JTF.ORG Forum
Guns and Self-Defense => Guns/Firearms => Topic started by: White Israelite on March 31, 2008, 04:43:56 PM
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So I feel this may be a controversial topic for some people. I would like to know what Jewish and Gentile views on people owning Nazi surplus weapons are?
at gun shows, there are many replica KAR98's floating around, sometimes with swastika intact. I think that replicas are rather stupid and have no value, however there are some authentic pieces of Nazi surplus weapons like hitler youth daggers, lugers, p-38, kar98, MP44, and other rare weapons with matching serials and the swastika is part of what makes these weapons so high valued. These type of items may attract a variety of people from world war II buffs, collectors, regular shooters, or perhaps even a number of neo nazis.
I've asked a few Jewish gun owners their view on it, one in particular felt very offended by the topic and stated "no Jew in his right mind would EVER own a Nazi weapon!"
while I may take a bit more conservative view on the topic of firearms with swastika intact, I view them purely from a historical viewpoint, I view a weapon as a inanimate object that has no loyalty but the person behind the firearm. This is my personal aspect and I feel the swastika being a symbol has no relevance to how the weapon operates or the people that used that symbol for their political motives. I feel that the only person who profits from the purchase of these weapons are the dealers or the shops who sell them, we have to remember many of these weapons were confiscated during the war and kept in US armory for years packed in cosmoline and finally sold back to the public.
To put a bit more understanding behind the selection of the poll, here are the options.
Option 1: It's just a peice of history, who cares?
You selection this, it means you have no objection to people owning a firearm of Nazi origin with swastika intact. You feel weapons have no loyalty and that a person should be able to own the firearm in it's original status without modification.
Option 2: Owning Nazi firearms are fine, but the swastika on the weapons is not and should be removed
If you vote for option 2, you support the idea of owning Nazi surplus weapons but not with the swastika intact, basically a politically correct version of the firearm. The Israelis imported Czech KAR98's and grounded off the swastika and stamped a star of david over where the swastika originally was.
Option 3: Dude are you freakin insane?! Nobody should own a weapon made by the Nazis swastika or not!
You are completely against the idea of owning any weapon made in Germany during the Nazi era, you feel it is symbolic to what the Nazis did to the Jews and the weapons used against Jews and should be completely destroyed along with Nazi history as if it never existed. Some feel very emotional over the idea these weapons were used to kill Jews and allies and feel it is better if the weapons did not exist.
Option 4: Jews shouldn't own any weapons with swastikas on them, but it's ok if others do
You feel that it is acceptable that Nazi surplus weapons are floating around and don't care if others purchase them but feel that Jews should not own them because of the swastika or who was behind them
Option 5: Other
State your reason
I have a similar approach with commie weapons, the communists killed millions of people yet we are not removing the sickle and star from weapons, we simply purchase the weapons and use them.
There are people that refuse to use foreign weapons and will only use American weapons. If the SHTF tomorrow, I am curious if that would be a wise move skipping on using a enemies weapon because of patriotic pride? Use what you can to survive, that's my view on it.
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i collect antique things i have An America Bayonet from 1918 and a paratrooper knife from WW2 i also have a High ranking Soviet officers Navel Dagger and an American Trench knife from 1918 as well
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i collect antique things i have An America Bayonet from 1918 and a paratrooper knife from WW2 i also have a High ranking Soviet officers Navel Dagger and an American Trench knife from 1918 as well
I don't own any Nazi marked weapons myself, but I have shot a friends Mauser KAR98 and it had a US armory stamp on the barrel. It also had the eagle with the swastika intact and it was in really good condition. It was used in Stalingrad, there was a bunch of scratches near the stock, looked like the soldier who was carrying it ended up getting shot and landed on the stock or something in some rubble.
It was 8mm, very accurate rifle, smooth action and well built.
I had this discussion with a Jewish friend of mine about shooting the rifle and he felt very...emotional about the idea that I was shooting a weapon made in Nazi Germany and had said "How do you know that weapon wasn't used to kill fellow Jews in a concentration camp?" I responded saying "The 3rd reich is dead, this weapon may have once been used for evil, but now it is being used for good, who's hands do you prefer it in?" he didn't like the response, but I have the understanding that we have used many designs from the Nazis to advance and perfect our lifestyle. We used experimentation results from the Japanese and allowed their generals to escape without prosecution for medical advances, we used Wernher von Braun for use of rockets to compete with the Soviets, our helmets derive from the older German Nazi helmets, and the MG42 is still considered one of the best machine gun designs ever made. It may not seem morally right, but I guess this is not really a debate about survival and using what you can, rather Jewish and Gentile view of ownership of such weapons and how they are marked?
I like to collect weapons because I feel I am owning a piece of history, others may not feel the same and that is why I would like to hear their responses and why they feel that way.
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It's a silly issue to get worked up about.
Jews in Israel had over 1 million ex-nazi Mauser rifles WITH nazi proof marks that they used to establish their state and defend themselves from both British AND arab nazis. If ever there was proof that a weapon has no malevelence or morallity in and of itself , this is it.
They did deface the nazi markings later, but this was symbolic. It was to 'ideologically purify' the rifles. Given that hitler's ovens were barely cold at the time, I can understand it.
A nazi proof-marked, soviet stamped or British Empire stamped rifle has no ideology. Any weapon is only as good or bad as it's user.
I have no poblem with righteous Americans using former nazi or communist weapons to defend their liberty.
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It's a silly issue to get worked up about.
Jews in Israel had over 1 million ex-nazi Mauser rifles WITH nazi proof marks that they used to establish their state and defend themselves from both British AND arab nazis. If ever there was proof that a weapon has no malevelence or morallity in and of itself , this is it.
They did deface the nazi markings later, but this was symbolic. It was to 'ideologically purify' the rifles. Given that hitler's ovens were barely cold at the time, I can understand it.
A nazi proof-marked, soviet stamped or British Empire stamped rifle has no ideology. Any weapon is only as good or bad as it's user.
I have no poblem with righteous Americans using former nazi or communist weapons to defend their liberty.
I agree, just wondering what others stances are on this. Use what works.
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Many years ago I did a lot I mean a lot of fire arm buying trading and swapping this went on for better than 15 years I would say about 300 or so guns past through my hands and I had 2 98's wit the whole 9 yards on them (I got them from 2 separate deals about 5 years apart) I could care less what they had on them I kept one for about a year and shot several hundred 8 X 57 rounds through it and sold it top a guy at a range I was at for a good profit and the other went in on a trade I would not go out of my way to get one but would not pass on one for that reason
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Many years ago I did a lot I mean a lot of fire arm buying trading and swapping this went on for better than 15 years I would say about 300 or so guns past through my hands and I had 2 98's wit the whole 9 yards on them (I got them from 2 separate deals about 5 years apart) I could care less what they had on them I kept one for about a year and shot several hundred 8 X 57 rounds through it and sold it top a guy at a range I was at for a good profit and the other went in on a trade I would not go out of my way to get one but would not pass on one for that reason
Pretty much how I feel about the issue as well, i'm not going to go out of my way to have firearms or knives with a swastika on it, but i'm not exactly going to start having convulsions and panicking because I see a swastika on a weapon. I'm definitely not going to buy replica garbage either, I seen a lot of neo nazi skinhead punks that think it's cool to buy a cheap 5 dollar knife because it has a swastika on it. Heck, think of the pro's, if I buy authentic weapons with a swastika on it, less for the Nazis to buy. Rather I own it than some neo nazi punk ;)
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If you find genuine nazi-era collectables at a steal price, buy them. If you can get two 98s for $180 ea and two nazi bayonets for $45 ea and then SELL them to nazi-worshipping idiots and double your money.......more's the better! Take your $450 profit and buy a Serb SKS and 1,000 rounds of ammo that'll cost you NOTHING.
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If you find genuine nazi-era collectables at a steal price, buy them. If you can get two 98s for $180 ea and two nazi bayonets for $45 ea and then SELL them to nazi-worshipping idiots and double your money.......more's the better! Take your $450 profit and buy a Serb SKS and 1,000 rounds of ammo that'll cost you NOTHING.
Serbian SKS? Is that the same as the Yugoslavian SKS? I thought they weren't chromelined?
