JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rubystars on November 26, 2010, 02:08:13 AM
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Chaim has made his position on this very clear:
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,12723.msg135999.html#msg135999
It's sad that people on here either don't listen to Chaim or don't show enough respect to honor his wishes.
"To post threads that insult Catholics makes no sense. This is playing into the hands of our enemies."
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I agree. I have respect for all religions except Islam which has no respect for any non-Islamic religion.
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I agree,i am a non believer jew but i have deep respect for every religion expect pisslam.Realy there are many beautiful things in the catholic sect like the colorful masses albeit i don't like the current pope.
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
What? Are you insane? Catholics are way better than their luthern counterparts.And don't forget who were the first to fight pisslam in europe and hitler.Your post is reported.
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
Who are you to tell Catholics that they are not good Catholics just because they don't follow what the pope says?
People have minds of their own so they will not agree with everything the pope says because they will view somethings he says as wrong and not want to follow them.
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No one should attack Catholic members. But Ruby, the Pope and his Vatican clique are enemies to me. End of story. If my stance is unacceptable, I will leave JTF.
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No one should attack Catholic members. But Ruby, the Pope and his Vatican clique are enemies to me. End of story. If my stance is unacceptable, I will leave JTF.
I have many catholic friends,none of them agree with the pope.That's must mean something and i suspect the pope is not true catholic but a NWO agent.
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
What? Are you insane? Catholics are way better than their luthern counterparts.And don't forget who were the first to fight pisslam in europe and hitler.Your post is reported.
Who the hell do you think you are? I am a moderator...
You seem to know little about history newbie...
The Catholics were the ones who carried out mass executions of Jews during the Crusades and during the Inquisitions... Maybe you can learn a little something about history...
http://www.milknhoney.co.il/torah/hachodesh_blood_libel.html
http://www.chabad.org/calendar/view/day_cdo/aid/384822/jewish/Troyes-Jews-Burned-at-Stake.htm
Troyes Jews Burned at Stake (1288)
On the 20th of Iyar in 1288, thirteen Jews in Troyes, France, were burned at the stake by the Inquisition. They were accused, in a blood libel, of the supposed murder of a Christian child. The thirteen Jews were chosen from among the richer members of the community.
Jews were also killed in a blood libel in Neuchatel, Switzerland, on this date.
http://www.chabad.org/calendar/view/day_cdo/aid/387132/jewish/The-Spanish-Inquisition.htm
The Spanish Inquisition (1481)
The Inquisition was created in the twelfth century to find "Christian heretics" who would be punished or killed. Eventually, Jews too were open to such charges of heresy, simply for being Jewish; and torture was routinely used to extract "confessions." Over the years, the inquisition, which operated with Papal consent, spread to many countries.
In 1481 the Inquisition began to function in Spain to expose the secret Jews, known as the Anusim or Marranos. This Inquisition was anti-Jewish more than in any previous countries. The first public sentencing and burning alive of six marrano men and one woman by the Spanish Inquisition was held on this date in Seville in Southern Spain.
Following the start of the Spanish Inquisition many Jews fled Spain (see "Today in Jewish History" for Sivan 4).
http://www.chabad.org/calendar/view/day_cdo/aid/297276/jewish/Spanish-Expulsion.htm
The Spanish Expulsion (1492)
The Jews of Spain were expelled by King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella on the 9th of Av of 1492, terminating many centuries of flourishing Jewish life in that country.
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http://www.aish.com/jl/h/48951681.html
The Spanish Inquisition
The Inquisition we are going to cover now is the Spanish Inquisition, which began officially by papal bull issued by Pope Sixtus IV on November 1, 1478.
(We should note, however, that the very first Inquisition actually took place in 1233 under orders from Pope Gregory IX to combat a group of French-Christian heretics called "Albigenses." This first Inquisition was relatively mild and did not as a rule sentence people to death. Not so the Spanish Inquisition which was directed against Jewish heretics.)
Unlike its earlier version, the Spanish Inquisition sought to punish Jews who had converted to Christianity but were not really "sincere" in their conversions.
There is a great deal of irony in this. First you tell people they have to convert or die, then, when they do convert, you decide to kill them anyway because their conversions are not "sincere."
There was another reason for the Inquisition, which had little to do with the sincerity of conversions. Once Jews converted to Christianity they had an open access to the playing field, economically and politically. And, of course, they prospered mightily. That engendered a lot of hostility from the Christians ― a pattern we have seen in Jewish history ever since the enslavement of the Israelites by the Egyptians.
The Christians began to call converted Jews "New Christians" to distinguish them from the "Old Christians" i.e. themselves. Derogatorily, Jewish converts to Christianity were called converses meaning "converts," or worse yet marranos, meaning "pigs."
The basic accusation was that these Jews were not real converts to Christianity ― they were secretly practicing Judaism. That was certainly often the case. There were large numbers of Jews who would be outwardly Christian but who would continue to practice Judaism secretly.
Until this day, there exist Christian communities with clear Jewish roots dating back to this time. There are people in the United States (in New Mexico and Arizona) as well as in South and Central America, who are descended from Spanish or Portuguese settlers, and who have strange customs they cannot explain. For example, even though they are Catholics, on Friday night they go down to the cellar to light candles. They don't know the origins of the custom, but they do it. These people are clearly descended from Jews who pretended to be Christians and yet were practicing Jewish rituals in secret.
The job of the Inquisition was to find such people, torture them until they admitted their "crime," and then kill them.
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
What? Are you insane? Catholics are way better than their luthern counterparts.And don't forget who were the first to fight pisslam in europe and hitler.Your post is reported.
Who the hell do you think you are? I am a moderator...
You seem to know little about history newbie...
The Catholics were the ones who carried out mass executions of Jews during the Crusades and during the Inquisitions... Maybe you can learn a little something about history...
http://www.milknhoney.co.il/torah/hachodesh_blood_libel.html
http://www.chabad.org/calendar/view/day_cdo/aid/384822/jewish/Troyes-Jews-Burned-at-Stake.htm
Troyes Jews Burned at Stake (1288)
On the 20th of Iyar in 1288, thirteen Jews in Troyes, France, were burned at the stake by the Inquisition. They were accused, in a blood libel, of the supposed murder of a Christian child. The thirteen Jews were chosen from among the richer members of the community.
Jews were also killed in a blood libel in Neuchatel, Switzerland, on this date.
http://www.chabad.org/calendar/view/day_cdo/aid/387132/jewish/The-Spanish-Inquisition.htm
The Spanish Inquisition (1481)
The Inquisition was created in the twelfth century to find "Christian heretics" who would be punished or killed. Eventually, Jews too were open to such charges of heresy, simply for being Jewish; and torture was routinely used to extract "confessions." Over the years, the inquisition, which operated with Papal consent, spread to many countries.
In 1481 the Inquisition began to function in Spain to expose the secret Jews, known as the Anusim or Marranos. This Inquisition was anti-Jewish more than in any previous countries. The first public sentencing and burning alive of six marrano men and one woman by the Spanish Inquisition was held on this date in Seville in Southern Spain.
Following the start of the Spanish Inquisition many Jews fled Spain (see "Today in Jewish History" for Sivan 4).
http://www.chabad.org/calendar/view/day_cdo/aid/297276/jewish/Spanish-Expulsion.htm
The Spanish Expulsion (1492)
The Jews of Spain were expelled by King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella on the 9th of Av of 1492, terminating many centuries of flourishing Jewish life in that country.
Well,my mark in history is 100 so who are you to say i don not know history? I have the right to state my opinion Mr. Moderator and even chaim said that catholic bashing is unnecessary.According to your logic we should hate christians,pagan,assyrians,kurds,zoroastrians etc beacuse of the past regardless of the fact that today they are our greatests allies against islam.
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Let me repeat that I believe that there are Catholics who are born into the religion and they have a choice, a free will, to determine what they will follow. I have many friends who were born Catholic and yet rejected the faith because they found it to be the wrong faith. I even supported a man for seven years who was an Irish Catholic man, who had rejected his faith...
Every man is capable of determining what he believes once he reaches the age of adulthood. I will never accept a religion which violates so many of the tenets of my religion, and has risen its hand against my people again and again.
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I did not bash Catholics. I simply said I do not forgive the institution of the Church... And I proceeded to provide reasons why I do not forgive the Church.
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Who do you consider to be 'Our' greatest allies amongst those you listed?
You said you are not religious, which is sad to see.... But the Jewish belief is that we need nobody else besides our faith in G-d. Our Torah tells us to never rely on other nations because most of the time they will disappoint us.
The only way the Jewish people will survive is with absolute faith in Hashem alone, not in the strength of the nations.
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Let me repeat that I believe that there are Catholics who are born into the religion and they have a choice, a free will, to determine what they will follow. I have many friends who were born Catholic and yet rejected the faith because they found it to be the wrong faith. I even supported a man for seven years who was an Irish Catholic man, who had rejected his faith...
Every man is capable of determining what he believes once he reaches the age of adulthood. I will never accept a religion which violates so many of the tenets of my religion, and has risen its hand against my people again and again.
True,every person have free will.Not every catholic agree with the pope and that still does not make him any less catholic so your generalization of cathjolic and the catholic church is realy out of place.Especially in a forum that contain both jews and non jews.
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
Who are you to tell Catholics that they are not good Catholics just because they don't follow what the pope says?
People have minds of their own so they will not agree with everything the pope says because they will view somethings he says as wrong and not want to follow them.
A part of the Catholic belief is that the Pope is the mouthpiece of their gods. How can you believe in a religion which one of the basic tenets is that the Pope is infallible, and yet call yourself someone who believes in that religion?
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Who do you consider to be 'Our' greatest allies amongst those you listed?
You said you are not religious, which is sad to see.... But the Jewish belief is that we need nobody else besides our faith in G-d. Our Torah tells us to never rely on other nations because most of the time they will disappoint us.
The only way the Jewish people will survive is with absolute faith in Hashem alone, not in the strength of the nations.
Our greatest allies are the zoroastrians,indu and anti muslim christians.The torah is very nice but it is unrealistic to pursue an isloationist policy in modern times.Wem need allies against muslim scum and we need every possible man.
I have to go for kiddush now so i will probably be online again in a couple of hours.
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
Who are you to tell Catholics that they are not good Catholics just because they don't follow what the pope says?
People have minds of their own so they will not agree with everything the pope says because they will view somethings he says as wrong and not want to follow them.
A part of the Catholic belief is that the Pope is the mouthpiece of their gods. How can you believe in a religion which one of the basic tenets is that the Pope is infallible, and yet call yourself someone who believes in that religion?
No one has to follow word for word what the pope says.
Like you said we have free will so with free will we don't have to follow him like sheep.
Even though I don't follow what the pope says word for word that does not mean I am not Catholic.
I am proud to be Catholic and when I have children they will be raised Catholic despite what people like yourself might think.
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Huh?
You are going to Kiddush yet you have no faith in the Torah? What kind of liberal hypocrite Jew are you?
You realize that JTF goes down for Shabbat because Jews are not allowed to use electricity on Shabbat, right? Do you drive on Shabbat? I would hope that you respect the Shabbat as a good Jew does...
This is not a game... History has a tendency to repeat itself. Remember that Essau hates Jacob and try to understand the pattern of History.
The Jewish peoples savior does not come from Zoroastoria, Hindu, or Christian hands.... It will come when Moshiach comes and leads the world in the revelation of Hashems hand in the world...
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
Who are you to tell Catholics that they are not good Catholics just because they don't follow what the pope says?
People have minds of their own so they will not agree with everything the pope says because they will view somethings he says as wrong and not want to follow them.
A part of the Catholic belief is that the Pope is the mouthpiece of their gods. How can you believe in a religion which one of the basic tenets is that the Pope is infallible, and yet call yourself someone who believes in that religion?
No one has to follow word for word what the pope says.
Like you said we have free will so with free will we don't have to follow him like sheep.
Even though I don't follow what the pope says word for word that does not mean I am not Catholic.
I am proud to be Catholic and when I have children they will be raised Catholic despite what people like yourself might think.
Good for you... But if you teach your children that Jews go to hell for not believing in the false messiah then that is your downfall. I know that Catholics were taught this at least 20 years ago when a Catholic school mate came to me and told me I was going to Hell because I was a Jew. I was also told Jews were devils, etc....
Do not teach your children these things if you expect the relationship with Jews to improve.
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Huh?
You are going to Kiddush yet you have no faith in the Torah? What kind of liberal hypocrite Jew are you?
You realize that JTF goes down for Shabbat because Jews are not allowed to use electricity on Shabbat, right? Do you drive on Shabbat? I would hope that you respect the Shabbat as a good Jew does...
This is not a game... History has a tendency to repeat itself. Remember that Essau hates Jacob and try to understand the pattern of History.
The Jewish peoples savior does not come from Zoroastoria, Hindu, or Christian hands.... It will come when Moshiach comes and leads the world in the revelation of Hashems hand in the world...
Oh,great.I am a secular so i must be a liberal.So let me tell you,i ahe homos,i ahte afro americans and sub saharans,i hate muslims and i believe democracy is wrong.Does that looking to you like liberalism? And yes,i am going to kiddush not for me but for my parrot,and i mean it seriously,it his one of his best chances to have superb food and to get outside the house for a couple of hours.I do not drive in shabbat but not our of respect but out of the fact i does not have a driving license.
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
Who are you to tell Catholics that they are not good Catholics just because they don't follow what the pope says?
People have minds of their own so they will not agree with everything the pope says because they will view somethings he says as wrong and not want to follow them.
A part of the Catholic belief is that the Pope is the mouthpiece of their gods. How can you believe in a religion which one of the basic tenets is that the Pope is infallible, and yet call yourself someone who believes in that religion?
No one has to follow word for word what the pope says.
Like you said we have free will so with free will we don't have to follow him like sheep.
Even though I don't follow what the pope says word for word that does not mean I am not Catholic.
I am proud to be Catholic and when I have children they will be raised Catholic despite what people like yourself might think.
Good for you... But if you teach your children that Jews go to hell for not believing in the false messiah then that is your downfall. I know that Catholics were taught this at least 20 years ago when a Catholic school mate came to me and told me I was going to Hell because I was a Jew. I was also told Jews were devils, etc....
Do not teach your children these things if you expect the relationship with Jews to improve.
Where the hell did I say I hate Jews or that they are going to hell?
I will teach them to hate muslims.
The church that I attend does not teach Jews are going to hell nor have they ever called them any bad name what so ever.
Was your friend from 20 years ago any chance Polish?
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
Who are you to tell Catholics that they are not good Catholics just because they don't follow what the pope says?
People have minds of their own so they will not agree with everything the pope says because they will view somethings he says as wrong and not want to follow them.
A part of the Catholic belief is that the Pope is the mouthpiece of their gods. How can you believe in a religion which one of the basic tenets is that the Pope is infallible, and yet call yourself someone who believes in that religion?
No one has to follow word for word what the pope says.
Like you said we have free will so with free will we don't have to follow him like sheep.
Even though I don't follow what the pope says word for word that does not mean I am not Catholic.
I am proud to be Catholic and when I have children they will be raised Catholic despite what people like yourself might think.
Good for you... But if you teach your children that Jews go to hell for not believing in the false messiah then that is your downfall. I know that Catholics were taught this at least 20 years ago when a Catholic school mate came to me and told me I was going to Hell because I was a Jew. I was also told Jews were devils, etc....
Do not teach your children these things if you expect the relationship with Jews to improve.
Where the hell did I say I hate Jews or that they are going to hell?
I will teach them to hate muslims.
The church that I attend does not teach Jews are going to hell nor have they ever called them any bad name what so ever.
Was your friend from 20 years ago any chance Polish?
Ah? Polish catholics are not THAT anti jewish.I am under the impression he is talking about a maronite.
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
Who are you to tell Catholics that they are not good Catholics just because they don't follow what the pope says?
People have minds of their own so they will not agree with everything the pope says because they will view somethings he says as wrong and not want to follow them.
A part of the Catholic belief is that the Pope is the mouthpiece of their gods. How can you believe in a religion which one of the basic tenets is that the Pope is infallible, and yet call yourself someone who believes in that religion?
No one has to follow word for word what the pope says.
Like you said we have free will so with free will we don't have to follow him like sheep.
Even though I don't follow what the pope says word for word that does not mean I am not Catholic.
I am proud to be Catholic and when I have children they will be raised Catholic despite what people like yourself might think.
Good for you... But if you teach your children that Jews go to hell for not believing in the false messiah then that is your downfall. I know that Catholics were taught this at least 20 years ago when a Catholic school mate came to me and told me I was going to Hell because I was a Jew. I was also told Jews were devils, etc....
Do not teach your children these things if you expect the relationship with Jews to improve.
Where the hell did I say I hate Jews or that they are going to hell?
I will teach them to hate muslims.
The church that I attend does not teach Jews are going to hell nor have they ever called them any bad name what so ever.
Was your friend from 20 years ago any chance Polish?
Nope, Irish Catholics..
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
Who are you to tell Catholics that they are not good Catholics just because they don't follow what the pope says?
People have minds of their own so they will not agree with everything the pope says because they will view somethings he says as wrong and not want to follow them.
A part of the Catholic belief is that the Pope is the mouthpiece of their gods. How can you believe in a religion which one of the basic tenets is that the Pope is infallible, and yet call yourself someone who believes in that religion?
No one has to follow word for word what the pope says.
Like you said we have free will so with free will we don't have to follow him like sheep.
Even though I don't follow what the pope says word for word that does not mean I am not Catholic.
I am proud to be Catholic and when I have children they will be raised Catholic despite what people like yourself might think.
Good for you... But if you teach your children that Jews go to hell for not believing in the false messiah then that is your downfall. I know that Catholics were taught this at least 20 years ago when a Catholic school mate came to me and told me I was going to Hell because I was a Jew. I was also told Jews were devils, etc....
