JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on November 10, 2011, 05:31:35 AM
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IDF:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuB2Ov280Kk
VS
settlers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvgE9SVbDx4
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1) I find it hard to believe that the IDF soldier runs away because he's afraid of the little child. It is likely that there is a greater danger that is not shown by the film, like other ennemies coming towards him in the background.
2) Baruch Goldstein is by no means representative of the average Israeli settler; how many settlers have behaved like Baruch Goldstein ? What Baruch Goldstein did was unique. Not only the usual settler does not behave like Baruch Goldstein, but I am not certain at all that most settlers approve of Baruch Goldstein's shooting in a mosque.
3) It's interesting to see that your source comes from Arab propaganda
4) Have you ever been in the field ? Does it occur to you that the tasks of an IDF soldier might be a little more difficult and dangerous than typing on a computer ? How do you know for sure how YOU would react if you have never been in the field ?
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1) I find it hard to believe that the IDF soldier runs away because he's afraid of the little child. It is likely that there is a greater danger that is not shown by the film, like other ennemies coming towards him in the background.
2) Baruch Goldstein is by no means representative of the average Israeli settler; how many settlers have behaved like Baruch Goldstein ? What Baruch Goldstein did was unique. Not only the usual settler does not behave like Baruch Goldstein, but I am not certain at all that most settlers approve of Baruch Goldstein's shooting in a mosque.
3) It's interesting to see that your source comes from Arab propaganda
4) Have you ever been in the field ? Does it occur to you that the tasks of an IDF soldier might be a little more difficult and dangerous than typing on a computer ? How do you know for sure how YOU would react if you have never been in the field ?
yaacov, are you saying this because you don't like Ron and now take opposite opinions to him because of that? Or are you really being serious with this type of statement?
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yaacov, are you saying this because you don't like Ron and now take opposite opinions to him because of that? Or are you really being serious with this type of statement?
What are you driving at exactly ? I thought this was a place for debating. Well, I am discussing a controversial post. If you don't agree with what I am saying, please make your point.
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What are you driving at exactly ? I thought this was a place for debating. Well, I am discussing a controversial post. If you don't agree with what I am saying, please make your point.
On a previous post you suggested that your were proud of committing certain sins against judaism and it seemed as a way to provoke Ron. So I'm not exactly sure if you are trying to create a debate by playing devil's advocate with Ron.
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On a previous post you suggested that your were proud of committing certain sins against judaism and it seemed as a way to provoke Ron. So I'm not exactly sure if you are trying to create a debate by playing devil's advocate with Ron.
Yea I saw that. The part where he says his father isn't Jewish, well, thats not his fault (and he still is Jewish by Halacha) but where he goes on to bragg how he married a shiksa, I understand why fourth Philosophy would attack him because of that.
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He disclosed that he is married to a non Jew. I never saw him brag about it.
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I mean come on...You're not supposed to go out there and say, "I'm a Jew and I'm proud to have done something against my religion."... That's what Deformed and Conserved Jews do.
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Yea I saw that. The part where he says his father isn't Jewish, well, thats not his fault (and he still is Jewish by Halacha) but where he goes on to bragg how he married a shiksa, I understand why fourth Philosophy would attack him because of that.
1) My wife is not a "shiksa". You know that it is a pejorative word so you are deliberately disrespectful.
2) I did not brag that I married a non-Jew. I said I love my wife even if she is not Jewish. There is a big difference.
3) You know nothing about me, about my life, about what I went through, so just mind your own business.
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On a previous post you suggested that your were proud of committing certain sins against judaism and it seemed as a way to provoke Ron. So I'm not exactly sure if you are trying to create a debate by playing devil's advocate with Ron.
1) What exactly in my response to Ron suggests that I am playing the devil's advocate ?
2) You are not my mother nor my rabbi, so please spare me the lecture about the "sins" I commit against judaism.
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I mean come on...You're not supposed to go out there and say, "I'm a Jew and I'm proud to have done something against my religion."... That's what Deformed and Conserved Jews do.
I have never showed disrespect for the orthodox Jews on this forum because I know this is a kahanist forum and I respect that.
But I have always made it clear that I am NOT an orthodox Jew and that I defend liberty of conscience. If you can't tolerate it, then ban me, you're the man in charge.
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Excuse me, but when did Yaakov ever say he was "proud" of committing sins against Judaism? He's not Orthodox, but that's not a crime. I mean, I'm not as observant as some of the more religious Jews here either.
From what I understand, he posted that he was much more non-religious and assimilated in his younger days when he married his non-Jewish wife, whom he still loves. He also wrote in the past about how he's becoming closer to his Jewish roots. And only yesterday, he posted that his father is not-Jewish. But so what? Obviously he didn't appreciate his wife being called a shiksa cow.
