital Ramat Gan while he was being treated. His tone changed then. Point is that when you are in a top Israeli hospital for a long time, you eventually get treated by a good Arab nurse or doctor. In a war, when the chips are down, they know what side they are on, but Muslims in small numbers can be OK, and freed from the mob mentality of their culture, a few do chose our side or to live here peaceably like righteous gentiles. Maybe he is referring to them.

2) Didn't Rabbi Kahane himself have the idea of giving Arabs money to leave?
I have a fuzzy memory of Kahane using a Talmudic precept of not stealing the property of a non Jew who inhabited the land before you. (Correct me if I am wrong, my knowledge of Talmud is zilch.)
Arabs deserve the right to sell their property before they leave, if they do so peaceably, like my family did when leaving England for Israel.

3) Arabs can be loyal to the state of Israel - but it is rare. My Dad's boss was a Christian Arab whose grandfather fought on the Jewish side during the war of Independence.

It has been 25 years since the death of Rabbi Meir Kahane Z'L..I ask you a question...since 1990 have the arabs shown there love for Jews...No they have grown more violent...Arabs is  Gaza deserve compensation?..For what all the Jews that they have killed and all there supporters...They deserve nothing but death and destruction...Yes 25 years ago Rabbi Kahane did support compensation..If he was here today..I don't think he would...So Feglin got a mushy feeling for arabs 10 years ago...because he son was being  treated ina Jewish hospital and he met a nice arab...Let's see him take his son to some arab countries for medical treatment ...What a fool...

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2016, 10:14:36 AM »
The bottom line is that Feiglin, for all his plus points, like everyone born in the State of Israel is not too smart!

R.Yitzhak Ginsburgh explains the kabbalsitic reasons for this, being that the State's foundations are so fundamentally flawed that it can only be fixed by an external tikkun.

Which is why the Moshiach cannot have been born in the State of Israel.

The Malbim wrote in 1870 that he will be an American!

I see yerusha escaped from the mental hospital again

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2016, 01:13:28 AM »
If Israelis are dumb, and they invented the entire modern world, then everyone else must be a retard.

You Satmar Yershua?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2016, 12:43:43 PM »
I haven't got round to watching the lecture yet so what I am writing below might be irrelevant. I will try to watch it and come back.

Just 3 points come to mind:

1) I have been reading Moshe Feiglin articles for 10 years. He used to be extremely anti Arab. Then his son got injured in a car crash and he was forced to spend time in Sheba hospital Ramat Gan while he was being treated. His tone changed then. Point is that when you are in a top Israeli hospital for a long time, you eventually get treated by a good Arab nurse or doctor. In a war, when the chips are down, they know what side they are on, but Muslims in small numbers can be OK, and freed from the mob mentality of their culture, a few do chose our side or to live here peaceably like righteous gentiles. Maybe he is referring to them.

2) Didn't Rabbi Kahane himself have the idea of giving Arabs money to leave?
I have a fuzzy memory of Kahane using a Talmudic precept of not stealing the property of a non Jew who inhabited the land before you. (Correct me if I am wrong, my knowledge of Talmud is zilch.)
Arabs deserve the right to sell their property before they leave, if they do so peaceably, like my family did when leaving England for Israel.

3) Arabs can be loyal to the state of Israel - but it is rare. My Dad's boss was a Christian Arab whose grandfather fought on the Jewish side during the war of Independence.

I haven't seen any flipflopping by Feiglin regarding his position of the enemy, pre or post accident.  Prove me wrong with sources if I'm wrong.   He has always maintained they should be paid to leave and the vast majority of them, or all of them, will not pledge allegiance to a Jewish state.

Offline Yehudayaakov

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2016, 02:40:35 PM »
He writes articles featured on his sites that are  very good, critics of the demonic netania.hwo regime here.

Offline Chiram

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 339
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2016, 03:50:18 PM »
At least Feiglin has the guts to stand up against Shabak Obama and demand Jewish prayer rights on Har Habayit.

Offline ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4984
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2016, 02:01:35 AM »
If Israelis are dumb, and they invented the entire modern world, then everyone else must be a retard.

You Satmar Yershua?
I can vouch for him that he is definately not a Satmar!!!