Do not teach your children these things if you expect the relationship with Jews to improve.
Where the hell did I say I hate Jews or that they are going to hell?
I will teach them to hate muslims.
The church that I attend does not teach Jews are going to hell nor have they ever called them any bad name what so ever.
Was your friend from 20 years ago any chance Polish?
Ah? Polish catholics are not THAT anti jewish.I am under the impression he is talking about a maronite.
No I worked with 3 polish men and their polish church did teach Jews killed Jesus and they are going to hell.
I would argue with them about that all the time.
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
Who are you to tell Catholics that they are not good Catholics just because they don't follow what the pope says?
People have minds of their own so they will not agree with everything the pope says because they will view somethings he says as wrong and not want to follow them.
A part of the Catholic belief is that the Pope is the mouthpiece of their gods. How can you believe in a religion which one of the basic tenets is that the Pope is infallible, and yet call yourself someone who believes in that religion?
No one has to follow word for word what the pope says.
Like you said we have free will so with free will we don't have to follow him like sheep.
Even though I don't follow what the pope says word for word that does not mean I am not Catholic.
I am proud to be Catholic and when I have children they will be raised Catholic despite what people like yourself might think.
Good for you... But if you teach your children that Jews go to hell for not believing in the false messiah then that is your downfall. I know that Catholics were taught this at least 20 years ago when a Catholic school mate came to me and told me I was going to Hell because I was a Jew. I was also told Jews were devils, etc....
Do not teach your children these things if you expect the relationship with Jews to improve.
Where the hell did I say I hate Jews or that they are going to hell?
I will teach them to hate muslims.
The church that I attend does not teach Jews are going to hell nor have they ever called them any bad name what so ever.
Was your friend from 20 years ago any chance Polish?
Ah? Polish catholics are not THAT anti jewish.I am under the impression he is talking about a maronite.
No I worked with 3 polish men and their polish church did teach Jews killed Jesus and they are going to hell.
I would argue with them about that all the time.
Well,maybethey are some expection.I talked with many catholics and the only complaint they have about jews is their fantasy about how hitler was jewish.
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The Pope is no friend to Israel, no friend to the Jewish people...
Why do Catholics allow such a pope who doesn't represent the ideology of Catholicism to rule? How do people claim to observe a religion which they do not follow according to the beliefs of the religion? Is this not hypocrisy?
I am honest about my observance of Judaism. When I deviate from what Judaism teaches I do not claim that I am doing right and Judaism is wrong. I admit that I am wrong and try to change my behavior to fit the ideology of the Jewish belief, as interpreted by the Jewish sages. But today people call themselves Jewish and yet violate the Shabbat, violate every negative mitzvah, and yet want to go to a liberal synagogue in order to feel good about the sins they do... That is not religion, that is simply narcissism.
I welcome people of all faiths to help support the Jewish nation. I often suspect their motives because I have heard evangelicals also want the Jews to be in Israel, but so that they can be destroyed in the Armageddon, so that their savior can 'come back' to make a second attempt at saving the world.
But if there are non-Jews, preferably Noahides, who want to help the Jewish nation then I welcome them and want them to prosper. If there are those helping Israel who have ulterior motives those motives will be discovered...
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
Who are you to tell Catholics that they are not good Catholics just because they don't follow what the pope says?
People have minds of their own so they will not agree with everything the pope says because they will view somethings he says as wrong and not want to follow them.
A part of the Catholic belief is that the Pope is the mouthpiece of their gods. How can you believe in a religion which one of the basic tenets is that the Pope is infallible, and yet call yourself someone who believes in that religion?
No one has to follow word for word what the pope says.
Like you said we have free will so with free will we don't have to follow him like sheep.
Even though I don't follow what the pope says word for word that does not mean I am not Catholic.
I am proud to be Catholic and when I have children they will be raised Catholic despite what people like yourself might think.
Good for you... But if you teach your children that Jews go to hell for not believing in the false messiah then that is your downfall. I know that Catholics were taught this at least 20 years ago when a Catholic school mate came to me and told me I was going to Hell because I was a Jew. I was also told Jews were devils, etc....
Do not teach your children these things if you expect the relationship with Jews to improve.
Where the hell did I say I hate Jews or that they are going to hell?
I will teach them to hate muslims.
The church that I attend does not teach Jews are going to hell nor have they ever called them any bad name what so ever.
Was your friend from 20 years ago any chance Polish?
Ah? Polish catholics are not THAT anti jewish.I am under the impression he is talking about a maronite.
No I worked with 3 polish men and their polish church did teach Jews killed Jesus and they are going to hell.
I would argue with them about that all the time.
Sir,
That is straight from the New Testament... It clearly says that the Jews killed Jesus and that those who reject him are devils who are going to hell... That is certainly in the NT to this day..
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
Who are you to tell Catholics that they are not good Catholics just because they don't follow what the pope says?
People have minds of their own so they will not agree with everything the pope says because they will view somethings he says as wrong and not want to follow them.
A part of the Catholic belief is that the Pope is the mouthpiece of their gods. How can you believe in a religion which one of the basic tenets is that the Pope is infallible, and yet call yourself someone who believes in that religion?
No one has to follow word for word what the pope says.
Like you said we have free will so with free will we don't have to follow him like sheep.
Even though I don't follow what the pope says word for word that does not mean I am not Catholic.
I am proud to be Catholic and when I have children they will be raised Catholic despite what people like yourself might think.
Good for you... But if you teach your children that Jews go to hell for not believing in the false messiah then that is your downfall. I know that Catholics were taught this at least 20 years ago when a Catholic school mate came to me and told me I was going to Hell because I was a Jew. I was also told Jews were devils, etc....
Do not teach your children these things if you expect the relationship with Jews to improve.
Where the hell did I say I hate Jews or that they are going to hell?
I will teach them to hate muslims.
The church that I attend does not teach Jews are going to hell nor have they ever called them any bad name what so ever.
Was your friend from 20 years ago any chance Polish?
Ah? Polish catholics are not THAT anti jewish.I am under the impression he is talking about a maronite.
No I worked with 3 polish men and their polish church did teach Jews killed Jesus and they are going to hell.
I would argue with them about that all the time.
Sir,
That is straight from the New Testament... It clearly says that the Jews killed Jesus and that those who reject him are devils who are going to hell... That is certainly in the NT to this day..
How many Catholics do you think really believe that and because of that hate Jews?
My church never once said that Jews Killed Jesus and are going to hell for it.
I have been to a couple different Catholic churches or my life and I have never once heard the Priest utter those words ever.
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I agree,i am a non believer jew but i have deep respect for every religion expect pisslam.Realy there are many beautiful things in the catholic sect like the colorful masses albeit i don't like the current pope.
what do you define as a "non believing Jew"?
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http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Why_Do_People_Hate_The_Jews.htm
http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/Mel_Gibson_Did_The_Jews_Kill_Jesus/
http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/blood_libel/
Crash Course in Jewish History Part 46: Blood Libel
Nothing can rationally explain the extreme Christian accusations leveled against the Jews at this time: Jews killed babies and drank their blood!
We are about to begin discussing an excruciating period of Jewish history that is marked by constant and unrelenting Christian persecution.
During this period we will see:
* the Jews expelled from England (1290)
* the Jews expelled from France (1306 and 1394)
* the Jews expelled from Hungary (1349 and 1360)
* the Jews expelled from German states (1348 and 1498)
* the Jews expelled from Austria (1421)
* the Jews expelled from Lithuania (1445 and 1495)
* the Jews expelled from Spain (1492)
* the Jews expelled from Portugal (1497)
And that’s only a partial list.
(As often as not, the Jews were expelled and then, when a significant economic decline was noted in their absence, they were re-admitted only to be expelled again. It was the classic “can’t live with them, can’t live without them” philosophy.)
The story of these persecutions really begins around the year 1000—the first millennium. It seems that people get nervous about big dates, especially Christians whose Book of Revelations predicts that at the end of a thousand years Satan will be released from prison and then he’s going to wreak havoc on the world.
The approaching millennium led to a religious revival in the Christian world which historians call the “New Piety.” The New Piety focused especially on the historicity of Jesus. Focusing on the life of Jesus meant focusing on his death. And, even though the Christian “New Testament” says that the Romans killed Jesus, the Jews were blamed for wanting him to die.
And so at this time, we see the notion of Jews as “Christ-killers”—which first surfaced in the 4th century—really growing in popularity.
But that alone does not explain the vehemence of Christian persecutions. To fully understand the issue, we have to look at other, more complex reasons.
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That does not really answer my questions since I meant how many Catholics today think like that.
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I think I should stop commenting on this thread.
I have said what I felt... I have nothing against individuals who are born Catholics. If they were not taught to hate Jews then they are fine with me. But I have other issues also with that belief which boils down to theological issues. As long as the Church is not teaching hatred of Jews then they can believe whatever they want...
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Who do you consider to be 'Our' greatest allies amongst those you listed?
You said you are not religious, which is sad to see.... But the Jewish belief is that we need nobody else besides our faith in G-d. Our Torah tells us to never rely on other nations because most of the time they will disappoint us.
The only way the Jewish people will survive is with absolute faith in Hashem alone, not in the strength of the nations.
Our greatest allies are the zoroastrians,indu and anti muslim christians.The torah is very nice but it is unrealistic to pursue an isloationist policy in modern times.Wem need allies against muslim scum and we need every possible man.
I have to go for kiddush now so i will probably be online again in a couple of hours.
Israel's only ally is Hashem...We can cooperate with other nations, but not as allies. It is against the Torah.
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I have mixed feelings about the Catholic Church. Clearly it's actions during the inquisition and the Crusades were awful but I don't hold things that happened centuries ago if those people truly are different today. The last, Pope John Paul 2, clearly did attempt to undo the damage although even he was lacking in dealing with Israel (he did recognize Israel although he was a supporters of the so called Palestinians) he did make the Rabbi of Rome a beneficiary of his will. So on balance the Church has not erased it's bad deeds from the past but has made progress. If someone is making progress, I believe we work with them until such time as they show they are hopeless.
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I have mixed feelings about the Catholic Church. Clearly it's actions during the inquisition and the Crusades were awful but I don't hold things that happened centuries ago if those people truly are different today. The last, Pope John Paul 2, clearly did attempt to undo the damage although even he was lacking in dealing with Israel (he did recognize Israel although he was a supporters of the so called Palestinians) he did make the Rabbi of Rome a beneficiary of his will. So on balance the Church has not erased it's bad deeds from the past but has made progress. If someone is making progress, I believe we work with them until such time as they show they are hopeless.
And the new pope back-pedaled by promoting a Jew-hating Holocaust denying bishop and also they reinstated a prayer which called for Jews to convert... Two steps in the wrong direction.
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I have mixed feelings about the Catholic Church. Clearly it's actions during the inquisition and the Crusades were awful but I don't hold things that happened centuries ago if those people truly are different today. The last, Pope John Paul 2, clearly did attempt to undo the damage although even he was lacking in dealing with Israel (he did recognize Israel although he was a supporters of the so called Palestinians) he did make the Rabbi of Rome a beneficiary of his will. So on balance the Church has not erased it's bad deeds from the past but has made progress. If someone is making progress, I believe we work with them until such time as they show they are hopeless.
And the new pope back-pedaled by promoting a Jew-hating Holocaust denying bishop and also they reinstated a prayer which called for Jews to convert... Two steps in the wrong direction.
Agreed those are not good signs.
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This article has some interesting discussion of possible reconciliation between the Church and the Jewish nation.
http://www.cardozoschool.org/show_article.asp?article_id=654&cat_id=2&parent_id=2&subcat_id=27&cat_name=Contemporary%20Issues&subcat_name=Other
Some reflections on the Pope’s visit to Israel
And the Future of Christianity
Benedict XVI is confused. He has a hard time with himself. He is sandwiched between the old Catholic teachings in which he was raised and the new Christianity which his great predecessor John Paul II initiated and of which he, Benedict, was partially the theologian without wanting to admit it. This gnaws at his conscience, especially now that he’s the pope and is visiting the Jews.
The late John Paul II was, in truth, an “apikores”, a Catholic heretic, although he may not have realized it. He was a man with broad shoulders, who sometimes ignored Catholic fundamentals and changed the rules of the papacy. He traveled his own way, literally and figuratively. This was possible, mainly because he was not the most profound or committed Catholic theologian. He was too great for that. He involved himself with too much “ad extra”, working outside the church, and too little “ad intra”, dealing with issues inside the Church itself, its dogmas and “facts” of faith.
Benedict, on the other hand, is a much greater theologian, with an incredible amount of knowledge and theological creativity. This, however, is his undoing. What does a man do with such brilliant new insights and the need to compress them into mainstream Catholicism and conservatism? In the end, he drowns in his own knowledge, and then discovers that he needs to wake up and start swimming in order to stay afloat, only to realize that his conservatism once again begins to gnaw at his conscience and pulls him under once again. (Sound familiar thinking of some of our own religious leaders?) This explains his dealings with the Holocaust denier Bishop Richard Williamson, as well as the reversal of the Good Friday prayer concerning the Jews, and the beatification of Pius XII whose failure to save (more) Jewish lives in the Holocaust is a large black stain on his life’s work. Benedict has a mission, but it is Mission Impossible.
John Paul II had no such problem. He was a Christian “Chabad-nick” (lehavdil) and started a worldwide ba’al teshuva movement, aiding the disintegration of Communism and bringing his mission to millions of people by traveling to all corners of the earth. But to do so effectively he knew he must bend the rules, and realized that novelty had to be his landmark. He simply suspended himself over the planet and landed wherever he wanted. Sure, sometimes he missed the runway, but he didn’t care too much. He just took his plane elsewhere and landed right on the mark. He inspired, had immense chutzpah and drew the flocks as no one else ever did in Catholic history. He was condemned for focusing too much on the messenger (himself) and not enough on the message. His teachings were the outgrowth of his personality; they depended on him and not on the long-running and constant tradition of the church. But he had good reasons for doing so. Not only did he have the ideal personality for this, but above all he realized that Catholicism had to be reshaped. It had to do away with its “theology of contempt” against the Jews, its hatred for anybody who did not believe in the canon of Catholicism. He knew that it needed a complete overhaul, that it had to admit to the “truth possibility” of other religions (first and foremost, of Judaism) and even forms of secularism. It had to become less messianic.
True, he did not accomplish all of this. He wasn’t ready to see it through to its conclusion, but it hovered over his very being and he felt it. Above all, his cardinals, including his most important Joseph Ratzinger, the present Pope, hindered him from traveling this road and taking it to the end.
A few more popes like him could pave the way and create a new, healthy Christianity of which the world is in great need, a Christianity which would draw closer and closer to Judaism, incorporating some of its healthy foundations (as long as our contemporary Rabbis keep it healthy, which sometimes appears to be a serious problem!). It would even deny that Jesus is the Messiah, and declare him to be just a great prophet or an inspiring figure, a kind of tzaddik – righteous man, even if we Jews would not agree.
True, it may no longer be Catholicism, but it might lead to a new monotheistic religion which would do away with much of the “meshugasen” with which it is still identified. But it is not yet to be. Benedict is not the man. Although he did shape some of these new foundations in his creative theology, he does not dare to carry them through. He lacks the chutzpah and courage of his predecessor. Although he calls the Jews his brothers and sisters, and even God’s people, he does not know how to fit that into his overall conservative theology which simultaneously bursts forth with new ideas and keen insights into the problematic situation of the Christian world.
That is why he feels uncomfortable and confused, and has not been able to “deliver the goods” during his visit in Israel, leaving ambivalent messages which make us Jews nervous. But we needn’t be. It is only logical. Ultimately, conservative Christianity will disintegrate and will one day disappear. It will undergo a metamorphosis and create something with which we Jews will feel comfortable. It will be built on some of the brilliant insights of Benedict and on the marvelous chutzpa of John Paul. But, more than anything, it needs a “Jewish” pope to make it happen.
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Let me say once again, we need to differentiate between the Roman Catholic Church, and individual Catholics. We have wonderful Catholic members like Bullcat3, CJD, Masterwolf, ItalianZionist, and Vito, who have been with us from the very beginning. I met CJD, Bullcat3, and Italian Zionist and Vito several times. They're all very pro-Israel and pro JTF. And they're moderators here except for Italian Zionist. These are not the Mel and Hutton Gibson type of Catholics.
So if people here don't like the RCC, fine. But I don't want Masterwolf, CJD, Bullcat3, Italian Zionist and Vito to feel unwelcome here.
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I agree,i am a non believer jew but i have deep respect for every religion expect pisslam.Realy there are many beautiful things in the catholic sect like the colorful masses albeit i don't like the current pope.
what do you define as a "non believing Jew"?
I define non believing jew as ethnically jew who does not observe judaism.
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I'm with you Muman. The Catholic church is no friend to the Jewish people
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Muman, there is a reason for Chaim's position against bashing supportive members on this forum. He understand that it hurts our movement FAR more than it helps it.
You are offending many of our supportive members because you are calling the members here EVIL. There is a HUGE difference between saying the catholic church and the Pope are evil (which I have said at times) and calling other members here evil.... especially members who are so supportive of Zionism. Don't you understand why Chaim thinks its a bad idea to do this?? For the sake of our movement STOP CALLING OUR SUPPORTIVE MEMBERS EVIL!!!!!
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Who do you consider to be 'Our' greatest allies amongst those you listed?
You said you are not religious, which is sad to see.... But the Jewish belief is that we need nobody else besides our faith in G-d. Our Torah tells us to never rely on other nations because most of the time they will disappoint us.
The only way the Jewish people will survive is with absolute faith in Hashem alone, not in the strength of the nations.
Our greatest allies are the zoroastrians,indu and anti muslim christians.The torah is very nice but it is unrealistic to pursue an isloationist policy in modern times.Wem need allies against muslim scum and we need every possible man.
