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Many blacks support murderer of white woman on Charlotte train (JTF video)
Hrvatski Noahid:
--- Quote from: Chaim Ben Pesach on September 11, 2025, 06:50:55 PM ---בס''ד
Hrvatski, there are different categories of murder in the Torah. While the Torah calls all of these categories "retzach" (murder), the punishment is drastically different. Just as there are different categories of murder in modern Western law - first degree murder, second degree murder and so on. Intentional murder is bemezid in Torah Judaism and there is no escape from the punishment of the death penalty. Accidental or unintentional murder is beshogeg, such as careless driving or allowing someone to work in dangerous conditions. Only unintentional murderers can escape to designated cities of refuge (arei miklat) to escape revenge killing from the victim's relatives.
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In the Torah law for Gentiles, there are four levels of intention for causing a person's death. There is a fundamental difference between a person's liability to punishment in a court of law, and his power to cleanse his soul from liability in the eyes of God. God certainly accepts sincere repentance regardless of the murderer's intention.
Chaim Ben Pesach:
--- Quote from: Hrvatski Noahid on September 11, 2025, 07:19:58 PM ---In the Torah law for Gentiles, there are four levels of intention for causing a person's death. There is a fundamental difference between a person's liability to punishment in a court of law, and his power to cleanse his soul from liability in the eyes of God. God certainly accepts sincere repentance regardless of the murderer's intention.
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בס''ד
There is a difference between repentance (tshuva in Hebrew) and atonement (kipur). An intentional murderer cannot escape his punishment by saying he's sorry. There are many examples of this in both the Torah and the Tanach. For example, after the sin of the spies who did not want to enter the land of Israel, the Jews repented but G-d refused to cancel their punishment - they were forced to die in the desert and could not enter the land. Even Moses and Aaron were not allowed to enter the land when their punishment was not forgiven despite sincere repentance. In the Bible, in the book of Kings, the Jews of Judah repented after the sins of King Menasheh, but G-d refused to cancel their punishment of exile and destruction of the First Temple because Menasheh spilled a lot of innocent blood. There are numerous other examples. Repentance is not atonement.
Hrvatski Noahid:
--- Quote from: Chaim Ben Pesach on September 11, 2025, 11:40:34 PM ---בס''ד
There is a difference between repentance (tshuva in Hebrew) and atonement (kipur). An intentional murderer cannot escape his punishment by saying he's sorry. There are many examples of this in both the Torah and the Tanach. For example, after the sin of the spies who did not want to enter the land of Israel, the Jews repented but G-d refused to cancel their punishment - they were forced to die in the desert and could not enter the land. Even Moses and Aaron were not allowed to enter the land when their punishment was not forgiven despite sincere repentance. In the Bible, in the book of Kings, the Jews of Judah repented after the sins of King Menasheh, but G-d refused to cancel their punishment of exile and destruction of the First Temple because Menasheh spilled a lot of innocent blood. There are numerous other examples. Repentance is not atonement.
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You are conflating Jewish law and Noahide law. Jewish law is more restrictive. Rightly, because a nation of priests must have a more restrictive standard. If Gentiles repent sincerely, God forgives them for their sins and does not punish them for the past. We find this exemplified by the city of Nineveh.
Chaim Ben Pesach:
--- Quote from: Hrvatski Noahid on September 12, 2025, 12:02:59 AM ---You are conflating Jewish law and Noahide law. Jewish law is more restrictive. Rightly, because a nation of priests must have a more restrictive standard. If Gentiles repent sincerely, God forgives them for their sins and does not punish them for the past. We find this exemplified by the city of Nineveh.
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בס''ד
G-d forbid! You mean if Hitler repented for murdering 6 million Jews, the holocaust would go unpunished? And Hitler would have eternal life, G-d forbid? In Christianity, that is how it works because Christianity is a man-made religion with man-made laws. But in Judaism, when Jew or Gentile does wrong, they must try to correct the harm that they have done. Murder cannot be corrected - you can't bring the murder victim back to life. Therefore murder must be punished.
As far as Nineveh is concerned, the Assyrians did even sincerely repent. They "repented" only because they were afraid that G-d would destroy them. Jonah the prophet tried to escape from delivering the prophesy to them because he knew that they would return to their evil ways and destroy Israel (which is what happened). That's why Jonah boarded a ship to avoid prophesizing to them. The ship hit very turbulent waters while Jonah was on it, but when Jonah was thrown overboard, the waters immediately calmed down. The terrified Assyrians on the ship reported this when they got to Nineveh and so all of the Assyrians were petrified of what would happen if they ignored Jonah's warnings. G-d was willing to let the Assyrians escape immediate destruction because He wanted to use them to punish Israel. But in the end, the Assyrians were destroyed permanently.
Hrvatski Noahid:
--- Quote from: Chaim Ben Pesach on September 12, 2025, 01:49:13 AM ---בס''ד
Murder cannot be corrected - you can't bring the murder victim back to life. Therefore murder must be punished.
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I disagree, Chaim. It is Christianity which teaches that sincere repentance is not accepted and you need Jesus. You can ask the victim's soul for forgiveness and you can bring the victim back to life with reincarnation and resurrection.
Cain was an intentional murderer. But God came to him and said to him, "if you will improve yourself, you will be forgiven" (Genesis 4:7). As an eternal lesson for all generations, God instructed Cain about the ability to repent, which is in the hands of every person: to repent and return to God at any time one desires and makes the decision to do so, and God will forgive him.
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