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Excuse me, but when did Yaakov ever say he was "proud" of committing sins against Judaism? He's not Orthodox, but that's not a crime. I mean, I'm not as observant as some of the more religious Jews here either.
From what I understand, he posted that he was much more non-religious and assimilated in his younger days when he married his non-Jewish wife, whom he still loves. He also wrote in the past about how he's becoming closer to his Jewish roots. And only yesterday, he posted that his father is not-Jewish. But so what? Obviously he didn't appreciate his wife being called a shiksa cow.
I agree with Lisa
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I mean come on...You're not supposed to go out there and say, "I'm a Jew and I'm proud to have done something against my religion."... That's what Deformed and Conserved Jews do.
I never saw him say he was proud of doing something against the Jewish religion.
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Yaakov is usually a loud voice of reason. JTF should be proud to have him.
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1) I find it hard to believe that the IDF soldier runs away because he's afraid of the little child. It is likely that there is a greater danger that is not shown by the film, like other ennemies coming towards him in the background.
You just can't face it: Israeli soldiers (who I'm sure you've never even met) are girly cowards. It's not the first time they run from Arab children with rocks.
Not only the usual settler does not behave like Baruch Goldstein,
Yea, and you know why? because the Israeli army arms and protects the Nazis and tortures the Jews. A Jew who dares to shoot an Arab who attacks him is arrested and thrown to jail by the Israeli Hamas, so you could only imagine what would happen to a Jew who slaughters dozens of Arabs.
But don't worry, this will change when the settlers buy brains and understand who is the real enemy: your army of worthless faggots.
3) It's interesting to see that your source comes from Arab propaganda
"Arab propaganda" lol.. who cares who takes the film?
4) Have you ever been in the field ? Does it occur to you that the tasks of an IDF soldier might be a little more difficult and dangerous than typing on a computer ? How do you know for sure how YOU would react if you have never been in the field ?
LOL, so you justify his cowardice!
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I have been meaning to make this point to Chaim on Ask JTF for a long time but this seems like a good place to do it.
One thing that I think holds JTF back is the negative tone of it's messengers. I am not talking about ideology but the way the message gets delivered. It seems like we can't wait to jump on someone. I think Chaim unintentionally sets the tone for this. When he refers to everyone who he has a disagrement with as "piece of excrement", "traitors" etc. it sets a tone. While I have no problem with being strident and taking strong positions we sometimes come across as people who do nothing but complain and that is not going to advance the cause. People (at least those who achieve and can be contributors) don't want to associate with people who are angry and negative all the time. This is not a Larry David show.
I think we see this rub off on young guys like Ron and Brennan Fan (or whatever name he uses now) who think the correct way to communicate is to insult, trash and demean.
I met settlers who were building homes in unauthorized outposts, who might see years of labor and significant money taken from them. I met a man from Amona who is next on the list to have his home destroyed.
Some of these people served in elite units of the IDF. I think they would all vehemently disagree that the Yesha Council people are traitors. One referred to the Price Tag people as a---oles We might disagree with some of these opinions but we should recongnize
these people as good people who agree with us on 90% of important issues rather than concentrate on the small number of areas of disagreement. We are a tiny minority of a tiny minority we should at least be able to get along with our own.
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1) What exactly in my response to Ron suggests that I am playing the devil's advocate ?
You really don't get it? it's so obvious that the soldier in the video is a coward that only a nasty devil's advocate could argue the opposite.
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You really don't get it? it's so obvious that the soldier in the video is a coward that only a nasty devil's advocate could argue the opposite.
Why would you take pleasure in seeing an Arab throwing rocks at a Jewish soldier get the best of him? Do you feel more affiliation with the Arab?
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Why would you take pleasure in seeing an Arab throwing rocks at a Jewish soldier get the best of him? Do you feel more affiliation with the Arab?
It's not a Jew but a Druze. Not that it matters. Most of the soldiers who beat little Jewish boys and girls are Jewish.
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It's not a Jew but a Druze. Not that it matters. Most of the soldiers who beat little Jewish boys and girls are Jewish.
Ron, there are some awful people in the IDF, I get it. What I don't get is what you are trying to accomplish. Do you want the IDF abolished so the Arabs can cross the border and massacre Jews throughout Israel? Do you want the British to come back and rule Israel? Do you want the UN to rule Israel?
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Yaacov. My apologies. I went back to that locked thread and reread what you wrote. I took it st the wrong context.
And as far as banning, why would I do that to you even if we disagreed in something?
And as far as the videos posted, they don't prove don't point that the idf are afraid of children and that religious Jews want to murder people. Those two videos are Muslim Nazi videos. And very disturbing what they teach fellow Arabs.
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Yaakov Mendel is a good Jew. The people who are attacking him are insane.
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Yaacov. My apologies. I went back to that locked thread and reread what you wrote. I took it st the wrong context.
