Black Savage Banging on a Bucket

[Kananga]

I'd go as far to say that it's more likely that a percussionist with classic training would have more appreciation of bucket drumming than your average spectator.  How is that dumbing down?

Playing bucket drums and playing the violin require two completely different levels of skill.

Bucket drumming is more like an atletic activity than a high musical art.

Why?  Because YOU say so??  It's only your own preference, and perhaps your own limitations to appreciate drumming, that you like violin more than drums.

For me, not only do I prefer drums to bowed string, but drumming and rhythms alone in music always resonate much more with me with melodic music void of any rhythmic accompaniment.    A certain music may be classified as rhythmic just because it's rhythmic components are more pronounced.  Rhythmic music exists among all tribes and all cultures.  The only thing that makes it "savage" are  these other factors you attribute to it that has NOTHING AT ALL to do with music.

[Nic Brookes]

I advise to never enter in a cultural discussion about music with Scriabin

[Kananga]

No worries.  It wouldn't be the first time I've gotten my butt kicked on a message board.

[Joe Schmo]

I'd go as far to say that it's more likely that a percussionist with classic training would have more appreciation of bucket drumming than your average spectator.  How is that dumbing down?

Playing bucket drums and playing the violin require two completely different levels of skill.

Bucket drumming is more like an athletic activity than a high musical art.

Why?  Because YOU say so??  It's only your own preference, and perhaps your own limitations to appreciate drumming, that you like violin more than drums.

For me, not only do I prefer drums to bowed string, but drumming and rhythms alone in music always resonate much more with me with melodic music void of any rhythmic accompaniment.    A certain music may be classified as rhythmic just because it's rhythmic components are more pronounced.  Rhythmic music exists among all tribes and all cultures.  The only thing that makes it "savage" are  these other factors you attribute to it that has NOTHING AT ALL to do with music.

I love rhythm.  Music wouldn't exist without it.

The fact of the matter is that rhythm is an aspect of violin playing...it is the totality of drumming.

I agree with you, rhythm IS important, but it isn't everything.  Beethoven himself said that the most important element in his compositions was the rhythm...and it shows. 

Still, there is more to Beethoven's incomparable music than just rhythm.

I don't understand your last sentence.

[Kananga]

This one?

"The only thing that makes IT "savage" are  these other factors you attribute to it that has NOTHING AT ALL to do with music."

IT in this case being the bucket drumming.  I argued before that the bucket itself is nothing more than a novelty, just as the Blue Men use the PVC pipe to make music or the example Erica gave.  The novelty of the instrument doesn't detract from the coordination and percision required to create it's different sounds and accents.  In the video you posted you can see the drummer manipulating the bucket with his feet and striking it in certain spots to create different tones.  I only get the impression from your remarks on this thread that "drumming", with no respect to any sort of artistry or discipline somehow equates to savagery. 

Now if you think I'm just blowing smoke up your donkey then consider the title of this thread.  There has been nothing written here about the moral character of this person drumming on the bucket.  Only by virtue of his color the case is being made here that drumming is primative and an expression of his savage nature.

[Lubab]

Yes. That's right. Blacks are assumed to be "savages" until they prove otherwise. The burden of proof is upon them because the vast majority behave like savages, are enemies of the Jewish people=enemies of G-d=evil (See the Bible) and therefore we can call them any names we please. If someone proves to me that they are a fine person-great, it doesn't apply to them. But it's a rare case.

Such a title is especially appropriate when by the person's dress we can see that they associate with and support that evil culture.

Now please someone come and tell me that the vast majority don't act like savages.

I live in a predominately black neighborhood in a predominately black building so I'm not just pulling this out of my rear end. I know this from first hand experience. "Savage" is a kind word for the way most of them act.

But we're getting off track. The tragedy here was not the bucket drummer himself but the reactions of the crowds and how we've gotten to this point.

[Ehud]

Yes. That's right. Blacks are assumed to be "savages" until they prove otherwise. The burden of proof is upon them because the vast majority behave like savages, are enemies of the Jewish people=enemies of G-d=evil (See the Bible) and therefore we can call them any names we please. If someone proves to me that they are a fine person-great, it doesn't apply to them. But it's a rare case.

