JTF.ORG Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ChabadKahanist on October 23, 2013, 05:19:42 AM

Title: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: ChabadKahanist on October 23, 2013, 05:19:42 AM
Why not make a petition to the PM & various ministers & MK's to allow Chaim into Israel.
Any thoughts?
Title: Re: I have an idea
Post by: Israel Chai on October 23, 2013, 05:54:32 AM
Great idea. I recommend that you are already in Israel first... you could still use someone's name. Make the letter and show who you're sending it to, I'll sign it.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: TruthSpreader on October 24, 2013, 08:07:41 AM
Wonderful idea.

Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Yerusha on October 24, 2013, 12:31:52 PM
In Israel petitions count for less than nothing, are laughed at, and ignored with impunity!

In Israel it's not what you know but whom you know!

Now if ChabadKahanist can use his family ties to former Shabak head Avi Dichter to pull strings to get Chaim in to Israel, then you're talking!

(http://forward.com/workspace/assets/images/articles/s-AviDichter-0822512.jpg)

Chaim is not Meyer Lansky and is not currently being sought for any crime in the USA. So the only grounds they have to debar him a 3 month tourist visa is that he is "an inciter and threat to national security and public order", unless there's more to it.

Having a past criminal record, even for petty crimes, can be used as an excuse to ban entry, but for this you need a top lawyer and $$$, which Chaim 'aint got.

Remember that in Israel just for quoting the Chumash Bamidbar 33:55, you can be arrested and deported!

Is/was JTF on the US State Dept list of "terrorist organisations" like Kach & Kahane Chai?
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: ChabadKahanist on October 24, 2013, 12:41:04 PM
In Israel petitions count for less than nothing, are laughed at, and ignored with impunity!

In Israel it's not what you know but whom you know!

Now if ChabadKahanist can use his family ties to former Shabak head Avi Dichter to pull strings to get Chaim in to Israel, then you're talking!

(http://forward.com/workspace/assets/images/articles/s-AviDichter-0822512.jpg)
That's not happening because:
A,We don't even talk to each other.
B.When I asked him to help me with something I needed he ignored me.
Talking to Avi is a lost cause.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 24, 2013, 05:09:34 PM
In Israel petitions count for less than nothing, are laughed at, and ignored with impunity!

In Israel it's not what you know but whom you know!

Now if ChabadKahanist can use his family ties to former Shabak head Avi Dichter to pull strings to get Chaim in to Israel, then you're talking!

(http://forward.com/workspace/assets/images/articles/s-AviDichter-0822512.jpg)

Chaim is not Meyer Lansky and is not currently being sought for any crime in the USA. So the only grounds they have to debar him a 3 month tourist visa is that he is "an inciter and threat to national security and public order", unless there's more to it.

Having a past criminal record, even for petty crimes, can be used as an excuse to ban entry, but for this you need a top lawyer and $$$, which Chaim 'aint got.

Remember that in Israel just for quoting the Chumash Bamidbar 33:55, you can be arrested and deported!

Is/was JTF on the US State Dept list of "terrorist organisations" like Kach & Kahane Chai?

The thing is It's worth a shot.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Mishmaat on October 24, 2013, 08:23:45 PM
It might be worthwhile to start a petition on Change.org and attempt to get 500 signatures. Start off modest.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Yerusha on October 27, 2013, 05:47:48 PM
If the typically Israeli twisted Likud Minister of the Interior Gideon Saar is prepared to release Arab killers whilst having the gall to demand Naftali Bennett to resign just for opposing the release, then Gehennom itself will freeze over before he would sign a permit letting Chaim in to Israel! http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/173264#.Um2JY-UUHn4

(http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.486371.1382297247!/image/2376424276.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_640/2376424276.jpg)
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: White Israelite on October 27, 2013, 05:50:09 PM
Is Chaim allowed to enter on a tourist visa to Israel? Or does Israel have restrictions even for temporary visits? I know that they issue a 10 year ban if for example you are an individual that is maliciously working against the Jewish people, but generally it can be appealed for those individuals, surely the government cannot permanently prevent Chaim from entering Israel?
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Yerusha on October 27, 2013, 06:57:29 PM
Are we even sure that Chaim is mustard keen on entering Israel at this time?

A precious fellow like Chaim may be safer and better off in Queens for the duration of the current regime of things, & he may be aware of this.

Just like jealous fellow Republicans are loudly denouncing, back-stabbing, informing-on and betraying Cruze, I suspect that the only thing Chaim could achieve in Israel at this time would be to be denounced, back-stabbed, informed-on and betrayed by jealous fellow 'Kahanists' & other 'Rightists'!
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on October 27, 2013, 08:41:17 PM
Can't hurt to start a petition. 
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 27, 2013, 09:06:18 PM
Are we even sure that Chaim is mustard keen on entering Israel at this time?

A precious fellow like Chaim may be safer and better off in Queens for the duration of the current regime of things, & he may be aware of this.

Just like jealous fellow Republicans are loudly denouncing, back-stabbing, informing-on and betraying Cruze, I suspect that the only thing Chaim could achieve in Israel at this time would be to be denounced, back-stabbed, informed-on and betrayed by jealous fellow 'Kahanists' & other 'Rightists'!