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If you find genuine nazi-era collectables at a steal price, buy them. If you can get two 98s for $180 ea and two nazi bayonets for $45 ea and then SELL them to nazi-worshipping idiots and double your money.......more's the better! Take your $450 profit and buy a Serb SKS and 1,000 rounds of ammo that'll cost you NOTHING.
Serbian SKS? Is that the same as the Yugoslavian SKS? I thought they weren't chromelined?
They are the same. They're not chrome lined, but they gobble up new steel case Russian ammo that's not corrosive.
Secondly, the crome lined examples havn't been imported for a while and most are pinned barrel models.
Yugo 59/66s are threaded barrel models and the best built. They are available NOW unissued.
As for barrel life...............a new Yugo SKS has a 10,000+ round life. A chrome lined SKS will have 20,000 rounds barrel life MINUS the 10,000 rounds the last dude has alread put through it. So it's the same thing, really.
Remember to that the Yugo 59/66s have C&R status with the BATF, Chinese Norincos don't.
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Jewish people used former nazi weapons to retake Israel, fair enough.
Personally I dont see a reason why a Jewish person should own a gun that closely associated with
nazis.
Yes the world has seen the use of technology from the nazis, for example the Germans make excellent
cars. Main reason for that is because they have very good information on human physiology, insight they gained at the expense of Jewish souls.
That is the main reason why I wont buy a German automobile, unless it comes with 2 dead nazis in the trunk.
In my opinion, anything from the nazi regime is a relic and I would leave it that way.
I hold by this same reasoning as I do for a Jewish person from russia who still eats pork.
We had to do it strictly for survival!! Unfortunately some forget to teach their children that pork IS strictly forbidden otherwise. No ifs ands or buts.
The Jewish people who retook Israel needed weapons and guns so they took whatever was at hand.
I see no need to indulge in nazi relics, I would much rather appreciate the benefits the free world has allowed me to savor.
So your question might really be, at what point do we get to 'enjoy' the technological benefits gained from the 3rd rach. Well I would say it is much like certain fruits and vegentables or animal by products that would be considered traif. Vitamins for example may have traces of bug or something, but it has been processed and refined by that point that any elements of traif are moot.
So for me the time is not right. But anything with a swastika the time will never be right.
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It comes down to buying the best tool at the best price. Germany hasn't made a cent out of WW2-issue Mauser rifles since 1940. Any profits on the resale of surplus rifles today goes to the American dealer who sells it. Given that the Kar98k Mauser is still the best turn-bolt rifle in the world and is perfectly suited to militia/homeland security/ community defense/ survival, if one can be obtained for a good price righteous people should buy one. Ascribing morals, character or good/evil to an inanimate piece of steel & wood is the sort of illogical, insane activity liberals enguage in.
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It comes down to buying the best tool at the best price. Germany hasn't made a cent out of WW2-issue Mauser rifles since 1940. Any profits on the resale of surplus rifles today goes to the American dealer who sells it. Given that the Kar98k Mauser is still the best turn-bolt rifle in the world and is perfectly suited to militia/homeland security/ community defense/ survival, if one can be obtained for a good price righteous people should buy one. Ascribing morals, character or good/evil to an inanimate piece of steel & wood is the sort of illogical, insane activity liberals enguage in.
I suppose, but to restate what I said earlier.
If it came down to it and someone handed me a WW2-issue Mauser and said 'thats all we have' then I would use that just the same.
Again, just my opinion.
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It comes down to buying the best tool at the best price. Germany hasn't made a cent out of WW2-issue Mauser rifles since 1940. Any profits on the resale of surplus rifles today goes to the American dealer who sells it. Given that the Kar98k Mauser is still the best turn-bolt rifle in the world and is perfectly suited to militia/homeland security/ community defense/ survival, if one can be obtained for a good price righteous people should buy one. Ascribing morals, character or good/evil to an inanimate piece of steel & wood is the sort of illogical, insane activity liberals enguage in.
I suppose, but to restate what I said earlier.
If it came down to it and someone handed me a WW2-issue Mauser and said 'thats all we have' then I would use that just the same.
Again, just my opinion.
Russian/Soviet Mosin Nagant rifles were used by both Tzarists AND Communists to terrify and pogromise Jews.
British .303 SMLE rifles kept Jews out of Israel, shot Irgun & Hagganah members and were used by Jordan's arab legion to attack Jews.
Most popular sporting arms have been used by the KKK in anti-semitic attacks at one time or another.
If you attatch the behaviour & character of the users to the rifle, there wouldn't be a shotgun or rifle a Jew could own.
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It comes down to buying the best tool at the best price. Germany hasn't made a cent out of WW2-issue Mauser rifles since 1940. Any profits on the resale of surplus rifles today goes to the American dealer who sells it. Given that the Kar98k Mauser is still the best turn-bolt rifle in the world and is perfectly suited to militia/homeland security/ community defense/ survival, if one can be obtained for a good price righteous people should buy one. Ascribing morals, character or good/evil to an inanimate piece of steel & wood is the sort of illogical, insane activity liberals enguage in.
I suppose, but to restate what I said earlier.
If it came down to it and someone handed me a WW2-issue Mauser and said 'thats all we have' then I would use that just the same.
Again, just my opinion.
Russian/Soviet Mosin Nagant rifles were used by both Tzarists AND Communists to terrify and pogromise Jews.
British .303 SMLE rifles kept Jews out of Israel, shot Irgun & Hagganah members and were used by Jordan's arab legion to attack Jews.
Most popular sporting arms have been used by the KKK in anti-semitic attacks at one time or another.
If you attatch the behaviour & character of the users to the rifle, there wouldn't be a shotgun or rifle a Jew could own.
The difference to me is that German WW2 issue arms was from a dictatorship where annihilation Jewish people was a government policy. The swastika is a symbol of death.
You can call me crazy and you wouldnt be completely wrong.
Again, just my opinion.
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The swastika is infact a pre-rhunic Indian symbol of eternal life! It was hijacked & misused by the nazis just as the KKK and Spanish church did with the cross.
A nazi symbol placed on a rifle (that is now wielded by a righteous man in a noble cause) 70 years ago is irrelevant.
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The swastika is infact a pre-rhunic Indian symbol of eternal life! It was hijacked & misused by the nazis just as the KKK and Spanish church did with the cross.
A nazi symbol placed on a rifle (that is now wielded by a righteous man in a noble cause) 70 years ago is irrelevant.
I am aware of the origins of the swastika and the direction it should be spinning if it were a legitimate symbol of its origins. But the reincarnation of the swastika was hijacked by a cultist who took the meaning of mass slaughter to a whole new level.
Like I said earlier, if someone handed me a German WW2 weapon and said this is all that is available to defend yourself and fight for your cause I would use it just the same as if someone handed me an M16 or an AK47.
Do you want me to change my opinion if other Jewish people should own it? I dont think they should, unless it comes with the severed hands of two nazi soldiers who used them.
My opinion.
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I do want to relay something else.
I've driven a Porsche 911, 928 and 914 and I've driven big rear wheel drive GM's.
I own a 1994 Chevy Caprice and I'll tell you this, put a set of gas Bilstein shocks, heavy duty springs and fat Firestone Indys and it handles remarkably well for a nearly 2 ton automobile.
Will it compete out right with a Porsche on the track? Maybe. I've seen the results of SCCA Solo races with a Porsche Boxster and a 1996 Chevy Impala and the Impala won! Why? Because once a car is set up it much of the deciding factor amounts to drivers skill.
I drove a 928 cross country and it certainly felt better, I was doing 120 in Arizona and it felt like 65.
In the Caprice 90 feels like 90, I could do 120 but its not an assuring 120.
The Caprice can be setup to do 120, in Police form they could do 140.
So I have a choice, my choice is an American rear wheel drive 4 door sedan.
Admitidly I dont have enough experience with guns to know the difference in feel so I translating my experience from another topic.
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The swastika is infact a pre-rhunic Indian symbol of eternal life! It was hijacked & misused by the nazis just as the KKK and Spanish church did with the cross.
A nazi symbol placed on a rifle (that is now wielded by a righteous man in a noble cause) 70 years ago is irrelevant.