Such a title is especially appropriate when by the person's dress we can see that they associate with and support that evil culture.

Now please someone come and tell me that the vast majority don't act like savages.

I live in a predominately black neighborhood in a predominately black building so I'm not just pulling this out of my rear end. I know this from first hand experience. "Savage" is a kind word for the way most of them act.

But we're getting off track. The tragedy here was not the bucket drummer himself but the reactions of the crowds and how we've gotten to this point.

You're absolutely right lubab.  It's good to see that there are still people who can differentiate between good and evil.

[Erica]

Why aren't you at least happy that this guy is a bucket banger instead of a 'gang banger'? This goes to show you that even at some black's lowest, even the smallest attempt at greatness can be looked past just because their 'talent' doesn't fit someone else's expectation.

He was dressed like a gang banger which tells me that at the very least he associates with and supports that evil culture. At the worst he actually participates in those criminal activities. Either way, someone like that has earned the the title "savage".

OMG, gang bangers don't 'waste their time' in subways playing on buckets. Gang bangers are often drug dealers who look down on street artists. Just because someone is dressed like an urban youth (or wearing gang clothes) dosen't mean they're a gang banger. Besides a gang banger would have knocked you in your head for not clapping for him...this homeless youth did not. And another thing, perhaps the clothes he was wearing were the only clothes he owned.

How can you argue with someone who doesn't read what you say? Did I say he was definitely a gangbanger? Or did I say that "at worst
he was, and at best he supports that evil culture by adopting their look? He was not a youth-he was in his mid twenties at least and in all those years he could've walked down to salvation army or goodwill and picked up some clothes that civilized people wear. I've done that, so can he. Instead he chose the baggy pants prisoner look. (That's where it comes from you know, because they take away prisoner's belts their pants are baggy).

You like to give black people the benefit of the doubt, and that's understandable (hopefully you do it for whites equally).

The problem is you believe in relativism, and that means that no matter how upside-down a situation is you can always say "well you're looking at it right side up, look at it up side down and you'll see another side of things".

That is true, in a sense, but you must also realize there is also objective reality, there is a good and an evil and by the same token there is quality music food wine etc. and low quality in this world.

If you ignore that you're only seeing half the picture. And a half truth is a whole lie.

Only being a relativist is very dangerous, because eventually you will come to sympathize with evil people (because hey "the way they were brought up-it's not considered evil". You are the case in point.

P.S. (see if you can respond to people without using "LOL" or "OMG" for a change. In my opinion it doesn't suit someone who is capable of making real arguments (sometimes) like yourself.


 

Which would you want to read "I BE >>>>" or OMG, an acronym for OH MY G_D... ? Talk to the ignorant friends you have here who can't type in English. Using ebonics to make a point about black people is pretty stupid in my opinion. At least the acronyms I use are actually a computer text language.

As far as me being a 'relativist' I'm sorry to disappoint you but I was wired that way. If I saw you walking down the street I wouldn't automatically think that by the way you dressed you were anything other than you are. A person. YOU aren't being objective at all. You're being a right fighter. Just because someone dosen't like or appreciate a peice of music,you call them uncultured. That's being judgmental because in REALITY you don't know WHAT that person knows.

[Erica]

I know they do, but doesn't that just prove my point.

That's like saying more people like Coca Cola than a 400 bottle dollar of wine and saying "you see, coca cola is no different from a fine cabarnet saveigne or whatever".

The reason you and the people who go to these types of shows don't appreciate classical music is because you never took a course called "Music appreciation" which teaches you how to understand and appreciate what's going on in a classical peice. It takes a little more work to appreciate it, but when you do it's a million times better. Do you see that?

Now if most of the world is content with low quality because they never took the time to learn to appreciate the real stuff it just goes to show how lazy and dumb downed we've all become. Doesn't it? What am I missing?

How do you know I never took Music Appreciation, or ANY music classes for that matter, lubab? LOL Did you go to school with me? When I was in high school, I was a soloist in our gospel choir and also competed in Classical Opera competitions with other schools while a member of our Girl's Chorus.. So I 'appreciate' music pretty well, thanks.

