JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dr. Dan on July 02, 2008, 11:57:10 PM
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I wanted to thank you, Chaim, for you homage of Persian Jews...It's definately something worthwhile to look into to see if any would be willing to partake in a movement like this one.
I have come across a few that are pro-AIPAC, and consider Kahane to be an extremist, yet they have never read or learned about anything Kahane has said and how much forthsight he had on the issues of Israel and it's friendly neightbors...
However, there are others who are reasonable Jews who agree with what this movement says and hope for the worst for Israel's enemies. However, these Persians only hope and are not into activism.
Then you have the religious Shirazi ones who are 100% in line with Kahane and even into activism. However, they don't have much money.
Coming from this community, many of the Persian Jews do come together to help fellow Jews pay for college or support Israel's other movements...except they need to hear us and why their donations are not for as good a use as it coudl be for JTF.
Another thing which I observe about many of the wealthy wealthy persian jews is that a lot of them seem to be stuck in their own lives and their own status and business and really couldn't care that much about anything else. Unfortunately, it might become their demise if those types begin to make money their god.
How can we reach the Persian community with our message and in a non missionizing way? And the same goes with the Jewish Syrian communites of Deal, NJ and Brooklyn?
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Interesting info, thanks for sharing. I always like to hear about various Jewish communities. I have met a few Persian Jews, they are awesome, and actually the one's I've met would probably be the biggest Kahanists around if they had known anything about Rav Kahane and his Torah perspective!!
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The Persian Jews I've known are all wonderful people.
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I'd like to add something here, since I'm the daughter of Persian Jews.
Many years ago, Rabbi Kahane gave a speech at someone's home in Kings Point, Great Neck. My father and my moonbat Iranian brother in law were there. So according to my crazy Islamophile brother in law, Rabbi Kahane said something to the effect of wanting all the Arabs in Israel killed.
Now my father and mother grew up in Iran, as did their parents, and their parents before them, ever since the destruction of the 1st Temple. So while they deplore terrorism against Jews and Americans, they also point out that the educated Iranian Moslems are good, decent people. So anyway, according to my brother in law, once my father heard Rabbi Kahane say that all the Arabs need to be killed, he walked right out of there.
However, that was many years ago. And after all that's happened in Israel, I still think Chaim has a good chance of winning over many Iranian Jews. My recommendation is that Chaim should arrange to speak at several of the Iranian Synagogues in Great Neck. There's also a Syrian Synagogue he could try.
Here's the contact information for the Mashadi Iranian Synagogue my parents belong to:
Mashadi Jewish Center 516-487-3636
Shaare Shalom 516-829-3443
54 Steamboat Road Fax: 516-829-2822
Great Neck, NY 11024 D,K,H
Rabbi Yosef Bitton
Rabbi Moti Kohanim
Website: www.mashadi.org
I should also add that there are now two Mashadi Synagogues on Steamboat Road. I don't know the name of the second, newer one. But if you call the first number, I'm sure they'll give you the address and phone number of the newer Synagogue.
Anyway, here's the contact info for other Synagogues:
North Shore Sephardic Synagogue 516-482-1655/4228
130 Cuttermill Road
Great Neck, NY 11021
Rabbi Isaac Bakhshi
Shaare Zion of Great Neck 516-829-8741
225 Middle Neck Road
Great Neck, NY 11021
Rabbi Nissim Levy
Iranian Jewish Center
Beth Hadassah Synagogue
160 Steamboat Road
Great Neck 11021
516-482-8080 This is the Tehrani Synagogue
Congregation Shira Chadasha/Shaare Rahamimrn
695 Middle Neck Road
Great Neck, NY 11023
516 482-2290
Rabbi Shlomo Shoub
(men and women's mikveh on premises)
And here's the contact info. for the Syrian Synagogue:
Torah Ohr
575 Middle Neck Road
Great Neck, NY 11023
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I think JTF can potentially makes its way to the most hardcore of the religious sefardic Persian populations in Queens and some of the ORthodox synogogues in Great Neck...if there is anyone from there on this forum, it might be possible to start with flyers that simply introduce JTF and post them on bulliten boards in some of these synogogues. For now I would avoid any synogogue that considers itself Conservative or Reform because the Rabbis there are most likely part of the Jewish American Establishment.
My take on spreading the word of JTF is to be subtle and not seem like you are missionizing or like you are used care salesman.
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I'd like to add something here, since I'm the daughter of Persian Jews.
Many years ago, Rabbi Kahane gave a speech at someone's home in Kings Point, Great Neck. My father and my moonbat Iranian brother in law were there. So according to my crazy Islamophile brother in law, Rabbi Kahane said something to the effect of wanting all the Arabs in Israel killed.
Now my father and mother grew up in Iran, as did their parents, and their parents before them, ever since the destruction of the 1st Temple. So while they deplore terrorism against Jews and Americans, they also point out that the educated Iranian Moslems are good, decent people. So anyway, according to my brother in law, once my father heard Rabbi Kahane say that all the Arabs need to be killed, he walked right out of there.
However, that was many years ago. And after all that's happened in Israel, I still think Chaim has a good chance of winning over many Iranian Jews. My recommendation is that Chaim should arrange to speak at several of the Iranian Synagogues in Great Neck. There's also a Syrian Synagogue he could try.
Here's the contact information for the Mashadi Iranian Synagogue my parents belong to:
Mashadi Jewish Center 516-487-3636
Shaare Shalom 516-829-3443
54 Steamboat Road Fax: 516-829-2822
Great Neck, NY 11024 D,K,H
Rabbi Yosef Bitton
Rabbi Moti Kohanim
Website: www.mashadi.org
I should also add that there are now two Mashadi Synagogues on Steamboat Road. I don't know the name of the second, newer one. But if you call the first number, I'm sure they'll give you the address and phone number of the newer Synagogue.