Should my opinion stop someone from deciding what to own? Why should it?
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The swastika is infact a pre-rhunic Indian symbol of eternal life! It was hijacked & misused by the nazis just as the KKK and Spanish church did with the cross.
A nazi symbol placed on a rifle (that is now wielded by a righteous man in a noble cause) 70 years ago is irrelevant.
Should my opinion stop someone from deciding what to own? Why should it?
I think what Newmans trying to say is that there have been many atrocities committed against Jews with various different weapons from different countries but yet we don't look at the British flag (remember what they did to Jews in the mandate before Israel was created as a state), the Soviet flag, or even the American flag like we do the swastika. In many countries of Europe (Germany, France for example), the swastika is banned, it hasn't changed anything, banning a symbol or a flag doesn't stop people from being evil.
I view the swastika as simply a symbol, i'm not worried about what type of relic or symbol is on my gun, but rather the people behind it. I don't think there would be much difference in the lethality of the weapon regardless if it had a swastika or not.
Also many American companies supported what happened to the millions of people murdered in Germany as well, IBM for example sold the machines for keeping track of the prisoners, FORD was a well known anti-semite, many others as well.
Owning a Nazi surplus weapon isn't going to put any money in Germanys pockets. Not anymore at least.
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Just a weopon but then again if I were offered mohams sword i would melt it down for ammo and fire it from my m16a2 at muzzies.
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The swastika is infact a pre-rhunic Indian symbol of eternal life! It was hijacked & misused by the nazis just as the KKK and Spanish church did with the cross.
A nazi symbol placed on a rifle (that is now wielded by a righteous man in a noble cause) 70 years ago is irrelevant.
Should my opinion stop someone from deciding what to own? Why should it?
I think what Newmans trying to say is that there have been many atrocities committed against Jews with various different weapons from different countries but yet we don't look at the British flag (remember what they did to Jews in the mandate before Israel was created as a state), the Soviet flag, or even the American flag like we do the swastika. In many countries of Europe (Germany, France for example), the swastika is banned, it hasn't changed anything, banning a symbol or a flag doesn't stop people from being evil.
I view the swastika as simply a symbol, i'm not worried about what type of relic or symbol is on my gun, but rather the people behind it. I don't think there would be much difference in the lethality of the weapon regardless if it had a swastika or not.
Also many American companies supported what happened to the millions of people murdered in Germany as well, IBM for example sold the machines for keeping track of the prisoners, FORD was a well known anti-semite, many others as well.
Owning a Nazi surplus weapon isn't going to put any money in Germanys pockets. Not anymore at least.
I understand what you are saying, and am aware of the players and their deeds or lack thereof for the most part.
I had this conversation with my friend who is a Bal Teshuva, he is also very familiar with weapons.
So I posed this question to him and he said he would take a Mauser in a minute, I told him it would be
a rifle and he said what kind because yes he would. His reason is along the same lines as you guys pointed
out here. My friend said that my relatives who killed nazis during WW2 would have taken whatever they
had to to dispatch the ameleks. I whole heartedly agreed with him and said that I would have done the exact same thing. Which is exactly what I have been saying the whole time, if it came down to it and the only
thing available yes I would use one of those weapons.
However, having a weapon or anything with a swastika emblazed on it or anything Germany
of that era is not something I would chose to own. For the same reason I do not own a copy of that
surpeme nazi-facsist's biography. It stems from a cult, a twisted interpretation
of so many things the source of that era in that country was from a person with a diseased mind.
The items created are tainted, if someone else wants to own them then why not, just like the pyramids still stand.
Was IBM, various banks and nations corraborators to a recognizable extent? Yes.
So what sets them apart? Again, it was a national government policy to exterminate Jewish people,
it was from a government that was intent on world domination based on subjugation to a twisted
notion of nationalism. It was an ideology that disposed of national sovereignty and replaced it with xenophobia. No one from my family would expect me to bring anything bearing those markings
nor anything from that era no matter how well engineered it may be. My grandfather would own something from America, russia or china before he wuold buy anything German and that is just fine with me.
It is a relic of the past and I understand very well the origin and the reasons why I shouldnt be averse to
owning such a relic. However, to me these arguments fall in to the same category in why smokers smoke and why they feel its ok. Ok, just because they smoke doesnt mean I want to, nor does it mean I want to smell it. Yes this is different because this does not permeate into the clothing of the people around you thereby leaving the person on the receiving end an unappealing scent.
But if I were to go with that argument, if I were to show up at a firing range with such a weapon how long before white nationalists take notice? How long before I am put into a situation having to explain to a white nationalist why I own such a weapon? Why would I want to engage in conversation with a white nationalist?
But from a spiritual aspect as a Jewish person am I allowed to have something in my house that displays my belief in a different religion? I am pretty sure I do not.
So I understand full well why you guys would chose to own, however I am being accused of giving an inatimite object a personality. My experience with inatimite objects is that it sometimes comes down to feel, like driving a Porsche and driving a Chevrolet Caprice can sometimes come down to feel. The performance is sometimes nothing more than illusion once the suspensions are set up comparably.
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I do want to point out that the swastika, much like the hammer and sickle do not make me feel a sense of helpless agitation. The agitation is an irritant like a cocaroach that must be crushed.
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As others have said Jews used ex-Nazi rifles to win the war of Independence.
It's not the weapon their using, but the cause they're fighting for I care about! ;)
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As others have said Jews used ex-Nazi rifles to win the war of Independence.
It's not the weapon their using, but the cause they're fighting for I care about! ;)
If this post is aimed at me then I would ask you to reread all of my posts in this thread.
You are saying what I have been saying minus the reason why I would not chose to own a weapon
of that era.
I'm starting to wonder if I am being mocked.
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As others have said Jews used ex-Nazi rifles to win the war of Independence.
It's not the weapon their using, but the cause they're fighting for I care about! ;)
If this post is aimed at me then I would ask you to reread all of my posts in this thread.
You are saying what I have been saying minus the reason why I would not chose to own a weapon
of that era.
I'm starting to wonder if I am being mocked.
I wasn't attempting to mock you in any way, shape, or form.
To be honest, I actually didn't read your previous posts on this thread.
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I am 3/4 American Indian, and as was mentioned earlier in this thread the swastika was used by many of the tribes for more than a thousand years before Hitler got a hold of it. In 1945, native craftsmen held a meeting and voted unanimously to discontinue the use of that symbol because of its use in Nazi Germany. I agree with them, personally if I owned such a weapon, I would remove the symbol and replace it something different.
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I am 3/4 American Indian, and as was mentioned earlier in this thread the swastika was used by many of the tribes for more than a thousand years before Hitler got a hold of it. In 1945, native craftsmen held a meeting and voted unanimously to discontinue the use of that symbol because of its use in Nazi Germany. I agree with them, personally if I owned such a weapon, I would remove the symbol and replace it something different.
Defacing a collectable rifle of original marks lowers it's value by half.
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Defacing a collectable rifle of original marks lowers it's value by half.
That is true. But then, I'm not a collector and prefer to keep guns for more practical reasons.
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If a person wants to own them fine. It's his or her choice. However, me personally I am a gun person; NRA Life Member.
But that nazi crap gives me the creeps. I realize it does have collectible possibilities. And for those willing to invest "go for it."
For me I will pass on it. However give me a good MG42 yeah, I could get into that. Have to admit I still have a P-08 Luger my father brought home from WW2. No war stories to go with it. My cousin still has the kraut helmet.
Dad kept the Luger and gave the helmet to my cousin, he was the oldest kid at the time in the family.
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I have nazi marked stuff that was brought back by my family from WWII. To me seeing the Nazi eagle is a reminder of what a rogue nation can do if left unchecked. It's a reminder of why we need to control the arabs, and why appeasement never works.
My K98 has the Eagles ground off since it is an import. It is a fine weapon of good construction, but in reality it is just a weapon. Where I cross the line is the K98's bearing the marks of camp construction. I will never pay money for anything built by the hands of enslaved Jewish people; to me that is the same as accepting the enslavement, and is completely and utterly disrespectful. As for the regular K98's, it's not the weapon, but the manner in which it is utilized, and the measure of the man that is using it.