I have to go for kiddush now so i will probably be online again in a couple of hours.
Israel's only ally is Hashem...We can cooperate with other nations, but not as allies. It is against the Torah.
It is very nice but hashem don't buy us equipment for advanced weaponry and food...
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I agree,i am a non believer jew but i have deep respect for every religion expect pisslam.Realy there are many beautiful things in the catholic sect like the colorful masses albeit i don't like the current pope.
what do you define as a "non believing Jew"?
I define non believing jew as ethnically jew who does not observe judaism.
But you went to Kiddush. How are you a "non believing Jew"? Perhaps non-observant makes more sense. Non-believing sounds like you don't believe in Gd or even the Torah.
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I'm with you Muman. The Catholic church is no friend to the Jewish people
hey long time no see!!! Was wondering about you and where you have been.
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I'm with you Muman. The Catholic church is no friend to the Jewish people
I think you misunderstood him.He wrote CATHOLICS are evil,not that the roman catholic church is evil.This mentallity would not help our cause.
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Muman, there is a reason for Chaim's position against bashing supportive members on this forum. He understand that it hurts our movement FAR more than it helps it.
You are offending many of our supportive members because you are calling the members here EVIL. There is a HUGE difference between saying the catholic church and the Pope are evil (which I have said at times) and calling other members here evil.... especially members who are so supportive of Zionism. Don't you understand why Chaim thinks its a bad idea to do this?? For the sake of our movement STOP CALLING OUR SUPPORTIVE MEMBERS EVIL!!!!!
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I agree,i am a non believer jew but i have deep respect for every religion expect pisslam.Realy there are many beautiful things in the catholic sect like the colorful masses albeit i don't like the current pope.
what do you define as a "non believing Jew"?
I define non believing jew as ethnically jew who does not observe judaism.
But you went to Kiddush. How are you a "non believing Jew"? Perhaps non-observant makes more sense. Non-believing sounds like you don't believe in Gd or even the Torah.
Well,i believe that god does nbot help us unlesswe help ourselves.So i am trying to help myself more than keepong this traditions.
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some of my best friends are catholics.
to me it looks like catholicism and the Vatican hierarchy are 2 separate religions.
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Who do you consider to be 'Our' greatest allies amongst those you listed?
You said you are not religious, which is sad to see.... But the Jewish belief is that we need nobody else besides our faith in G-d. Our Torah tells us to never rely on other nations because most of the time they will disappoint us.
The only way the Jewish people will survive is with absolute faith in Hashem alone, not in the strength of the nations.
Our greatest allies are the zoroastrians,indu and anti muslim christians.The torah is very nice but it is unrealistic to pursue an isloationist policy in modern times.Wem need allies against muslim scum and we need every possible man.
I have to go for kiddush now so i will probably be online again in a couple of hours.
Israel's only ally is Hashem...We can cooperate with other nations, but not as allies. It is against the Torah.
It is very nice but hashem don't buy us equipment for advanced weaponry and food...
But Hashem makes it rain and not rain. And how does food grow? It starts from sun and rain and proper temperatures. So I beg to differ.
And how did the Jews escape from Egypt? Money and advanced weaponry?
And how did the Jews, despite losing 6 million plus in the Shoah survive the Israeli war for independence? Harry Truman and wise Americans? No.
And how did the Jews, in 1967, despite being outnumber 100 to 1 defeat massive Russian weaponized Arab armies in 6 days? I can tell you it wasn't the Americans again since the president at that time actually had a weapons embargo against Israel.
And don't forget what happened when the Jews asked for Rome's help to defeat Greece...It lead to the second destruction the Holy Temple and 2000 years of Diaspora/Galut.
Now, I am all for the support of gentiles of any religion that truly love Israel. I'm all for cooperation. I'm all for relations with other nations. But when it comes down to wars that Israel has to fight, they should ask for only Hashem's help.
Jewish brains are better than American and anywhere else in the world's brains. WE are the light on to other nations..and any self-respecting Jew should hold himself together to show that light appropriately.
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Who do you consider to be 'Our' greatest allies amongst those you listed?
You said you are not religious, which is sad to see.... But the Jewish belief is that we need nobody else besides our faith in G-d. Our Torah tells us to never rely on other nations because most of the time they will disappoint us.
The only way the Jewish people will survive is with absolute faith in Hashem alone, not in the strength of the nations.
Our greatest allies are the zoroastrians,indu and anti muslim christians.The torah is very nice but it is unrealistic to pursue an isloationist policy in modern times.Wem need allies against muslim scum and we need every possible man.
I have to go for kiddush now so i will probably be online again in a couple of hours.
Israel's only ally is Hashem...We can cooperate with other nations, but not as allies. It is against the Torah.
It is very nice but hashem don't buy us equipment for advanced weaponry and food...
But Hashem makes it rain and not rain. And how does food grow? It starts from sun and rain and proper temperatures. So I beg to differ.
And how did the Jews escape from Egypt? Money and advanced weaponry?
And how did the Jews, despite losing 6 million plus in the Shoah survive the Israeli war for independence? Harry Truman and wise Americans? No.
And how did the Jews, in 1967, despite being outnumber 100 to 1 defeat massive Russian weaponized Arab armies in 6 days? I can tell you it wasn't the Americans again since the president at that time actually had a weapons embargo against Israel.
And don't forget what happened when the Jews asked for Rome's help to defeat Greece...It lead to the second destruction the Holy Temple and 2000 years of Diaspora/Galut.
Now, I am all for the support of gentiles of any religion that truly love Israel. I'm all for cooperation. I'm all for relations with other nations. But when it comes down to wars that Israel has to fight, they should ask for only Hashem's help.
Jewish brains are better than American and anywhere else in the world's brains. WE are the light on to other nations..and any self-respecting Jew should hold himself together to show that light appropriately.
Well,and why modern day israel still contain arab? Why six million jews died in the holocaust? Why there is evil in this world? Why we had so many deportaation from different countries? Why we brought non jews into israel? Why we lost the second lebanon war? The answer is that we didn't help ourselves and so god did not want to help us.
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
You know, a lot of the forum doesn't respect you.
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No one should attack Catholic members. But Ruby, the Pope and his Vatican clique are enemies to me. End of story. If my stance is unacceptable, I will leave JTF.
You haven't attacked Catholics, so I think you are fine.
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I agree,i am a non believer jew but i have deep respect for every religion expect pisslam.Realy there are many beautiful things in the catholic sect like the colorful masses albeit i don't like the current pope.
what do you define as a "non believing Jew"?
I define non believing jew as ethnically jew who does not observe judaism.
But you went to Kiddush. How are you a "non believing Jew"? Perhaps non-observant makes more sense. Non-believing sounds like you don't believe in Gd or even the Torah.
Well,i believe that G-d does nbot help us unlesswe help ourselves.So i am trying to help myself more than keepong this traditions.
In Judaism we are not supposed to rely on miracles although miracles do happen. So sitting pretty and praying to win the lottery is NOT what we are supposed to do. We are supposed to work for a living and pray that our work will make us money and give us blessing and enjoyment.
I"ll give you an example, let's say you are a farmer. What would make your crops grow? Sun and water and working the land. But guess what? what if you do everything right and it doesn't work? Perhaps a prayer to Gd will do the job...maybe that alone or maybe an inspiration will come from it to help your crops grow.
There is nothing wrong with praying for good health and happiness. Of course we can seek it out without praying, but sometimes just doing it ourselves won't be enough. Does it hurt to pray for it too? And if it doesn't happen, it doesn't mean Gd isn't listening. It might mean it's not time yet for whatever it is you are praying for.
About observing the laws of the Torah...I'll admit, I'm not fully observant, but I can tell you why it's important to work towards it. First, it will bring blessing if you do it sincerely. It will set you apart from non-Jews if you live in Galut. When you have children, they will have something to identify with...if they are in Galut and they don't have Jewish parents to look up to, it may become easier for them to assimilate...and then their children and then their children etc.
Israel has a non religious Zionist entity as it came to be is failing because later generations don't realize how the surround land is important. They give into so called peace processes as if that is their messiah. Only the religious zionist Israelis truly understand the necessity of Torah with Israel. And if this is the only way, it has to be passed on from one generation to the next so it never gets lost. Otherwise, whether a person is a white Jew, Black Jew, Asian Jew, Tan Jew, they will disappear amongst the people that look like them. Jews are different not by the way they look but by their Jewish souls.
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Huh?
You are going to Kiddush yet you have no faith in the Torah? What kind of liberal hypocrite Jew are you?
Wonderful, hating your fellow Jew because he doesn't hate all Catholics.
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I agree,i am a non believer jew but i have deep respect for every religion expect pisslam.Realy there are many beautiful things in the catholic sect like the colorful masses albeit i don't like the current pope.
what do you define as a "non believing Jew"?
I define non believing jew as ethnically jew who does not observe judaism.
But you went to Kiddush. How are you a "non believing Jew"? Perhaps non-observant makes more sense. Non-believing sounds like you don't believe in Gd or even the Torah.
Well,i believe that G-d does nbot help us unlesswe help ourselves.So i am trying to help myself more than keepong this traditions.
In Judaism we are not supposed to rely on miracles although miracles do happen. So sitting pretty and praying to win the lottery is NOT what we are supposed to do. We are supposed to work for a living and pray that our work will make us money and give us blessing and enjoyment.
I"ll give you an example, let's say you are a farmer. What would make your crops grow? Sun and water and working the land. But guess what? what if you do everything right and it doesn't work? Perhaps a prayer to Gd will do the job...maybe that alone or maybe an inspiration will come from it to help your crops grow.
There is nothing wrong with praying for good health and happiness. Of course we can seek it out without praying, but sometimes just doing it ourselves won't be enough. Does it hurt to pray for it too? And if it doesn't happen, it doesn't mean Gd isn't listening. It might mean it's not time yet for whatever it is you are praying for.
About observing the laws of the Torah...I'll admit, I'm not fully observant, but I can tell you why it's important to work towards it. First, it will bring blessing if you do it sincerely. It will set you apart from non-Jews if you live in Galut. When you have children, they will have something to identify with...if they are in Galut and they don't have Jewish parents to look up to, it may become easier for them to assimilate...and then their children and then their children etc.
Israel has a non religious Zionist entity as it came to be is failing because later generations don't realize how the surround land is important. They give into so called peace processes as if that is their messiah. Only the religious zionist Israelis truly understand the necessity of Torah with Israel. And if this is the only way, it has to be passed on from one generation to the next so it never gets lost. Otherwise, whether a person is a white Jew, Black Jew, Asian Jew, Tan Jew, they will disappear amongst the people that look like them. Jews are different not by the way they look but by their Jewish souls.
Nope,there is no assurance the pray would work.Besides i believe god is a busy guy and we should let him be and not annoy him with our unimportant wishes.And i can grow my children to be staunch zionist even without the halacha (well,i am living in israel so i guess it would be cheating the game).I prefer to educate them to be good human beings and help israel and themselves.
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Huh?
You are going to Kiddush yet you have no faith in the Torah? What kind of liberal hypocrite Jew are you?
Wonderful, hating your fellow Jew because he doesn't hate all Catholics.
Please don't judge him like that.He is a mere human like all of us.You judge him based on your emotions.We should be logical and debate with people (unless they are completely insane like nazies and muslims afor example) then to attack them beacuse of our emotions.
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Who do you consider to be 'Our' greatest allies amongst those you listed?
You said you are not religious, which is sad to see.... But the Jewish belief is that we need nobody else besides our faith in G-d. Our Torah tells us to never rely on other nations because most of the time they will disappoint us.
The only way the Jewish people will survive is with absolute faith in Hashem alone, not in the strength of the nations.
Our greatest allies are the zoroastrians,indu and anti muslim christians.The torah is very nice but it is unrealistic to pursue an isloationist policy in modern times.Wem need allies against muslim scum and we need every possible man.
I have to go for kiddush now so i will probably be online again in a couple of hours.
Israel's only ally is Hashem...We can cooperate with other nations, but not as allies. It is against the Torah.
It is very nice but hashem don't buy us equipment for advanced weaponry and food...
But Hashem makes it rain and not rain. And how does food grow? It starts from sun and rain and proper temperatures. So I beg to differ.
And how did the Jews escape from Egypt? Money and advanced weaponry?
And how did the Jews, despite losing 6 million plus in the Shoah survive the Israeli war for independence? Harry Truman and wise Americans? No.
And how did the Jews, in 1967, despite being outnumber 100 to 1 defeat massive Russian weaponized Arab armies in 6 days? I can tell you it wasn't the Americans again since the president at that time actually had a weapons embargo against Israel.
And don't forget what happened when the Jews asked for Rome's help to defeat Greece...It lead to the second destruction the Holy Temple and 2000 years of Diaspora/Galut.
Now, I am all for the support of gentiles of any religion that truly love Israel. I'm all for cooperation. I'm all for relations with other nations. But when it comes down to wars that Israel has to fight, they should ask for only Hashem's help.
Jewish brains are better than American and anywhere else in the world's brains. WE are the light on to other nations..and any self-respecting Jew should hold himself together to show that light appropriately.
Well,and why modern day israel still contain arab? Why six million jews died in the holocaust? Why there is evil in this world? Why we had so many deportaation from different countries? Why we brought non jews into israel? Why we lost the second lebanon war? The answer is that we didn't help ourselves and so G-d did not want to help us.
yes and no. The reason why modern day israel cannot contain the arabs is because they worry what the rest of the world thinks. WHen Israel doesn't listen to the UN and the US and the rest of the world, then they are not relying on other nations, they have self respect and then can contain the Arabs. Why was Kahane so effective? Because he relied on Hashem alone on saving Israel and didn't care what the US and UN thought. And whenever Israel survived and won miraculous wars, they didn't care what the world thought and they fought better. Why did they lose the Lebanon war? Because they cared what the UN and US thought..they relied on the respect of other nations. So Israel didn't help herself..she wanted other nations to help her and that's why Gd didn't let Israel win.
Why did Israel bring non-jews into Israel? Because Israel is insane and looking for respect from the world..israel should do what Gd tells them to do according to the Torah..and that will bring respect and light to the world.
I cannot speak for Hashem for the 6 million that perished. I'm not a prophet. Gd has His ways of doing things for our sake. If Gd created this world to be peachy and nice and good all the time, none of us would have free will...what's the point then? There is evil in this world so that the righteous can use their free will...
And why does Gd seem to reward evil and not the good in this world? Because he doesn't want us to be righteous to get a reward...
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Please don't judge him like that.He is a mere human like all of us.You judge him based on your emotions.We should be logical and debate with people (unless they are completely insane like nazies and muslims afor example) then to attack them beacuse of our emotions.
I have known him for as long as he's been here.
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I agree,i am a non believer jew but i have deep respect for every religion expect pisslam.Realy there are many beautiful things in the catholic sect like the colorful masses albeit i don't like the current pope.
what do you define as a "non believing Jew"?
I define non believing jew as ethnically jew who does not observe judaism.
But you went to Kiddush. How are you a "non believing Jew"? Perhaps non-observant makes more sense. Non-believing sounds like you don't believe in Gd or even the Torah.
Well,i believe that G-d does nbot help us unlesswe help ourselves.So i am trying to help myself more than keepong this traditions.
In Judaism we are not supposed to rely on miracles although miracles do happen. So sitting pretty and praying to win the lottery is NOT what we are supposed to do. We are supposed to work for a living and pray that our work will make us money and give us blessing and enjoyment.
I"ll give you an example, let's say you are a farmer. What would make your crops grow? Sun and water and working the land. But guess what? what if you do everything right and it doesn't work? Perhaps a prayer to Gd will do the job...maybe that alone or maybe an inspiration will come from it to help your crops grow.
There is nothing wrong with praying for good health and happiness. Of course we can seek it out without praying, but sometimes just doing it ourselves won't be enough. Does it hurt to pray for it too? And if it doesn't happen, it doesn't mean Gd isn't listening. It might mean it's not time yet for whatever it is you are praying for.
About observing the laws of the Torah...I'll admit, I'm not fully observant, but I can tell you why it's important to work towards it. First, it will bring blessing if you do it sincerely. It will set you apart from non-Jews if you live in Galut. When you have children, they will have something to identify with...if they are in Galut and they don't have Jewish parents to look up to, it may become easier for them to assimilate...and then their children and then their children etc.
Israel has a non religious Zionist entity as it came to be is failing because later generations don't realize how the surround land is important. They give into so called peace processes as if that is their messiah. Only the religious zionist Israelis truly understand the necessity of Torah with Israel. And if this is the only way, it has to be passed on from one generation to the next so it never gets lost. Otherwise, whether a person is a white Jew, Black Jew, Asian Jew, Tan Jew, they will disappear amongst the people that look like them. Jews are different not by the way they look but by their Jewish souls.
Nope,there is no assurance the pray would work.Besides i believe G-d is a busy guy and we should let him be and not annoy him with our unimportant wishes.And i can grow my children to be staunch zionist even without the halacha (well,i am living in israel so i guess it would be cheating the game).I prefer to educate them to be good human beings and help israel and themselves.
It doesn't hurt to pray...and Gd isn't a "busy guy" Gd is limitless... If He is the Creator of the universe, believe me, all of our prayers combined with every molecules' prayers will be more than enough for Him to respond or listen to.
I think you should ask Chaim some of these questions for the askJTF every week.
I respect the fact that you live in Israel...since I'm nothing more than a Galut Jew.
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Huh?
You are going to Kiddush yet you have no faith in the Torah? What kind of liberal hypocrite Jew are you?
Wonderful, hating your fellow Jew because he doesn't hate all Catholics.
Please don't judge him like that.He is a mere human like all of us.You judge him based on your emotions.We should be logical and debate with people (unless they are completely insane like nazies and muslims afor example) then to attack them beacuse of our emotions.
