JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Daniel on October 12, 2010, 11:55:34 AM
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The previous thread was just locked. But I did want to respond to a couple of points that Ashe Dina made in the previous thread:
First off, I don't believe that G-d made this rule, I believe that it was man who made it, but that opens up a whole other jar of worms which we'll save for another discussion.
Secondly, you call me weak and a wuss. I am not weak. The fact that I can stand up to all of you without allowing any of you to brainwash me to your viewpoints indicates that I am strong and not easily swayed. Toni Cali is an example of someone who was extremely weak and a real wuss since he is someone who had gay friends and initially didn't have a problem with it. He then allowed a voice on the computer and words on a screen to allow me to change his views on homosexuality and decided to dismiss his gay friends because he allowed himself to be swayed by JTF. That is an example of a real weak wuss who allowed himself to be brainwashed. I am exhibiting the exact opposite traits. I am standing up to all of you and not allowing myself to brainwashed by any of you. I am holding firm to my values and beliefs in the face of everyone who is against me. That is an example of someone who is strong with integrity!
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Strong and with integrity means having an open mind and choosing right from wrong from what a common view and an opposing view might state. Believing that your view is right and everybody else is wrong is a wuss thing to do. And yes, there are people on this side of the fence who do that also.
If you want honest discussions and debate, open your mind and don't dismiss just because it comes from right wingers. There are a lot of people here who believed like you did at one point and with the experience of life realize that not all the things you come from and believe are necessarily correct.
So again, open your mind, choose right from wrong ask lots of questions and opposing views..just let the information flow.
The previous thread was just locked. But I did want to respond to a couple of points that Ashe Dina made in the previous thread:
First off, I don't believe that G-d made this rule, I believe that it was man who made it, but that opens up a whole other jar of worms which we'll save for another discussion.
Secondly, you call me weak and a wuss. I am not weak. The fact that I can stand up to all of you without allowing any of you to brainwash me to your viewpoints indicates that I am strong and not easily swayed. Toni Cali is an example of someone who was extremely weak and a real wuss since he is someone who had gay friends and initially didn't have a problem with it. He then allowed a voice on the computer and words on a screen to allow me to change his views on homosexuality and decided to dismiss his gay friends because he allowed himself to be swayed by JTF. That is an example of a real weak wuss who allowed himself to be brainwashed. I am exhibiting the exact opposite traits. I am standing up to all of you and not allowing myself to brainwashed by any of you. I am holding firm to my values and beliefs in the face of everyone who is against me. That is an example of someone who is strong with integrity!
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I am standing up to all of you and not allowing myself to brainwashed by any of you.
Excuse me, I'm not trying to "brainwash" you. I replied to you with courtesy and understanding, so I don't like your offensive tone. You could try to understand the others' points of view. You said today you are still a leftist, well indeed you are, your reaction here is typical of leftists who are so convinced that they are on the right side, that they are the good guys, and who turn a deaf ear to anything that contradicts their prejudices...
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Daniel, I asked you to define the term you were using. Stop reading anything else into it. I'm giving you a fair chance to explain yourself. So stop the cowardly routine and accusations and deal with it please. What do you mean by homophobia and how are you equating that with antisemitism.
Or do your views not require explanation? Your views are above justification or explanation?
I'm still waiting for an intelligent response.
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Daniel, now you are calling G-d a BRAINWASHING entity.
You are a wuss, you are not standing up to anyone, but opposing G-d, this is YOUR issue. It is arrogance that would cause you to stand up to g-d without seeing that there WILL be reprecutions.
You need to repent.
G-d made the rules, please stop trying to be a fascist about your non-belief, and pushing moral people to be immoral.
Psalms: 14;1
א לַמְנַצֵּחַ, לְדָוִד:
אָמַר נָבָל בְּלִבּוֹ, אֵין אֱלֹהִים;
הִשְׁחִיתוּ, הִתְעִיבוּ עֲלִילָה-- אֵין עֹשֵׂה-טוֹב. 1 For the Leader. [A Psalm] of David. {N}
The fool hath said in his heart: 'There is no God'; {N}
they have dealt corruptly, they have done abominably; there is none that doeth good.