If I were Jewish, I would still own it, but I would certainly grind the eagles off, and I'd probably have the star stamped on it in defiance. Your own partisan K98 of sorts.
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One thing to consider, Mercedes-Benz, Krupp, BMW, and Porsche all built machines for the Nazis. How do you feel about owning these?
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I collect a lot of artifacts. I have a coouple of Nazi stamped rifles, SS and KAPO armbands, patches, a copy of Mein Kampf from 1939. I don't glorify them, I consider them just that, inanimate artifacts. In the hands of evil people they were horrible tools and weapons. I also have a sailor's cap from the SS Liberty in which 34 sailors died when fired upon by Israeli forces in 1967. It's an artifact. Does this make sense?
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I collect a lot of artifacts. I have a coouple of Nazi stamped rifles, SS and KAPO armbands, patches, a copy of Mein Kampf from 1939. I don't glorify them, I consider them just that, inanimate artifacts. In the hands of evil people they were horrible tools and weapons. I also have a sailor's cap from the SS Liberty in which 34 sailors died when fired upon by Israeli forces in 1967. It's an artifact. Does this make sense?
I have a WW2 Trench knife Real not fake though I have WW1 as well
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i collect antique things i have An America Bayonet from 1918 and a paratrooper knife from WW2 i also have a High ranking Soviet officers Navel Dagger and an American Trench knife from 1918 as well
I don't own any Nazi marked weapons myself, but I have shot a friends Mauser KAR98 and it had a US armory stamp on the barrel. It also had the eagle with the swastika intact and it was in really good condition. It was used in Stalingrad, there was a bunch of scratches near the stock, looked like the soldier who was carrying it ended up getting shot and landed on the stock or something in some rubble.
It was 8mm, very accurate rifle, smooth action and well built.
I had this discussion with a Jewish friend of mine about shooting the rifle and he felt very...emotional about the idea that I was shooting a weapon made in Nazi Germany and had said "How do you know that weapon wasn't used to kill fellow Jews in a concentration camp?" I responded saying "The 3rd reich is dead, this weapon may have once been used for evil, but now it is being used for good, who's hands do you prefer it in?" he didn't like the response, but I have the understanding that we have used many designs from the Nazis to advance and perfect our lifestyle. We used experimentation results from the Japanese and allowed their generals to escape without prosecution for medical advances, we used Wernher von Braun for use of rockets to compete with the Soviets, our helmets derive from the older German Nazi helmets, and the MG42 is still considered one of the best machine gun designs ever made. It may not seem morally right, but I guess this is not really a debate about survival and using what you can, rather Jewish and Gentile view of ownership of such weapons and how they are marked?
I like to collect weapons because I feel I am owning a piece of history, others may not feel the same and that is why I would like to hear their responses and why they feel that way.
I have a 22 G. SemiAutomatic. I can shoot straight if I dont have to shoot too far.......
I also have a 13th century sword. It is heavy..it is SCARY looking.
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One thing to consider, Mercedes-Benz, Krupp, BMW, and Porsche all built machines for the Nazis. How do you feel about owning these?
How about owning an IBM-machine?! Or a Ford?
They all supported Hitler.
Even Bush' grandfather supported adolf.
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I have choosen the second answer.
I really don't care who made the weapon. The only important thing is the function.
But I would remove the Swastika with an angle grinder. It is not righteous to have a Swastika on your property.
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I went down to the pawn shop a few days ago and saw a Mauser Kar98 for 240 dollars with a US armory stamp on it, it looks like a number of the rifles were captured by US and Russians, the wood was slightly damaged (looked like it had been dropped or the Nazi soldier was shot and landed on the stock of the rifle). It has the eagle with the swastika on the receiver.
I know that a lot of US soldiers took these rifles home as trophies, there are also a number of KAR98's with the swastika etched off or completely removed, I seen a few Serbian copies. I don't think I could deface a rifle because it is a piece of history, and is symbolic of me using the enemies gun. I think if we were in a situation where we were fighting against the Nazis and we picked up a Nazi weapon, we would not worry about removing a symbol but using the weapon to fight against the enemy.
However defacing/removing a symbol is not uncommon or unheard of either, it's strange in a way that people do not feel the same way about the Communist sickle/hammer as they do about the swastika. Many AK47's/SKS from communist countries bear the star with the sickle/hammer and are not defaced.
I think as long as it is for historical purposes and what not, it is fine, but not for Germany to start putting new weapons out with the swastika, that would be stupid.
You know the Japanese, before they were captured or would kill themselves, on the Arisaka rifle, they had a emblem of the "mum" (the imperial flower symbol), and the rifle was considered property of the emperor, before they were captured, they would take a file and try to destroy or deface the symbol as it was considered dishonorable for the Americans to have possession of the emperors property, these are highly valued war trophies today and even the Arisakas with the mum intact are highly valued compared to those that have been defaced. in 50 years, these weapons will be very hard to find.
But anyways, from a perspective, it is true that Adolf Hitler loved the KAR98 and highly despised the STG44, at least at first. The KAR98 while a great rifle, perhaps one of the best bolt action rifles in history, I think US had a large advantage by equipping soldiers with the M1 Carbine and M1 Garand being semi automatic. KAR98 probably made a better sniper rifle. The STG44 was developed in secret without Hitlers knowledge and he was not satisfied with it at first and by the time the Nazis were equipped with it, was already too late to make much of a difference. STG44's are pretty hard to find in the US although I have seen them appear in Africa in VERY small numbers, I wonder how they ended up in Africa anyways? I'd think finding ammo for it would be pretty hard.
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I went down to the pawn shop a few days ago and saw a Mauser Kar98 for 240 dollars with a US armory stamp on it, it looks like a number of the rifles were captured by US and Russians, the wood was slightly damaged (looked like it had been dropped or the Nazi soldier was shot and landed on the stock of the rifle). It has the eagle with the swastika on the receiver.
I know that a lot of US soldiers took these rifles home as trophies, there are also a number of KAR98's with the swastika etched off or completely removed, I seen a few Serbian copies. I don't think I could deface a rifle because it is a piece of history, and is symbolic of me using the enemies gun. I think if we were in a situation where we were fighting against the Nazis and we picked up a Nazi weapon, we would not worry about removing a symbol but using the weapon to fight against the enemy.
However defacing/removing a symbol is not uncommon or unheard of either, it's strange in a way that people do not feel the same way about the Communist sickle/hammer as they do about the swastika. Many AK47's/SKS from communist countries bear the star with the sickle/hammer and are not defaced.
I think as long as it is for historical purposes and what not, it is fine, but not for Germany to start putting new weapons out with the swastika, that would be stupid.
You know the Japanese, before they were captured or would kill themselves, on the Arisaka rifle, they had a emblem of the "mum" (the imperial flower symbol), and the rifle was considered property of the emperor, before they were captured, they would take a file and try to destroy or deface the symbol as it was considered dishonorable for the Americans to have possession of the emperors property, these are highly valued war trophies today and even the Arisakas with the mum intact are highly valued compared to those that have been defaced. in 50 years, these weapons will be very hard to find.
I agree with you i own a couple of items from that period with the swastika and others with the sickle&hammer i would never deface them for one they lose there value and they are apart of history
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I went down to the pawn shop a few days ago and saw a Mauser Kar98 for 240 dollars with a US armory stamp on it, it looks like a number of the rifles were captured by US and Russians, the wood was slightly damaged (looked like it had been dropped or the Nazi soldier was shot and landed on the stock of the rifle). It has the eagle with the swastika on the receiver.
I know that a lot of US soldiers took these rifles home as trophies, there are also a number of KAR98's with the swastika etched off or completely removed, I seen a few Serbian copies. I don't think I could deface a rifle because it is a piece of history, and is symbolic of me using the enemies gun. I think if we were in a situation where we were fighting against the Nazis and we picked up a Nazi weapon, we would not worry about removing a symbol but using the weapon to fight against the enemy.
However defacing/removing a symbol is not uncommon or unheard of either, it's strange in a way that people do not feel the same way about the Communist sickle/hammer as they do about the swastika. Many AK47's/SKS from communist countries bear the star with the sickle/hammer and are not defaced.
I think as long as it is for historical purposes and what not, it is fine, but not for Germany to start putting new weapons out with the swastika, that would be stupid.