And as far as banning, why would I do that to you even if we disagreed in something?
And as far as the videos posted, they don't prove don't point that the idf are afraid of children and that religious Jews want to murder people. Those two videos are Muslim Nazi videos. And very disturbing what they teach fellow Arabs.
Dr Dan, I have absolutely no grudge against you. You know all the good things I think about you. Even though we've never met face to face, I would welcome you any time as a long-standing friend.
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He's not Orthodox, but that's not a crime. I mean, I'm not as observant as some of the more religious Jews here either.
Obviously he didn't appreciate his wife being called a shiksa cow.
Uhhh yes. That's like saying i'm an American citizen I wave the American flag, go to BBQ on the 4th of July, eat turkey on thanksgiving, but I cheat on my taxes, rob people, don't follow the rules of the country (the constitution), and do other illegal things. BUT BUT BUT I'm a proud American.
I never called her a "shiksa cow". Just a shiksa, and you can believe me or not, but when I said shiksa I didn't have anything negative in mind (on her, at least). He took shiksa negatively and you are even now adding cow (LOL). But from what I know Shiksa is a non-Jewess. Just like Goy is a non-Jew.
And about people not being observant is concerned. (maybe) fine. It is between you and G-D, but why bragg about it on the forum, or anywhere else for that matter. For example lets say someone eats pig. The fact they ate pig is already terrible. But then to eat pig and tell others about it and how you love it, and encourage others to then not see it as much of a crime is MUCH MUCH MUCH worse then the original crime of eating your pig. At least do it in private if your that much not in control.
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Yaakov Mendel is a good Jew. The people who are attacking him are insane.
Thank you DBF (that's the name I still associate you with !), I sincerely appreciate your words because I know they are genuine.
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I don't think insulting member's wives is a way to make the forum grow. I think some of you folks that crossed over here from the Hebrew forum are just trying your best to sabotage this board and hurting people in the process.
Unlike Goyim which can be insulting or not based on context, I've never seen anyone use the word 'shiksa' except to be insulting.
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I have nothing against Yaakov and believe he is a good Jew.... But I must say that intermarriage is a very grave problem for the Jewish people. It is nothing to be 'proud' about and certainly something for which a Jew must feel bad about. I know this from personal experience {as some here know}... But Jews, especially those who expect to be observant and keep Hashems commandments, must not marry non-Jewish women. I am lucky that I did not have any children from my marriage with a non-Jew.... I was divorced in 2003....
My entire family has been destroyed by intermarriage {Jewish wise}...
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Uhhh yes. That's like saying i'm an American citizen I wave the American flag, go to BBQ on the 4th of July, eat turkey on thanksgiving, but I cheat on my taxes, rob people, don't follow the rules of the country (the constitution), and do other illegal things. BUT BUT BUT I'm a proud American.
I never called her a "shiksa cow". Just a shiksa, and you can believe me or not, but when I said shiksa I didn't have anything negative in mind (on her, at least). He took shiksa negatively and you are even now adding cow (LOL). But from what I know Shiksa is a non-Jewess. Just like Goy is a non-Jew.
And about people not being observant is concerned. (maybe) fine. It is between you and G-D, but why bragg about it on the forum, or anywhere else for that matter. For example lets say someone eats pig. The fact they ate pig is already terrible. But then to eat pig and tell others about it and how you love it, and encourage others to then not see it as much of a crime is MUCH MUCH MUCH worse then the original crime of eating your pig. At least do it in private if your that much not in control.
1) Lisa didn't accuse you of using the expression "shiksa cow", it wasn't you that she was referring to.
2) For the last time, I never bragged about violating mitzvot, nor did I ever attack orthodox Jews, so why not leave this futile controversy and move on to something more constructive ?
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I don't think insulting member's wives is a way to make the forum grow. I think some of you folks that crossed over here from the Hebrew forum are just trying your best to sabotage this board and hurting people in the process.
Unlike Goyim which can be insulting or not based on context, I've never seen anyone use the word 'shiksa' except to be insulting.
True Goy means nation even Jews are called Goy Gadol a big Nation .[Actually there are only about 13 million in the world] but shiksa isn't even a Hebrew term i don't know the translation but I'm pretty sure it's derogatory
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@Tag Mahir, I was not referring to you when I wrote about Yaakov's wife being called a "shiksa cow." It was another member who did so in a private message.
Also, I have never ever seen Yaakov bragging about not being observant, etc. From what I've seen, he just mentioned that not being especially observant, which is not the same as bragging. So can we please all let this go?
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@Tag Mahir, I was not referring to you when I wrote about Yaakov's wife being called a "shiksa cow." It was another member who did so in a private message.
Also, I have never ever seen Yaakov bragging about not being observant, etc. From what I've seen, he just mentioned that not being especially observant, which is not the same as bragging. So can we please all let this go?