Offline fibrogirl

  • Full JTFer
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2016, 05:24:58 PM »
I haven't seen any flipflopping by Feiglin regarding his position of the enemy, pre or post accident.  Prove me wrong with sources if I'm wrong.   He has always maintained they should be paid to leave and the vast majority of them, or all of them, will not pledge allegiance to a Jewish state.

He didn't flip flop. He just softened a little. For example this article would have not been written before the accident.
http://www.jewishisrael.org/moshe-feiglin-also-arabs-love-israel/

Offline fibrogirl

  • Full JTFer
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2016, 05:53:27 PM »
It has been 25 years since the death of Rabbi Meir Kahane Z'L..I ask you a question...since 1990 have the arabs shown there love for Jews...No they have grown more violent...Arabs is  Gaza deserve compensation?..For what all the Jews that they have killed and all there supporters...They deserve nothing but death and destruction...Yes 25 years ago Rabbi Kahane did support compensation..If he was here today..I don't think he would...So Feglin got a mushy feeling for arabs 10 years ago...because he son was being  treated ina Jewish hospital and he met a nice arab...Let's see him take his son to some arab countries for medical treatment

you are saying that it is unethical to pay someone to leave who has personally murdered a Jew or supported murder of Israelis. That's a good point.
 
No the Arabs in Gaza do not deserve compensation. However the buildings they live in are worth money along with the plumbing and infrastructure.  If Jews buy those buildings from them in order to get them to leave, and save the money and hassle of bombing the place and having to rebuild, then how is that bad?
I am sure there are some arabs who would be happy to leave peaceably if they had the economic means.
 It also fits in with the Talmudic idea of not stealing the plunder of the enemy that Kahane alluded to.
 
I think Kahane if he was alive today would still want to buy Arab property from those who would leave peaceably. But I don't know for sure

While Feiglin softened, he hasn't "mushy". He still wants Gaza and Judea annexed and is correct on Har Habayit.


 I listened to the audio. I didn't hear much softness about Arabs, but then I dozed a bit in the middle.
 It only got interesting near the end  when the students ask him about Beaurocracy in Israel and when he predicts 1 million new Olim arriving in Israel within 10 years.

Offline Yerusha

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2016, 07:59:06 PM »
R.Kahane himself stated that he didn't hate Arabs - but that he respected them! He said "the Arab has a sense of pride, of honor, a religion, an ideology, a belief system that they will not compromise, including never to make peace with the Jews in control of Israel.....which is why the Arab HAS to go!"

Offline fibrogirl

  • Full JTFer
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2016, 08:33:11 AM »
R.Kahane himself stated that he didn't hate Arabs - but that he respected them! He said "the Arab has a sense of pride, of honor, a religion, an ideology, a belief system that they will not compromise, including never to make peace with the Jews in control of Israel.....which is why the Arab HAS to go!"
True. I think Kahane respected the Arabs more than many leftists.

I never heard of the Malbin so I looked him up, but couldn't find a quote of him saying the Messiah will be American (!)  :)  But then quotes on the messiah are so contradictory in everything.

Offline Yerusha

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2016, 09:15:46 AM »

I never heard of the Malbin so I looked him up, but couldn't find a quote of him saying the Messiah will be American


That the Moshiach will be from America:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/jv3c9rg

הגמרא (סנהדרין צח) מספרת שמשיח נמצא ברומי, ובדורנו "פתחה של רומי", דהיינו המדינה הגדולה בעולם (גבורות ה' פרק י"ח),
 הוא באמריקה, שם יושב המלך המשיח ומצפה לגאולה. וכן מובא בשם המלבי"ם (רב"ב מקמניץ, קכ"ד) "שמשיח בהכרח שיבוא מאמריקה", וכן אמר בעל ה"דברי חיים" מצאנז (ספר ארצות החיים מכתב ו') "משיח יתגלה באמריקה



Offline Yerusha

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2016, 09:23:16 AM »
If Israelis are dumb, and they invented the entire modern world, then everyone else must be a retard.