Low quality to you is a diamond in the rough to me. Do I HAVE to LOVE classical music because you love it? Let me change it around a little bit...What if I told  you that your taste in music is too closed-off and that I think that you're missing a lot from not enjoying music by my favorite band.>Earth Wind and Fire?

So I take it you have never taken a course which taught you how to understand what is going on in a classical peice. You know, a course that taught you how to find acsending and descending sequences, how to know a minuet when you see one and stuff like that.

You see, classical music for someone who's never studies it is like me reading a book in Chinese and saying "it's not really my thing". Yes classial music takes some study and hard word to appreciate. It's like understanding a foreign language. The tragedy is that soceity has been convinced that that is "lame" and primitive rap music is "cool" with all the culture of laziness, womanizing drug use and criminality that goes along with it.

Yes we do have a serious problem on our hands.

Actually I studied classical music in high school. I was actually a classical soloist in my choir as a teen and liked it...but didn't love it. However, I am not a classical connosueir but I know a little bit about it, enough to know that its not my style. I never said that classical music was lame, nor that rap music was cool (which you only said because I'm black). I just simply said that people don't have to have the same music taste you have.

You're angry with black men as a whole because of what you've seen on the movies and heard on the radio from rap music in passing. Be angry with the men who use hip hop as an excuse to berate women, womanize, and with boys who are lazy. Don't down the entire race because you feel that all of black America and its culture has contributed to the unappreciation of classical music. These are no longer the days of the powdered wig and Beethoven's 5th echoing in the background of castles full of aristocrats. Tastes evolved...and I'll have you know that hip hop music isn't the only music that sends a negative message to today's youth. Death Metal does also. Marilyn Manson, Rob Zombie and anyone screaming about separatism and evil not withstanding.

[Lubab]

As far as me being a 'relativist' I'm sorry to disappoint you but I was wired that way. If I saw you walking down the street I wouldn't automatically think that by the way you dressed you were anything other than you are. A person. YOU aren't being objective at all. You're being a right fighter. Just because someone dosen't like or appreciate a peice of music,you call them uncultured. That's being judgmental because in REALITY you don't know WHAT that person knows.

It's not true Erica. You make assumptions about people all the time that belie your relatvistic stance.
For instance when you go to the bank and there's someone behind the coutner wearing a suit and tie behind the glass, I bet you assume he's a cashier.

When you go to a doctor and you see someone with a long white coat I bet you assume he's the doctor and you act accordingly.

When you go to a Cubs game and you see someone playing on the field with a cubs uniform you assume he's a real member of the team not just an imposter.

If you were in a store and a guy came in and he was wearing nylon over his face you'd assume he's about to rob the place and would act accordingly (I hope).

You see such generalizations are the most natural and normal things in the world. This actually IS wired into you whether you realize it or not. It's part of our survival mechanisms as humans.

It's sad to say it, but when you see a black male in New York dressed that way it's a very safe bet that they are jealous and hateful of Jews white, it's even a pretty safe bet that they have a criminal record. It's a 97% safe bet that the person supports Nazi leaders such as Reggie Jackson. It's about as predicatable as the examples given above.

But somehow when it comes to people dressing in a way that imitates prisoners criminals and evil rappers all the sudden you want to just see "a person". All the sudden you refuse to draw the conclusions that any sane normal person would.


Well sell crazy somewhere else Erica, we're all stocked up here. 

[Erica]

As far as me being a 'relativist' I'm sorry to disappoint you but I was wired that way. If I saw you walking down the street I wouldn't automatically think that by the way you dressed you were anything other than you are. A person. YOU aren't being objective at all. You're being a right fighter. Just because someone dosen't like or appreciate a peice of music,you call them uncultured. That's being judgmental because in REALITY you don't know WHAT that person knows.

It's not true Erica. You make assumptions about people all the time that belie your relatvistic stance.
For instance when you go to the bank and there's someone behind the coutner wearing a suit and tie behind the glass, I bet you assume he's a cashier.

When you go to a doctor and you see someone with a long white coat I bet you assume he's the doctor and you act accordingly.