Anyway, here's the contact info for other Synagogues:
North Shore Sefardic Synagogue 516-482-1655/4228
130 Cuttermill Road
Great Neck, NY 11021
Rabbi Isaac Bakhshi
Shaare Zion of Great Neck 516-829-8741
225 Middle Neck Road
Great Neck, NY 11021
Rabbi Nissim Levy
Iranian Jewish Center
Beth Hadassah Synagogue
160 Steamboat Road
Great Neck 11021
516-482-8080 This is the Tehrani Synagogue
Congregation Shira Chadasha/Shaare Rahamimrn
695 Middle Neck Road
Great Neck, NY 11023
516 482-2290
Rabbi Shlomo Shoub
(men and women's mikveh on premises)
And here's the contact info. for the Syrian Synagogue:
Torah Ohr
575 Middle Neck Road
Great Neck, NY 11023
Lisa, it would be great if any of these synogogues have chaim there to esspeak...
I woudl want to add though, that many educated Muslims that are Persian, while decent and on the side of the Shah and therefore the Jews..and many are decent people, we have to be careful and not trust them with our lives...
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Mashadi Jewish Center 516-487-3636
Shaare Shalom 516-829-3443
54 Steamboat Road Fax: 516-829-2822
Great Neck, NY 11024 D,K,H
Rabbi Yosef Bitton
Rabbi Moti Kohanim
Website: www.mashadi.org
Bitton is not a Persain name
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Bitton is not a Persain name
Rabbi Bitton is originally from Uruguay. But he is of Turkish ancestry.
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I never saw an orthodox Askanazi shul in kings PT. do they have any
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I never saw an orthodox Askanazi shul in kings PT. do they have any
Kings Point is strictly a fancy residential area of Great Neck, so there are no Synagogues there. However, there is one Orthodox Ashkenazi shul in Great Neck. It's called the Great Neck Synagoge. It's located on Old Mill Road, along with Temple Israel, the Conservative Synagogue, and Temple Beth-El, the Deforemed place. The Great Neck Synagogue has been there, along with the other two, ever since I can remember.
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I never saw an orthodox Askanazi shul in kings PT. do they have any
Kings Point is strictly a fancy residential area of Great Neck, so there are no Synagogues there. However, there is one Orthodox Ashkenazi shul in Great Neck. It's called the Great Neck Synagoge. It's located on Old Mill Road, along with Temple Israel, the Conservative Synagogue, and Temple Beth-El, the Deforemed place. The Great Neck Synagogue has been there, along with the other two, ever since I can remember.
Thats the block before east shore rd.
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I never saw an orthodox Askanazi shul in kings PT. do they have any
Cherry Lane synogogue..but correct me if I"m wrong. but the rabbi is political and against Obama.
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I never saw an orthodox Askanazi shul in kings PT. do they have any
Kings Point is strictly a fancy residential area of Great Neck, so there are no Synagogues there. However, there is one Orthodox Ashkenazi shul in Great Neck. It's called the Great Neck Synagoge. It's located on Old Mill Road, along with Temple Israel, the Conservative Synagogue, and Temple Beth-El, the Deforemed place. The Great Neck Synagogue has been there, along with the other two, ever since I can remember.
Thats the block before east shore rd.
not even close... lol...it connects bayview to middle neck road
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Thats the block before east shore rd.
No. Old Mill Road is off of Middle Neck Road, which is Great Neck's main street. If you take Middle Neck Road all the way North (in the opposite direction of the train station), you'll get to Kings Point. Once you go all the way down, you'll hit a sort of island in the road, which on the right side, becomes East Shore Road. If you bear left of the island, that is Wildwood Road. The Cherry Lane Synagogue is located on Wildwood Road. I went there for 2nd and 3rd grade when it used to be a public school. It's a mixed Ashkenazic and Sephardic Synagogue. And it would be a good idea to contact them as well.
Also Mord, I was mistaken, being that the Cherry Lane Synagoge is actually located in Kings Point, since Wildwood Road is part of KP.
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Thats the block before east shore rd.
No. Old Mill Road is off of Middle Neck Road, which is Great Neck's main street. If you take Middle Neck Road all the way North (in the opposite direction of the train station), you'll get to Kings Point. Once you go all the way down, you'll hit a sort of island in the road, which on the right side, becomes East Shore Road. If you bear left of the island, that is Wildwood Road. The Cherry Lane Synagogue is located on Wildwood Road. I went there for 2nd and 3rd grade when it used to be a public school. It's a mixed Ashkenazic and Sefardic Synagogue. And it would be a good idea to contact them as well.
Also Mord, I was mistaken, being that the Cherry Lane Synagoge is actually located in Kings Point, since Wildwood Road is part of KP.
dont forget the chabad house on east Shore road...another place to mention JTF.
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I'd like to add something here, since I'm the daughter of Persian Jews.
Many years ago, Rabbi Kahane gave a speech at someone's home in Kings Point, Great Neck. My father and my moonbat Iranian brother in law were there. So according to my crazy Islamophile brother in law, Rabbi Kahane said something to the effect of wanting all the Arabs in Israel killed.
Now my father and mother grew up in Iran, as did their parents, and their parents before them, ever since the destruction of the 1st Temple. So while they deplore terrorism against Jews and Americans, they also point out that the educated Iranian Moslems are good, decent people. So anyway, according to my brother in law, once my father heard Rabbi Kahane say that all the Arabs need to be killed, he walked right out of there.
However, that was many years ago. And after all that's happened in Israel, I still think Chaim has a good chance of winning over many Iranian Jews. My recommendation is that Chaim should arrange to speak at several of the Iranian Synagogues in Great Neck. There's also a Syrian Synagogue he could try.
Here's the contact information for the Mashadi Iranian Synagogue my parents belong to:
Mashadi Jewish Center 516-487-3636
Shaare Shalom 516-829-3443
54 Steamboat Road Fax: 516-829-2822
Great Neck, NY 11024 D,K,H
Rabbi Yosef Bitton
Rabbi Moti Kohanim
Website: www.mashadi.org
I should also add that there are now two Mashadi Synagogues on Steamboat Road. I don't know the name of the second, newer one. But if you call the first number, I'm sure they'll give you the address and phone number of the newer Synagogue.