"Stupidity in Israel reaches extraterrestrial proportions!" (Prof Paul Eidelberg)

"There is nothing more stupid, twisted and unreachable in the universe as the Israeli Sabra!" (R.Meir Kahane)

Offline Yerusha

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2016, 09:30:33 AM »
You Satmar Yershua?


Remember that two Satmars insited on carrying R.Kahane's bier at his funeral.

The Satmars, with a dash of of tweaking, are probably closer to Kahanism than most knitted kipot in Yesha: "Les extremes se touchent!"

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2016, 09:52:17 AM »

I never heard of the Malbin so I looked him up, but couldn't find a quote of him saying the Messiah will be American (!)  :)  But then quotes on the messiah are so contradictory in everything.

So what if he did say it?   Totally irrelevant to this.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2016, 09:53:31 AM »

Remember that two Satmars insited on carrying R.Kahane's bier at his funeral.

The Satmars, with a dash of of tweaking, are probably closer to Kahanism than most knitted kipot in Yesha: "Les extremes se touchent!"

Nope.  Not even close to true.

Satmars are close to extremism, but that in itself doesn't make them Kahanists or close to Kahanists.  Their VIEWS are insane and have nothing to do with Kahanism.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2016, 09:54:51 AM »
I can vouch for him that he is definately not a Satmar!!!

One doesn't need to be a Satmar chussid in order to share views with them.   The person wasn't asking if he dresses like them or goes to their shul.   He was pointing out similarity in views.

Offline Yehudayaakov

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2016, 11:35:54 AM »
"Stupidity in Israel reaches extraterrestrial proportions!" (Prof Paul Eidelberg)

"There is nothing more stupid, twisted and unreachable in the universe as the Israeli Sabra!" (R.Meir Kahane)

 vouch for it, there is nothing more truer than this statement.

Offline Yerusha

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2016, 01:25:17 PM »
So what if he did say it?   Totally irrelevant to this.


It means that the Moshiach cannot be a Sabra ie any Jew born in the State of Israel.

Our little non-Sabra Chaim has x100 Jewish common Torah sense & sechel than even the best rebbe, rabbi, rightist politician or Kahanist Sabra born in Israel.

Feiglin for all his plus points, poor fellow, was born in Israel.

As R.Ginsburgh in his book shows, the fatally flawed metaphysical and ideological foundations of the State of Israel mean that it is a given that anyone born in it, of whatever ilk, even though smart in some areas, is by defintion axiomatically overall an unreachable and unreconstructible idiot on a major level.

eg although BZK was raised in Israel, but being born like his father in the USA, making him not a Sabra, was thereby head and shoulders above even the best of his Sabra colleagues and progeny.

Where a soul and body was geographically born, and more so, conceived 9 months earlier, is what metaphysically counts!
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 01:41:31 PM by Yerusha »

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2016, 02:12:22 PM »
Here is a conversation which took place between Mike Miller (An American Kahanist who made Aliyah to Israel and collects and displays Kahane's videos, posters, etc etc.  I recommend that you search him on Facebook or YouTube at these things he has posted).