You know the Japanese, before they were captured or would kill themselves, on the Arisaka rifle, they had a emblem of the "mum" (the imperial flower symbol), and the rifle was considered property of the emperor, before they were captured, they would take a file and try to destroy or deface the symbol as it was considered dishonorable for the Americans to have possession of the emperors property, these are highly valued war trophies today and even the Arisakas with the mum intact are highly valued compared to those that have been defaced. in 50 years, these weapons will be very hard to find.
I agree with you i own a couple of items from that period with the swastika and others with the sickle&hammer i would never deface them for one they lose there value and they are apart of history
Right, I know that many people will feel very emotional however regardless if it's a piece of history or a reproduction/replica. I do not have any respect for reproductions or replicas because they are not originals and they are made to appeal to neo nazis, however something like an original SS knife or Hitlers Youth is considered valuable to some war relic collectors. But at the same time, this is very disturbing to many Jews (and I can feel sympathy as well being Jewish) that Nazi relics have value or are highly sought after. I'm not sure I understand that myself, I am not particularly attracted to Nazi relic, but rather anything in regards to World War II. If I can find British Enfield rifles, the M1 Garand, MG42, helmets, anything, then I will collect it because I find history very fascinating.
If one of our grandfathers had fought in the war against the Nazis, and they brought back a rifle to pass down to you or grandchildren, I wonder how the grandfather would feel if his children were to deface the rifle even if the symbol is evil?
I think the swastika in this case is nothing more but a symbol frozen in time.
It cannot be disputed that the KAR98 is a very fine made weapon, there are many versions not made just in Germany, but Belgium, Czech, and few other versions. I think Israelis had their own versions too that were rechambered to 7.62x51
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I went down to the pawn shop a few days ago and saw a Mauser Kar98 for 240 dollars with a US armory stamp on it, it looks like a number of the rifles were captured by US and Russians, the wood was slightly damaged (looked like it had been dropped or the Nazi soldier was shot and landed on the stock of the rifle). It has the eagle with the swastika on the receiver.
I know that a lot of US soldiers took these rifles home as trophies, there are also a number of KAR98's with the swastika etched off or completely removed, I seen a few Serbian copies. I don't think I could deface a rifle because it is a piece of history, and is symbolic of me using the enemies gun. I think if we were in a situation where we were fighting against the Nazis and we picked up a Nazi weapon, we would not worry about removing a symbol but using the weapon to fight against the enemy.
However defacing/removing a symbol is not uncommon or unheard of either, it's strange in a way that people do not feel the same way about the Communist sickle/hammer as they do about the swastika. Many AK47's/SKS from communist countries bear the star with the sickle/hammer and are not defaced.
I think as long as it is for historical purposes and what not, it is fine, but not for Germany to start putting new weapons out with the swastika, that would be stupid.
You know the Japanese, before they were captured or would kill themselves, on the Arisaka rifle, they had a emblem of the "mum" (the imperial flower symbol), and the rifle was considered property of the emperor, before they were captured, they would take a file and try to destroy or deface the symbol as it was considered dishonorable for the Americans to have possession of the emperors property, these are highly valued war trophies today and even the Arisakas with the mum intact are highly valued compared to those that have been defaced. in 50 years, these weapons will be very hard to find.
I agree with you i own a couple of items from that period with the swastika and others with the sickle&hammer i would never deface them for one they lose there value and they are apart of history
Right, I know that many people will feel very emotional however regardless if it's a piece of history or a reproduction/replica. I do not have any respect for reproductions or replicas because they are not originals and they are made to appeal to neo nazis, however something like an original SS knife or Hitlers Youth is considered valuable to some war relic collectors. But at the same time, this is very disturbing to many Jews (and I can feel sympathy as well being Jewish) that Nazi relics have value or are highly sought after. I'm not sure I understand that myself, I am not particularly attracted to Nazi relic, but rather anything in regards to World War II. If I can find British Enfield rifles, the M1 Garand, MG42, helmets, anything, then I will collect it because I find history very fascinating.
If one of our grandfathers had fought in the war against the Nazis, and they brought back a rifle to pass down to you or grandchildren, I wonder how the grandfather would feel if his children were to deface the rifle even if the symbol is evil?
I think the swastika in this case is nothing more but a symbol frozen in time.
It cannot be disputed that the KAR98 is a very fine made weapon, there are many versions not made just in Germany, but Belgium, Czech, and few other versions. I think Israelis had their own versions too that were rechambered to 7.62x51
All my items are all real i dont buy repos unless the item i want is very very very hard to find
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The 98K is very popular under hunters.
They sell old weapons today in Germany with a reduced magazine to three bullets because of the weapon law.
I think there is nothing wrong with this. Of course without swastika.
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I went down to the pawn shop a few days ago and saw a Mauser Kar98 for 240 dollars with a US armory stamp on it, it looks like a number of the rifles were captured by US and Russians, the wood was slightly damaged (looked like it had been dropped or the Nazi soldier was shot and landed on the stock of the rifle). It has the eagle with the swastika on the receiver.
I know that a lot of US soldiers took these rifles home as trophies, there are also a number of KAR98's with the swastika etched off or completely removed, I seen a few Serbian copies. I don't think I could deface a rifle because it is a piece of history, and is symbolic of me using the enemies gun. I think if we were in a situation where we were fighting against the Nazis and we picked up a Nazi weapon, we would not worry about removing a symbol but using the weapon to fight against the enemy.
However defacing/removing a symbol is not uncommon or unheard of either, it's strange in a way that people do not feel the same way about the Communist sickle/hammer as they do about the swastika. Many AK47's/SKS from communist countries bear the star with the sickle/hammer and are not defaced.
I think as long as it is for historical purposes and what not, it is fine, but not for Germany to start putting new weapons out with the swastika, that would be stupid.
You know the Japanese, before they were captured or would kill themselves, on the Arisaka rifle, they had a emblem of the "mum" (the imperial flower symbol), and the rifle was considered property of the emperor, before they were captured, they would take a file and try to destroy or deface the symbol as it was considered dishonorable for the Americans to have possession of the emperors property, these are highly valued war trophies today and even the Arisakas with the mum intact are highly valued compared to those that have been defaced. in 50 years, these weapons will be very hard to find.
I agree with you i own a couple of items from that period with the swastika and others with the sickle&hammer i would never deface them for one they lose there value and they are apart of history
Right, I know that many people will feel very emotional however regardless if it's a piece of history or a reproduction/replica. I do not have any respect for reproductions or replicas because they are not originals and they are made to appeal to neo nazis, however something like an original SS knife or Hitlers Youth is considered valuable to some war relic collectors. But at the same time, this is very disturbing to many Jews (and I can feel sympathy as well being Jewish) that Nazi relics have value or are highly sought after. I'm not sure I understand that myself, I am not particularly attracted to Nazi relic, but rather anything in regards to World War II. If I can find British Enfield rifles, the M1 Garand, MG42, helmets, anything, then I will collect it because I find history very fascinating.
If one of our grandfathers had fought in the war against the Nazis, and they brought back a rifle to pass down to you or grandchildren, I wonder how the grandfather would feel if his children were to deface the rifle even if the symbol is evil?
I think the swastika in this case is nothing more but a symbol frozen in time.
It cannot be disputed that the KAR98 is a very fine made weapon, there are many versions not made just in Germany, but Belgium, Czech, and few other versions. I think Israelis had their own versions too that were rechambered to 7.62x51
All my items are all real i dont buy repos unless the item i want is very very very hard to find
Can you list some of the items in your possession? I think I will buy this KAR98, I will have to try to get the wood fixed, but bore is very shiny! I would like to also collect Japanese weapons from World War II. If these weapons have lasted 70 years, then you know they are well made.
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I went down to the pawn shop a few days ago and saw a Mauser Kar98 for 240 dollars with a US armory stamp on it, it looks like a number of the rifles were captured by US and Russians, the wood was slightly damaged (looked like it had been dropped or the Nazi soldier was shot and landed on the stock of the rifle). It has the eagle with the swastika on the receiver.