When you go to a Cubs game and you see someone playing on the field with a cubs uniform you assume he's a real member of the team not just an imposter.

If you were in a store and a guy came in and he was wearing nylon over his face you'd assume he's about to rob the place and would act accordingly (I hope).

You see such generalizations are the most natural and normal things in the world. This actually IS wired into you whether you realize it or not. It's part of our survival mechanisms as humans.

But somehow when it comes to people dressing in a way that imitates prisoners criminals and evil rappers all the sudden you want to just see "a person". All the sudden you refuse to draw the conclusions that any sane normal person would.

Well sell crazy somewhere else Erica, we're all stocked up here. 

So I'm not sane or normal because I wouldnt' automatically assume that someone who is banging a bucket in the subway is a gang banger because he's wearing urban clothing? LOL I know men who wear business suits to work, but on their down time, they wear basketball jerseys, shorts and fancy tennis shoes. You would be that person looking at him as though he's a gangbanger (maybe) because his clothes and style 'dicate' to be gang banger fare.

Yes, I'll agree that we assume a lot of things on a daily basis but lots of people assume the worst of some people before they assume the best about them.

In what way do you think black men should dress...from head to toe? Just curious.

Also, if you saw a black man in a suit, would you jump to the conclusion that he's a banker?

[Lubab]

You don't even need to look at dress. You could just look at the fact that they have black skin and can assume with 97% accuracy that they support Jew haters for president.

[Lubab]

You could also look at skin color and assume with over 50% accuracy that a black male adult has a criminal record.

[Lubab]

These are painful facts. But they are facts. And we can't go around wearing blinders.

[Erica]

You don't even need to look at dress. You could just look at the fact that they have black skin and can assume with 97% accuracy that they support Jew haters for president.

I'm laughing. (Apparently me typing "LOL" is offensive.) But since we're on the subject, do you think that everyone who votes against someone you'd vote for are Jew Haters?

[Erica]

You could also look at skin color and assume with over 50% accuracy that a black male adult has a criminal record.

50% accuracy, huh? Wow. You're good.

[Erica]

These are painful facts. But they are facts. And we can't go around wearing blinders.

Actually those aren't quite facts...those are observations, which aren't always dead on. I'd like to see you line up every black male in America (those who aren't in Jail) and tell which have good jobs and are supporting their families and those who are losers. That would be fun.

[jdl4ever]

Last week something funny happened to me.  I saw 2 blacks arguing and one said to the other "you're so ugly and so black that you look like a freaking ape."  When I got home, I couldn't stop laughing.   

[newman]

These are painful facts. But they are facts. And we can't go around wearing blinders.

Actually those aren't quite facts...those are observations, which aren't always dead on. I'd like to see you line up every black male in America (those who aren't in Jail) and tell which have good jobs and are supporting their families and those who are losers. That would be fun.

Actually, they ARE facts.

"Blacks are just 13 percent of the population but they commit more than half the muggings and murders in the country. Hispanics commit violent crimes at about three times the white rate.

 The proportion of blacks and Hispanics in an area is the single best indicator of how dangerous it is. The racial mix is a much better predictor of crime rates than poverty, unemployment, and dropout rates combined. "

http://www.vdare.com/taylor/050913_crime.htm

[Erica]

These are painful facts. But they are facts. And we can't go around wearing blinders.

Actually those aren't quite facts...those are observations, which aren't always dead on. I'd like to see you line up every black male in America (those who aren't in Jail) and tell which have good jobs and are supporting their families and those who are losers. That would be fun.

Actually, they ARE facts.

"Blacks are just 13 percent of the population but they commit more than half the muggings and murders in the country. Hispanics commit violent crimes at about three times the white rate.

 The proportion of blacks and Hispanics in an area is the single best indicator of how dangerous it is. The racial mix is a much better predictor of crime rates than poverty, unemployment, and dropout rates combined. "

http://www.vdare.com/taylor/050913_crime.htm

I'm talking about observation,  newman, not statistics. Do you leave your house everyday to stare at blacks and wonder whose store they knocked over last? The statistics are spot on..no doubt. But looking at someone and how they're dressed doesn't necessarily mean they are bad, right off.