And tag machir, I completely read yaacov's comment on a locked thread out of context. He never mentioned being proud of anything unjewish. Completely my bad that I claimed that he did.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiksa
Derivation
The word shiksa is etymologically partly derived from the Hebrew term שקץ, sheketz, which means "abomination", "impure," or "object of loathing", depending on the translator.[3]
Several dictionaries define "shiksa" as a disparaging and offensive term applied to a non-Jewish girl or woman.[4]
In polish language "siksa" (pronounced "s'eeksa") is a popular pejorative word for an immature young girl or teenage girl, as it is a conflation between the Yiddish term and usage of the Polish verb "sikać" ("to piss", "to urinate"). It means "pisspants" and is roughly equivalent to the English terms "snot-nosed brat", "little squirt", or "kid".[5]
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But I must say that intermarriage is a very grave problem for the Jewish people.
I don't deny that (as you probably remember from previous discussions). I never said that other Jews should do like me. But the root of the problem lies in the lack of Jewish education. Like many other Jews in my generation, I grew up in an assimilated family, both my parents were atheists, and I had almost no connection to Judaism during all these years. So no wonder that when I met a wonderful young woman in my early twenties, it didn't bother me that she was not Jewish.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiksa
Derivation
The word shiksa is etymologically partly derived from the Hebrew term שקץ, sheketz, which means "abomination", "impure," or "object of loathing", depending on the translator.[3]
Several dictionaries define "shiksa" as a disparaging and offensive term applied to a non-Jewish girl or woman.[4]
In polish language "siksa" (pronounced "s'eeksa") is a popular pejorative word for an immature young girl or teenage girl, as it is a conflation between the Yiddish term and usage of the Polish verb "sikać" ("to piss", "to urinate"). It means "pisspants" and is roughly equivalent to the English terms "snot-nosed brat", "little squirt", or "kid".[5]
I never knew it had Heb i thought it was slavic or Eastern European it's derogatory anyhow
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One more thing.
I've never ever bragged about not being as religious as some of the other Jews here. I only mention it when the topic comes up, or when it has come up before.
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Mord its Kadosh, not Gadol. I'm pretty sure it wasn't referring to numbers, because even then G-D says its not because you are a numerous nation that I choose you.
Lisa didn't say you bragged,
And Dr. Dan I did see it in the locked thread as well. (Cant see it now b/c its not here) but when I saw what he wrote about being in love with his "non-Jewish" wife, all I said is I understand the 4th philosophy attacking him.
Whatever, I'm not going to change his mind (at least not now), soo I'm not getting involved. But its definitely a huge problem, and is the silent holocaust. (Bigger then the one 60 years ago). And Thank G-D I don't have anyone assimilated in my family- And I come from a family and culture of Proud Jews. (Sefardi Baby).
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Yea I saw that. The part where he says his father isn't Jewish, well, thats not his fault (and he still is Jewish by Halacha) but where he goes on to bragg how he married a shiksa, I understand why fourth Philosophy would attack him because of that.
It seems you have been following the forum quite intensively before finally signing up with this catchy named account. Interesting.
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It seems you have been following the forum quite intensively before finally signing up with this catchy named account. Interesting.
Umm he said that yesterday (both statements) and it was locked and away. I don't know who he or you are.
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Mord its Kadosh, not Gadol. I'm pretty sure it wasn't referring to numbers, because even then G-D says its not because you are a numerous nation that I choose you.
Lisa didn't say you bragged,
And Dr. Dan I did see it in the locked thread as well. (Cant see it now b/c its not here) but when I saw what he wrote about being in love with his "non-Jewish" wife, all I said is I understand the 4th philosophy attacking him.
Whatever, I'm not going to change his mind (at least not now), soo I'm not getting involved. But its definitely a huge problem, and is the silent holocaust. (Bigger then the one 60 years ago). And Thank G-D I don't have anyone assimilated in my family- And I come from a family and culture of Proud Jews. (Sefardi Baby).
One step at a time for all Jews with religiosity. Yaacov is a good Jew and improving everyday hopefully.
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when I saw what he wrote about being in love with his "non-Jewish" wife, all I said is I understand the 4th philosophy attacking him.
Do you consider it a crime to love someone who is not Jewish ? Do you think that non-Jews are not worthy of being loved ?
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Do you consider it a crime to love someone who is not Jewish ? Do you think that non-Jews are not worthy of being loved ?
Not romantically. You can love and honor a Noahide (a righteous Gentile).
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So Ron, are those Christians in Europe who sheltered/saved Jews during WWII not righteous?
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Do you consider it a crime to love someone who is not Jewish ? Do you think that non-Jews are not worthy of being loved ?
Like 4th said- Not romantically. Its another would be Jewish family lost.
Not worthy of being loved?