Muman, no offense, but he lives in Israel and loves Israel and we don't live there...He has one up on us irregardless of how much less observant he is from me or even you.
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Who do you consider to be 'Our' greatest allies amongst those you listed?
You said you are not religious, which is sad to see.... But the Jewish belief is that we need nobody else besides our faith in G-d. Our Torah tells us to never rely on other nations because most of the time they will disappoint us.
The only way the Jewish people will survive is with absolute faith in Hashem alone, not in the strength of the nations.
Our greatest allies are the zoroastrians,indu and anti muslim christians.The torah is very nice but it is unrealistic to pursue an isloationist policy in modern times.Wem need allies against muslim scum and we need every possible man.
I have to go for kiddush now so i will probably be online again in a couple of hours.
Israel's only ally is Hashem...We can cooperate with other nations, but not as allies. It is against the Torah.
It is very nice but hashem don't buy us equipment for advanced weaponry and food...
But Hashem makes it rain and not rain. And how does food grow? It starts from sun and rain and proper temperatures. So I beg to differ.
And how did the Jews escape from Egypt? Money and advanced weaponry?
And how did the Jews, despite losing 6 million plus in the Shoah survive the Israeli war for independence? Harry Truman and wise Americans? No.
And how did the Jews, in 1967, despite being outnumber 100 to 1 defeat massive Russian weaponized Arab armies in 6 days? I can tell you it wasn't the Americans again since the president at that time actually had a weapons embargo against Israel.
And don't forget what happened when the Jews asked for Rome's help to defeat Greece...It lead to the second destruction the Holy Temple and 2000 years of Diaspora/Galut.
Now, I am all for the support of gentiles of any religion that truly love Israel. I'm all for cooperation. I'm all for relations with other nations. But when it comes down to wars that Israel has to fight, they should ask for only Hashem's help.
Jewish brains are better than American and anywhere else in the world's brains. WE are the light on to other nations..and any self-respecting Jew should hold himself together to show that light appropriately.
Well,and why modern day israel still contain arab? Why six million jews died in the holocaust? Why there is evil in this world? Why we had so many deportaation from different countries? Why we brought non jews into israel? Why we lost the second lebanon war? The answer is that we didn't help ourselves and so G-d did not want to help us.
yes and no. The reason why modern day israel cannot contain the arabs is because they worry what the rest of the world thinks. WHen Israel doesn't listen to the UN and the US and the rest of the world, then they are not relying on other nations, they have self respect and then can contain the Arabs. Why was Kahane so effective? Because he relied on Hashem alone on saving Israel and didn't care what the US and UN thought. And whenever Israel survived and won miraculous wars, they didn't care what the world thought and they fought better. Why did they lose the Lebanon war? Because they cared what the UN and US thought..they relied on the respect of other nations. So Israel didn't help herself..she wanted other nations to help her and that's why Gd didn't let Israel win.
Why did Israel bring non-jews into Israel? Because Israel is insane and looking for respect from the world..israel should do what Gd tells them to do according to the Torah..and that will bring respect and light to the world.
I cannot speak for Hashem for the 6 million that perished. I'm not a prophet. Gd has His ways of doing things for our sake. If Gd created this world to be peachy and nice and good all the time, none of us would have free will...what's the point then? There is evil in this world so that the righteous can use their free will...
And why does Gd seem to reward evil and not the good in this world? Because he doesn't want us to be righteous to get a reward...
Am yes and no.
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As far as Catholics:
There are righteous, including those who sincerely support Jews and Israel amongst all nations, most religions, and races. People of differing religions are going to disagree on theology and that's fine as long as it is with respect and on a different forum. In this forum we are supposed to put those differences aside and fight for a common goal and RESPECT one another.
There are religions and nations which have persecuted and killed Jews. Come to think of it, I don't know of a single nation or religion that hasn't persecuted the Jews sometime in history. I mean the world watched while 6 million plus Jews perished..and till this day the vast majority haven't learned their lesson and that includes the Popes of Rome and many self-hating erev rav Jewish leaders.
What is JTF about? It's about all decent righteous Jews and Gentiles pointing out and fighting against the evil leaders in the world Jew or Gentile, Pope, Imam, or so-called "Rabbi". I'm not trying to be politically correct, but this is what we are. A network of peoples working together.
So if someone here needs to bash the evil deeds of what the Church has done, he needs to be sensitive in adding that not all people of that faith hold the values of those evil deeds...Just like when Chaim does when he talks about blacks...He makes sure to mention that it isn't the genetics of the person that makes him evil, but his behavior. I only think it's all the more appropriate to follow Chaim's example.
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Who do you consider to be 'Our' greatest allies amongst those you listed?
You said you are not religious, which is sad to see.... But the Jewish belief is that we need nobody else besides our faith in G-d. Our Torah tells us to never rely on other nations because most of the time they will disappoint us.
The only way the Jewish people will survive is with absolute faith in Hashem alone, not in the strength of the nations.
Our greatest allies are the zoroastrians,indu and anti muslim christians.The torah is very nice but it is unrealistic to pursue an isloationist policy in modern times.Wem need allies against muslim scum and we need every possible man.
I have to go for kiddush now so i will probably be online again in a couple of hours.
Israel's only ally is Hashem...We can cooperate with other nations, but not as allies. It is against the Torah.
It is very nice but hashem don't buy us equipment for advanced weaponry and food...
But Hashem makes it rain and not rain. And how does food grow? It starts from sun and rain and proper temperatures. So I beg to differ.
And how did the Jews escape from Egypt? Money and advanced weaponry?
And how did the Jews, despite losing 6 million plus in the Shoah survive the Israeli war for independence? Harry Truman and wise Americans? No.
And how did the Jews, in 1967, despite being outnumber 100 to 1 defeat massive Russian weaponized Arab armies in 6 days? I can tell you it wasn't the Americans again since the president at that time actually had a weapons embargo against Israel.
And don't forget what happened when the Jews asked for Rome's help to defeat Greece...It lead to the second destruction the Holy Temple and 2000 years of Diaspora/Galut.
Now, I am all for the support of gentiles of any religion that truly love Israel. I'm all for cooperation. I'm all for relations with other nations. But when it comes down to wars that Israel has to fight, they should ask for only Hashem's help.
Jewish brains are better than American and anywhere else in the world's brains. WE are the light on to other nations..and any self-respecting Jew should hold himself together to show that light appropriately.
Well,and why modern day israel still contain arab? Why six million jews died in the holocaust? Why there is evil in this world? Why we had so many deportaation from different countries? Why we brought non jews into israel? Why we lost the second lebanon war? The answer is that we didn't help ourselves and so G-d did not want to help us.
yes and no. The reason why modern day israel cannot contain the arabs is because they worry what the rest of the world thinks. WHen Israel doesn't listen to the UN and the US and the rest of the world, then they are not relying on other nations, they have self respect and then can contain the Arabs. Why was Kahane so effective? Because he relied on Hashem alone on saving Israel and didn't care what the US and UN thought. And whenever Israel survived and won miraculous wars, they didn't care what the world thought and they fought better. Why did they lose the Lebanon war? Because they cared what the UN and US thought..they relied on the respect of other nations. So Israel didn't help herself..she wanted other nations to help her and that's why Gd didn't let Israel win.
Why did Israel bring non-jews into Israel? Because Israel is insane and looking for respect from the world..israel should do what Gd tells them to do according to the Torah..and that will bring respect and light to the world.
I cannot speak for Hashem for the 6 million that perished. I'm not a prophet. Gd has His ways of doing things for our sake. If Gd created this world to be peachy and nice and good all the time, none of us would have free will...what's the point then? There is evil in this world so that the righteous can use their free will...
And why does Gd seem to reward evil and not the good in this world? Because he doesn't want us to be righteous to get a reward...
Yes and no.I agree about the UN.This is the most idiotic organisation ever created by man.But we do relyed on allies during the sinai operation (the 1956 war) and to protect us during the first gulf war and we are now relying on UNIFIL in lebanon.And god's reward for the evil make it look like he wants people to be evil to get a reward.
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Who do you consider to be 'Our' greatest allies amongst those you listed?
You said you are not religious, which is sad to see.... But the Jewish belief is that we need nobody else besides our faith in G-d. Our Torah tells us to never rely on other nations because most of the time they will disappoint us.
The only way the Jewish people will survive is with absolute faith in Hashem alone, not in the strength of the nations.
Our greatest allies are the zoroastrians,indu and anti muslim christians.The torah is very nice but it is unrealistic to pursue an isloationist policy in modern times.Wem need allies against muslim scum and we need every possible man.
I have to go for kiddush now so i will probably be online again in a couple of hours.
Israel's only ally is Hashem...We can cooperate with other nations, but not as allies. It is against the Torah.
It is very nice but hashem don't buy us equipment for advanced weaponry and food...
But Hashem makes it rain and not rain. And how does food grow? It starts from sun and rain and proper temperatures. So I beg to differ.
And how did the Jews escape from Egypt? Money and advanced weaponry?
And how did the Jews, despite losing 6 million plus in the Shoah survive the Israeli war for independence? Harry Truman and wise Americans? No.
And how did the Jews, in 1967, despite being outnumber 100 to 1 defeat massive Russian weaponized Arab armies in 6 days? I can tell you it wasn't the Americans again since the president at that time actually had a weapons embargo against Israel.
And don't forget what happened when the Jews asked for Rome's help to defeat Greece...It lead to the second destruction the Holy Temple and 2000 years of Diaspora/Galut.
Now, I am all for the support of gentiles of any religion that truly love Israel. I'm all for cooperation. I'm all for relations with other nations. But when it comes down to wars that Israel has to fight, they should ask for only Hashem's help.
Jewish brains are better than American and anywhere else in the world's brains. WE are the light on to other nations..and any self-respecting Jew should hold himself together to show that light appropriately.
Well,and why modern day israel still contain arab? Why six million jews died in the holocaust? Why there is evil in this world? Why we had so many deportaation from different countries? Why we brought non jews into israel? Why we lost the second lebanon war? The answer is that we didn't help ourselves and so G-d did not want to help us.
yes and no. The reason why modern day israel cannot contain the arabs is because they worry what the rest of the world thinks. WHen Israel doesn't listen to the UN and the US and the rest of the world, then they are not relying on other nations, they have self respect and then can contain the Arabs. Why was Kahane so effective? Because he relied on Hashem alone on saving Israel and didn't care what the US and UN thought. And whenever Israel survived and won miraculous wars, they didn't care what the world thought and they fought better. Why did they lose the Lebanon war? Because they cared what the UN and US thought..they relied on the respect of other nations. So Israel didn't help herself..she wanted other nations to help her and that's why Gd didn't let Israel win.
Why did Israel bring non-jews into Israel? Because Israel is insane and looking for respect from the world..israel should do what Gd tells them to do according to the Torah..and that will bring respect and light to the world.
I cannot speak for Hashem for the 6 million that perished. I'm not a prophet. Gd has His ways of doing things for our sake. If Gd created this world to be peachy and nice and good all the time, none of us would have free will...what's the point then? There is evil in this world so that the righteous can use their free will...
And why does Gd seem to reward evil and not the good in this world? Because he doesn't want us to be righteous to get a reward...
Am yes and no.
my suggestion is to ask chaim questions each week on the HEbrew and English forum why Gd would allow such things like the Shoah, evil, not let everyone win the lottery etc etc...
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Huh?
You are going to Kiddush yet you have no faith in the Torah? What kind of liberal hypocrite Jew are you?
Wonderful, hating your fellow Jew because he doesn't hate all Catholics.
Wha?
Where do you come up with that BS? A) I never said I hated him... B) I simply rebuked him for not observing that Sabbath.
I never said anything about hating Christians either. You want to believe this but you have never seen me say that I hate Christians. I do not believe that religion, I think it has caused Jews a lot of problems throughout the ages. I do not forgive the Church for its sins against G-ds chosen nation. I sure hope you pray to G-d for forgiveness for the sins of your forefathers, because according to Jewish belief all those who persist in persecuting the Jews will be judged. What was done in the name of G-d against the Jews, for simply clinging to the original faith of the Torah, the covenant of Moses, they went to their deaths while being burned at the stake.
I will never forgive those who partook of those inglorious deeds involving blood libels, forced conversions, death at the stake, pogroms, crusades, and the Holocaust. There is only one who will forgive those who were involved with those sins. While each individual is free to choose his destiny, he is also subjected to environmental pressures. Sometimes the sins of the fathers do get passed on to their children. Only when people reject the false and cling to the truth will they really understand the nature of Hashem and his relation with the Jewish people.
A Jew in Israel should appreciate his Jewish nature instead of rejecting it. It is very sad when a Jew in Israel does not care about Shabbat. This is what will lead to assimilation.
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Please don't judge him like that.He is a mere human like all of us.You judge him based on your emotions.We should be logical and debate with people (unless they are completely insane like nazies and muslims afor example) then to attack them beacuse of our emotions.
I have known him for as long as he's been here.
Really? Well i guess it is true.He is a moderators which means he is here a very long time.This also means nobody is going to do anything with my report.
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I agree,i am a non believer jew but i have deep respect for every religion expect pisslam.Realy there are many beautiful things in the catholic sect like the colorful masses albeit i don't like the current pope.
what do you define as a "non believing Jew"?
I define non believing jew as ethnically jew who does not observe judaism.
But you went to Kiddush. How are you a "non believing Jew"? Perhaps non-observant makes more sense. Non-believing sounds like you don't believe in Gd or even the Torah.
Well,i believe that G-d does nbot help us unlesswe help ourselves.So i am trying to help myself more than keepong this traditions.
In Judaism we are not supposed to rely on miracles although miracles do happen. So sitting pretty and praying to win the lottery is NOT what we are supposed to do. We are supposed to work for a living and pray that our work will make us money and give us blessing and enjoyment.
I"ll give you an example, let's say you are a farmer. What would make your crops grow? Sun and water and working the land. But guess what? what if you do everything right and it doesn't work? Perhaps a prayer to Gd will do the job...maybe that alone or maybe an inspiration will come from it to help your crops grow.
There is nothing wrong with praying for good health and happiness. Of course we can seek it out without praying, but sometimes just doing it ourselves won't be enough. Does it hurt to pray for it too? And if it doesn't happen, it doesn't mean Gd isn't listening. It might mean it's not time yet for whatever it is you are praying for.
About observing the laws of the Torah...I'll admit, I'm not fully observant, but I can tell you why it's important to work towards it. First, it will bring blessing if you do it sincerely. It will set you apart from non-Jews if you live in Galut. When you have children, they will have something to identify with...if they are in Galut and they don't have Jewish parents to look up to, it may become easier for them to assimilate...and then their children and then their children etc.
Israel has a non religious Zionist entity as it came to be is failing because later generations don't realize how the surround land is important. They give into so called peace processes as if that is their messiah. Only the religious zionist Israelis truly understand the necessity of Torah with Israel. And if this is the only way, it has to be passed on from one generation to the next so it never gets lost. Otherwise, whether a person is a white Jew, Black Jew, Asian Jew, Tan Jew, they will disappear amongst the people that look like them. Jews are different not by the way they look but by their Jewish souls.
Nope,there is no assurance the pray would work.Besides i believe G-d is a busy guy and we should let him be and not annoy him with our unimportant wishes.And i can grow my children to be staunch zionist even without the halacha (well,i am living in israel so i guess it would be cheating the game).I prefer to educate them to be good human beings and help israel and themselves.
It doesn't hurt to pray...and Gd isn't a "busy guy" Gd is limitless... If He is the Creator of the universe, believe me, all of our prayers combined with every molecules' prayers will be more than enough for Him to respond or listen to.
I think you should ask Chaim some of these questions for the askJTF every week.
I respect the fact that you live in Israel...since I'm nothing more than a Galut Jew.
So? You can still contribute to the state of israel.You can encourage yur children to join the IDF for example or contribute money to the KKl.
Well,it doesn't hurt to pray.But humans are like insect in a universal scale.One's wishes should not interfere with asn almighty creator like god.
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Huh?
You are going to Kiddush yet you have no faith in the Torah? What kind of liberal hypocrite Jew are you?
Wonderful, hating your fellow Jew because he doesn't hate all Catholics.
Please don't judge him like that.He is a mere human like all of us.You judge him based on your emotions.We should be logical and debate with people (unless they are completely insane like nazies and muslims afor example) then to attack them beacuse of our emotions.
Muman, no offense, but he lives in Israel and loves Israel and we don't live there...He has one up on us irregardless of how much less observant he is from me or even you.
There is no personal merit in living in Israel if that's where you were born and where you have always lived. What is righteous is for a Jew in the Exile to make aliyah especially when he has advantages there, such as a good job, that he will leave behind...
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Please don't judge him like that.He is a mere human like all of us.You judge him based on your emotions.We should be logical and debate with people (unless they are completely insane like nazies and muslims afor example) then to attack them beacuse of our emotions.
I have known him for as long as he's been here.
Really? Well i guess it is true.He is a moderators which means he is here a very long time.This also means nobody is going to do anything with my report.
You seem to be the one hating. I never called for your banning...
And you are doing this on Shabbat? Wow!
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Please don't judge him like that.He is a mere human like all of us.You judge him based on your emotions.We should be logical and debate with people (unless they are completely insane like nazies and muslims afor example) then to attack them beacuse of our emotions.
I have known him for as long as he's been here.
Really? Well i guess it is true.He is a moderators which means he is here a very long time.This also means nobody is going to do anything with my report.
You seem to be the one hating. I never called for your banning...
And you are doing this on Shabbat? Wow!
When did i call for your banning? By doing anything with my post i meant deleting your inflamatory posts ,that's all.That's the reason forum have the report option.