Anyway, here's the contact info for other Synagogues:
North Shore Sefardic Synagogue 516-482-1655/4228
130 Cuttermill Road
Great Neck, NY 11021
Rabbi Isaac Bakhshi
Shaare Zion of Great Neck 516-829-8741
225 Middle Neck Road
Great Neck, NY 11021
Rabbi Nissim Levy
Iranian Jewish Center
Beth Hadassah Synagogue
160 Steamboat Road
Great Neck 11021
516-482-8080 This is the Tehrani Synagogue
Congregation Shira Chadasha/Shaare Rahamimrn
695 Middle Neck Road
Great Neck, NY 11023
516 482-2290
Rabbi Shlomo Shoub
(men and women's mikveh on premises)
And here's the contact info. for the Syrian Synagogue:
Torah Ohr
575 Middle Neck Road
Great Neck, NY 11023
Lisa, I'd imagine that with Ahmadinejad running his mouth the way he has the past several years, at least some Iranian Jews have seen the light now and are willing to countenance the possibility that the Muslims are not their friends. I think this is all worth a shot.
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Re: "It's called the Great Neck Synagoge."
Cool!
There's one near me called the Red Neck Synagogue!
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Re: "It's called the Great Neck Synagoge."
Cool!
There's one near me called the Red Neck Synagogue!
derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr der der der :laugh:
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dont forget the chabad house on east Shore road...another place to mention JTF.
Right you are, Dr. Dan.
And C.F. I agree with your post as well.
But I just want to make you all aware of one caveat. Many Iranian Jews are apolitical. They don't think it's there place to get involved in American politics. My parents have been living this country for over 50 years, and neither one has ever voted in any election.
However, the Iranians are very good about raising money for Israel. So I think Chaim should take the approach of wanting to make Israel safer for the Jews. He doesn't have to go into the part about saving America and Western civilization, since the Iranians are very clannish.
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Kings Point is strictly a fancy residential area of Great Neck, so there are no Synagogues there. However, there is one Orthodox Ashkenazi shul in Great Neck. It's called the Great Neck Synagoge. It's located on Old Mill Road, along with Temple Israel, the Conservative Synagogue, and Temple Beth-El, the Deforemed place. The Great Neck Synagogue has been there, along with the other two, ever since I can remember.
Persian Jews are Sephardim, correct?
Can Sephardim attend Ashkenazi synagogues and vice versa, or is there a strict code of separation?
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dont forget the chabad house on east Shore road...another place to mention JTF.
Right you are, Dr. Dan.
And C.F. I agree with your post as well.
But I just want to make you all aware of one caveat. Many Iranian Jews are apolitical. They don't think it's there place to get involved in American politics. My parents have been living this country for over 50 years, and neither one has ever voted in any election.
However, the Iranians are very good about raising money for Israel. So I think Chaim should take the approach of wanting to make Israel safer for the Jews. He doesn't have to go into the part about saving America and Western civilization, since the Iranians are very clannish.
exactly
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Kings Point is strictly a fancy residential area of Great Neck, so there are no Synagogues there. However, there is one Orthodox Ashkenazi shul in Great Neck. It's called the Great Neck Synagoge. It's located on Old Mill Road, along with Temple Israel, the Conservative Synagogue, and Temple Beth-El, the Deforemed place. The Great Neck Synagogue has been there, along with the other two, ever since I can remember.
Persian Jews are Sefaradim, correct?
Can Sefaradim attend Ashkenazi synagogues and vice versa, or is there a strict code of separation?
Any Jew can attend any synogogue he/she wants. The only difference is the traditional approach to praying and what to read...but we are all jews...all the same with some variety...
It different wtih different Christian denominations. However...sephardic or ashkanazi..jew is a jew...just some traditions are different.
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Many Iranian Jews are apolitical. They don't think it's their place to get involved in American politics. My parents have been living this country for over 50 years, and neither one has ever voted in any election.
Not comparing them to them in any way, but that sounds like typical behavior for G-d's Witnesses (Watch Towers, or JWs). They believe that all government is the whore of Babylon and that we mustn't have anything to do with civics.
Is there a Persian rabbinical teaching that forbids any civic involvement in the Galut for Iranian Jews?
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Many Iranian Jews are apolitical. They don't think it's their place to get involved in American politics. My parents have been living this country for over 50 years, and neither one has ever voted in any election.
Not comparing them to them in any way, but that sounds like typical behavior for G-d's Witnesses (Watch Towers, or JWs). They believe that all government is the whore of Babylon and that we mustn't have anything to do with civics.
Is there a Persian rabbinical teaching that forbids any civic involvement in the Galut for Iranian Jews?
not that i'm aware necessarily. Persian Jews are relatively new to this country. Most came here in the late 70's early 80's around the time Khomenei took over. Some Persian Jews in the states stupidly yearn to return to Iran. Most others have assimilated, but still stick to their own in their own communities. A large consentration of Perisan jews are in Great Neck/Kings Point, Beverly Hills, and to a less extent, Forest Hills, Manhattan, Roslyn, the California Valley (eg Woodland Hills etc). A few are here and there in parts of NJ, Texas, and Atlanta...but negligible in concentration in one area compared to the first areas of mentioned.
So in a nutshell, excluding from what I understand of Mashadi Persians, the other Persians have assimilated a little bit, but tend to stick to their own communities most of the time. As generation passes, it is very likely that persian jews will be fully assimilated to American culture with some exceptions.
All are pro Israel. Most are republicans. A lot are for a right wing israel...however those very persians are also misguided to what right wing really is and have mainly shifted with the American Jewish public on what right wing tends to be. It's not too late though for them and many who are interested need to wake up. They love to help Israel...but we need to get into their heads the real concern. The majority of the more religious Persian Jews would be very pro-kahane and very pro-JTF..the ones who have established themselves here and have become much more comfortable and assimilated will find us to be too extreme...we shoudln't worry too much about them now...we need to go to the types that woudl gravitate towards us first by presenting JTF in the synogogues that will comfortably accept most things chaim woudl say about Israel.
Quite frankly, it might take 6 months to a few years for more and more persian Jews to almost fully accept JTF. and I think it's a great place to start....