A Jew is required to love religious Jews who share in his/her commitment to Torah and Mitzwoth. Definitly not non-Jews. Can and should respect others. Thats for sure, but reserve the loving to Torah-observant Jews. Also maybe Jews who aren't that much Torah observant but try to do the right thing. (This is a big discussion I know Rabbi Kahane brings this down, maybe ill find it in Or Harayon later, also Rambam and R' Yosef Karo talk about it as well)- That is about sinners and which type of sins and how one does them. For example if it is desire and someone fell into it. For example eating pork. It is a crime, but how one comes to it is different between people. 1 person could be eating non-kosher beef because its cheaper or he was very hungry and couldn't hold himself, or it tastes better, and if he had the chance he would be eating only kosher instead. That is a sinner but in a lower level then the person who has both kosher and non-kosher in front of him, all the same and he specifically chooses the non-kosher one. (Obviously this is only an example, but my point is that their are different levels of "sin" even the same exact act has different levels- intentions and damages) And their are distinguishes between how the person commits these crimes.
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This is also very much addressed here
Prayer for the Wicked
Do you have an obligation to pray for your brother who falls ill? Is he still "your brother" if he is a rebel who violates the Torah? There is good reason to rejoice when an evil person dies. It's not always right to love. Dysfunctional Jews don't know how to hate their enemy.
Download the Shiur
Source Sheet: Should You Pray for an Evil Person Who Falls Ill?
Source Sheet: Practical Guide to Love & Hatred
"YOU THAT LOVE HASHEM — HATE EVIL!" (Tehillim 97:10)
http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/list-audio-shiurim/41-audiohalakha/501-prayer-for-the-wicked
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Like 4th said- Not romantically. Its another would be Jewish family lost.
Not worthy of being loved?
A Jew is required to love religious Jews who share in his/her commitment to Torah and Mitzwoth. Definitly not non-Jews. Can and should respect others. Thats for sure, but reserve the loving to Torah-observant Jews. Also maybe Jews who aren't that much Torah observant but try to do the right thing. (This is a big discussion I know Rabbi Kahane brings this down, maybe ill find it in Or Harayon later, also Rambam and R' Yosef Karo talk about it as well)- That is about sinners and which type of sins and how one does them. For example if it is desire and someone fell into it. For example eating pork. It is a crime, but how one comes to it is different between people. 1 person could be eating non-kosher beef because its cheaper or he was very hungry and couldn't hold himself, or it tastes better, and if he had the chance he would be eating only kosher instead. That is a sinner but in a lower level then the person who has both kosher and non-kosher in front of him, all the same and he specifically chooses the non-kosher one. (Obviously this is only an example, but my point is that their are different levels of "sin" even the same exact act has different levels- intentions and damages) And their are distinguishes between how the person commits these crimes.
So do you think that the only right thing to do for someone like me would be to leave my wife and my children in order to marry a Jewish woman ?
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If the loss of a Jewish family is the sin, then is someone who never marries and never has children sinful?
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So do you think that the only right thing to do for someone like me would be to leave my wife and my children in order to marry a Jewish woman ?
Maybe its not the only possibility available. I don't know I'm not a Rabbi. But definitely a Jew can't be with a non-Jew. And Halahically (that is legally by Jewish law) a (Jewish) man who gets a non-Jewess pregnant, the children aren't even his (halahically). Talk to your local Orthodox Rabbi. Their are options, even where one can be with that person but the status of the person changes from non-Jew to a Jew.
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Maybe its not the only possibility available. I don't know I'm not a Rabbi. But definitely a Jew can't be with a non-Jew. And Halahically (that is legally by Jewish law) a (Jewish) man who gets a non-Jewess pregnant, the children aren't even his (halahically). Talk to your local Orthodox Rabbi. Their are options, even where one can be with that person but the status of the person changes from non-Jew to a Jew.
I know the Halacha. I am not such an ignoramus on Judaism. I wanted to know your personal judgement on this moral dilemna if you have any. What would YOU do in this position ?
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Or another solution instead of the local Rabbi, first email Rav Bar Chaim Shalitta. He is very logical and exact in the Halacha (Very trustworthy and able to bring the correct Halacha and solution).
Find his info. @ Machonshilo.org
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"If the loss of a Jewish family is the sin, then is someone who never marries and never has children sinful?"
Perhaps I didn't say in clearly. Its not the ONLY sin. Being with a non-Jew is a sin in itself. And you are correct (partially). If someone (a man actually) never was married and never had children and never wants to or wanted to have children it is a big sin. If someone tries, or is planning in the future (because can't at the moment- like $ problems, or other issues- school, etc.) its 1 thing, but to never get married and never want to get married like some just want to hang at clubs and thats it "not settle down" it is a big problem and big sin as well.