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Please don't judge him like that.He is a mere human like all of us.You judge him based on your emotions.We should be logical and debate with people (unless they are completely insane like nazies and muslims afor example) then to attack them beacuse of our emotions.
I have known him for as long as he's been here.
Really? Well i guess it is true.He is a moderators which means he is here a very long time.This also means nobody is going to do anything with my report.
You seem to be the one hating. I never called for your banning...
And you are doing this on Shabbat? Wow!
When did i call for your banning? By doing anything with my post i meant deleting your inflamatory posts ,that's all.That's the reason forum have the report option.
Im sorry I don't see what I said which was inflammatory... Does repeating the truth and history of the persecution hurt anyone? Do you know that Chanukah is next week? Do you remember why we celebrate Chanukah? The persecution of the Greeks against the Jewish tradition in an attempt to wipe out Jewish faith. A small band of Maccabees rose up against the mighty Greek army and defeated them in a war...
I am sorry if you were offended. Please explain to me why it is offensive and maybe I would consider deleting it myself...
Thank you
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Please don't judge him like that.He is a mere human like all of us.You judge him based on your emotions.We should be logical and debate with people (unless they are completely insane like nazies and muslims afor example) then to attack them beacuse of our emotions.
I have known him for as long as he's been here.
Really? Well i guess it is true.He is a moderators which means he is here a very long time.This also means nobody is going to do anything with my report.
You seem to be the one hating. I never called for your banning...
And you are doing this on Shabbat? Wow!
When did i call for your banning? By doing anything with my post i meant deleting your inflamatory posts ,that's all.That's the reason forum have the report option.
Im sorry I don't see what I said which was inflammatory... Does repeating the truth and history of the persecution hurt anyone? Do you know that Chanukah is next week? Do you remember why we celebrate Chanukah? The persecution of the Greeks against the Jewish tradition in an attempt to wipe out Jewish faith. A small band of Maccabees rose up against the mighty Greek army and defeated them in a war...
I am sorry if you were offended. Please explain to me why it is offensive and maybe I would consider deleting it myself...
Thank you
It ios offensive for me beacuse many of my friends are catholics and are great anti islamic people.You also attack the catholics based on the POPE which is the most anti catholic person ever existed.Also many members here are catholics themselves and as jews we should respect their faith and be a light upon them.Light anbd not darkness.Also it is not just me who found those comment inflamatory.
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Please don't judge him like that.He is a mere human like all of us.You judge him based on your emotions.We should be logical and debate with people (unless they are completely insane like nazies and muslims afor example) then to attack them beacuse of our emotions.
I have known him for as long as he's been here.
Really? Well i guess it is true.He is a moderators which means he is here a very long time.This also means nobody is going to do anything with my report.
You seem to be the one hating. I never called for your banning...
And you are doing this on Shabbat? Wow!
When did i call for your banning? By doing anything with my post i meant deleting your inflamatory posts ,that's all.That's the reason forum have the report option.
Im sorry I don't see what I said which was inflammatory... Does repeating the truth and history of the persecution hurt anyone? Do you know that Chanukah is next week? Do you remember why we celebrate Chanukah? The persecution of the Greeks against the Jewish tradition in an attempt to wipe out Jewish faith. A small band of Maccabees rose up against the mighty Greek army and defeated them in a war...
I am sorry if you were offended. Please explain to me why it is offensive and maybe I would consider deleting it myself...
Thank you
It ios offensive for me beacuse many of my friends are catholics and are great anti islamic people.You also attack the catholics based on the POPE which is the most anti catholic person ever existed.Also many members here are catholics themselves and as jews we should respect their faith and be a light upon them.Light anbd not darkness.Also it is not just me who found those comment inflamatory.
It is great you have so many non-Jewish friends. Maybe you can find some nice religious Jewish friends who can enlighten you with the Shabbat.
I also find your claim that I bring darkness odd. I simply said that I will not forgive the church for what it has done to the Jewish people for many, many years. You are in Israel now... Do you know why Israel is a country today? Do you know how many people died for simply being Jewish? For clinging to their beliefs because the Torah promised them that they will eventually come back to the promised Holy Land? Do they teach that to you in your Israeli schools?
How long have the Jewish people wanted to live there? How long have the nations conquered it and subjugated it, and made it Judenrein? Now the Jewish people are once again in their land. And now the secular state is effectively killing the Jews by removing their heritage.
Eclactus... Do you watch Rabbi Kahane? Do you understand what he is teaching us? I recommend you watch some of his videos. Simply go to youtube and enter Rabbi Kahane in the search bar and you will find his videos.. Please listen to him... I hope he can reach you...
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Please don't judge him like that.He is a mere human like all of us.You judge him based on your emotions.We should be logical and debate with people (unless they are completely insane like nazies and muslims afor example) then to attack them beacuse of our emotions.
I have known him for as long as he's been here.
Really? Well i guess it is true.He is a moderators which means he is here a very long time.This also means nobody is going to do anything with my report.
You seem to be the one hating. I never called for your banning...
And you are doing this on Shabbat? Wow!
When did i call for your banning? By doing anything with my post i meant deleting your inflamatory posts ,that's all.That's the reason forum have the report option.
Im sorry I don't see what I said which was inflammatory... Does repeating the truth and history of the persecution hurt anyone? Do you know that Chanukah is next week? Do you remember why we celebrate Chanukah? The persecution of the Greeks against the Jewish tradition in an attempt to wipe out Jewish faith. A small band of Maccabees rose up against the mighty Greek army and defeated them in a war...
I am sorry if you were offended. Please explain to me why it is offensive and maybe I would consider deleting it myself...
Thank you
It ios offensive for me beacuse many of my friends are catholics and are great anti islamic people.You also attack the catholics based on the POPE which is the most anti catholic person ever existed.Also many members here are catholics themselves and as jews we should respect their faith and be a light upon them.Light anbd not darkness.Also it is not just me who found those comment inflamatory.
It is great you have so many non-Jewish friends. Maybe you can find some nice religious Jewish friends who can enlighten you with the Shabbat.
I also find your claim that I bring darkness odd. I simply said that I will not forgive the church for what it has done to the Jewish people for many, many years. You are in Israel now... Do you know why Israel is a country today? Do you know how many people died for simply being Jewish? For clinging to their beliefs because the Torah promised them that they will eventually come back to the promised Holy Land? Do they teach that to you in your Israeli schools?
How long have the Jewish people wanted to live there? How long have the nations conquered it and subjugated it, and made it Judenrein? Now the Jewish people are once again in their land. And now the secular state is effectively killing the Jews by removing their heritage.
Eclactus... Do you watch Rabbi Kahane? Do you understand what he is teaching us? I recommend you watch some of his videos. Simply go to youtube and enter Rabbi Kahane in the search bar and you will find his videos.. Please listen to him... I hope he can reach you...
Great,you just took one unimportant thing i posted on my reply and ingnored the rest.Let me assure you i also have religious jewish friends.I am not anti judaism i simply dies not observe it much.However i respect the people that do.
You are bringin darkness to the nations by teaching them hatred and teach them not to forgive.This is not what the torah meant.The torah wanted us to be a LIGHT upon the nations.
I am living in israel beacuse i was born as an israel and i would not choose otherwise.I am an israeli patriot and wish for the elimination of the arab scum.The fact i does not strictly observe judaism does not make me less jewish or evil.I do not want a judenrein israel but an arab/muslim rein israel.
And yes,i watched some of his videos,why?
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Let me say once again, we need to differentiate between the Roman Catholic Church, and individual Catholics. We have wonderful Catholic members like Bullcat3, CJD, Masterwolf, ItalianZionist, and Vito, who have been with us from the very beginning. I met CJD, Bullcat3, and Italian Zionist and Vito several times. They're all very pro-Israel and pro JTF. And they're moderators here except for Italian Zionist. These are not the Mel and Hutton Gibson type of Catholics.
So if people here don't like the RCC, fine. But I don't want Masterwolf, CJD, Bullcat3, Italian Zionist and Vito to feel unwelcome here.
Lisa makes the most sense. The Chrisian members here are good people, and the Pope on the other hand.... well I'll bite my tongue.
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Nobody is bashing Catholics here. We are bashing a religious institution and hierarchy, the head of which is the Pope. There's a difference there. Most of 1 billion+ Catholics have done nothing unusually wrong and would be shocked at what their Popes have done and do. But their leadership has done bad things, and their leadership cannot be ignored. The Pope says that he is G-d's representative on earth and good Catholics must believe that.
Anyway, I'm done with this issue.
A word of my advice to my Jewish friends: know your friends AND your enemies. The Pope may play a game of friendship to Israel, but the Vatican recognized Israel only in 1993, 45 years after its founding. In contrast, they recognized neo-Nazi Croatia in 1992, less then a year after its declaration of independence (and while a war was still raging). That says it all.
The only protector of the Jewish people can be God. All other nations are friends on an individual but not a group basis. Some have been more decent to the Jews, others less so. Friendship can exist on an individual basis.
But Israel should not repeat the mistakes of the past, e.g. building alliances with gentile powers like Egypt or Assyria in an effort to obtain military protection. The Vatican is a Gentile world power and an incredibly powerful one at that. The small land area of Vatican City belies the fact that it wields tremendous power in the hearts of hundreds of millions of Catholics and that it is in some ways a continuation of the Roman Empire.
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Nobody is bashing Catholics here. We are bashing a religious institution and hierarchy, the head of which is the Pope. There's a difference there. Most of 1 billion+ Catholics have done nothing unusually wrong and would be shocked at what their Popes have done and do. But their leadership has done bad things, and their leadership cannot be ignored. The Pope says that he is G-d's representative on earth and good Catholics must believe that.
In terms of the Pope being G-d's representative on earth, doesn't that just mean he has the final say on how some religious doctrine is interpreted? I don't know. I'm Jewish.
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Let me say now that I apologize to anyone who offended. It is not my intention to offend anyone concerning their faith.
I always say that having some faith is better than having no faith at all. I do not intend to diminish anyones faith in G-d. My only intention for not forgiving the church is because I want to remember the pain we suffered for remaining true to Hashem, this is the suffering which the prophets referred to as Hashems Suffering servant.
I have absolute faith that as we move closer to the age of Messiah that the truth of Hashem will become clearer as the darkness is removed from this world. All the righteous nations of the world have a place in this world and the world to come, those who rise against the nation of Jews will be removed from the world. There is a belief that this time is near. I would like for all mankind to work together to usher in the era of peace and understanding.
I know that there are many non-Jewish righteous gentiles. I see them and listen to them every day. I have nothing against the Catholic members here and I have never heard anything negative from them.
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Nobody is bashing Catholics here. We are bashing a religious institution and hierarchy, the head of which is the Pope. There's a difference there. Most of 1 billion+ Catholics have done nothing unusually wrong and would be shocked at what their Popes have done and do. But their leadership has done bad things, and their leadership cannot be ignored. The Pope says that he is G-d's representative on earth and good Catholics must believe that.
In terms of the Pope being G-d's representative on earth, doesn't that just mean he has the final say on how some religious doctrine is interpreted? I don't know. I'm Jewish.
Pontifex means bridge. It means that the Pope is a bridge between man and G-d. The Pope is supposed to be Christ's representative on earth, i.e. "The Vicar of Christ." Anything he pronounces while sitting in the Papal throne, which is actually NOT in St. Peter's Basilica but rather in St. John Lateran, is 100% "truth." And all faithful Catholics must believe it.
(http://catholicinjapan.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/imgp5247.jpg)
This sort of concept does not exist in other branches of Christianity. Protestants do not worship Luther (thank G-d, he was an antisemite) or Calvin or any reformer. What they say is irrelevant unless it is scripturally based. Orthodox Patriarchs cannot introduce new doctrines at will - it comes from consensus and ecumenical councils. Only Catholicism invests almost total power in the hands of one sinful human being - the Pope. Such a Pope can call up a crusade, inquisition, war, etc. whenever he likes.
This book is very interesting because it documents how Pope Pius X was pushing Austria-Hungary into initiating WWI: http://www.amazon.com/Yugoslav-Auschwitz-Vatican-Croatian-Massacre/dp/0879757523/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1290805643&sr=8-3 (http://www.amazon.com/Yugoslav-Auschwitz-Vatican-Croatian-Massacre/dp/0879757523/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1290805643&sr=8-3)
If my posts are horrible, feel free to delete, but I think Jews do themselves no service by deluding themselves into thinking that everything has changed in Rome.
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What are you guys morons?! eclactus the great is Ben Mizrahi.
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Huh?
You are going to Kiddush yet you have no faith in the Torah? What kind of liberal hypocrite Jew are you?
Wonderful, hating your fellow Jew because he doesn't hate all Catholics.
Ben Mizrahi is a Neo-Nazi untermensch, not a Jew.
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What are you guys morons?! eclactus the great is Ben Mizrahi.
Is he really? He played us like a fiddle.
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Yes, the inquisitions were a horrible tragedy never to be forgotten, but if you are comparing our Catholic members to these horrible Jew killers, I don't know what to say. How does that help anything? Really?
Like I thought we were all here for the same purpose. To try and make the world a better place. And this is what we do when we have a death cult attempting to take over and Iran with nuclear missiles? Where are the priorities?
I thought we were trying to save people's lives and make a difference but as far as I can tell here, this is all about ego and who's right? Well, it's wrong.
And embarrassing and hurting the people who do as much as they can to help save the Jewish people is stupid. I hope you guys can talk a step back and look at the long term for our organization. Please use wisdom and common sense.
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What are you guys morons?! eclactus the great is Ben Mizrahi.
Really?
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What are you guys morons?! eclactus the great is Ben Mizrahi.
Really?
Compare their writing styles.
Also, Ben Mizrahi יש"ו was obsessed with parrots (at least he was in the Hebrew forum) - Eclectus (not eclactus) is a parrot species.
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As far as Catholics:
There are righteous, including those who sincerely support Jews and Israel amongst all nations, most religions, and races. People of differing religions are going to disagree on theology and that's fine as long as it is with respect and on a different forum. In this forum we are supposed to put those differences aside and fight for a common goal and RESPECT one another.
There are religions and nations which have persecuted and killed Jews. Come to think of it, I don't know of a single nation or religion that hasn't persecuted the Jews sometime in history. I mean the world watched while 6 million plus Jews perished..and till this day the vast majority haven't learned their lesson and that includes the Popes of Rome and many self-hating erev rav Jewish leaders.
What is JTF about? It's about all decent righteous Jews and Gentiles pointing out and fighting against the evil leaders in the world Jew or Gentile, Pope, Imam, or so-called "Rabbi". I'm not trying to be politically correct, but this is what we are. A network of peoples working together.
So if someone here needs to bash the evil deeds of what the Church has done, he needs to be sensitive in adding that not all people of that faith hold the values of those evil deeds...Just like when Chaim does when he talks about blacks...He makes sure to mention that it isn't the genetics of the person that makes him evil, but his behavior. I only think it's all the more appropriate to follow Chaim's example.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Yes, the inquisitions were a horrible tragedy never to be forgotten, but if you are comparing our Catholic members to these horrible Jew killers, I don't know what to say. How does that help anything? Really?
Like I thought we were all here for the same purpose. To try and make the world a better place. And this is what we do when we have a death cult attempting to take over and Iran with nuclear missiles? Where are the priorities?
I thought we were trying to save people's lives and make a difference but as far as I can tell here, this is all about ego and who's right? Well, it's wrong.
And embarrassing and hurting the people who do as much as they can to help save the Jewish people is stupid. I hope you guys can talk a step back and look at the long term for our organization. Please use wisdom and common sense.
Shlomo, I started this by making a few threads that were critical of the pope caving in on the issue of condoms for faggots and black Africans in order to appease the AIDS lobby. I did not mean, however, to attack Catholics as individuals, or even the church itself other than on that issue.
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What are you guys morons?! eclactus the great is Ben Mizrahi.
Really?
Compare their writing styles.
Also, Ben Mizrahi יש"ו was obsessed with parrots (at least he was in the Hebrew forum) - Eclectus (not eclactus) is a parrot species.
If it is that nazi arse, he fooled me really well. I didn't know he was obsessed with parrots.
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No one should attack Catholic members. But Ruby, the Pope and his Vatican clique are enemies to me. End of story. If my stance is unacceptable, I will leave JTF.
I will follow you .
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I will follow you .
Nobody said you have to love the Catholic Church.
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What are you guys morons?! eclactus the great is Ben Mizrahi.
Really?
Compare their writing styles.
Also, Ben Mizrahi יש"ו was obsessed with parrots (at least he was in the Hebrew forum) - Eclectus (not eclactus) is a parrot species.
If it is that nazi arse, he fooled me really well. I didn't know he was obsessed with parrots.
Same here. I didn't know he had an obsession with parrots.
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I'm with you Muman. The Catholic church is no friend to the Jewish people
hey long time no see!!! Was wondering about you and where you have been.
Thank you Dr. Dan. This means a lot to me
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Neither Chaim nor JTF has ever given a pass to the RCC on its historical or current wrongs against Jews or others. Everyone acknowledges things like the Inquisition were evil. We also have major differences of opinion with the current pope and I think this is fine to discuss.
However, JTF does have a policy against bashing of Catholics because we have Catholic members and allies who don't believe anything bad against Jews. Many individual Catholic people who have not joined yet would make wonderful JTFers, but most self-respecting people don't join a forum where they will be attacked and dragged through the mud. Most Catholics I've met have been very decent, conservative, and moral people who deserve to be respected.
I find it sad that Muman and others show absolutely no respect for Chaim's wishes on this matter. It's Chaim's message board, I don't see why you can't follow what he has said numerous times in the past. Policy that if followed would cause many more members to join has been broken time and time again and this hurts our cause.