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The fact that I can stand up to all of you without allowing any of you to brainwash me to your viewpoints indicates that I am strong and not easily swayed.
G-d is a 'brainwasher' in your opinion. I gave you the word of G-D on a RELIGIOUS forum, now you toy with G-d.
You just need to repent. You have humbled yourself to MAN. And are calling G-d the sick one.
Sickening.
you are like a wave, tossed to and fro, with no foundation. Poor thing.
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So Daniel, if you don't believe that the labeling of homosexuality as an abomination came from G-d, who do you think it came from? Who do you think wrote it, and why? Do you believe the written and Oral Torahs were written by G-d, or by men? If you believe they were written by men, what do you think their rationale was?
Also, if I can get nosy here, what in your view, makes you a Jew, aside from being born of a Jewish mother?
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Daniel are you Tony Cali?
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all this ganging up on Daniel....i'm sure you love the attention...
I want to add another point, do you believe Sodom and Gemorrah was a real place? What do you think happened there? Did you know something like that happened in Pompeii and coincidently possibly for the same reason?
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all this ganging up on Daniel....i'm sure you love the attention...
I want to add another point, do you believe Sodom and Gemorrah was a real place? What do you think happened there? Did you know something like that happened in Pompeii and coincidently possibly for the same reason?
Actually, it is Daniel that 'ganged up' on me. And, yes, it would appear that we are ganging up on him, but that is a left wing Bolshevik tactic, to appear as the oppressed, when it is always the oppsite, THEY are the OPPRESSOR.
He is actually the one that is trespassing, bullying and seeking to brainwash US- because we already DO believe in G-d and dont believe that a loving g-d would lead people into disaster, which is why he gave us rules, Daniel is seeking to "CHANGE" this, like Obama.
I, of most people have seen FIRST HAND the evil that comes from homosexuality, having had a 'gay' uncle who said that the 'gay' life is the most miserable, because it is not normal, my uncles words and my 2 very good friends.
But, this G-d hating individual, Daniel thinks that G-d is a "BRAINWASHER".
:thumbsdown:
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The REAL Commie Brainwashing, which Daniel is trying to impose here:
1963 COMMUNIST GOALS FOR AMERICA
EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FL IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Entered into the Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35 ._1. on Thursday, January 10, 1963
Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
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http://neprimer.com/1963ComGoals.htm
So, dont tell me you are not brainwashed Daniel, you are a wuss that cowers to the words of EVIL men-Marx and Engels who wrote what YOU preach, Daniel;
'27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch." [i.e. destroy G-d's vision for his children.]
-28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."
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Please ignore this troll.. It is obvious he is using a tactic to claim he is the strong one because he is defending the abominable behavior. I think he is just looking for attention. I would like this troll to go away and find a place where his opinions are welcome, like in a gay bar or at a gay shame parade.
Members have tried to rebuke him for his misguided ways. Many of us here have gone through times when we had liberal feelings, heck I was a hippie for almost 15 years before I did teshuva... But I accept that I erred in my youth, and now I am on the correct path... But Daniel is making excuses for his sin, and when people do this, they have a very very slim chance of ever returning.
At a certain point a Jew must just walk away and say, "I tried rebuking" and he did not listen.
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While I disagree with his queer sympathies, I don't see him as a troll.
Maybe he's young. Maybe he's trying to come out of the closet.
C'mon, be nice, let's make it warm and comfortable for the boy to come out of the closet.
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While I disagree with his queer sympathies, I don't see him as a troll.
Maybe he's young. Maybe he's trying to come out of the closet.
C'mon, be nice, let's make it warm and comfortable for the boy to come out of the closet.