[newman]

I'm talking about observation,  newman, not statistics. Do you leave your house everyday to stare at blacks and wonder whose store they knocked over last? The statistics are spot on..no doubt. But looking at someone and how they're dressed doesn't necessarily mean they are bad, right off.

All we have are ODDS, based on statistics because NOBODY can conduct 30 minute interviews with all 300,000,000 Americans!!

Thus, we go with our most educated guess based on sight-alone.

If statistics and emperical evidence tell us that (for example) black males are 5 times more criminally inclined than white males we avoid black males dressed in the garb of criminals, gangstas or street bums!!!

Don't you get it?

Nobody on earth can get to know every person on a city street!! They go on sight and make a split second decision.....it's called survival. If they avoid a black man in gangsta clothing and it turns out he was harmless....so what? No harm done. If they don't avoid him and he's dangerous (and the statistics show that he probably is ), they're in strife.

Why wouldn't any sane person err on the side of caution?

[Erica]

I'm talking about observation,  newman, not statistics. Do you leave your house everyday to stare at blacks and wonder whose store they knocked over last? The statistics are spot on..no doubt. But looking at someone and how they're dressed doesn't necessarily mean they are bad, right off.

All we have are ODDS, based on statistics because NOBODY can conduct 30 minute interviews with all 300,000,000 Americans!!

Thus, we go with our most educated guess based on sight-alone.

If statistics and emperical evidence tell us that (for example) black males are 5 times more criminally inclined than white males we avoid black males dressed in the garb of criminals, gangstas or street bums!!!

Don't you get it?

Nobody on earth can get to know every person on a city street!! They go on sight and make a split second decision.....it's called survival. If they avoid a black man in gangsta clothing and it turns out he was harmless....so what? No harm done. If they don't avoid him and he's dangerous (and the statistics show that he probably is ), they're in strife.

Why wouldn't any sane person err on the side of caution?

I guess I'm naturally wary of any man coming toward me staring. Not just black, and not just in 'gangsta' clothing. There are bank robbers who choose to wear business suits while they're robbing everyone in the place.

I talk about ME and my life experiences here because I want to erase any doubt in anyone's mind here that I'm a bad person because I'm black. Its a defense mechanism I've over-used here but its hard to be black and be judged in this forum. I've been called everything from a 'n', to a crack whore here and I'm still feeling the sting of that everytime I comment to anyone here. When you respond in ebonics, you further insult me because you're making it seem as though I'm ignorant and would use that language toward you. I'm sensitive in that way.

But I digress...

[newman]

I'm talking about observation,  newman, not statistics. Do you leave your house everyday to stare at blacks and wonder whose store they knocked over last? The statistics are spot on..no doubt. But looking at someone and how they're dressed doesn't necessarily mean they are bad, right off.

All we have are ODDS, based on statistics because NOBODY can conduct 30 minute interviews with all 300,000,000 Americans!!

Thus, we go with our most educated guess based on sight-alone.

If statistics and emperical evidence tell us that (for example) black males are 5 times more criminally inclined than white males we avoid black males dressed in the garb of criminals, gangstas or street bums!!!

Don't you get it?

Nobody on earth can get to know every person on a city street!! They go on sight and make a split second decision.....it's called survival. If they avoid a black man in gangsta clothing and it turns out he was harmless....so what? No harm done. If they don't avoid him and he's dangerous (and the statistics show that he probably is ), they're in strife.

Why wouldn't any sane person err on the side of caution?

I guess I'm naturally wary of any man coming toward me staring. Not just black, and not just in 'gangsta' clothing. There are bank robbers who choose to wear business suits while they're robbing everyone in the place.

I talk about ME and my life experiences here because I want to erase any doubt in anyone's mind here that I'm a bad person because I'm black. Its a defense mechanism I've over-used here but its hard to be black and be judged in this forum. I've been called everything from a 'n', to a crack whore here and I'm still feeling the sting of that everytime I comment to anyone here. When you respond in ebonics, you further insult me because you're making it seem as though I'm ignorant and would use that language toward you. I'm sensitive in that way.

But I digress...