I know that a lot of US soldiers took these rifles home as trophies, there are also a number of KAR98's with the swastika etched off or completely removed, I seen a few Serbian copies. I don't think I could deface a rifle because it is a piece of history, and is symbolic of me using the enemies gun. I think if we were in a situation where we were fighting against the Nazis and we picked up a Nazi weapon, we would not worry about removing a symbol but using the weapon to fight against the enemy.
However defacing/removing a symbol is not uncommon or unheard of either, it's strange in a way that people do not feel the same way about the Communist sickle/hammer as they do about the swastika. Many AK47's/SKS from communist countries bear the star with the sickle/hammer and are not defaced.
I think as long as it is for historical purposes and what not, it is fine, but not for Germany to start putting new weapons out with the swastika, that would be stupid.
You know the Japanese, before they were captured or would kill themselves, on the Arisaka rifle, they had a emblem of the "mum" (the imperial flower symbol), and the rifle was considered property of the emperor, before they were captured, they would take a file and try to destroy or deface the symbol as it was considered dishonorable for the Americans to have possession of the emperors property, these are highly valued war trophies today and even the Arisakas with the mum intact are highly valued compared to those that have been defaced. in 50 years, these weapons will be very hard to find.
I agree with you i own a couple of items from that period with the swastika and others with the sickle&hammer i would never deface them for one they lose there value and they are apart of history
Right, I know that many people will feel very emotional however regardless if it's a piece of history or a reproduction/replica. I do not have any respect for reproductions or replicas because they are not originals and they are made to appeal to neo nazis, however something like an original SS knife or Hitlers Youth is considered valuable to some war relic collectors. But at the same time, this is very disturbing to many Jews (and I can feel sympathy as well being Jewish) that Nazi relics have value or are highly sought after. I'm not sure I understand that myself, I am not particularly attracted to Nazi relic, but rather anything in regards to World War II. If I can find British Enfield rifles, the M1 Garand, MG42, helmets, anything, then I will collect it because I find history very fascinating.
If one of our grandfathers had fought in the war against the Nazis, and they brought back a rifle to pass down to you or grandchildren, I wonder how the grandfather would feel if his children were to deface the rifle even if the symbol is evil?
I think the swastika in this case is nothing more but a symbol frozen in time.
It cannot be disputed that the KAR98 is a very fine made weapon, there are many versions not made just in Germany, but Belgium, Czech, and few other versions. I think Israelis had their own versions too that were rechambered to 7.62x51
All my items are all real i dont buy repos unless the item i want is very very very hard to find
Can you list some of the items in your possession? I think I will buy this KAR98, I will have to try to get the wood fixed, but bore is very shiny! I would like to also collect Japanese weapons from World War II. If these weapons have lasted 70 years, then you know they are well made.
America Bayonet from 1918 and a paratrooper knife from WW2 i also have a High ranking Soviet officers Navel Dagger and an American Trench knife from 1918 a Hitler youth knife
a German SS Leader Dagger,WWII Luftwaffe B25 Dagger,WWII RAD Officer Dagger,WWII Third Reich dagger,Waffen SS Dagger,Diplomatic Dress Dagger ,German Stilleto Knife,
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I went down to the pawn shop a few days ago and saw a Mauser Kar98 for 240 dollars with a US armory stamp on it, it looks like a number of the rifles were captured by US and Russians, the wood was slightly damaged (looked like it had been dropped or the Nazi soldier was shot and landed on the stock of the rifle). It has the eagle with the swastika on the receiver.
I know that a lot of US soldiers took these rifles home as trophies, there are also a number of KAR98's with the swastika etched off or completely removed, I seen a few Serbian copies. I don't think I could deface a rifle because it is a piece of history, and is symbolic of me using the enemies gun. I think if we were in a situation where we were fighting against the Nazis and we picked up a Nazi weapon, we would not worry about removing a symbol but using the weapon to fight against the enemy.
However defacing/removing a symbol is not uncommon or unheard of either, it's strange in a way that people do not feel the same way about the Communist sickle/hammer as they do about the swastika. Many AK47's/SKS from communist countries bear the star with the sickle/hammer and are not defaced.
I think as long as it is for historical purposes and what not, it is fine, but not for Germany to start putting new weapons out with the swastika, that would be stupid.
You know the Japanese, before they were captured or would kill themselves, on the Arisaka rifle, they had a emblem of the "mum" (the imperial flower symbol), and the rifle was considered property of the emperor, before they were captured, they would take a file and try to destroy or deface the symbol as it was considered dishonorable for the Americans to have possession of the emperors property, these are highly valued war trophies today and even the Arisakas with the mum intact are highly valued compared to those that have been defaced. in 50 years, these weapons will be very hard to find.
I agree with you i own a couple of items from that period with the swastika and others with the sickle&hammer i would never deface them for one they lose there value and they are apart of history
Right, I know that many people will feel very emotional however regardless if it's a piece of history or a reproduction/replica. I do not have any respect for reproductions or replicas because they are not originals and they are made to appeal to neo nazis, however something like an original SS knife or Hitlers Youth is considered valuable to some war relic collectors. But at the same time, this is very disturbing to many Jews (and I can feel sympathy as well being Jewish) that Nazi relics have value or are highly sought after. I'm not sure I understand that myself, I am not particularly attracted to Nazi relic, but rather anything in regards to World War II. If I can find British Enfield rifles, the M1 Garand, MG42, helmets, anything, then I will collect it because I find history very fascinating.
If one of our grandfathers had fought in the war against the Nazis, and they brought back a rifle to pass down to you or grandchildren, I wonder how the grandfather would feel if his children were to deface the rifle even if the symbol is evil?
I think the swastika in this case is nothing more but a symbol frozen in time.
It cannot be disputed that the KAR98 is a very fine made weapon, there are many versions not made just in Germany, but Belgium, Czech, and few other versions. I think Israelis had their own versions too that were rechambered to 7.62x51
All my items are all real i dont buy repos unless the item i want is very very very hard to find
Can you list some of the items in your possession? I think I will buy this KAR98, I will have to try to get the wood fixed, but bore is very shiny! I would like to also collect Japanese weapons from World War II. If these weapons have lasted 70 years, then you know they are well made.
America Bayonet from 1918 and a paratrooper knife from WW2 i also have a High ranking Soviet officers Navel Dagger and an American Trench knife from 1918 a Hitler youth knife
a German SS Leader Dagger,WWII Luftwaffe B25 Dagger,WWII RAD Officer Dagger,WWII Third Reich dagger,Waffen SS Dagger,Diplomatic Dress Dagger ,German Stilleto Knife,
Very nice, I am a collector of IDF military relic. I have a few items but it is hard to find some of the things I am looking for, I don't know if Israelis ever produced knives for military so if I could find an authentic one, that would be nice. I would like to buy an original IMI Uzi (not afterban or Chinese norinco copy), already have helmet, uniform, and load bearing vest.
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i wish I had the sniper version of the Carabiner. I understand it is very accurate, more than the semi automatic guns like m-14.
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I collect a lot of artifacts. I have a coouple of Nazi stamped rifles, SS and KAPO armbands, patches, a copy of Mein Kampf from 1939. I don't glorify them, I consider them just that, inanimate artifacts. In the hands of evil people they were horrible tools and weapons. I also have a sailor's cap from the SS Liberty in which 34 sailors died when fired upon by Israeli forces in 1967. It's an artifact. Does this make sense?
a copy of Mein Kampf and SS armbands??? OK Im ok with the Nazi stamped stuff.. but I think Mein Kampf and SS armbands are a bit over the line.
History collectors often have Nazi artifacts. (arms, aircraft, naval, etc).. but when they are specific to the ideology... such as a Mein Kampf book... then thats just too evil.
The same goes with Islam. Owning a historical Koran is just too over the top.
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My Uncles both fought the Battle of the Bulge, and when returning home after the War brought back quite a few "souveniers"; including armbands, daggers, insignia, uniform patches of the eagle with a swastika held in its talons, etc... .
In that case I believe it was their right to possess the emblems of those they defeated.
Purchasing such weaponry today as "surplus goods" presents a most troubling dilemma, to say the very least.
I would have to vote that it would be best if all such items put on the open market today be rounded up and destroyed.