I certainly try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Even in my most liberal and 'open-minded' phase of life did I ever imply that religious Jews were Nazis. I never thought that the gay lifestyle was acceptable even though I dealt with many, many homosexuals. There always was a part of me which knew right from wrong. I did get involved with illegal drugs and people who were low-lifes... But I made Teshuva after moving away from all that, settling down, and studying Torah.
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(AsheDina is a believer in God and spiritual, not 'religious', BTW. I didnt grow up RELIGIOUS, I grew up to believe in the words of G-d and have his spirit/thoughts/words in my heart. Just an FYI, because of the false accusation brought here by Daniel the moonbat.)
Ezekiel 33: 3,4 & 5
ג וְרָאָה אֶת-הַחֶרֶב, בָּאָה עַל-הָאָרֶץ; וְתָקַע בַּשּׁוֹפָר, וְהִזְהִיר אֶת-הָעָם. 3
if, when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the horn, and warn the people;
ד וְשָׁמַע הַשֹּׁמֵעַ אֶת-קוֹל הַשּׁוֹפָר, וְלֹא נִזְהָר, וַתָּבוֹא חֶרֶב, וַתִּקָּחֵהוּ--דָּמוֹ, בְּרֹאשׁוֹ יִהְיֶה. 4
then whosoever heareth the sound of the horn, and taketh not warning, if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head;
ה אֵת קוֹל הַשּׁוֹפָר שָׁמַע וְלֹא נִזְהָר, דָּמוֹ בּוֹ יִהְיֶה: וְהוּא נִזְהָר, נַפְשׁוֹ מִלֵּט. 5
he heard the sound of the horn, and took not warning, his blood shall be upon him; whereas if he had taken warning, he would have delivered his soul.
HaShem brought destruction to people, our people when WE disobeyed- it is not us that is in trouble for rebuking a fellow Jew that is hard-hearted.
Muman;
The NAZIS are the 'gays' that hate G-d and pretend that there is no G-d. They are the ones behind the Marxist-NAZI PUSH in schools to make little boys luv men and little girls luv women, leaving what is natural, behind.
I have not EVER harmed a 'gay'.
I, however have seen this evil lifestyle and what it has done to people I care deeply for, and to not tell people the TRUTH of G-ds words, is to send them to hell on earth and make oneself an accessory to his/her abomination.
You can stand for right without doing wrong.
I dont give a damn if this moonbat, Daniel calls us NAZIS, he is projecting that which is in his own head & heart.
Most regimes of genocide and murder are ANTI-G-d, NOT Pro-G-d.
So, he is only following the brainwashing of the liberal Maxists and projecting his natural feelings of guilt on US.
I am the most UN-religious person there is, however, G-ds words are Brainwashing? Sure... I will follow the words that G-d says BEFORE some little person who caves into the whims of Commie indoctrination.
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Daniel, now you are calling G-d a BRAINWASHING entity.
You are a wuss, you are not standing up to anyone, but opposing G-d, this is YOUR issue. It is arrogance that would cause you to stand up to g-d without seeing that there WILL be reprecutions.
You need to repent.
G-d made the rules, please stop trying to be a fascist about your non-belief, and pushing moral people to be immoral.
Psalms: 14;1
א לַמְנַצֵּחַ, לְדָוִד:
אָמַר נָבָל בְּלִבּוֹ, אֵין אֱלֹהִים;
הִשְׁחִיתוּ, הִתְעִיבוּ עֲלִילָה-- אֵין עֹשֵׂה-טוֹב. 1 For the Leader. [A Psalm] of David. {N}
The fool hath said in his heart: 'There is no G-d'; {N}
they have dealt corruptly, they have done abominably; there is none that doeth good.
Psalms was written by David, a man, not by god.
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Daniel, now you are calling G-d a BRAINWASHING entity.
You are a wuss, you are not standing up to anyone, but opposing G-d, this is YOUR issue. It is arrogance that would cause you to stand up to g-d without seeing that there WILL be reprecutions.
You need to repent.
G-d made the rules, please stop trying to be a fascist about your non-belief, and pushing moral people to be immoral.