What do you think we can do, Lisa?
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Persian Jews are Sefaradim, correct?
Can Sefaradim attend Ashkenazi synagogues and vice versa, or is there a strict code of separation?
Actually, C.F., if you really wanted to split hairs, the Iranian Jews are technically Mizrachis, since they're not from Spain.
As for your second question, it's not a matter of any strict code of separation. Like I said before, the Iranians are a clannish bunch. Therefore, the Iranians originally from the northern city of Meshad, have their two Mashadi Synagogues, and the Tehranis have their Synagogues as well.
There are also differences in how the services are conducted. The Ashkenazi Synagogues have cantors, who lead the congregation in singing the prayers, along with their rabbis. Their rabbis will also conduct sermons/speeches on either current events, or the Torah portion being covered.
For a long time, the Mashadi Synagogue didn't even have a rabbi. They had one who quit, and then they hired Rabbi Biton. Generally, the Iranians chant all the prayers, and the women gossip loudly in the back. You don't have the rabbis giving speeches.
I remember once going to the Mashadi where the old rabbi gave a speech about current events. He touched upon child abuse, Elizabeth Smart, etc. The Iranians weren't used to it. So when the rabbi was done, they all clapped for him out of politeness.
Also, you'll *never* hear any Iranian Jew saying "Well my Rebbe said blah blah blah, and that's why I'm doing such and such." It's not they don't respect rabbis. But they'll first listen to their parents, or the elders in the community. My parents think this way. My mother often says of young rabbis that they might mean well, but that they're simply people who've gone to rabbinical school for a few years.
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Persian Jews are Sefaradim, correct?
Can Sefaradim attend Ashkenazi synagogues and vice versa, or is there a strict code of separation?
Actually, C.F., if you really wanted to split hairs, the Iranian Jews are technically Mizrachis, since they're not from Spain.
As for your second question, it's not a matter of any strict code of separation. Like I said before, the Iranians are a clannish bunch. Therefore, the Iranians originally from the northern city of Meshad, have their two Mashadi Synagogues, and the Tehranis have their Synagogues as well.
There are also differences in how the services are conducted. The Ashkenazi Synagogues have cantors, who lead the congregation in singing the prayers, along with their rabbis. Their rabbis will also conduct sermons/speeches on either current events, or the Torah portion being covered.
For a long time, the Mashadi Synagogue didn't even have a rabbi. They had one who quit, and then they hired Rabbi Biton. Generally, the Iranians chant all the prayers, and the women gossip loudly in the back. You don't have the rabbis giving speeches.
I remember once going to the Mashadi where the old rabbi gave a speech about current events. He touched upon child abuse, Elizabeth Smart, etc. The Iranians weren't used to it. So when the rabbi was done, they all clapped for him out of politeness.
Also, you'll *never* hear any Iranian Jew saying "Well my Rebbe said blah blah blah, and that's why I'm doing such and such." It's not they don't respect rabbis. But they'll first listen to their parents, or the elders in the community. My parents think this way. My mother often says of young rabbis that they might mean well, but that they're simply people who've gone to rabbinical school for a few years.
Lisa...i was able to find out that my relatives from 100's of years ago, at least were from Spain and made their way into Persia...so it's possible that many Persian Jews are a combination of Mizrachi and Sefardi.
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Is there a Persian rabbinical teaching that forbids any civic involvement in the Galut for Iranian Jews?
No. It's more a matter of trying to keep out of trouble. Back in Iran, those Jews that were involved in any way with the Shah were killed by Khomeini's goons.
And there's one more caveat when it comes to reaching out to the Persians.
They tend to stear clear of anything that comes across to them as religious fanaticism. Like Dr. Dan, they believe in moderation when it comes to religion. But that's not to say they don't follow the Jewish laws or observe the mitzvot and the High Holidays. But they don't go hanging onto every single word a rabbi says. If anything they believe in learning for themselves and practicing Judaism to the best of their understanding and ability.
So my advice to Chaim is to keep his message positive. The best and fastest way to turn these people off would be to speak badly of the establishment Jewish leaders. Now granted, Chaim has valid points against them. And it's definitely funny listening to him tear these people apart. But when dealing with the Persian Jews, Chaim needs to point out factually why he would be better for Israel than these other groups, and why the other groups do more harm than good. He needs to do that without calling them kikes and pigs, or wishing cancer on them.
The Iranian Jews place a very high value on good manners and pleasantness. So it would behoove us all to remember that.
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I wanted to thank you, Chaim, for you homage of Persian Jews...It's definately something worthwhile to look into to see if any would be willing to partake in a movement like this one.
I have come across a few that are pro-AIPAC, and consider Kahane to be an extremist, yet they have never read or learned about anything Kahane has said and how much forthsight he had on the issues of Israel and it's friendly neightbors...
However, there are others who are reasonable Jews who agree with what this movement says and hope for the worst for Israel's enemies. However, these Persians only hope and are not into activism.
Then you have the religious Shirazi ones who are 100% in line with Kahane and even into activism. However, they don't have much money.
Coming from this community, many of the Persian Jews do come together to help fellow Jews pay for college or support Israel's other movements...except they need to hear us and why their donations are not for as good a use as it coudl be for JTF.
Another thing which I observe about many of the wealthy wealthy persian jews is that a lot of them seem to be stuck in their own lives and their own status and business and really couldn't care that much about anything else. Unfortunately, it might become their demise if those types begin to make money their G-d.
How can we reach the Persian community with our message and in a non missionizing way? And the same goes with the Jewish Syrian communites of Deal, NJ and Brooklyn?
Some of the people involved with AIPAC are definitely left-wing. Regardless of what the organization claims, Israel is not a top priority of AIPAC's. Many people falsely assume that Israel is a top priority of AIPAC. Consequently, many of AIPAC's critics are anti-Israel.
So it shouldn't surprise you if an AIPAC person were to say something negative about Kahane. You shouldn't assume that being pro-AIPAC is a good thing.