Even King Hezkiyahu who saw with Holy Spirit (Ruah Hakodesh) that he was going to have a bad son, was almost punished for it. The Prophet Isaya came to him and said you will die and not live. (Die in this world and not live in the next) because you aren't and dont want to have children. Even though he was righteous and was doing soo for a good reason. To make things short he repented and G-D gave him 15 more years.
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Or another solution instead of the local Rabbi, first email Rav Bar Chaim Shalitta. He is very logical and exact in the Halacha (Very trustworthy and able to bring the correct Halacha and solution).
Find his info. @ Machonshilo.org
Thanks, I will ask him.
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I know the Halacha. I am not such an ignoramus on Judaism. I wanted to know your personal judgement on this moral dilemna if you have any. What would YOU do in this position ?
Who cares how I judge you? Who am I anyway? That's not what matters. What matters is what is right and what G-d commands of us.
Hopefully not get myself into this problem to begin with. And if already in this situation see if my partner would be willing to sincerely practice Judaism (probably by knowing her already for this time). Tell her I cant be with her since I am taking G-D's words more seriously and maybe ask her to consider converting (properly). Until then be separate, BUT perhaps the converting process can be very quickly especially in this situation (I am not an expect at this, but from the little I know, converting doesn't need to be a 2 year process as some are overextending it to be. Perhaps even a few weeks). Either way just get in touch with a Hacham and say the situation in detail. If she converts fine and well. If not I would personally separate. (And I know this is painful).
Similar situation happened at the time of Ezra when the Jews returned to Israel and many of them were married to non-Jewesses. It was ordered that they separate and as painful as it was, they did it.
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Maybe its not the only possibility available. I don't know I'm not a Rabbi. But definitely a Jew can't be with a non-Jew. And Halahically (that is legally by Jewish law) a (Jewish) man who gets a non-Jewess pregnant, the children aren't even his (halahically). Talk to your local Orthodox Rabbi. Their are options, even where one can be with that person but the status of the person changes from non-Jew to a Jew.
Yaakov is a really nice person because if it were me after reading some of the posts here on this thread I would have told a few people what they could go do to themselves... At this point would it not be better for Yaakov to expose his family to the nicer aspects of the Jewish religion instead of all this hate and disowning and have the possibility of the children eventually wanting to follow the Jewish faith? Half the Jews I have met over the years here in New York have someone in their family who is non Jewish... I think there would be a large amount of disowned families if people followed the letter of Jewish law.
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Yaakov is a really nice person because if it were me after reading some of the posts here on this thread I would have told a few people what they could go do to themselves... At this point would it not be better for Yaakov to expose his family to the nicer aspects of the Jewish religion instead of all this hate and disowning and have the possibility of the children eventually wanting to follow the Jewish faith? Half the Jews I have met over the years here in New York have someone in their family who is non Jewish... I think there would be a large amount of disowned families if people followed the letter of Jewish law.
I don't know, maybe you read it that way, but what I'm saying is actually NOT hateful and perhaps would actually help him. I was only discussing solutions (obviously he would have to take care of it himself- with a (true) Rabbi).
This is like someone with cancer (G-D forbid) and you telling the doctor you know what don't tell the patient they are I'll. Just let him be. Don't try to take a cure and do the work and perhaps be healthy. You wouldn't want to upset him.
Same thing with the situation in Israel with the Arabs. What should people like Chaim just be silent and let the country be destroyed without saying the warnings to the consequences that can come about?
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I don't know, maybe you read it that way, but what I'm saying is actually NOT hateful and perhaps would actually help him. I was only discussing solutions (obviously he would have to take care of it himself- with a (true) Rabbi).
This is like someone with cancer (G-D forbid) and you telling the doctor you know what don't tell the patient they are I'll. Just let him be. Don't try to take a cure and do the work and perhaps be healthy. You wouldn't want to upset him.
Same thing with the situation in Israel with the Arabs. What should people like Chaim just be silent and let the country be destroyed without saying the warnings to the consequences that can come about?
You make a point here however the fact remains that there are children involved that have the potential if not already to follow the Jewish faith... If he were to turn his back on them or disown them to some extent that potential would be lost.
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You make a point here however the fact remains that there are children involved that have the potential if not already to follow the Jewish faith... If he were to turn his back on them or disown them to some extent that potential would be lost.
You perhaps didn't understand me. I can sense you are not Jewish and don't understand that children are Jewish according to the mother. And yes they can become Jewish if they soo choose (as can almost any non-Jew) perhaps some would even encourage some people in these situation to. But either way this is not something someone in these situations should solve here with me and you. Like I said contact a Hacham and deal with the particular situation.
BUT definitely, definitely it would be wrong for some here to not only not be helping but even encouraging negative behavior. Making things dealing with Jewish law seem low and "not a big deal".