Psalms: 14;1
א לַמְנַצֵּחַ, לְדָוִד:
אָמַר נָבָל בְּלִבּוֹ, אֵין אֱלֹהִים;
הִשְׁחִיתוּ, הִתְעִיבוּ עֲלִילָה-- אֵין עֹשֵׂה-טוֹב. 1 For the Leader. [A Psalm] of David. {N}
The fool hath said in his heart: 'There is no G-d'; {N}
they have dealt corruptly, they have done abominably; there is none that doeth good.
Psalms was written by David, a man, not by G-d.
David was a Prophet of Hashem, his words are as close to Hashem as the Jewish people have... King David is the progenitor of the Moshiach.
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So, also, what is Kahainst "liberal?" Another "Jew" that believes G-d is some made up concept while there ARE some of us here trying to get CLOSE to HaShem.
Go to another forum where you all can have your Anti-G-d love fest.
I certainly do NOT agree with your Commie ways.
BTW: Kahane was NO Liberal. So, you also are a WALKING contradiction.
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Daniel, now you are calling G-d a BRAINWASHING entity.
You are a wuss, you are not standing up to anyone, but opposing G-d, this is YOUR issue. It is arrogance that would cause you to stand up to g-d without seeing that there WILL be reprecutions.
You need to repent.
G-d made the rules, please stop trying to be a fascist about your non-belief, and pushing moral people to be immoral.
Psalms: 14;1
א לַמְנַצֵּחַ, לְדָוִד:
אָמַר נָבָל בְּלִבּוֹ, אֵין אֱלֹהִים;
הִשְׁחִיתוּ, הִתְעִיבוּ עֲלִילָה-- אֵין עֹשֵׂה-טוֹב. 1 For the Leader. [A Psalm] of David. {N}
The fool hath said in his heart: 'There is no G-d'; {N}
they have dealt corruptly, they have done abominably; there is none that doeth good.
Psalms was written by David, a man, not by G-d.
David was a Prophet of Hashem, his words are as close to Hashem as the Jewish people have... King David is the progenitor of the Moshiach.
While on that subject, David was QUICK to repent, unilke some of you, you know who..
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Now, King David was a liar and a brainwasher...
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I suppose that Isaiah was having a manic high in need of Thorazine in LIBERAL and Daniels world views, since Torah and Tanakh are just men and they were delusional, brainwashed by G-d...
You all asked if there was a 'satan', well here is your answer by the attacks of these 2 ill-informed anti-God "Jews" against G-ds words, and therefore more important than King David, Isaiah, in ARROGANCE.
ְ
Isaiah Chapter 41 יְשַׁעְיָהוּ
א הַחֲרִישׁוּ אֵלַי אִיִּים, וּלְאֻמִּים יַחֲלִיפוּ כֹחַ; יִגְּשׁוּ אָז יְדַבֵּרוּ, יַחְדָּו לַמִּשְׁפָּט נִקְרָבָה. 1
Keep silence before Me, O islands, and let the peoples renew their strength; let them draw near, then let them speak; let us come near together to judgment.
ב מִי הֵעִיר מִמִּזְרָח, צֶדֶק יִקְרָאֵהוּ לְרַגְלוֹ; יִתֵּן לְפָנָיו גּוֹיִם, וּמְלָכִים יַרְדְּ--יִתֵּן כֶּעָפָר חַרְבּוֹ, כְּקַשׁ נִדָּף קַשְׁתּוֹ. 2
Who hath raised up one from the east, at whose steps victory attendeth? He giveth nations before him, and maketh him rule over kings; his sword maketh them as the dust, his bow as the driven stubble.
ג יִרְדְּפֵם, יַעֲבוֹר שָׁלוֹם; אֹרַח בְּרַגְלָיו, לֹא יָבוֹא. 3
He pursueth them, and passeth on safely; the way with his feet he treadeth not.