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Lisa...i was able to find out that my relatives from 100's of years ago, at least were from Spain and made their way into Persia...so it's possible that many Persian Jews are a combination of Mizrachi and Sefaradi.
Good point Dr. Dan. Some of them might be a little bit of both. But then again, I'm just writing based on what my mother told me about the Mashadi Jews.
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I wanted to thank you, Chaim, for you homage of Persian Jews...It's definately something worthwhile to look into to see if any would be willing to partake in a movement like this one.
I have come across a few that are pro-AIPAC, and consider Kahane to be an extremist, yet they have never read or learned about anything Kahane has said and how much forthsight he had on the issues of Israel and it's friendly neightbors...
However, there are others who are reasonable Jews who agree with what this movement says and hope for the worst for Israel's enemies. However, these Persians only hope and are not into activism.
Then you have the religious Shirazi ones who are 100% in line with Kahane and even into activism. However, they don't have much money.
Coming from this community, many of the Persian Jews do come together to help fellow Jews pay for college or support Israel's other movements...except they need to hear us and why their donations are not for as good a use as it coudl be for JTF.
Another thing which I observe about many of the wealthy wealthy persian jews is that a lot of them seem to be stuck in their own lives and their own status and business and really couldn't care that much about anything else. Unfortunately, it might become their demise if those types begin to make money their G-d.
How can we reach the Persian community with our message and in a non missionizing way? And the same goes with the Jewish Syrian communites of Deal, NJ and Brooklyn?
Some of the people involved with AIPAC are definitely left-wing. Regardless of what the organization claims, Israel is not a top priority of AIPAC's. Many people falsely assume that Israel is a top priority of AIPAC. Consequently, many of AIPAC's critics are anti-Israel.
So it shouldn't surprise you if an AIPAC person were to say something negative about Kahane. You shouldn't assume that being pro-AIPAC is a good thing.
Never assumed it..I know some Persian Jews (one of which I sent one of Chaim's videos) tried to recruit me or get me to recruit young Jewish singles to their group at teh Israeli day parade. Then I showed him my Mier kahane book and "not one inch" t-shirt i had recently purchased that he said, "Oh he's an extremist...we only deal with movements that are mainstream. And he laughed at me." As my friend my calming me down, I thought to myself, "Let's see who gets the last laugh..."
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Well, Lisa, I'm hoping that recent events with Ahmadinejad will convince them to be less neutral and detached from political issues. It's worth a shot. If even 20% of the audiences of these synagogues receive Chaim favorably, that will be a huge step.
I can't say that I understand why Iranian Jews would eschew all politial involvement just because of the brutal repression back in Iran. I mean--they came to America to flee that savagery, right? They ought to have some level of faith in American leaders by now. Do they actually fear that there could be a Shoah in America if they don't keep their views to themselves, or what? No offense, but it doesn't make much sense to me.
Why do you think you left the sphere of Iranian Jewish disinterest, Lisa, and became a hardcore conservative who speaks out constantly on Jewish, American, and world issues? Are you rejected for this in the Iranian Jewish community?
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Generally, the Iranians chant all the prayers, and the women gossip loudly in the back.
ROTFLMAO :::D :::D :::D
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I can't say that I understand why Iranian Jews would eschew all politial involvement just because of the brutal repression back in Iran. I mean--they came to America to flee that savagery, right? They ought to have some level of faith in American leaders by now. Do they actually fear that there could be a Shoah in America if they don't keep their views to themselves, or what? No offense, but it doesn't make much sense to me.
I think the Iranian Jews, like the Ashanazis have become cynical from experience. They've seen how Jews get scapegoated for things that aren't their fault. So they keep a low profile. That's not to say they don't appreciate being here. But they're not that trusting.
Now for your second question...I was born and raised in the U.S. When I was growing up, there were very few Iranian Jewish families in Great Neck. So my parents would not have had a leg to stand on if they had told me not to be friends with other Americans. It also helps that I have two older sisters, one of whom married an American Ashkenaz.
But now Great Neck has changed. It has probably the largest Jewish Iranian population in America. And most of them came here right after the revolution, together. So they already have a group to socialize with, work with and pray with. In fact, many Mashadi's are very strict about who their children can be friends with, or marry. (At my age, my parents would be happy with me marrying anyone, as long as it would be a Jew.)
And I was always a shy person. I never had large groups of friends. One of my sisters went away to college, and I followed in her footsteps. But I used to be more liberal when I was younger.
My shift to the right began in my early thirties. It started when I read Ayn Rand's Magnum Opus Atlas Shrugged, and got into full swing when I stumbled upon Chaim Ben Pesach on Manhattan Neighborhood Network public television.
Throughout this time, I found that I enjoyed writing. The story of how I decided to start blogging is for another post. But suffice it to say my parents think it's a waste of time, and that I should be focusing on more lucrative pursuits, along with finding a husband.
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Is there a Persian rabbinical teaching that forbids any civic involvement in the Galut for Iranian Jews?
No. It's more a matter of trying to keep out of trouble. Back in Iran, those Jews that were involved in any way with the Shah were killed by Khomeini's goons.
And there's one more caveat when it comes to reaching out to the Persians.
They tend to stear clear of anything that comes across to them as religious fanaticism. Like Dr. Dan, they believe in moderation when it comes to religion. But that's not to say they don't follow the Jewish laws or observe the mitzvot and the High Holidays. But they don't go hanging onto every single word a rabbi says. If anything they believe in learning for themselves and practicing Judaism to the best of their understanding and ability.
So my advice to Chaim is to keep his message positive. The best and fastest way to turn these people off would be to speak badly of the establishment Jewish leaders. Now granted, Chaim has valid points against them. And it's definitely funny listening to him tear these people apart. But when dealing with the Persian Jews, Chaim needs to point out factually why he would be better for Israel than these other groups, and why the other groups do more harm than good. He needs to do that without calling them kikes and pigs, or wishing cancer on them.
The Iranian Jews place a very high value on good manners and pleasantness. So it would behoove us all to remember that.
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!!