Most here are probably at least against homosexuality. For your own purposes replace Jew marrying "non-Jewess" to man "marrying" another man. Maybe you'll begin to understand.
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I agree with CJD about Yaakov being a nice person. He's always been respectful and he expresses himself intelligently in his posts. He has a daughter to whom he's teaching Judaism. And from what I understand, the young girl is proud of her Jewish ancestry.
I see it's very easy for people over the internet to say to someone they've never met to "do this" or "do that." But ultimately, it's between Yaakov, his family, and his rabbi. Please let's not get in his face when he's trying to make the best of his life and that of his family.
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I agree with CJD about Yaakov being a nice person. He's always been respectful and he expresses himself intelligently in his posts. He has a daughter to whom he's teaching Judaism. And from what I understand, the young girl is proud of her Jewish ancestry.
I see it's very easy for people over the internet to say to someone they've never met to "do this" or "do that." But ultimately, it's between Yaakov, his family, and his rabbi. Please let's not get in his face when he's trying to make the best of his life and that of his family.
Honestly, why did you write what you did? No one is attacking anyone here. I suggested he email Harav Bar Chaim Shalitta, and he agreed. That should have been the end of it (here on the forum).
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OK Tag, maybe I could have worded it better.
We know what Jewish law forbids marrying out, as does Yaakov. But he was assimilated and non-observant when he married. Now he's trying to make the best of everything being that he's returning to his Jewish roots. So it's easy to sit and at a keyboard and type here "I would separate," or "intermarriage is terrible," etc. Of course intermarriage is big a problem. Yaakov is well aware of that.
But you're absolutely right about him talking to a rabbi. It should be in person, and not just a one time thing.
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I have been meaning to make this point to Chaim on Ask JTF for a long time but this seems like a good place to do it.
One thing that I think holds JTF back is the negative tone of it's messengers. I am not talking about ideology but the way the message gets delivered. It seems like we can't wait to jump on someone. I think Chaim unintentionally sets the tone for this. When he refers to everyone who he has a disagrement with as "piece of excrement", "traitors" etc. it sets a tone. While I have no problem with being strident and taking strong positions we sometimes come across as people who do nothing but complain and that is not going to advance the cause. People (at least those who achieve and can be contributors) don't want to associate with people who are angry and negative all the time. This is not a Larry David show.
I think we see this rub off on young guys like Ron and Brennan Fan (or whatever name he uses now) who think the correct way to communicate is to insult, trash and demean.
I met settlers who were building homes in unauthorized outposts, who might see years of labor and significant money taken from them. I met a man from Amona who is next on the list to have his home destroyed.
Some of these people served in elite units of the IDF. I think they would all vehemently disagree that the Yesha Council people are traitors. One referred to the Price Tag people as a---oles We might disagree with some of these opinions but we should recongnize
these people as good people who agree with us on 90% of important issues rather than concentrate on the small number of areas of disagreement. We are a tiny minority of a tiny minority we should at least be able to get along with our own.
Honestly, I have always felt that one of the great strengths of Jtf is that Chaim routinely calls evil people "pieces of excrement." Most people are not willing to express to what extent traitors really are destroying their people. Calling them terms like that puts it in a different light that is essential to see. And it validates those inner feelings people (listeners) have but don't necessarily vocalize and never really grasp how serious it is. When its vocalized it puts it in proper perspective to have the right attitude toward Jewish traitors who commit expulsions of Jews or give away land to arabs, and toward american traitors who want to establish a massive tyranny of the federal govt and make americans slaves to the UN.
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I don't think insulting member's wives is a way to make the forum grow. I think some of you folks that crossed over here from the Hebrew forum are just trying your best to sabotage this board and hurting people in the process.
Unlike Goyim which can be insulting or not based on context, I've never seen anyone use the word 'shiksa' except to be insulting.
I don't believe that any of this true. Not one word.
Ok maybe one word, I did not know the origin of shiksa. It is sometimes used in a derogatory but many times I've seen it used just to refer to a non Jewish girl that is tempting for a Jewish man. For example the famous seinfeld episode with elaine lol
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True Goy means nation even Jews are called Goy Gadol a big Nation .[Actually there are only about 13 million in the world] but shiksa isn't even a Hebrew term i don't know the translation but I'm pretty sure it's derogatory
Actually the ishmaelim are called goy gadol. We are called goy echad in davening and in other places referred to with the term. You're right it does mean nation.
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It seems you have been following the forum quite intensively before finally signing up with this catchy named account. Interesting.
So what?
Lol, and this is what's going to keep members here? Bizarre insinuations?
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He has a daughter to whom he's teaching Judaism. And from what I understand, the young girl is proud of her Jewish ancestry.
Absolutely. My daughter goes to Torah classes. Her mother is very respectful of that. My daughter may not be Jewish yet according to the Halacha, but she is receiving much more Jewish education, culture and pride than I received when I was a child although I am a born Jew.