Then stop "over-using" it. We KNOW you're NOT a welfare mamma, a mugger, a crack ho, a gangsta etc.

Why spend all this time defending yourself when you're not being attacked?

People make posts about  gentiles being anti-semitic for 2,000 years. Do I carry on responding with......

"But I'M not"

"Not ALL gentiles do that"

"You don't know if a gentile is an anti-semite without knowing him"

.............?

No I don't, because it's STUPID and wastes everbody's time on the forum. If I was to assume evey comment about anti-semitic european/ christian gentiles was about ME, I'd spend every second defending myself UNNECCESSARILY.

Look at the posts we make about self-hating Jews.......... The jews on the forum don't assume we mean them.

[Erica]

I'm talking about observation,  newman, not statistics. Do you leave your house everyday to stare at blacks and wonder whose store they knocked over last? The statistics are spot on..no doubt. But looking at someone and how they're dressed doesn't necessarily mean they are bad, right off.

All we have are ODDS, based on statistics because NOBODY can conduct 30 minute interviews with all 300,000,000 Americans!!

Thus, we go with our most educated guess based on sight-alone.

If statistics and emperical evidence tell us that (for example) black males are 5 times more criminally inclined than white males we avoid black males dressed in the garb of criminals, gangstas or street bums!!!

Don't you get it?

Nobody on earth can get to know every person on a city street!! They go on sight and make a split second decision.....it's called survival. If they avoid a black man in gangsta clothing and it turns out he was harmless....so what? No harm done. If they don't avoid him and he's dangerous (and the statistics show that he probably is ), they're in strife.

Why wouldn't any sane person err on the side of caution?

I guess I'm naturally wary of any man coming toward me staring. Not just black, and not just in 'gangsta' clothing. There are bank robbers who choose to wear business suits while they're robbing everyone in the place.

I talk about ME and my life experiences here because I want to erase any doubt in anyone's mind here that I'm a bad person because I'm black. Its a defense mechanism I've over-used here but its hard to be black and be judged in this forum. I've been called everything from a 'n', to a crack whore here and I'm still feeling the sting of that everytime I comment to anyone here. When you respond in ebonics, you further insult me because you're making it seem as though I'm ignorant and would use that language toward you. I'm sensitive in that way.

But I digress...

Then stop "over-using" it. We KNOW you're NOT a welfare mamma, a mugger, a crack ho, a gangsta etc.

Why spend all this time defending yourself when you're not being attacked?

People make posts about  gentiles being anti-semitic for 2,000 years. Do I carry on responding with......

"But I'M not"

"Not ALL gentiles do that"

"You don't know if a gentile is an anti-semite without knowing him"

.............?

No I don't, because it's STUPID and wastes everbody's time on the forum. If I was to assume evey comment about anti-semitic european/ christian gentiles was about ME, I'd spend every second defending myself UNNECCESSARILY.

Look at the posts we make about self-hating Jews.......... The jews on the forum don't assume we mean them.

When you talk about blacks you're dont' specify which group of blacks you're referring to...you just say blacks. If you'd say "Evil, lazy blacks" I woudn't assume you're talking about me. I know some evil, lazy, white man- blaming blacks' I'd assume you're talking about them. Also when you tell me "YOUR" people as if the bad blacks belong to me, you're making it seem as though I'd associate with bad blacks.

Yes, I've read the self-hating Jews comments, and the Jews here wouldn't think you're talking about them because you're using words to describe certain Jews. How do you think they'd react if you'd typed in "Jews are bleeding heart liberals." ?

[newman]

When you talk about blacks you're dont' specify which group of blacks you're referring to...you just say blacks. If you'd say "Evil, lazy blacks" I woudn't assume you're talking about me. I know some evil, lazy, white man- blaming blacks' I'd assume you're talking about them. Also when you tell me "YOUR" people as if the bad blacks belong to me, you're making it seem as though I'd associate with bad blacks.

Yes, I've read the self-hating Jews comments, and the Jews here wouldn't think you're talking about them because you're using words to describe certain Jews. How do you think they'd react if you'd typed in "Jews are bleeding heart liberals." ?

Because we're not talking about the same high percentages as there are with blacks.