I hate to say this, but many Persians tend to gravitate towards the conservative movement due to this "Judaism in moderation"...Once again you have those who have become hardcore almost to Tzvi ben Roshel's liking, but not that far. There are yet still more recent (Fresh off the Boat) persians who are religious and shomer shabbat etc...but not hassidish and firebrand...they do their thing and leave everyone else alone.
Lisa, what should we tell Chaim? I think this will be a great place to start..and I do have confidence that Chaim will gain some supporters..but hopefully more than just some.
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Well, Lisa, I'm hoping that recent events with Ahmadinejad will convince them to be less neutral and detached from political issues. It's worth a shot. If even 20% of the audiences of these synagogues receive Chaim favorably, that will be a huge step.
I can't say that I understand why Iranian Jews would eschew all politial involvement just because of the brutal repression back in Iran. I mean--they came to America to flee that savagery, right? They ought to have some level of faith in American leaders by now. Do they actually fear that there could be a Shoah in America if they don't keep their views to themselves, or what? No offense, but it doesn't make much sense to me.
Why do you think you left the sphere of Iranian Jewish disinterest, Lisa, and became a hardcore conservative who speaks out constantly on Jewish, American, and world issues? Are you rejected for this in the Iranian Jewish community?
It doesn't make much sense to me either, CF...I worry about the Persian Jews of the USA...not just with their assimilation..that's nothing to me..but many of the wealthy people's Jewish values. I have the perception that more and more of this community are losing their way...Of course I might be wrong...but materialism is a form of idolatry..that is when someone uses material as a means to be consider himself special and nothing more.
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I can't say that I understand why Iranian Jews would eschew all politial involvement just because of the brutal repression back in Iran. I mean--they came to America to flee that savagery, right? They ought to have some level of faith in American leaders by now. Do they actually fear that there could be a Shoah in America if they don't keep their views to themselves, or what? No offense, but it doesn't make much sense to me.
I think the Iranian Jews, like the Ashanazis have become cynical from experience. They've seen how Jews get scapegoated for things that aren't their fault. So they keep a low profile. That's not to say they don't appreciate being here. But they're not that trusting.
Now for your second question...I was born and raised in the U.S. When I was growing up, there were very few Iranian Jewish families in Great Neck. So my parents would not have had a leg to stand on if they had told me not to be friends with other Americans. It also helps that I have two older sisters, one of whom married an American Ashkenaz.
But now Great Neck has changed. It has probably the largest Jewish Iranian population in America. And most of them came here right after the revolution, together. So they already have a group to socialize with, work with and pray with. In fact, many Mashadi's are very strict about who their children can be friends with, or marry. (At my age, my parents would be happy with me marrying anyone, as long as it would be a Jew.)
And I was always a shy person. I never had large groups of friends. One of my sisters went away to college, and I followed in her footsteps. But I used to be more liberal when I was younger.
My shift to the right began in my early thirties. It started when I read Ayn Rand's Magnum Opus Atlas Shrugged, and got into full swing when I stumbled upon Chaim Ben Pesach on Manhattan Neighborhood Network public television.
Throughout this time, I found that I enjoyed writing. The story of how I decided to start blogging is for another post. But suffice it to say my parents think it's a waste of time, and that I should be focusing on more lucrative pursuits, along with finding a husband.
Correction: beverly Hills and surrounding areas has the largest Jewish Persian concentration and population.
And I only agree wtih at least one thing your parents are saying: finding a husband..all righteous people should be married and if they can, have children too.
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Dr. Dan, Chaim should read this entire thread when he can.
He can also contact these Synagogues to see what the procedure is to arrange a speaking engagement. There's also the option of making flyers to send to these Synagogues. He could call these places and let them know that he's mailing the flyers, and ask them to be put up where members can see them.
Or, he can take a trip out to Great Neck one Saturday and attend the services, and then try and get a few minutes with the rabbi and introduce himself personally and tell him about JTF. He could do this a few times, and meet with the rabbis of each of the Synagogues.
Another option would be to take out some ads in the Mashadi and Tehrani publications, that come out once ever two or three months. The main Mashadi publication is called The Megillah. Here's the website for the Mashadi Youth Committee, that publishes it:
http://www.mycweb.com/publications.asp
If you think of anything else, Dr. Dan, please post away.
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What would be the attitude of average Iranian Jewish parents and rabbis to see Iranian Jews marrying non-Iranian Jews? Is there severe condemnation, or is it something they disagree with but get over?
I just think it's ridiculous to be blunt, that the various sects and clans of Judaism are more interested in cutting themselves off from everybody and preserving their own uniqueness than uniting and realizing that they, and all of their brothers and sisters in the faith, are a despised minority throughout the world who must stick together and support their nation (Israel), regardless of how flawed it is now.
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What would be the attitude of average Iranian Jewish parents and rabbis to see Iranian Jews marrying non-Iranian Jews? Is there severe condemnation, or is it something they disagree with but get over?
I just think it's ridiculous to be blunt, that the various sects and clans of Judaism are more interested in cutting themselves off from everybody and preserving their own uniqueness than uniting and realizing that they, and all of their brothers and sisters in the faith, are a despised minority throughout the world who must stick together and support their nation (Israel), regardless of how flawed it is now.
According to an old Iranian saying, home baked bread is better than anything you would buy in a store. The reason the Mashadis (the Tehranis are a bit more mellow) favor marrying only in the community is because everyone knows everyone else. As my mother often says to me, "You know which families are known for being honest, which families are known not so honest, which families are known for being very religious, etc." So to answer your question, they wouldn't severely condemn marrying a non-Iranian Jew. They would definitely get over it. But their first choice would be a Mashadi.
I agree with the second part of your post. Us Jews need to focus on the things we have in common, rather than our differences.
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And I only agree wtih at least one thing your parents are saying: finding a husband..all righteous people should be married and if they can, have children too.
Unfortunately I've had terrible luck with dating/relationships. I'm convinced it will never happen for me.
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Dr. Dan, Chaim should read this entire thread when he can.
He can also contact these Synagogues to see what the procedure is to arrange a speaking engagement. There's also the option of making flyers to send to these Synagogues. He could call these places and let them know that he's mailing the flyers, and ask them to be put up where members can see them.