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Pontifex means bridge. It means that the Pope is a bridge between man and G-d. The Pope is supposed to be Christ's representative on earth, i.e. "The Vicar of Christ." Anything he pronounces while sitting in the Papal throne, which is actually NOT in St. Peter's Basilica but rather in St. John Lateran, is 100% "truth." And all faithful Catholics must believe it.
This sort of concept does not exist in other branches of Christianity. Protestants do not worship Luther (thank G-d, he was an antisemite) or Calvin or any reformer. What they say is irrelevant unless it is scripturally based. Orthodox Patriarchs cannot introduce new doctrines at will - it comes from consensus and ecumenical councils. Only Catholicism invests almost total power in the hands of one sinful human being - the Pope. Such a Pope can call up a crusade, inquisition, war, etc. whenever he likes.
This is completely false.
The doctrine of infallibility you refer to has nothing to do with a physical chair.
The theology behind ex cathedra is that God will not lead His church into error. Hence, the Pope cannot err when he teaches fundamental church doctrine. This has only been done twice in history, and in both cases they were fairly obscure points of theology (the doctrines of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of Mary). In both cases, it followed several centuries of theological discussion, there was overwhelming consensus among bishops and the general community, etc.
It does not mean that he is personally infallible, that he can't sin, that he can't make mistakes, that he can't make errors when teaching or writing, etc. It's a very rarely used doctrine and is typically blown completely out of proportion by anti-Catholic critics.
This doctrine has zero to do with any temporal powers of the Pope - your statement about calling up a war whenever he wishes.
BTW, you mention scripture in Christianity. Catholics believe that scripture is simply a snapshot of tradition taken at an early point in time. Catholics afford weight to both scripture, tradition, and theology. So does the Orthodox church. Protestants afford sole weight to scripture. It is a significant difference.
The historical artifact (the chair) you refer to does actually reside in St. Peter's - I've seen it myself. It's mounted on a wall overlooking one of the altars (http://saintpetersbasilica.org/Altars/Cathedra/Cathedra-altar.jpg). Medieval people believed it was the actual chair upon which St. Peter sat and taught, but no modern Catholic believes that to be actually true. St. John Lateran is the Pope's parish in Rome, when he acts in his capacity as Bishop of Rome.
BTW, regarding infallibility...there is actually something that is similar in Judaism. If there is a point of debate and there is intense study, research, and discussion by rabbinic scholars, God may actually adjust reality to make their conclusions true. I'm paraphrasing from an Ask JTF question from some time ago.
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Neither Chaim nor JTF has ever given a pass to the RCC on its historical or current wrongs against Jews or others. Everyone acknowledges things like the Inquisition were evil. We also have major differences of opinion with the current pope and I think this is fine to discuss.
However, JTF does have a policy against bashing of Catholics because we have Catholic members and allies who don't believe anything bad against Jews. Many individual Catholic people who have not joined yet would make wonderful JTFers, but most self-respecting people don't join a forum where they will be attacked and dragged through the mud. Most Catholics I've met have been very decent, conservative, and moral people who deserve to be respected.
I find it sad that Muman and others show absolutely no respect for Chaim's wishes on this matter. It's Chaim's message board, I don't see why you can't follow what he has said numerous times in the past. Policy that if followed would cause many more members to join has been broken time and time again and this hurts our cause.
I said nothing against any Catholic members, nor any Catholics. And I said nothing other than the fact I would never ever forgive the Church. What does that have to do with Catholic bashing? I don't think I owe the Church an apology.
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Of course you don't owe the church an apology. On the other hand I think we need to be judicious in how we approach these problems. We should never give a pass to any evil behavior, but we should also keep in mind we are trying to attract people to JTF, and so we should try to make the board look as attractive as possible to all who agree with our basic beliefs.
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Of course you don't owe the church an apology. On the other hand I think we need to be judicious in how we approach these problems. We should never give a pass to any evil behavior, but we should also keep in mind we are trying to attract people to JTF, and so we should try to make the board look as attractive as possible to all who agree with our basic beliefs.
Yes, I agree... I have said over and over that it was not my intention to offend individual members of the faith. But from my Jewish perspective there is a long way to go before I accept that Church. I have friends who are Catholics and there is no problem with them. I do not seek differences with them.
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Of course you don't owe the church an apology. On the other hand I think we need to be judicious in how we approach these problems. We should never give a pass to any evil behavior, but we should also keep in mind we are trying to attract people to JTF, and so we should try to make the board look as attractive as possible to all who agree with our basic beliefs.
Yes, I agree... I have said over and over that it was not my intention to offend individual members of the faith. But from my Jewish perspective there is a long way to go before I accept that Church. I have friends who are Catholics and there is no problem with them. I do not seek differences with them.
You have to keep in mind that a lot of times it's the perception that counts, not just the intention. Right now we are going to be in the fight of our lives, not against the RCC, but against Obama, Islam, and the New World Order agenda. Nobody is asking you to accept the RCC. We just want Catholic individuals to be respected and made to feel welcomed here. This means that sometimes even though we must discuss things that happened in the past or are happening currently, we should do so with a sensitivity toward their feelings.
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Huh?
You are going to Kiddush yet you have no faith in the Torah? What kind of liberal hypocrite Jew are you?
You realize that JTF goes down for Shabbat because Jews are not allowed to use electricity on Shabbat, right? Do you drive on Shabbat? I would hope that you respect the Shabbat as a good Jew does...
This is not a game... History has a tendency to repeat itself. Remember that Essau hates Jacob and try to understand the pattern of History.
The Jewish peoples savior does not come from Zoroastoria, Hindu, or Christian hands.... It will come when Moshiach comes and leads the world in the revelation of Hashems hand in the world...
Oh,great.I am a secular so i must be a liberal.So let me tell you,i ahe homos,i ahte afro americans and sub saharans,i hate muslims and i believe democracy is wrong.Does that looking to you like liberalism? And yes,i am going to kiddush not for me but for my parrot,and i mean it seriously,it his one of his best chances to have superb food and to get outside the house for a couple of hours.I do not drive in shabbat but not our of respect but out of the fact i does not have a driving license.
You bring a parrot to kiddush? Now that's interesting!
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Huh?
You are going to Kiddush yet you have no faith in the Torah? What kind of liberal hypocrite Jew are you?
You realize that JTF goes down for Shabbat because Jews are not allowed to use electricity on Shabbat, right? Do you drive on Shabbat? I would hope that you respect the Shabbat as a good Jew does...
This is not a game... History has a tendency to repeat itself. Remember that Essau hates Jacob and try to understand the pattern of History.
The Jewish peoples savior does not come from Zoroastoria, Hindu, or Christian hands.... It will come when Moshiach comes and leads the world in the revelation of Hashems hand in the world...
Oh,great.I am a secular so i must be a liberal.So let me tell you,i ahe homos,i ahte afro americans and sub saharans,i hate muslims and i believe democracy is wrong.Does that looking to you like liberalism? And yes,i am going to kiddush not for me but for my parrot,and i mean it seriously,it his one of his best chances to have superb food and to get outside the house for a couple of hours.I do not drive in shabbat but not our of respect but out of the fact i does not have a driving license.
You bring a parrot to kiddush? Now that's interesting!
It's Ben Mizrahi. He loves parrots and hates Jews.
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Huh?
You are going to Kiddush yet you have no faith in the Torah? What kind of liberal hypocrite Jew are you?
You realize that JTF goes down for Shabbat because Jews are not allowed to use electricity on Shabbat, right? Do you drive on Shabbat? I would hope that you respect the Shabbat as a good Jew does...
This is not a game... History has a tendency to repeat itself. Remember that Essau hates Jacob and try to understand the pattern of History.
The Jewish peoples savior does not come from Zoroastoria, Hindu, or Christian hands.... It will come when Moshiach comes and leads the world in the revelation of Hashems hand in the world...
Oh,great.I am a secular so i must be a liberal.So let me tell you,i ahe homos,i ahte afro americans and sub saharans,i hate muslims and i believe democracy is wrong.Does that looking to you like liberalism? And yes,i am going to kiddush not for me but for my parrot,and i mean it seriously,it his one of his best chances to have superb food and to get outside the house for a couple of hours.I do not drive in shabbat but not our of respect but out of the fact i does not have a driving license.
You bring a parrot to kiddush? Now that's interesting!
It's Ben Mizrahi. He loves parrots and hates Jews.
wtf ???
why did he come back here?
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Ben Mizrahi, we don't want Nazis on this forum. Please leave and go back to Steven's forum or whorefront where you fit in.
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Who do you consider to be 'Our' greatest allies amongst those you listed?
You said you are not religious, which is sad to see.... But the Jewish belief is that we need nobody else besides our faith in G-d. Our Torah tells us to never rely on other nations because most of the time they will disappoint us.
The only way the Jewish people will survive is with absolute faith in Hashem alone, not in the strength of the nations.
Our greatest allies are the zoroastrians,indu and anti muslim christians.The torah is very nice but it is unrealistic to pursue an isloationist policy in modern times.Wem need allies against muslim scum and we need every possible man.
Torah doesn't have an "isolationist policy" unless someone ignorant misinterprets it.
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who is a Nazi? I am getting confused here.
Ben Mizrahi, we don't want Nazis on this forum. Please leave and go back to Steven's forum or whorefront where you fit in.
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fyi: the Jews did not kill Christ, He laid His life down willingly.
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Why_Do_People_Hate_The_Jews.htm
http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/Mel_Gibson_Did_The_Jews_Kill_Jesus/
http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/blood_libel/
Crash Course in Jewish History Part 46: Blood Libel
Nothing can rationally explain the extreme Christian accusations leveled against the Jews at this time: Jews killed babies and drank their blood!
We are about to begin discussing an excruciating period of Jewish history that is marked by constant and unrelenting Christian persecution.
During this period we will see:
* the Jews expelled from England (1290)
* the Jews expelled from France (1306 and 1394)
* the Jews expelled from Hungary (1349 and 1360)
* the Jews expelled from German states (1348 and 1498)
* the Jews expelled from Austria (1421)
* the Jews expelled from Lithuania (1445 and 1495)
* the Jews expelled from Spain (1492)
* the Jews expelled from Portugal (1497)
And that’s only a partial list.
(As often as not, the Jews were expelled and then, when a significant economic decline was noted in their absence, they were re-admitted only to be expelled again. It was the classic “can’t live with them, can’t live without them” philosophy.)
The story of these persecutions really begins around the year 1000—the first millennium. It seems that people get nervous about big dates, especially Christians whose Book of Revelations predicts that at the end of a thousand years Satan will be released from prison and then he’s going to wreak havoc on the world.
The approaching millennium led to a religious revival in the Christian world which historians call the “New Piety.” The New Piety focused especially on the historicity of Jesus. Focusing on the life of Jesus meant focusing on his death. And, even though the Christian “New Testament” says that the Romans killed Jesus, the Jews were blamed for wanting him to die.
And so at this time, we see the notion of Jews as “Christ-killers”—which first surfaced in the 4th century—really growing in popularity.
But that alone does not explain the vehemence of Christian persecutions. To fully understand the issue, we have to look at other, more complex reasons.
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who is a Nazi? I am getting confused here.
Ben Mizrahi, we don't want Nazis on this forum. Please leave and go back to Steven's forum or whorefront where you fit in.
Ben Mizrahi (the guy who used to be Ben M or normal atheist on this board, came back under another name. He used to advocate eugenics and he posted on StørmFrønt calling himself a Nazi Jew.
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Ben, crawl back to Fag Buchanus' groin.
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Chaim has made his position on this very clear:
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,12723.msg135999.html#msg135999
It's sad that people on here either don't listen to Chaim or don't show enough respect to honor his wishes.
"To post threads that insult Catholics makes no sense. This is playing into the hands of our enemies."
Would you be kind and remove all my posts.
For the following reasons:I do not need this.
I do respect Chaim,but I do not wish to be here any longer .
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Chaim has made his position on this very clear:
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,12723.msg135999.html#msg135999
It's sad that people on here either don't listen to Chaim or don't show enough respect to honor his wishes.
"To post threads that insult Catholics makes no sense. This is playing into the hands of our enemies."
Would you be kind and remove all my posts.
For the following reasons:I do not need this.
I do respect Chaim,but I do not wish to be here any longer .
So what's the problem? People come and go all the time.... You seem to want to make a point here... Spell it out for the impaired like myself... It seems like you can't survive here unless people are [censored] and moaning about the Pope and Vatican 24/7.. I did not realize that the Vatican played such a large roll in world politics... Last time I checked the title of the forum was Jewish Task Force not Vatican Task Force.
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Chaim has made his position on this very clear:
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,12723.msg135999.html#msg135999
It's sad that people on here either don't listen to Chaim or don't show enough respect to honor his wishes.
"To post threads that insult Catholics makes no sense. This is playing into the hands of our enemies."
Would you be kind and remove all my posts.
For the following reasons:I do not need this.
I do respect Chaim,but I do not wish to be here any longer .
So what's the problem? People come and go all the time.... You seem to want to make a point here... Spell it out for the impaired like myself... It seems like you can't survive here unless people are [censored] and moaning about the Pope and Vatican 24/7.. I did not realize that the Vatican played such a large roll in world politics... Last time I checked the title of the forum was Jewish Task Force not Vatican Task Force.
And what is your problem? Does it offend you when people criticize Vatican and the Pope? Do you identify with him, is he a person of authority for you?
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Ruby,
You started thsi thread and you bash plenty of people. You're just selective in who you go after, Muman being your all time favorite. I dont buy it--even a little bit.
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Chaim has made his position on this very clear:
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,12723.msg135999.html#msg135999
It's sad that people on here either don't listen to Chaim or don't show enough respect to honor his wishes.
"To post threads that insult Catholics makes no sense. This is playing into the hands of our enemies."
Would you be kind and remove all my posts.
For the following reasons:I do not need this.
I do respect Chaim,but I do not wish to be here any longer .
So what's the problem? People come and go all the time.... You seem to want to make a point here... Spell it out for the impaired like myself... It seems like you can't survive here unless people are [censored] and moaning about the Pope and Vatican 24/7.. I did not realize that the Vatican played such a large roll in world politics... Last time I checked the title of the forum was Jewish Task Force not Vatican Task Force.
And what is your problem? Does it offend you when people criticize Vatican and the Pope? Do you identify with him, is he a person of authority for you?
My problem?? My problem is I have too much respect for our forum to tell some people around here what I really think of them... At least you had the decency to write to me in English... The Pope is OK as far as Popes go he hasn't called for any genocide since he has been appointed so I guess he is doing a lot better then some of his critics ::) .. G-d bless you my friend ...You have a nice day if you can.
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Chaim has made his position on this very clear:
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,12723.msg135999.html#msg135999
It's sad that people on here either don't listen to Chaim or don't show enough respect to honor his wishes.
"To post threads that insult Catholics makes no sense. This is playing into the hands of our enemies."
Would you be kind and remove all my posts.
For the following reasons:I do not need this.
I do respect Chaim,but I do not wish to be here any longer .
So what's the problem? People come and go all the time.... You seem to want to make a point here... Spell it out for the impaired like myself... It seems like you can't survive here unless people are [censored] and moaning about the Pope and Vatican 24/7.. I did not realize that the Vatican played such a large roll in world politics... Last time I checked the title of the forum was Jewish Task Force not Vatican Task Force.
And what is your problem? Does it offend you when people criticize Vatican and the Pope? Do you identify with him, is he a person of authority for you?
My problem?? My problem is I have too much respect for our forum to tell some people around here what I really think of them... At least you had the decency to write to me in English... The Pope is OK as far as Popes go he hasn't called for any genocide since he has been appointed so I guess he is doing a lot better then some of his critics ::) .. G-d bless you my friend ...You have a nice day if you can.
Your religious leader is going to make nazi war criminal Alojzije Stepinac into a saint. That tells me he's no different than Hitler's Pope (Pius XII). If he's still OK to you, we've got nothing else to talk about.
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I'm with you Muman. The Catholic church is no friend to the Jewish people
I think you misunderstood him.He wrote CATHOLICS are evil,not that the roman catholic church is evil.This mentallity would not help our cause.
Great Eclatus,
Show me where he wrote that. I want to see it.
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Please all debate on this and personal attacks do it in pm or do it on another forum. I respect muman's point of view and he and chaim have expressed displeasure of the church's history and other current Christian leaders. However with these opinions there are appropriate ways to express it. Chaim does it well. If you guys can't do it like him do it privately amongst yourselves instead of it publicly.
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Ruby,
You started thsi thread and you bash plenty of people. You're just selective in who you go after, Muman being your all time favorite. I dont buy it--even a little bit.
JTFE I'm sorry that you feel that way.
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Ruby,
You started thsi thread and you bash plenty of people. You're just selective in who you go after, Muman being your all time favorite. I dont buy it--even a little bit.
I can't remember Ruby ever bashed anyone except for trolls.
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Listen, I do not want this topic to go on and on.... But it is true that I have been accused of calling individual Catholics as evil. My only point I wanted to make in this thread is, as I posted in my original message, was that the Church has a history which prevents me from being open to loving it.
Here is my 1st message...
Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
While it seems that the part where I wonder why Catholics who disavow the Pope don't listen to him when it appears that believing the Pope is a part of the faith can be misunderstood. I do not say that I hate them. I compare them to the non-Orthodox 'branches' of Judaism who claim to follow the Jewish faith while boldly disregarding the Torah.
I do not want this thread to continue. I have said what I wanted to say, and I appreciate those who understand what I am saying.
PS: If that part about Catholics who don't pay attention to the Popes pronouncements is wrong, and it is OK by Catholic faith to ignore the Pope, then I will alter my posting. I do not intend to make incorrect statements which are inciteful. I just don't understand what is acceptable according to other beliefs.
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Ruby,
You started thsi thread and you bash plenty of people. You're just selective in who you go after, Muman being your all time favorite. I dont buy it--even a little bit.
I can't remember Ruby ever bashed anyone except for trolls.