ד מִי-פָעַל וְעָשָׂה, קֹרֵא הַדֹּרוֹת מֵרֹאשׁ: אֲנִי יְהוָה רִאשׁוֹן, וְאֶת-אַחֲרֹנִים אֲנִי-הוּא. 4
Who hath wrought and done it? He that called the generations from the beginning. I, the LORD, who am the first, and with the last am the same.
ה רָאוּ אִיִּים וְיִרָאוּ, קְצוֹת הָאָרֶץ יֶחֱרָדוּ; קָרְבוּ, וַיֶּאֱתָיוּן. 5
The isles saw, and feared; the ends of the earth trembled; they drew near, and came.
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Now, King David was a liar and a brainwasher...
keep beatin' the strawman,
sure David was really smart and all, but he was not God.
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Now, King David was a liar and a brainwasher...
keep beatin' the strawman,
sure David was really smart and all, but he was not G-d.
Is there any reason why YOU also have sabotaged me here?? Give me a good reason.
Kahanist, You are anti-G-d. OK? DEAL WITH IT.
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King David was more righteous than anybody on this forum.
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BTW:
Since you 2 have taken it upon yourselves to attack G-d, the Torah, the Tanackh, I will take the time to tell you what cowardly little kitty-cats you BOTH ARE.
YOU ARE WEAK. You attack like the oppressors you are.
We have words to live by, yet "KahanistLiberal" says it is a 'straw-man argument', and sh*ts all over everyones beliefs here, on a RELIGIOUS & spiritual forum.
So, it IS sabotage and
2 weeks ago, I was angry at another member for going after the Christians on this forum. BUT, at least, that other young man has the GUTTS to stand up and call what is right; right.
Unlike "KahanistLiberal" & "Daniel", who use the TYPICAL left wing rhetoric that the INSPIRED word of G-d is just a 'crutch'- in otherwords, COMMUNIST INDOCTRINATION. Which NOBODY here agrees with.
It is HURTFUL when someone that is fascistic LAUGHS at our belifs and says 'STRAWMAN'
Without further adieu;
F*CK BOTH OF YOU. YOU SUCK.
You worry about Jew hate, when it is YOU that causes it with your Commie, left wing mindset.
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King David was more righteous than anybody on this forum.
A strong case can even be made that King David was more righteous than anyone living today.
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Sorry Muman,
I don't remember Daniel's exact words, but there are a handful on this forum that behave in a fascist manner. This doesn't have anything to do with homosexuality, but it's related to what some member's on this forum consider civilized speech. I don't think Daniel is a troll, he just does not agree. Attacking him like everyone is doing is not helping matters since he was attacked first--for his opinion. Most of this talk about homosexuality is a waste of time anyway. I'm surprised more people here do not defend Daniel's right to say whatever he wants as long as he can back up what he is saying. This is like burning books vs. repudiating their contents
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Libo and Daniel;
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/TwoDragQueens.jpg)
:guitar: :guitar: :love: :love: :guitar: :guitar:
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The New JTF With "Kahanist Libo" and Danny Boy in charge:
(http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200903/r352965_1620811.jpg)
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AsheDina,
How does making these kind of contrasts help unite people to support Israel and the continued survival of Judea and Samaria?
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Sorry Muman,
I don't remember Daniel's exact words, but there are a handful on this forum that behave in a fascist manner. This doesn't have anything to do with homosexuality, but it's related to what some member's on this forum consider civilized speech. I don't think Daniel is a troll, he just does not agree. Attacking him like everyone is doing is not helping matters since he was attacked first--for his opinion. Most of this talk about homosexuality is a waste of time anyway. I'm surprised more people here do not defend Daniel's right to say whatever he wants as long as he can back up what he is saying. This is like burning books vs. repudiating their contents
The problem is, he can't back them up, or at least chooses not to. To critique his comments and point out they are baseless and accusatory is not an "attack." Moreover, when he doesn't back them up but he swipes at every member of the forum, how can you not expect angry or harsh response when people feel attacked? You are painting Daniel as some kind of victim here, but he's a big boy JTFe, and I don't see why he can't debate like everyone else.