Also, there is no Christian influence whatsoever in our home because my wife, although of Christian descent, is not observant. Not that I despise Christianity, everybody knows here that I respect Christians (my grandfather was saved by a Catholic priest during WWII, by the way). But I am saying this to emphasize that my daughter is not exposed to conflicting religious influences.
So I think that proper conditions are met for my daughter to become Jewish, even if it will be up to her to decide, ultimately.
Actually, the Rabbi at her shul told me that if she continues to attend Torah classes regularly for a few years, a conversion process could be undertaken before she does her bat mitzva; but I am hesitant about that because I want to respect her liberty of conscience, so maybe I'd rather she waited to be an adult so that she can make that decision on her own.
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Half the Jews I have met over the years here in New York have someone in their family who is non Jewish... I think there would be a large amount of disowned families if people followed the letter of Jewish law.
True.
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Hopefully not get myself into this problem to begin with. And if already in this situation see if my partner would be willing to sincerely practice Judaism (probably by knowing her already for this time). Tell her I cant be with her since I am taking G-D's words more seriously and maybe ask her to consider converting (properly). Until then be separate, BUT perhaps the converting process can be very quickly especially in this situation (I am not an expect at this, but from the little I know, converting doesn't need to be a 2 year process as some are overextending it to be. Perhaps even a few weeks). Either way just get in touch with a Hacham and say the situation in detail. If she converts fine and well. If not I would personally separate. (And I know this is painful).
Similar situation happened at the time of Ezra when the Jews returned to Israel and many of them were married to non-Jewesses. It was ordered that they separate and as painful as it was, they did it.
I don't think it would be fair for me to ask my wife to convert. She didn't marry me because she wanted to live with an observant Jew. She is an honest agnostic and I respect that.
Telling my wife to convert or to go would be blackmail.
I will not leave my wife anyway. I am convinced that it would be an ugly and unfair thing to do.
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I don't think it would be fair for me to ask my wife to convert. She didn't marry me because she wanted to live with an observant Jew. She is an honest agnostic and I respect that.
Telling my wife to convert or to go would be blackmail.
I will not leave my wife anyway. I am convinced that it would be an ugly and unfair thing to do.
True besides my friend married a Scottish girl she was in the midst of converting before he meet her he told her to stop,now thats insane.She was crazier to listen to him anyways the reason he didn't want her to convert she would be orthodox and he didn't want to be orthodox
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the reason he didn't want her to convert she would be orthodox and he didn't want to be orthodox
There is some Jewish irony in this situation !
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There is some Jewish irony in this situation !
Very true
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Tag I want to commend you for your thoughtful and kind posts to yaacov.
And yaacov I want to thank you for being kind in your responses to him.
Whatever you do yaacov I hope that Gd gives you the most favorable result for you and your family. Pray for whatever He feels is best for you and family.
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So what?
Lol, and this is what's going to keep members here? Bizarre insinuations?
What does this thread or my post have to do with keeping members here?
It was about a year and a half ago that Yaakov got some attention on the forum for having married a non-Jewish wife. It is most certainly weird that a new forummember that pops up with huge forumactivity would remember that when he wasn't on the forum yet?
Your choice of words and the problem you have with my post itself are a lot more 'bizarre'.
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What does this thread or my post have to do with keeping members here?
It was about a year and a half ago that Yaakov got some attention on the forum for having married a non-Jewish wife. It is most certainly weird that a new forummember that pops up with huge forumactivity would remember that when he wasn't on the forum yet?
Your choice of words and the problem you have with my post itself are a lot more 'bizarre'.
I chose those words because lately there's been a big discusion on the forum about scaring off new members and according to some people the forum is "too Jewish." I guess you weren't part of that discussion so I should phrase my comment more constructively. When you question the motives publicly and make bizarre insinuations, it is not fair to a new member.
What you are claiming about Tag Mechir is not correct. Most of the comments in this thread with yaakov and others are referring to another thread (from like 2 days ago, not years ago), where this subject with Yaakov came up. Hence what dr dan was referring to about rereading the other thread.
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1) I find it hard to believe that the IDF soldier runs away because he's afraid of the little child. It is likely that there is a greater danger that is not shown by the film, like other ennemies coming towards him in the background.
It is NOT hard to believe, because IDF rules of engagement prohibit them from shooting Arabs who are just throwing rocks.
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It is NOT hard to believe, because IDF rules of engagement prohibit them from shooting Arabs who are just throwing rocks.
Exactly. You nailed it right on the head. There's nothing inherently wrong with an IDF soldier and no reason he would have any less courage than anyone else in battle from how he was born. But the IDF soldiers are trained and raised in a culture of cowardice whereby the idf elite castrates them and turns them against Jews and puts them in utter fear of harming an arab.