I posted something wrong that caused hurt feelings but I'm trying to figure out what it was with some private messages. I think I did do something wrong but I'm not sure exactly what it was yet.
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This is one of the problems with a religious based organization that accepts and works with members of other religions.
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This is one of the problems with a religious based organization that accepts and works with members of other religions.
Yes that's true. If you mix different types of people together that automatically creates some level of tension a lot of times. This is one reason why I feel that society-level multiculturalism doesn't work. This is especially true when it comes to such deeply held beliefs and emotional topics such as religion.
However it is necessary to come together to work as a team against evil in the world. We do have common enemies that we need to unite against, and I would hope that the different groups on this board could in addition to working together, also find a level of friendship and understanding for each other as well. We can respect the differences between us and yet try to find as much common ground as possible.
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I agree with you RubyStars...
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I agree with you RubyStars...
Thanks Muman. I know it's not always easy for any of us.
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Ruby,
You started thsi thread and you bash plenty of people. You're just selective in who you go after, Muman being your all time favorite. I dont buy it--even a little bit.
I can't remember Ruby ever bashed anyone except for trolls.
I posted something wrong that caused hurt feelings but I'm trying to figure out what it was with some private messages. I think I did do something wrong but I'm not sure exactly what it was yet.
I don't think you did do something wrong, Rubystars.
JTFenthusiast - Why was it wrong for Ruby to start this thread?
Being told that you are worse then your worst enemy...it's not a nice feeling.
At least Ruby is a decent enough person to realize how hurtful that is.
That is why she put herself out there to defend the Catholic members.
Don't you think something is wrong when you can drive a staunch ally away?
You can't have a better friend, or ally, then MasterWolf.
I think Chaim can vouch for MasterWolf on that front.
Muman, in my opinion, should not presume to question how I practice my faith. What doctrines of the church I choose to follow. I would never do that to him. I would never make fun of his beliefs. A word like Jeebus (which he uses often) is offensive to Christians. I can tell you that. Maybe other members are afraid to say that. The last time, I just tried to ignore that he wrote it that way. Maybe, just maybe, that is why people are on the offensive when it comes to him.
Now...I know that a truce was called within the last few posts of this thread. I do realize that. Still, I had to speak my peace. Sorry.
Thank you, Ruby. I appreciate that you stuck your neck out to defend the Catholic friends you have on the forum. BullCat
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Ruby,
You started thsi thread and you bash plenty of people. You're just selective in who you go after, Muman being your all time favorite. I dont buy it--even a little bit.
I can't remember Ruby ever bashed anyone except for trolls.
I posted something wrong that caused hurt feelings but I'm trying to figure out what it was with some private messages. I think I did do something wrong but I'm not sure exactly what it was yet.
I don't think you did do something wrong, Rubystars.
JTFenthusiast - Why was it wrong for Ruby to start this thread?
Being told that you are worse then your worst enemy...it's not a nice feeling.
At least Ruby is a decent enough person to realize how hurtful that is.
That is why she put herself out there to defend the Catholic members.
Don't you think something is wrong when you can drive a staunch ally away?
You can't have a better friend, or ally, then MasterWolf.
I think Chaim can vouch for MasterWolf on that front.
Muman, in my opinion, should not presume to question how I practice my faith. What doctrines of the church I choose to follow. I would never do that to him. I would never make fun of his beliefs. A word like Jeebus (which he uses often) is offensive to Christians. I can tell you that. Maybe other members are afraid to say that. The last time, I just tried to ignore that he wrote it that way. Maybe, just maybe, that is why people are on the offensive when it comes to him.
Now...I know that a truce was called within the last few posts of this thread. I do realize that. Still, I had to speak my peace. Sorry.
Thank you, Ruby. I appreciate that you stuck your neck out to defend the Catholic friends you have on the forum. BullCat
BullCat3,
I have explained why I said what I said. Concerning the issues you bring up, we can discuss them in private messages rather than continue this thread. I do not do things in order to offend others. I say things which I believe my faith teaches me to do. I am sorry if I have said things which irritate you.
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Ruby,
You started thsi thread and you bash plenty of people. You're just selective in who you go after, Muman being your all time favorite. I dont buy it--even a little bit.
I can't remember Ruby ever bashed anyone except for trolls.
I posted something wrong that caused hurt feelings but I'm trying to figure out what it was with some private messages. I think I did do something wrong but I'm not sure exactly what it was yet.
I don't think you did do something wrong, Rubystars.
JTFenthusiast - Why was it wrong for Ruby to start this thread?
Being told that you are worse then your worst enemy...it's not a nice feeling.
At least Ruby is a decent enough person to realize how hurtful that is.
That is why she put herself out there to defend the Catholic members.
Don't you think something is wrong when you can drive a staunch ally away?
You can't have a better friend, or ally, then MasterWolf.
I think Chaim can vouch for MasterWolf on that front.
Muman, in my opinion, should not presume to question how I practice my faith. What doctrines of the church I choose to follow. I would never do that to him. I would never make fun of his beliefs. A word like Jeebus (which he uses often) is offensive to Christians. I can tell you that. Maybe other members are afraid to say that. The last time, I just tried to ignore that he wrote it that way. Maybe, just maybe, that is why people are on the offensive when it comes to him.
Now...I know that a truce was called within the last few posts of this thread. I do realize that. Still, I had to speak my peace. Sorry.
Thank you, Ruby. I appreciate that you stuck your neck out to defend the Catholic friends you have on the forum. BullCat
BullCat3,
I have explained why I said what I said. Concerning the issues you bring up, we can discuss them in private messages rather than continue this thread. I do not do things in order to offend others. I say things which I believe my faith teaches me to do. I am sorry if I have said things which irritate you.
I do not believe that your faith instructs you to write Jeebus.
I have many Jewish friends. We are respectful of each other. They would never think to do that. So I can't understand why you want me to believe that is part of your faith.
Not one of them ever told me that their religion expected them to make fun of mine.
In fact, I never heard the expression Jeebus until I met you.
I live in New York where there are a lot of Jewish people.
I don't really use private message. If we have something to say to each other, it is best out in the open.
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Ruby,
You started thsi thread and you bash plenty of people. You're just selective in who you go after, Muman being your all time favorite. I dont buy it--even a little bit.
I can't remember Ruby ever bashed anyone except for trolls.
I posted something wrong that caused hurt feelings but I'm trying to figure out what it was with some private messages. I think I did do something wrong but I'm not sure exactly what it was yet.
I don't think you did do something wrong, Rubystars.
JTFenthusiast - Why was it wrong for Ruby to start this thread?
Being told that you are worse then your worst enemy...it's not a nice feeling.
At least Ruby is a decent enough person to realize how hurtful that is.
That is why she put herself out there to defend the Catholic members.
Don't you think something is wrong when you can drive a staunch ally away?
You can't have a better friend, or ally, then MasterWolf.
I think Chaim can vouch for MasterWolf on that front.
Muman, in my opinion, should not presume to question how I practice my faith. What doctrines of the church I choose to follow. I would never do that to him. I would never make fun of his beliefs. A word like Jeebus (which he uses often) is offensive to Christians. I can tell you that. Maybe other members are afraid to say that. The last time, I just tried to ignore that he wrote it that way. Maybe, just maybe, that is why people are on the offensive when it comes to him.
Now...I know that a truce was called within the last few posts of this thread. I do realize that. Still, I had to speak my peace. Sorry.
Thank you, Ruby. I appreciate that you stuck your neck out to defend the Catholic friends you have on the forum. BullCat
BullCat3,
I have explained why I said what I said. Concerning the issues you bring up, we can discuss them in private messages rather than continue this thread. I do not do things in order to offend others. I say things which I believe my faith teaches me to do. I am sorry if I have said things which irritate you.
I do not believe that your faith instructs you to write Jeebus.
I have many Jewish friends. We are respectful of each other. They would never think to do that. So I can't understand why you want me to believe that is part of your faith.
Not one of them ever told me that their religion expected them to make fun of mine.
In fact, I never heard the expression Jeebus until I met you.
I live in New York where there are a lot of Jewish people.
I don't really use private message. If we have something to say to each other, it is best out in the open.
Do you really want to get into this in the open and re-open the question? I don't but I am prepared to defend my position. I am sure that there are others who will back me up too...
I have NO NEED to make fun of anyones religion. I do have a need to recognize that Hashem is the ONE G-d of Israel and that there is NO OTHER. You on the other hand have a need to attack me and accuse me of things I do not do. I pretty much let everyone believe what they want. But when it comes to issues of Jewish belief I will stand up about it.
http://www.bnti.us/observances_%26_rules.html
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You started thsi thread and you bash plenty of people. You're just selective in who you go after, Muman being your all time favorite. I dont buy it--even a little bit.
Says the poster who loves to bash heterosexuals. :laugh:
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I do not believe that your faith instructs you to write Jeebus.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Enough already with the fighting already.
This forum is filled with people of different faith can we all just agree that we are different and agree to work to a common goal?
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I do not believe that your faith instructs you to write Jeebus.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Well, we certainly do not believe he is our 'Saviour' as you do. The name Yehoshua is supposed to mean Savior... I do not believe he was Moshiach either... I will not call him christ {which means annointed in greek}.
While googling I came across Jeebus as a less-offensive way of referring to your messiah.
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I'm not sure how this thread turned into a Serbs vs. non-Serbs thread. Boyana and voo-yoo, I don't know why you two feel the need to leave. You can have whatever opinion of Catholicism you desire, and neither of you have ever caused trouble. Nobody has a problem with you and Serbs in general thinking the Vatican is evil. This was never about you to begin with and I'm not sure why you feel that it is. Of course Chaim and the rest of us, Catholic members included, know what was done to Serbs in the name of Catholicism.
What this is really about is one poster here who is constantly making snide insults against Christians in general (and yes, Orthodox are included within that), and then pretends to have accidentally misspoken. If you want that person to win, go ahead and leave. If you don't, continue to post at JTF.
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Well, we certainly do not believe he is our 'Saviour' as you do. The name Yehoshua is supposed to mean Savior... I do not believe he was Moshiach either... I will not call him christ {which means annointed in greek}.
While googling I came across Jeebus as a less-offensive way of referring to your messiah.
Every real Jew over the age of five, worldwide, knows who Yeshu is. Please explain why you don't.
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I'm not sure how this thread turned into a Serbs vs. non-Serbs thread. Boyana and voo-yoo, I don't know why you two feel the need to leave. You can have whatever opinion of Catholicism you desire, and neither of you have ever caused trouble. Nobody has a problem with you and Serbs in general thinking the Vatican is evil. This was never about you to begin with and I'm not sure why you feel that it is. Of course Chaim and the rest of us, Catholic members included, know what was done to Serbs in the name of Catholicism.
What this is really about is one poster here who is constantly making snide insults against Christians in general (and yes, Orthodox are included within that), and then pretends to have accidentally misspoken. If you want that person to win, go ahead and leave. If you don't, continue to post at JTF.
You bold faced liar... It's all about my posting how I do not forgive the Church which caused them to leave... You are some twisted little Satan aren't you DBF...
GO BACK TO HELL WHERE YOU BELONG!
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Yikes,
I'm not sure how this thread turned into a Serbs vs. non-Serbs thread. Boyana and voo-yoo, I don't know why you two feel the need to leave. You can have whatever opinion of Catholicism you desire, and neither of you have ever caused trouble. Nobody has a problem with you and Serbs in general thinking the Vatican is evil. This was never about you to begin with and I'm not sure why you feel that it is. Of course Chaim and the rest of us, Catholic members included, know what was done to Serbs in the name of Catholicism.
What this is really about is one poster here who is constantly making snide insults against Christians in general (and yes, Orthodox are included within that), and then pretends to have accidentally misspoken. If you want that person to win, go ahead and leave. If you don't, continue to post at JTF.
You bold faced liar... It's all about my posting how I do not forgive the Church which caused them to leave... You are some twisted little Satan aren't you DBF...
GO BACK TO HELL WHERE YOU BELONG!
Yikes.
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Yes... Yeshu = Yemach Shemo...
You know, before I met you, I had never met a Jew in my whole entire life who acts like this. In fact, I'm not entirely convinced I have.
You are some twisted little Satan aren't you DBF...
If this is some kind of attempt to turn my theology against me, it won't work. By your own theology, all you have done is called me a zealous, fierce prosecutor/judging agent of G-d.
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Whatever... you can slander me all you want. The truth is I never said anything against anyone here. I spoke the truth about the history of the Church and why I would never forgive them. I do not believe in Christianity, and I find their beliefs concerning Jews to have caused countless Jewish deaths.
It is Chanukah and the Jews faught against those who tried to get them to give up their Jewish beliefs. The Church sent Jews to the stake and made them accept a religion which is considered heresy according to Jewish belief. Those martyrs died Al Kiddush Hashem {To Sanctify the Name of G-d}. They did not die so that in the future they would be forgotten, and the Church would then be able to destroy future Jewish generations. They died in order to pass on the message that it is worth fighting to be a Jew.
I did nothing wrong but speak up for the souls of those who died Al-Kiddush Hashem.
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I do not believe that your faith instructs you to write Jeebus.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Well, we certainly do not believe he is our 'Saviour' as you do. The name Yehoshua is supposed to mean Savior... I do not believe he was Moshiach either... I will not call him christ {which means annointed in greek}.
While googling I came across Jeebus as a less-offensive way of referring to your messiah.
If I did not know better I would say you were watching a little to much of the Simpsons cartoon :::D I am glad I don't have problems like this it would be to stressful. Thank G-d I can write what needs to be written.
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Yes... Yeshu = Yemach Shemo...
You know, before I met you, I had never met a Jew in my whole entire life who acts like this. In fact, I'm not entirely convinced I have.
You are some twisted little Satan aren't you DBF...
If this is some kind of attempt to turn my theology against me, it won't work. By your own theology, all you have done is called me a zealous, fierce prosecutor/judging agent of G-d.
Yes, you are THE MOST judgemental of anyone here. Every day you condemn people to go to hell for their iniquity. Every day you testify against people just as Satan does... You are doing your job...
But you are persecuting me for your own prurient interest. I look at what I have written and I do not have shame. I feel bad for those who do not understand what I am saying. I do not hate anyone for their beliefs. When I have a problem is when those people take out their hatred on the Jewish people, as my family has witnessed through the ages.
I am sorry that this thread has taken this turn. I am very upset at some of you here. I thank JTFEnthusiast and Ron Ben Michael for their contribution.
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I do not believe that your faith instructs you to write Jeebus.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Well, we certainly do not believe he is our 'Saviour' as you do. The name Yehoshua is supposed to mean Savior... I do not believe he was Moshiach either... I will not call him christ {which means annointed in greek}.
While googling I came across Jeebus as a less-offensive way of referring to your messiah.
Less offensive to whom?
-
I do not believe that your faith instructs you to write Jeebus.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Well, we certainly do not believe he is our 'Saviour' as you do. The name Yehoshua is supposed to mean Savior... I do not believe he was Moshiach either... I will not call him christ {which means annointed in greek}.
While googling I came across Jeebus as a less-offensive way of referring to your messiah.
Less offensive to whom?
Look at the Urban Dictionary site... Many of the definitions refer to either the Simpsons usage and-or a 'less-offensive' way of referring to the Christian messiah.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jeebus&page=2
#8 : A less religiously-offensive version of "Jesus" used often in place of saying the Lamb of God's name in vain. The origin of the word stems from Homer Simpson from the show THE SIMPSONS
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I do not believe that your faith instructs you to write Jeebus.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Well, we certainly do not believe he is our 'Saviour' as you do. The name Yehoshua is supposed to mean Savior... I do not believe he was Moshiach either... I will not call him christ {which means annointed in greek}.
While googling I came across Jeebus as a less-offensive way of referring to your messiah.
Less offensive to whom?
Look at the Urban Dictionary site... Many of the definitions refer to either the Simpsons usage and-or a 'less-offensive' way of referring to the Christian messiah.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jeebus&page=2
#8 : A less religiously-offensive version of "Jesus" used often in place of saying the Lamb of G-d's name in vain. The origin of the word stems from Homer Simpson from the show THE SIMPSONS
LOL, Muman, I don't want to publicly embarrass you so I'm sending you a message in private about this...
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I'm not sure how this thread turned into a Serbs vs. non-Serbs thread. Boyana and voo-yoo, I don't know why you two feel the need to leave. You can have whatever opinion of Catholicism you desire, and neither of you have ever caused trouble. Nobody has a problem with you and Serbs in general thinking the Vatican is evil. This was never about you to begin with and I'm not sure why you feel that it is. Of course Chaim and the rest of us, Catholic members included, know what was done to Serbs in the name of Catholicism.
What this is really about is one poster here who is constantly making snide insults against Christians in general (and yes, Orthodox are included within that), and then pretends to have accidentally misspoken. If you want that person to win, go ahead and leave. If you don't, continue to post at JTF.
I didn't say I wanted to leave. That would be only in case if Chaim says that the Pope and his organization are not to be spoken of in negative context. I wouldn't accept that. That doesn't mean I would bash Catholic theology. For me, the Pope is a politician.
About Muman, I don't have a problem with him. He wouldn't speak about "Jeebus" if some Christian members didn't feel the the need to constantly mention Christian holidays, what Jesus said etc. This is after all, a Jewish forum. There are many other theological forums, this one is primarily political. And let's be honest here, Jews have every right to be suspicious about Christianity. 2000 years of history prove that. As I see it, every non Jew is here to show support as an individual, not as a member of some church or a nation, because churches and nations don't support Israel and Jews.
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I do not believe that your faith instructs you to write Jeebus.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Well, we certainly do not believe he is our 'Saviour' as you do. The name Yehoshua is supposed to mean Savior... I do not believe he was Moshiach either... I will not call him christ {which means annointed in greek}.