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If there are no records and artifacts from an event in history and the people that were originally there are rapidly dieing off; it makes it very easy for groups to make the claim that the event never happened or was greatly misrepresented.
I respectfully disagree that there is nothing wrong with owning historical artifacts. I don't worship them or support the ideology behind them, I simply see them as interesting bits of history.
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If there are no records and artifacts from an event in history and the people that were originally there are rapidly dieing off; it makes it very easy for groups to make the claim that the event never happened or was greatly misrepresented.
I respectfully disagree that there is nothing wrong with owning historical artifacts. I don't worship them or support the ideology behind them, I simply see them as interesting bits of history.
I agree with your statement.
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Ford BTW supported Stalin too, just as many of big US buinsess who worship only the money. I agree with Shamgar on principle but I woud never collect the items with evil or ocult signs like svastika or soviet star the pentagram. I had polish combat knife made in 1952 during the Stalin reign and bayonet of AKMS from my military service and german helmet but that's all.
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are u kidding me, what kind of back stabing jew would own anything with a swastika on it. the only thing a nazi knife is good for is killing a nazi. i mean seriously i will die a thousand deaths before i forgive germany let alone buy their nazi weapons. i would sooner fight with a amputated limb then a nazi weapon (over exageration of course ) seriously though i would nevr use the weapons nazis used on my grandparents uncles cousins, aunts and mother NEVER
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are u kidding me, what kind of back stabing jew would own anything with a swastika on it. the only thing a nazi knife is good for is killing a nazi. i mean seriously i will die a thousand deaths before i forgive germany let alone buy their nazi weapons. i would sooner fight with a amputated limb then a nazi weapon (over exageration of course ) seriously though i would nevr use the weapons nazis used on my grandparents uncles cousins, aunts and mother NEVER
Weapons have no loyalty, you willing to die unarmed if thats the only weapon available to you? Some of the finest weapons in the world are made in Europe.
By the way, the Ak47 developed in the Soviet Union is what the majority of the Arabs use to kill Israelis and American troops. You advocate banning the AK47 or that Jews shouldn't use AK's? Who's hands do you prefer the weapon in, the enemy or yours? A swastika on a weapon just means it's a war trophy, it's in your hands because the enemy has been defeated,
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a war trophy are u insane the swastika is a symbol of shame, it shows loyalty to every ss office, i was being feciscious when i said i would rather use a amputated limb then a nazi gun, but seriously i would prefer a dull knife to a sharpened nazi knife in a fight. btw i am fully aware of he fact muslims use ak47's on israelis, but that is because there was a surplus of weapons after the fall of the sovite union, and the russian government needed the money, i mean u realize that israel has produced uzi's and many originally israeli uzi's have all fallen into the wrong hands. anyways back to the other comment i realize some of the nicest weapons arouned are produced by europeans, but we are talking about nazi weapons, not european weapons, although the mg42 is still the second fastest weapon in the world after the american designed S.A.W
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a war trophy are u insane the swastika is a symbol of shame, it shows loyalty to every ss office, i was being feciscious when i said i would rather use a amputated limb then a nazi gun, but seriously i would prefer a dull knife to a sharpened nazi knife in a fight. btw i am fully aware of he fact muslims use ak47's on israelis, but that is because there was a surplus of weapons after the fall of the sovite union, and the russian government needed the money, i mean u realize that israel has produced uzi's and many originally israeli uzi's have all fallen into the wrong hands. anyways back to the other comment i realize some of the nicest weapons arouned are produced by europeans, but we are talking about nazi weapons, not european weapons, although the mg42 is still the second fastest weapon in the world after the american designed S.A.W
The point i'm making is that many of our soldiers brought back weapons after world war II. Many of these Arisakas from Japan, the KAR98's with swastika and other weapons were captured by US soldiers and displayed as war trophies of our victory. We did the same thing in Vietnam taking back SKS's and AK47's with the soviet star on the firearm. Also many of the weapons sold were not used on Jews but captured by Russia in Stalingrad. Germany does not profit at all from the sale of these weapons as they were captured and sold on the US surplus market. It's undeniable that the KAR98 is one of the finest produced bolt action rifles of all time.
You know that rocket technology, jet technology, and other technologies came from Nazi Germany that the US uses today? Should we no longer fly to space because it's based off Nazi technology? Be glad it is in American hands and not Nazis hands.
You know how many pogroms launched against the Jews in Europe? Should we destroy the pyramids in Europe? How about all Roman artifacts, all ak47's and SKS's? (the communists were brutal to Jews), you destroy history, you have no history to speak of.
In a way you are starting to sound like a gun control advocate similar to how the Brady Campaign thinks we should ban "assault weapons" because the first modern assault weapon was the Nazi STG44 storm rifle. Emotions have no place on the battlefield. Choose what works.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rG6OeVnoQrc
Kar98 top 10 rifle video.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kar98
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a war trophy are u insane the swastika is a symbol of shame, it shows loyalty to every ss office, i was being feciscious when i said i would rather use a amputated limb then a nazi gun, but seriously i would prefer a dull knife to a sharpened nazi knife in a fight. btw i am fully aware of he fact muslims use ak47's on israelis, but that is because there was a surplus of weapons after the fall of the sovite union, and the russian government needed the money, i mean u realize that israel has produced uzi's and many originally israeli uzi's have all fallen into the wrong hands. anyways back to the other comment i realize some of the nicest weapons arouned are produced by europeans, but we are talking about nazi weapons, not european weapons, although the mg42 is still the second fastest weapon in the world after the american designed S.A.W
The point i'm making is that many of our soldiers brought back weapons after world war II. Many of these Arisakas from Japan, the KAR98's with swastika and other weapons were captured by US soldiers and displayed as war trophies of our victory. We did the same thing in Vietnam taking back SKS's and AK47's with the soviet star on the firearm. Also many of the weapons sold were not used on Jews but captured by Russia in Stalingrad. Germany does not profit at all from the sale of these weapons as they were captured and sold on the US surplus market. It's undeniable that the KAR98 is one of the finest produced bolt action rifles of all time.
You know that rocket technology, jet technology, and other technologies came from Nazi Germany that the US uses today? Should we no longer fly to space because it's based off Nazi technology? Be glad it is in American hands and not Nazis hands.
In a way you are starting to sound like a gun control advocate similar to how the Brady Campaign thinks we should ban "assault weapons" because the first modern assault weapon was the Nazi STG44 storm rifle. Emotions have no place on the battlefield. Choose what works.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rG6OeVnoQrc
Kar98 top 10 rifle video.
I agree I own things from that time period and I hate those people.I have them as as a collection I own .They are apart of history
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Ok there are several ways you can tell if a rifle was used by SS (to kill Jews) or were made by Jewish workers in concentration camps. Usually there are codes and what not on the rifle that show.
This is the website where i'm buying my Kar98 and shows where it was used.
http://mauser.org/rifles/german_k98/index.htm
Normally if it has the Totenkopf (Death’s Head), then that means it was used in the concentration camps against the people there. If it wasn't, then it was likely captured in Stalingrad in Russia.
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i believe that if something can better man and is based off of nazi technology it should be used, i mean if we can learn about space or save lives with nazi technology (thats completly ironic btw) i mean i believe if the knowledge gained in dauchau on saving people from freezing water, can be used to resesitate soldiers or fishermen it should be used. i mean think of the princepal would u fly a nazi banner (i would burn it) because its a part of history. i mean its the same idea the weapons that were created by our jewish brethern to kill other jews, would u own one? they make better skrap metal than anything else. the only things that should be kept from the holocaust should be hung in musuems to show how sick the german bastards can be.
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i believe that if something can better man and is based off of nazi technology it should be used, i mean if we can learn about space or save lives with nazi technology (thats completly ironic btw) i mean i believe if the knowledge gained in dauchau on saving people from freezing water, can be used to resesitate soldiers or fishermen it should be used. i mean think of the princepal would u fly a nazi banner (i would burn it) because its a part of history. i mean its the same idea the weapons that were created by our jewish brethern to kill other jews, would u own one? they make better skrap metal than anything else. the only things that should be kept from the holocaust should be hung in musuems to show how sick the german bastards can be.