Me with Moshe Feiglin at Bar Ilan University after he spoke about several important topics concerning the future of Israel as a Jewish state and how his unique party, זהות - תנועה ישראלית יהודית Zehut - Israeli Jewish Movement, can impact and influence the nation as a whole. I took video of the entire event. It was a pleasure to hear some normalcy today, I've had it with lying and dishonest politicians both from the Israeli left and right.
I'm posting this here because he also personified the Jewish Idea.
Here is the conversation I had with Moshe Feiglin:
Me: "Moshe Feiglin, I voted in the past two elections for עוצמה לישראל and עוצמהיהודית, people are saying that I threw my vote in the toilet. What do you think?"
Feiglin: "Well, you did, but not because you voted your conscience, but think rationally for a second, even if they would have made it past the threshold and into the Knesset, what good could have possibly come out of it. Marzel would have remained in the opposition and not in the coalition and made knesset speeches from the podium. Any dummy can do that. Believe me, there are plenty of good things to watch on TV other than people making speeches in the Knesset. I can tell you first hand from being in מנהיגות יהודית in the Likud party. You would have been better off not having voted at all."
Me: "Why won't you join forces with Michael Ben Ari and Baruch Marzel?"
Feiglin: Because that's exactly what the kahanistim and Media want me to do and I'm not going to give into their demands. An alliance with them would be completely disastrous for my voters and my image. I would davka lose voices. I tried very hard to get that kahanist label off of me. Clearly, it's nothing to be ashamed of, but today is 2016 and not the 1980's. Therefore, if you want to get any change done in the Knesset, and be in some type of position to rule, you cannot afford that label. I want to remain a Jew and not a kahanist, for the people's and this country's sake.
Me: What is your opinion of עוצמה יהודית?
Feiglin: "Their mistake was in their campaign, the way they presented themselves. They had a terrible campaign and just wanted to throw the Arabs out, but there's so much more to Israel than just the Arab issue. They know how to rouse up a crowd, stir up noise, and get angry. But where does it get them? I tell you that not only are Arabs afraid of them, but also many other Jews as well. They wanted to get into the Knesset and merely be another MK, but unlike them, I don't intend on being just another MK, I intend on going for the whole ball game. I want to lead!" You'll see that when I get 10-12 seats in the next elections, Marzel and Ben-Ari will be begging to get on the bandwagon and join me.
Me: "In what way today, do you disagree with Rabbi Meir Kahane HY"D?"
Feiglin: I agree with most of what he says, except in a few areas. He may not have cared that the media labeled him a Arab-hating-fire-breathing-extremist, but the media labeled him as such. I think he appeared in the media as either too aggressive or too angry, and with the Israeli media today, one must be extremely careful about how he looks and what he says. He was trying to touch people's feelings and nerves, but today, you can't always say what's on your mind, and you don't always have to. In order to make a change in the knesset, you don't need to compromise on your principles but you need to do it wisely. You voted for Marzel, really, out of desperation because you saw no other alternative, well, guess what? I am that alternative!
I'm not trying to save the kahanistim. They have already dug their own grave. I'm trying to save the nation. I don't associate myself with any left-wing or right-wing party, not to secular parties and most certainly not to kippa sruga parties. I have nothing to do with either side. The problem is, is that the left has the ideology and the only thing the right-wing says today is "We aren't left." Which doesn't help us one iota! The right-wing still talks about Areas A, B, C, etc. and still hasn't severed the ties with the Oslo accords back in the 90's and that's the tragedy. That they still think in those terms, like occupiers!


Chaim response to this: "It's a little a disappointing to hear what Feiglin had to say. He had some good points and some bad points.  And unfortunately too soft spoken.  I know on the other hand, there is no alternative out there. However, it can improve our movement's situation which brings out the real conversation."


If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Is Moshe Feiglin weak?
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2016, 08:29:55 PM »

It means that the Moshiach cannot be a Sabra ie any Jew born in the State of Israel 

Lol really?  Because what Malbim said about mosciach is definitive?  What caused you to worship this rabbi as infallible?  Oh right because you like his answer.  But then you should follow every single detail of what he said and every halacha position in addition to personal opinions and random predictions like this one.  But obviously you don't.

You know how many rabbis have said something about Moshiach and turned out to be wrong?

Setting the above aside, and not even addressing the manner in which he made this prediction (it could have been off the cuff or simply meant as a compliment to American Jewry - did you know they asked him to be chief rabbi of America but he turned it down?  - or it could have been meant only conceptually), setting all that aside this whole subject is still completely irrelevant to the topic at hand: Moshe Feiglin and his approach to our enemies.

So irrelevant that it's mind-boggling you brought it up here at all.  Are you implying the only person worth supporting or voting for as a leader is the messiah?  So crazy it is funny despite being sad you think this way.

Quote

Feiglin for all his plus points, poor fellow, was born in Israel.



Again who cares?  Irrelevant point.

That you imply the only person who could do anything good or ever lead israel is messiah reflects your nutty satmar influences.  The type of paralyzed thinking that ensures nothing gets accomplished and problems are never addressed.   Whether  to support Feiglin and discussing his opinion has zero to do with Moshiach and is not even something to consider in general.  We believe Moshiach will come as a principle of faith and it has nothing to do with how we act.  We observe the Torah.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 10:15:54 PM by Kahane-Was-Right BT »