While googling I came across Jeebus as a less-offensive way of referring to your messiah.
Less offensive to whom?
Look at the Urban Dictionary site... Many of the definitions refer to either the Simpsons usage and-or a 'less-offensive' way of referring to the Christian messiah.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jeebus&page=2
#8 : A less religiously-offensive version of "Jesus" used often in place of saying the Lamb of G-d's name in vain. The origin of the word stems from Homer Simpson from the show THE SIMPSONS
Simpsons usage... :::D
Ok ~ if Homer Simpson uses that expression do you think it's not offensive?
Come on, Muman. That is the whole point of Homer Simpson. He's stupid and obnoxious.
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I'm not sure how this thread turned into a Serbs vs. non-Serbs thread. Boyana and voo-yoo, I don't know why you two feel the need to leave. You can have whatever opinion of Catholicism you desire, and neither of you have ever caused trouble. Nobody has a problem with you and Serbs in general thinking the Vatican is evil. This was never about you to begin with and I'm not sure why you feel that it is. Of course Chaim and the rest of us, Catholic members included, know what was done to Serbs in the name of Catholicism.
What this is really about is one poster here who is constantly making snide insults against Christians in general (and yes, Orthodox are included within that), and then pretends to have accidentally misspoken. If you want that person to win, go ahead and leave. If you don't, continue to post at JTF.
I didn't say I wanted to leave. That would be only in case if Chaim says that the Pope and his organization are not to be spoken of in negative context. I wouldn't accept that. That doesn't mean I would bash Catholic theology. For me, the Pope is a politician.
About Muman, I don't have a problem with him. He wouldn't speak about "Jeebus" if some Christian members didn't feel the the need to constantly mention Christian holidays, what Jesus said etc. This is after all, a Jewish forum. There are many other theological forums, this one is primarily political. And let's be honest here, Jews have every right to be suspicious about Christianity. 2000 years of history prove that. As I see it, every non Jew is here to show support as an individual, not as a member of some church or a nation, because churches and nations don't support Israel and Jews.
What?
Muman brings up Christianity and Catholics more then any Catholic member of the forum does.
Remember there were Christian members here long before Muman, and some other agitators, and there was never this level of tension.
So stop it.
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Oh Boy!
It seems I am doing a terrible job in expressing what I am saying.
1) I did not intend to offend anyone by using the name.
2) I have heard this name used by others and I did not realize it was offensive.
In general I try very hard not to use names of gods of others because the Torah clearly says that a Jew is not to speak the names of other gods (See Exodus 23:13) . This is explained because Hashem is a jealous G_d. In order not to say the name I will often substitute letters and alternate spellings. But it is not because I think that it insults them, it is because I do not want to accept the divinity of anything other than Hashem.
Once again. I am not making judgements of others here.
I think this thread should be locked... I can do it but I would prefer someone else do it..
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You started thsi thread and you bash plenty of people. You're just selective in who you go after, Muman being your all time favorite. I dont buy it--even a little bit.
Says the poster who loves to bash heterosexuals. :laugh:
DBF, I know that when you don't take your medications, you become psychotic. Please take your meds as prescribed. But assuming you were telling the truth (you are a consummate liar as Muman points out), if I bashed heterosexuals, what would that have to do with you????? You'd be all in the clear as far as I, and anyone else who can read a book, can see. You and one or two other members here know more about homosexuality than anyone, any of us have ever met combined. I mean you constantly talk about 'butch sodomites' vs. 'effeminate queers.' Let's face it girl: you know more about faggotry than 99.999 percent of the population!!! What is with that brother? Do you get your knickers in a twist when your monthly issue of playgirl is late? Come on, your secret is safe (well not really) with your brothas and sistas at JTF, mm hmmm
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Voo-yoo, tell me when Christian members pushed Christian doctrine at JTF.
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JTFenthusiast - your last post is way over the line. Very unlike you. I don't consider you mean spirited. You are way more intelligent then that.
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Respectfully, it's not right to do this out in the open. If both of you need to sort out your misunderstandings do so privately, please.
Ruby,
You started thsi thread and you bash plenty of people. You're just selective in who you go after, Muman being your all time favorite. I dont buy it--even a little bit.
I can't remember Ruby ever bashed anyone except for trolls.
I posted something wrong that caused hurt feelings but I'm trying to figure out what it was with some private messages. I think I did do something wrong but I'm not sure exactly what it was yet.
I don't think you did do something wrong, Rubystars.
JTFenthusiast - Why was it wrong for Ruby to start this thread?
Being told that you are worse then your worst enemy...it's not a nice feeling.
At least Ruby is a decent enough person to realize how hurtful that is.
That is why she put herself out there to defend the Catholic members.
Don't you think something is wrong when you can drive a staunch ally away?
You can't have a better friend, or ally, then MasterWolf.
I think Chaim can vouch for MasterWolf on that front.
Muman, in my opinion, should not presume to question how I practice my faith. What doctrines of the church I choose to follow. I would never do that to him. I would never make fun of his beliefs. A word like Jeebus (which he uses often) is offensive to Christians. I can tell you that. Maybe other members are afraid to say that. The last time, I just tried to ignore that he wrote it that way. Maybe, just maybe, that is why people are on the offensive when it comes to him.
Now...I know that a truce was called within the last few posts of this thread. I do realize that. Still, I had to speak my peace. Sorry.
Thank you, Ruby. I appreciate that you stuck your neck out to defend the Catholic friends you have on the forum. BullCat
BullCat3,
I have explained why I said what I said. Concerning the issues you bring up, we can discuss them in private messages rather than continue this thread. I do not do things in order to offend others. I say things which I believe my faith teaches me to do. I am sorry if I have said things which irritate you.
I do not believe that your faith instructs you to write Jeebus.
I have many Jewish friends. We are respectful of each other. They would never think to do that. So I can't understand why you want me to believe that is part of your faith.
Not one of them ever told me that their religion expected them to make fun of mine.
In fact, I never heard the expression Jeebus until I met you.
I live in New York where there are a lot of Jewish people.
I don't really use private message. If we have something to say to each other, it is best out in the open.
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I'm not sure how this thread turned into a Serbs vs. non-Serbs thread. Boyana and voo-yoo, I don't know why you two feel the need to leave. You can have whatever opinion of Catholicism you desire, and neither of you have ever caused trouble. Nobody has a problem with you and Serbs in general thinking the Vatican is evil. This was never about you to begin with and I'm not sure why you feel that it is. Of course Chaim and the rest of us, Catholic members included, know what was done to Serbs in the name of Catholicism.
What this is really about is one poster here who is constantly making snide insults against Christians in general (and yes, Orthodox are included within that), and then pretends to have accidentally misspoken. If you want that person to win, go ahead and leave. If you don't, continue to post at JTF.
I didn't say I wanted to leave. That would be only in case if Chaim says that the Pope and his organization are not to be spoken of in negative context. I wouldn't accept that. That doesn't mean I would bash Catholic theology. For me, the Pope is a politician.
About Muman, I don't have a problem with him. He wouldn't speak about "Jeebus" if some Christian members didn't feel the the need to constantly mention Christian holidays, what Jesus said etc. This is after all, a Jewish forum. There are many other theological forums, this one is primarily political. And let's be honest here, Jews have every right to be suspicious about Christianity. 2000 years of history prove that. As I see it, every non Jew is here to show support as an individual, not as a member of some church or a nation, because churches and nations don't support Israel and Jews.
What?
Muman brings up Christianity and Catholics more then any Catholic member of the forum does.
Remember there were Christian members here long before Muman, and some other agitators, and there was never this level of tension.
So stop it.
BC3,
You will note that it was not I who started this topic, nor the other topic on Catholicism, nor the topic about the Pope....How am I the one to blame for this? My original response has already been duplicated 2-3 times in this thread and I will not duplicate it again. I said what I said, it was not intended to be offensive to anyone...
I do regret calling into question the religiousity of Catholics. I do not intend to tell them what a good Catholic is. I drew a comparison to what my opinion of the reform-movement in Judaism is to those who do not abide by the teachings of the Church. But I am not the final judge or jury on this. From my Jewish perspective I do not decide if the Torah is right or wrong, I judge myself according to the absolute measure of the Torah. Sometimes {many times} I am lacking, and many times I fulfill the demands of the Torah. In those areas I am lacking I seek to strengthen myself, in those I have observed I try to make myself stronger in understanding. I do not discard parts of the Torah which I find inconvenient to my own personal life. I try to fit my life into the Torah perspective.
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JTFenthusiast - your last post is way over the line. Very unlike you. I don't consider you mean spirited. You are way more intelligent then that.
If he can dish it out, so can I. I dont hear any of you saying anything when he drives other members away or makes our forum look to the outsider like a Jewish version of a Fred Phelps' get together. Too bad if he doesnt like it. It's the LEAST he f-ing deserves. Sorry, but I've had enough from this punk.
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You started thsi thread and you bash plenty of people. You're just selective in who you go after, Muman being your all time favorite. I dont buy it--even a little bit.
Says the poster who loves to bash heterosexuals. :laugh:
DBF, I know that when you don't take your medications, you become psychotic. Please take your meds as prescribed. But assuming you were telling the truth (you are a consummate liar as Muman points out), if I bashed heterosexuals, what would that have to do with you????? You'd be all in the clear as far as I, and anyone else who can read a book, can see. You and one or two other members here know more about homosexuality than anyone, any of us have ever met combined. I mean you constantly talk about 'butch sodomites' vs. 'effeminate queers.' Let's face it girl: you know more about faggotry than 99.999 percent of the population!!! What is with that brother? Do you get your knickers in a twist when your monthly issue of playgirl is late? Come on, your secret is safe (well not really) with your brothas and sistas at JTF, mm hmmm
JTFenthusiast2 I have to say your post here is very disappointing... This is not like you to post this way... DBF has been here with us for years... He has always been a good member...What your saying about him is really not nice... Its very bad to cast that sort of aspersion on someone you really don't know... DBF may have a posting style that is different then other members here however I don't see what that has to do with his personal life... I think you owe DBF an apology.
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
Muman, by you saying that you have no respect for Catholicism it means you have no respect for Catholics in general.
When people read that first sentence they will get the impression you hate Catholics because they believe in Catholism.
When I first read this answer from you that was the feeling I got that you hate Catholics.
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You started thsi thread and you bash plenty of people. You're just selective in who you go after, Muman being your all time favorite. I dont buy it--even a little bit.
Says the poster who loves to bash heterosexuals. :laugh:
DBF, I know that when you don't take your medications, you become psychotic. Please take your meds as prescribed. But assuming you were telling the truth (you are a consummate liar as Muman points out), if I bashed heterosexuals, what would that have to do with you????? You'd be all in the clear as far as I, and anyone else who can read a book, can see. You and one or two other members here know more about homosexuality than anyone, any of us have ever met combined. I mean you constantly talk about 'butch sodomites' vs. 'effeminate queers.' Let's face it girl: you know more about faggotry than 99.999 percent of the population!!! What is with that brother? Do you get your knickers in a twist when your monthly issue of playgirl is late? Come on, your secret is safe (well not really) with your brothas and sistas at JTF, mm hmmm
JTFenthusiast2 I have to say your post here is very disappointing... This is not like you to post this way... DBF has been here with us for years... He has always been a good member...What your saying about him is really not nice... Its very bad to cast that sort of aspersion on someone you really don't know... DBF may have a posting style that is different then other members here however I don't see what that has to do with his personal life... I think you owe DBF an apology.
Perhaps, but DBF reacts this way to him all the time. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
I suggest both members work out their conflict through private message where there is less tendency to "flame" one another and it is more geared toward true understanding of each other. Both should cease the attacks.
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Lock this thread somebody...and throw away the key...
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You started thsi thread and you bash plenty of people. You're just selective in who you go after, Muman being your all time favorite. I dont buy it--even a little bit.
Says the poster who loves to bash heterosexuals. :laugh:
DBF, I know that when you don't take your medications, you become psychotic. Please take your meds as prescribed. But assuming you were telling the truth (you are a consummate liar as Muman points out), if I bashed heterosexuals, what would that have to do with you????? You'd be all in the clear as far as I, and anyone else who can read a book, can see. You and one or two other members here know more about homosexuality than anyone, any of us have ever met combined. I mean you constantly talk about 'butch sodomites' vs. 'effeminate queers.' Let's face it girl: you know more about faggotry than 99.999 percent of the population!!! What is with that brother? Do you get your knickers in a twist when your monthly issue of playgirl is late? Come on, your secret is safe (well not really) with your brothas and sistas at JTF, mm hmmm
JTFenthusiast2 I have to say your post here is very disappointing... This is not like you to post this way... DBF has been here with us for years... He has always been a good member...What your saying about him is really not nice... Its very bad to cast that sort of aspersion on someone you really don't know... DBF may have a posting style that is different then other members here however I don't see what that has to do with his personal life... I think you owe DBF an apology.
I dont owe him shi* and shame on you for taking up for him.
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Thank you KWBRT. That's exactly right! DBF and his closet buddies do just that.
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Im sorry but I dont respect Catholicism. History shows the Jews that the Catholic church is our enemy. How many Jews were sent to their deaths by Catholic priests, how many Inquisitions, how many popes who lecture about Jews being devils and that the church replaced the Jewish people as the Chosen nation?
I do not forgive the church. I do not hold what the church did to the Jewish people against those who may have been born into this religion. But I cannot understand how someone can call themselves Catholic yet reject the basic tenets of the religion? This is like those non-Orthodox Jews who try to tell the world what Judaism is... Those Catholics who do not listen to the pope are not good Catholics.... Those who do not follow the pronouncements of the person deemed by the Catholic religion to be the mouthpiece of their messiah and gods..
I will condemn the church to everlasting suffering...
Muman, by you saying that you have no respect for Catholicism it means you have no respect for Catholics in general.
When people read that first sentence they will get the impression you hate Catholics because they believe in Catholism.
When I first read this answer from you that was the feeling I got that you hate Catholics.
I don't hate Catholics. But it is true that from my position there are some very important theological problems with the entire history of Catholic theology. Now I don't want to re-iterate the differences again. But I have related an incident {in previous posts} when I was a young boy a friend of mine, who was Catholic, told me that he was taught that Jews go to hell and are from the devil. I was shocked at that age to learn that they were being taught to hate Jews. When I grew up and wondered why there was so much hatred against the Jewish people it made sense to me, that antisemitism is sometimes taught in the churches.
Now many years have gone by. And I too want to believe that the Church wants to reconcile with the Jewish people. But things are not progressing very quickly.
I agree that the many righteous Catholics who are JTF members are a testament to the good nature of some Catholics. I am very honored to know you and I appreciate the effort you spend to support JTF and the Jewish people. If only these sentiments could make it up to the leaders of the Church who have a lot of resources at their disposal...
It is very sad that we have these kinds of distractions every few months...
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You started thsi thread and you bash plenty of people. You're just selective in who you go after, Muman being your all time favorite. I dont buy it--even a little bit.
Says the poster who loves to bash heterosexuals. :laugh:
DBF, I know that when you don't take your medications, you become psychotic. Please take your meds as prescribed. But assuming you were telling the truth (you are a consummate liar as Muman points out), if I bashed heterosexuals, what would that have to do with you????? You'd be all in the clear as far as I, and anyone else who can read a book, can see. You and one or two other members here know more about homosexuality than anyone, any of us have ever met combined. I mean you constantly talk about 'butch sodomites' vs. 'effeminate queers.' Let's face it girl: you know more about faggotry than 99.999 percent of the population!!! What is with that brother? Do you get your knickers in a twist when your monthly issue of playgirl is late? Come on, your secret is safe (well not really) with your brothas and sistas at JTF, mm hmmm
JTFenthusiast2 I have to say your post here is very disappointing... This is not like you to post this way... DBF has been here with us for years... He has always been a good member...What your saying about him is really not nice... Its very bad to cast that sort of aspersion on someone you really don't know... DBF may have a posting style that is different then other members here however I don't see what that has to do with his personal life... I think you owe DBF an apology.
I dont owe him shi* and shame on you for taking up for him.
Well that's up to you.... Yes on this one I stand with DBF 100%
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Hello everyone. I'm going to step in here and lock this thread shortly. But first I want to say a few things.
Muman, Chaim has said in the past that religious Jews can use the word "Yeshu" to describe Jesus. So I don't understand the need to use the Simpson's version of his name, especially when it bothers other members here.
As for the Roman Catholic Church, we're all in agreement about their terrible history towards the Jews and Serbs. No one is asking you to forgive the church. There was nothing in any thread here about that.
Also, we Jews have our own beliefs G-d. The Christians/Catholics have a different view. Why beat them over the head about it? When Bullcat3 and Viper write that they have never been taught to hate Jews, and that they were never taught to believe that Jews killed Jesus, I frankly, am inclined to believe them. Why else do you think they would post here, and come to the JTF meetings? If the topic comes to discussing our differences, I don't understand why it can't be done respectfully. In all my time here, I have never seen Chaim tell a Christian on the forum, or in person, that his messiah is false. Come to think of it, I've never seen heard other religious Jews here like Kahane Was Right BT, Lubab, who is a Rabbi, Shlomo, Mishmaat, or David Ben Ze'ev Aryeh ever post such a thing here.
In short, please don't take it out your hatred of the RCC on the individual Catholics here, who have been with us from the very beginning. That also means not writing that they're somehow "fake" Catholics for not believing that Jews killed Jesus. (The RCC hasn't held that position officially since the Second Vatican Council of 1964.)
For our great Serb members, I also understand your feelings about the RCC. No one here is attempting to white wash what the RCC has done. But please remember what Chaim said a while back on a past Ask JTF show about conservative Catholics in the United States, and how they can potentially be allies for the struggle of Serbian independence.
Anyway, I'll leave this thread open a bit longer, then I'm locking it, since it's already nine pages long.