Or, he can take a trip out to Great Neck one Saturday and attend the services, and then try and get a few minutes with the rabbi and introduce himself personally and tell him about JTF. He could do this a few times, and meet with the rabbis of each of the Synagogues.
Another option would be to take out some ads in the Mashadi and Tehrani publications, that come out once ever two or three months. The main Mashadi publication is called The Megillah. Here's the website for the Mashadi Youth Committee, that publishes it:
http://www.mycweb.com/publications.asp
If you think of anything else, Dr. Dan, please post away.
correction...to travel there on a friday and not saturday :)
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What would be the attitude of average Iranian Jewish parents and rabbis to see Iranian Jews marrying non-Iranian Jews? Is there severe condemnation, or is it something they disagree with but get over?
I just think it's ridiculous to be blunt, that the various sects and clans of Judaism are more interested in cutting themselves off from everybody and preserving their own uniqueness than uniting and realizing that they, and all of their brothers and sisters in the faith, are a despised minority throughout the world who must stick together and support their nation (Israel), regardless of how flawed it is now.
CF, I agree wtih you...jews are jews..and righteous jews are righteous Jews.
but one coudl say the same about christians and americans...Black or white, we are all Americans..right? Some might disagree and only gravitate to the race they are more attracted to physically.
With cultures, despite the similarity in religion, some feel comfortable sticking to their own.
Persian Americans generally prefer to be with other persians as long as they are Jewish...others don't care.
My preference is Persian, but I don't rule out non-Persian Americans. Persians have had a similar upbringing as myself and i feel more comfortable with that...me and my future wife will be on the same page more often than not raising our children. But if any of children wanted to marry a Jew of a different culture and she was a wonderful person from a wonderful family, I would give my outmost blessing...
I can't speak for Mashadi Persian Jews, but I have learned that many, but not all, only stick with Mashadi Persians. Am I right about this, Lisa?
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Lisa, I remember a few months ago you started a thread in which you were asking for info regarding a possible move. I remember you were asking about apartment prices in various neighborhoods. I was wondering why you werent interested in moving to great neck. Maybe you will have many people with a similar background to yours over there.
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And I only agree wtih at least one thing your parents are saying: finding a husband..all righteous people should be married and if they can, have children too.
Unfortunately I've had terrible luck with dating/relationships. I'm convinced it will never happen for me.
Never say "Never", Lisa. You are a wonderful wonderful wonderful human being and there are plenty of guys out there who would love to be wtih someone like you...Please please please bite your tongue when you say that...
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Lisa, did you ever consider moving to great neck to be with fellow persian jews. Don't you think it might help the dating situation. I would deff look into this.
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Unfortunately I've had terrible luck with dating/relationships. I'm convinced it will never happen for me.
This is a terrible attitude to have. You are still young and you are nice-looking, and you have a TON to offer intellectually. You need to look to G-d for a mate, not the consensus of human opinion.
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CF, I agree wtih you...jews are jews..and righteous jews are righteous Jews.
but one coudl say the same about christians and americans...Black or white, we are all Americans..right? Some might disagree and only gravitate to the race they are more attracted to physically.
I would be open to marrying any woman who is a genuine Christian who has the attributes I need and who I find attractive (sorry if that looks shallow, but attraction is what distinguishes a relationship from a friendship).
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CF, I agree wtih you...jews are jews..and righteous jews are righteous Jews.
but one coudl say the same about christians and americans...Black or white, we are all Americans..right? Some might disagree and only gravitate to the race they are more attracted to physically.
I would be open to marrying any woman who is a genuine Christian who has the attributes I need and who I find attractive (sorry if that looks shallow, but attraction is what distinguishes a relationship from a friendship).
that's the right way to go about it..
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Slightly off-topic, but how do Persian Jews get along with Satmar in NYC? Aren't the Satmar so fanatical and cultic that they consider all non-Satmar Jews to be goyim?
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What would be the attitude of average Iranian Jewish parents and rabbis to see Iranian Jews marrying non-Iranian Jews? Is there severe condemnation, or is it something they disagree with but get over?
I just think it's ridiculous to be blunt, that the various sects and clans of Judaism are more interested in cutting themselves off from everybody and preserving their own uniqueness than uniting and realizing that they, and all of their brothers and sisters in the faith, are a despised minority throughout the world who must stick together and support their nation (Israel), regardless of how flawed it is now.
C.F.,
You are correct.
That type of attitude would be a condescending one where they would consider others to be inferior to them.
There are plenty of Sefardic-Ashkenazic Jews who are married to each other. Maybe some people have a problem with that.
It's a little disappointing that some like the mayor who I mentioned, didn't speak out about how Iran was a bigger threat than Iraq. He may have been able to have some influence due to his background. Instead, he probably supported the position of the establishment,which involves following the NWO agenda.
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Slightly off-topic, but how do Persian Jews get along with Satmar in NYC? Aren't the Satmar so fanatical and cultic that they consider all non-Satmar Jews to be goyim?
Well to be quite honest Chaimfan, Great neck is a very long ride away from the hellhole of williamsburg where the satmar cult is housed. Satmar consider all jews who are not satmar to be infidels. They absolutely detest sefardic jews. But to answer the question, I believe their is next to no interaction between the persian jews and the satmar anti semite bastards. Boro Park which is another neighborhood full of Chasidim is very far away from great neck as well. Besides, the satmar males are too busy patronizing prostitutes to bother with Persian Jews.
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Slightly off-topic, but how do Persian Jews get along with Satmar in NYC? Aren't the Satmar so fanatical and cultic that they consider all non-Satmar Jews to be goyim?
I have no clue...
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How many Persian Jews are left in the middle east?
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How many Persian Jews are left in the middle east?
Define Middle east
do you mean just Iran or Israel and Iran?
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How many Persian Jews are left in the middle east?
Define Middle east
do you mean just Iran or Israel and Iran?
In Iran
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Thanks for the kind words, Dr. Dan.