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The New Knesset With Danny And Libby:
(http://www.dragdocumentary.com/images/the-girls.jpg)
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BTW:
Since you 2 have taken it upon yourselves to attack G-d, the Torah, the Tanackh, I will take the time to tell you what cowardly little kitty-cats you BOTH ARE.
YOU ARE WEAK. You attack like the oppressors you are.
We have words to live by, yet "KahanistLiberal" says it is a 'straw-man argument', and sh*ts all over everyones beliefs here, on a RELIGIOUS & spiritual forum.
So, it IS sabotage and
2 weeks ago, I was angry at another member for going after the Christians on this forum. BUT, at least, that other young man has the GUTTS to stand up and call what is right; right.
Unlike "KahanistLiberal" & "Daniel", who use the TYPICAL left wing rhetoric that the INSPIRED word of G-d is just a 'crutch'- in otherwords, COMMUNIST INDOCTRINATION. Which NOBODY here agrees with.
It is HURTFUL when someone that is fascistic LAUGHS at our belifs and says 'STRAWMAN'
Without further adieu;
F*CK BOTH OF YOU. YOU SUCK.
You worry about Jew hate, when it is YOU that causes it with your Commie, left wing mindset.
wow.. lets look at how wikipedia defines a strawman:
The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:
Person A has position X.
Person B disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially-similar position Y. Thus, Y is a resulting distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:
Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.[1]
Quoting an opponent's words out of context – i.e. choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's actual intentions (see contextomy and quote mining).[2]
Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments – thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[1]
Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.
Person B attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious, because attacking a distorted version of a position fails to constitute an attack on the actual position.
i said that king david was a man, as eb22 said, more righteous than anyone living today, but still a man
you said that i claim he is a brainwasher and proceeded to calling us commies and fascists who hate god.
yeah, make a strawman argument and throw in a little ad-hominem attack in there too.
and if thats not enough, start throwing some weird pictures poking fun at us with no substance.
classy
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KWBRT,
I dont think he called everyone a nazi. And he was speaking from his experience in the world from what he said. I think most of us dont agree with JTF on EVERY single point, but we should be united on a few core issues. I do not consider homosexuality a deal breaker for me. I do consider the kind of disgusting responses put out by a very lone few--that can be a deal breaker. That is probably the biggest deal breaker
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you are just sabotaging me.
Thats what YOU and your BFF, Danny have done. When I go after someone, I meet them in the thread, I dont make other threads and point out other members.
I work hard and spend a lot of money to uplift my brothers and sisters in Israel, what do you do sh*thead?
You all want to take up for the homos against HaShem, I have a right to defend the truth and fight for JEWS that are SERIOUS and dont like their beliefs sh*t on.
You show you are cowardly by attacking a woman.
AND, I AM a lady and a woman.
WEAK she-boy.
If I have a thread that is opened up about me, because your BF cannot IM me, then he and you get what you get, I am a fighter, so DEAL with it.
(http://digitalalex.uh-hosting.co.uk/jaysbirth/images/DSCF0073.jpg)
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OK people, let's all calm down. I'm locking this thread for now.
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Please ignore this troll.. It is obvious he is using a tactic to claim he is the strong one because he is defending the abominable behavior. I think he is just looking for attention. I would like this troll to go away and find a place where his opinions are welcome, like in a gay bar or at a gay shame parade.
Members have tried to rebuke him for his misguided ways. Many of us here have gone through times when we had liberal feelings, heck I was a hippie for almost 15 years before I did teshuva... But I accept that I erred in my youth, and now I am on the correct path... But Daniel is making excuses for his sin, and when people do this, they have a very very slim chance of ever returning.
At a certain point a Jew must just walk away and say, "I tried rebuking" and he did not listen.
Boy that's one dedicated troll :::D He has been a member here since August 2006.. He was quite active back then with the same opinions he has now...