Theres a difference, owning relic for historical purposes (private collection) is different than cheap replicas to appease people. I'm not flying the Nazi banner, I collect weapons because of historical purpose regardless where they were made or who they were used by. I don't collect weapons with a swastika because I like them, I hate the Nazis but I realize it was a part of history and that rifle with the swastika reminds me of the evil empire that was destroyed, it's a relic symbolic of a dead empire. That's all it is to me. It's no different than buying swords that were used by the Roman Empire or Persian Empire for historical purposes as a private collection. I don't collect just Nazi weaponry, I collect allied weapons as well. Mosin Nagant from the Soviets, British Lee Enfield, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, 1911 from America, Arisaka type 38 and 99 from Japan.
Not all Nazi weapons were used against Jews. Do you understand where i'm coming from? Egypt used AK47's against the Jews in the 1967 and 1973 war but yet I still own a Egyptian made Ak47. Why? Because neither Egypt nor Germany profit from my ownership of this weapon. They were taken and sold on the US market and neither country profits from it. Now if Germany were profitting from the sale of Nazi marked KAR98's, then that would be a different story. The only people making money from this are the gun distributors in America who have purchased military surplus weapons from the US government.
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i see where ur coming from, but i mean 3/4 of my family were killed by german mg42's i mean can u understand my position ? there is no easy way to say wether its moral or immoral, i cant imagine if the nazi arm band owned one day by nazis is now on display in someones home, it makes me sick to my stomach
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i see where ur coming from, but i mean 3/4 of my family were killed by german mg42's i mean can u understand my position ? there is no easy way to say wether its moral or immoral, i cant imagine if the nazi arm band owned one day by nazis is now on display in someones home, it makes me sick to my stomach
I guess that'd be equivalent to a Arab in Lebanon proudly displaying artifacts and relic owned by Israelis in their home like boots, uniform, rifle. You would feel insulted yes that the enemy has posession of our things? To me, the greatest insult to the Nazis is the fact a Jew posesses what they once created, because we defeated them.
The MG42 was the tool but it was the soldiers responsible, remember, never blame the tool for the death but the individual. We do not blame the car for killing someone in the car crash but the driver.
I know my Mauser was not made by Jews in concentration camp because I verified the serial and the number, also there is no death heads skull on the rifle which if there was would imply it was used by SS. Rifle was used in stalingrad against Russians.
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i understand and any way to humiliate the nazi world is fine by me O0
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the cool thing about world war two is both russia and germany lost 3 million soldiers O0 :::D every other aspect is f***ed up
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Well it turns out Mitchell Arms is apparently a company I should avoid. I saw advertisement of them in magazines about Mauser K98's brand new, their ad was misleading, it claimed I could get one for 249 dollars but it turned out it wasn't even a Mauser with German markings but a yugoslavian model 48. Also it turns out that theres a possibility some of their markings are fake, they claim to sell Mausers made by concentration camp prisoners and people are telling me the symbols are fake. Personally I think it's wrong that they are trying to profit off other peoples suffering as a marketing gimmick. I don't think I will buy from Mitchells, theres claims that they are modern day Mausers with fake replica markings sold at a higher price.
I think I'm just going to get a beater used in stalingrad, at least it will have original markings.
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thats a good idea, however i woud rather purchase a russian tokt 3 pistol (i love the classics)
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thats a good idea, however i woud rather purchase a russian tokt 3 pistol (i love the classics)
Never heard of a tokt 3, do you mean a Tokarev TT pistol?
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I have heard a lot of good of the Tokarev pistol. Can anybody post a technical description?
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I have heard a lot of good of the Tokarev pistol. Can anybody post a technical description?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Volk_TT_pistol.JPG)
The TT-30 (7,62 mm Samozarjadnyj Pistolet Tokareva obrazca 1930 goda, Russian: 7,62-мм самозарядный пистолет Токарева образца 1930 года) is a semi-automatic pistol developed by Fedor Tokarev as a service pistol for the Soviet military to replace the Nagant M1895 revolvers in use since tsarist times.
In 1930, the Revolutionary Military council approved a resolution to test new small arms to replace its aging Nagant M1895 revolvers[1]. During these test, on January 7, 1931, the potential of a pistol designed by Fedor Tokarev was noted. A few weeks later, 1000 TT-30's were ordered for troop trials, and the pistol was adopted for service in the Red Army[2].
But even as the TT-30 was being put into production, design changes were made to simplify manufacturing. Minor changes to the barrel, disconnector[3], trigger and frame were implemented, the most notable ones being the omission of the removable backstrap and changes to the full-circumference locking lugs. This redesigned pistol was the TT-33[2]. The TT-33 was widely used by Soviet troops during World War II, but did not completely replace the Nagant until that war.
[edit] Design details
Externally, the TT-33 is very similar to John Browning's blowback operated FN Model 1903 automatic pistol, but it also used Browning's short recoil dropping-barrel system from the 1911 series. The TT-33 is not a 1911 clone, however, as it employs a much simpler hammer/sear assembly with an external hammer. This assembly is removable from the weapon as a modular unit and includes cartridge guides that provide reliable functioning. The Soviet engineers also added several other features such as locking lugs all around the barrel (not just on top), and made several alterations to make the mechanism easier to produce and maintain. Production even machined the magazine feed lips into the receiver to prevent damage and misfeeds when a distorted magazine was loaded into the magazine well[4].
The TT-33 is chambered for the 7.62x25mm Tokarev cartridge, which was itself based on the similar 7.63x25mm Mauser cartridge used in the Mauser C96 pistol. Able to withstand tremendous abuse, large numbers of the TT-33 were produced during WWII and well into the 1950s.
The Tokarev is gaining in popularity with pistol collectors and shooters in the West because of its ruggedness, reliability and ready availability of cheap ammunition (in the US). However, some complaints include poor-quality grips (which are often replaced by the wrap-around Tokagypt 58 grips) and a hand grip which extends at a vertical angle awkward for many Western shooters. Nonetheless, the Tokarev, as well as its variants in 9 mm, is renowned for its simplicity and accuracy.[5]
From wikipedia
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I like this picture, describes Nazi arms accurately.
(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/22309-3/difference7198.jpg)
(http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/5185-6/2uses7199.jpg)
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i understand and any way to humiliate the nazi world is fine by me O0
I Agree O0
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yes i meant that type of pistol, i forgot the name and tried to shorten it in the from of a abriviation, :-[ but the pistol is beautiful, i have it on my mantel. ;D
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Is it the Font or the Colour?? You sure you don't need to see a doctor?? I mean do you get headaches when you read too much? Try adjusting the brightness on your monitor. I am constantly adjusting mine. O0
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Must be the color. The blue was tough. ^-^
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In the Uprisings against the Nazis in the Ghettos, and in the Partisan Groups who had Jew members, which guns did they use? I do not think many used Soviet guns until 1943-1945? So... Which guns?
Answer: German. Nazi.
Such a gun, to have been in the hands of a Hero who fight against Fascism and Oppresion would be good. And, in the end, a gun is a gun. It serves a purpose. To kill or harm a enemy. I have heard such stories of Jews killing Nazis with Nazi guns across Occupied Europe in 2WK and of course, some groups did this even AFTER war!
So, no. It is not wrong for a these weapons unless it is wrong for a person to pick the gun off the corpse of a stinking Arab (which we know stinks before death) and shoot any other stinking Arab who comes for him.
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Removing the swastika from a nazi gun is about as stupid and pointless as dynamiting the Buddhas of Bayman, especially the swastika on waffenamt markings is no bigger than the head of a lead pencil and difficult to spot.
I would not buy nazi or soviet goods if those regimes profited from the sale.
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We shouldn't erase history, because that is what the monkey man named Ahmedinejab is trying to do and all his Jew hating, Anti-Semitic friends. PErsonally, I think its glorious that a Jewish man can hold a nazi gun with a swastika on it.. THAT MEANS THOSE SCUMBAGS LOST BIG TIME!!! Did you ever think Hitler would ever think one day a Jewish man would be holding a gun with a swastika on it looking down at German graves? I like to see a Jewish guy go to a grave where a nazi is buried and bring a nazi gun wiht swastika to shoot up the grave, saying "L'CHAIM L'CHAIM MAZEL TOV, YOU NAZI PIGS LOST!"