DownwithIslam. I grew up in Great Neck, and it's a beautiful place and very Jewish. But there are very few older singles there. In fact, it's extremely rare for any Iranian Jewish woman of my age to be unmarried, and to have no children. So to answer your question, first off, there are mostly families in Great Neck. Secondly, I've never hit it off with any Persian guys.
Also, you will never have any Mashadi guy coming up to a woman in a Synagogue or at a wedding or any party to strike up a conversation. If the men see someone they like, they'll have their parents talk to the girl's parents. Now I realize it's a respectful way of doing things. But on the other hand, I feel like a lab rat when my parents (or anyone else) tries to set me up with one of these guys. My father always says to me "Go out with him at least ten or fifteen times and you'll see that you'll get to like him." Frankly, I would rather not lead them on after one or two dates.
And one more thing about moving to Great Neck...I grew up there, and my childhood memories of the place were not happy ones being that I was so shy. It was only when I started Junior High that I came out of my shell and started to make friends.
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How many Persian Jews are left in the middle east?
Define Middle east
do you mean just Iran or Israel and Iran?
In Iran
I think a few thousand..not 100% sure. There is one Jew that serves in the Iranian "parlaiment"
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Thanks for the kind words, Dr. Dan.
DownwithIslam. I grew up in Great Neck, and it's a beautiful place and very Jewish. But there are very few older singles there. In fact, it's extremely rare for any Iranian Jewish woman of my age to be unmarried, and to have no children. So to answer your question, first off, there are mostly families in Great Neck. Secondly, I've never hit it off with any Persian guys.
Also, you will never have any Mashadi guy coming up to a woman in a Synagogue or at a wedding or any party to strike up a conversation. If the men see someone they like, they'll have their parents talk to the girl's parents. Now I realize it's a respectful way of doing things. But on the other hand, I feel like a lab rat when my parents (or anyone else) tries to set me up with one of these guys. My father always says to me "Go out with him at least ten or fifteen times and you'll see that you'll get to like him." Frankly, I would rather not lead them on after one or two dates.
And one more thing about moving to Great Neck...I grew up there, and my childhood memories of the place were not happy ones being that I was so shy. It was only when I started Junior High that I came out of my shell and started to make friends.
i think your dad is right...it takes more than 2 dates for someone to grow on you...you should be giving some of these guys more of a chance.
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Persian Jews are similar to Bukharin and Kavkazi Jews?
We are similar except for language and a few traditions. I have heard that the Georgian (kavkazi Jews) are very similar in their upbringing. I have never met a Kavkazi though.
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Persian Jews are similar to Bukharin and Kavkazi Jews?
We are similar except for language and a few traditions. I have heard that the Georgian (kavkazi Jews) are very similar in their upbringing. I have never met a Kavkazi though.
by Kavkazi i meant Jews from Azerbaijan not Georgia
but the language between Bukharin, Kavkazi/mountain, and Persian Jews its Farsi dialect
It is...But kavkazi = Azeri? what do they call the Georgian Jews?
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From my experience no one in my family has ever even mentioned the Satmars. Once again, most Iranian Jews practice their religion moderately. They're skeptical of anything seemingly "extreme."
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Persian Jews are similar to Bukharin and Kavkazi Jews?
We are similar except for language and a few traditions. I have heard that the Georgian (kavkazi Jews) are very similar in their upbringing. I have never met a Kavkazi though.
by Kavkazi i meant Jews from Azerbaijan not Georgia
but the language between Bukharin, Kavkazi/mountain, and Persian Jews its Farsi dialect
It is...But kavkazi = Azeri? what do they call the Georgian Jews?
Georgian Jews are called Gruzinskie and their language is not Farsi
akhaa
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Lisa...Chaim is interested...where do we start?
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Let me send him a link to this thread, and we'll see.
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From my experience no one in my family has ever even mentioned the Satmars. In fact, my father dislikes Chasidic Jews.
Even the good ones like the Lubavitch?
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Even the good ones like the Lubavitch?
My father is not familiar with the different sects of Chasidic Jews. I'm sure if he met some Lubavitchas and saw that they were good people, he would like them. But for whatever reason, he has not had good experiences with some of them.
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What kinds of Lubavitch then is he familiar with?
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PS Lisa, please post a pithy and acerbic parting message to our beloved Anus-T (now known as iratollah). :)
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PS Lisa, please post a pithy and acerbic parting message to our beloved Anus-T (now known as iratollah). Smiley
I'm not convinced it's Anus-T. The style of writing is not the same. Besides which, he's already banned, and I would rather not give him the extra attention. So if you want, why don't you make a humorous but clean poll about him?
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What kinds of Lubavitch then is he familiar with?
All my father knows of is Jews with black hats, black suits, and long sideburns. I don't think he even knows what a Lubavitcha is.
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PS Lisa, please post a pithy and acerbic parting message to our beloved Anus-T (now known as iratollah). Smiley
I'm not convinced it's Anus-T. The style of writing is not the same. Besides which, he's already banned, and I would rather not give him the extra attention. So if you want, why don't you make a humorous but clean poll about him?
So who do you think this creature was? Do you agree with my original theory that it was a Muslim Nazi, or do you think it is someone from the dog pound?
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So who do you think this creature was? Do you agree with my original theory that it was a Muslim Nazi, or do you think it is someone from the dog pound?
I have no idea.
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Paulette had another theory we should have considered earlier. She believes it is a white supremacist (i.e. a Whorefronter). I guess it's a good guess. We have certainly had Whorefront trolls before who knew Hebrew and some Jewish expressions (like Din Rodent). They are so obsessed with Judaism that they devote hours upon hours of study to this religion--all because they want to murder us.
Perhaps the fact that he mentioned white supremacists often in his few posts here was a big hint, hint... :o ::)
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From my experience no one in my family has ever even mentioned the Satmars.
Even the good ones like the Lubavitch?
The Persian Jews I know who are have become more religious or more spiritual due to Kabbalah love Chabad...Persian Jews love other Jews who believe in ahavat yisrael. However..those who are not so traditional, respect the Lubovitch, but stay clear at the same time of becoming like them...it all depends.
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I absolutely love the Persian Jews.