He might not be mustard keen, but every normal Jew wants to, and I can bet he would too. It's such a nice compliment to say precious fellow and if you had any emunah in Hashem, you would believe that G-d will best take care of those who follow him in Israel.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Dan193 on October 28, 2013, 10:17:12 AM
White Israelite, Chaim is not allowed to enter Israel on a tourist visa to Israel?
Israel has barred Chaim completely from Israel.
The reason Israel does this is because they fear Chaim will put common sense in Israelis.
Like wanting a death penalty immediately for Arab killers.
Never freeing any Arab murderers in Israeli Jails and giving them the death penalty
Removing all Arab terrorists from the Knesset.
All Arabs in Israel who's alliance is to Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Assad etc will be removed from Israel.
All Jews will be armed against Arab terrorists.
Jews will build massively in Judea and Samaria, Golan and Israeli East Jerusalem.
The Temple Mount will be rebuilt.
Most importantly, when Arab terrorists fire missiles or commit terrorist atrocities against Israeli civilians, there will be a massive response by Chaim and not these ridiculous bombing empty fields which Israelis leaders do.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Dan193 on October 28, 2013, 10:18:24 AM
I wish Chaim was PM so he can kick out the Nazi NY Times from Israel.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 28, 2013, 12:33:37 PM
K fine I'll start it; how's the wording? Do you believe that Mr. Victor Vancier should be allowed to make aliyah and move to Israel, by ending the ban on his entry to Israel that the government unjustly imposes due to his actions to free Soviet Jewry from Soviet Russia, which oppressed Jews violently and refused to allow Jews to leave Russia and move to Israel?
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 29, 2013, 01:03:25 AM
Is it good or not?
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: ChabadKahanist on October 29, 2013, 03:18:17 AM
Is it good or not?
Excellent.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Yerusha on October 29, 2013, 10:41:29 AM
The Malbim said in 1870 that the Moshiach would be an American!
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: AmericanIsraeli on October 29, 2013, 10:44:01 AM
who is chaim?
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Havok on October 29, 2013, 10:59:18 AM
who is chaim?
The leader of JTF. You know the website you joined
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: AmericanIsraeli on October 29, 2013, 11:04:52 AM
why he cant go to israel
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 29, 2013, 03:51:20 PM
K. https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/mr-victor-vancier-should-be-allowed-to-make-aliyah-and-move-to-israel-ending-the-unjust-ban-on-his-entry-to-israel-that-is-imposed-due-to-his-actions-to-free-soviet-jewry-from-soviet-russia

What letter should I write, and to who. You're supposed to need to contact someone...
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: muman613 on October 29, 2013, 03:55:32 PM
who is chaim?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSIDx3eUyaI

Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: muman613 on October 29, 2013, 04:07:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZixI47bx_k
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 29, 2013, 07:48:42 PM
OK so everyone sign the petition if there's no problem with it.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on October 29, 2013, 07:54:15 PM
OK so everyone sign the petition if there's no problem with it.
Dumb question, how would they now if these are real people?
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 29, 2013, 08:47:45 PM
Dumb question, how would they now if these are real people?

There aren't many ways of knowing, but if 10,000 people sign the petition every second, it's probably a bot. There are still legitimate petitions that have one or two false signatories signing, but overall, things like famous signatories, or people speaking out about the petition are ways to insure that there are real people on it and it is generating interest. You should sign your actual names in petitions though, because false names that come out can put doubt on the whole thing.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 29, 2013, 08:56:37 PM
Posted all over facebook. Is no one from the forum going to sign it?
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 30, 2013, 01:33:13 AM
bump
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 30, 2013, 08:57:13 PM
Reached 5 signatures

I might be doing something wrong, or not be doing something that I should do right.

If we were to write a letter for this petition to go to, who would it go to?
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on October 30, 2013, 09:07:12 PM
I hate to be a downer here, but isn't this like sending a list of names of people that are against Hitler? Am I wrong here?
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 30, 2013, 09:09:59 PM
I hate to be a downer here, but isn't this like sending a list of names of people that are against Hitler? Am I wrong here?

Yeah. People like Jabotinsky got in trouble for it. Thank G-d for him anyways. I know that's what you were asking with you fake name thing, but the answer I didn't want to have to explain is nothing bad ever came to a person from doing a mitzvah, regardless of physical illusions.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on October 30, 2013, 09:19:52 PM
I'm sorry Chaim! I don't think it would help your case if I put my name down...
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 30, 2013, 10:01:00 PM
I'm sorry Chaim! I don't think it would help your case if I put my name down...

Why are you sorry to Chaim? If this is something you care about, do it. If you're afraid for whatever reason, don't. This is probably the biggest protest activity I've seen on JTF, so it's a way to bring people together. I am not expecting that this petition will change all of Israel and bring red carpets for Chaim's arrival in Tel Aviv in a week. It gets JTF known, brings people together, and the cause might bring others here.

It's also a good cause, so sure I hope everyone signs it and it works, poor guy and everything, Israel is awesome and I can imagine how I would feel if someone told me I could never go back, I'd kiss the feet of anyone saying a word for it, but maybe even this just gives false hope, so it's not necessarily only for Chaim, and may cause emotional pain. It's for JTF, and anything that could come from it, whether it be Chaim landing in Israel, or one guy seeing it and telling someone about the forum, should be positive.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on October 30, 2013, 10:59:01 PM
Why are you sorry to Chaim? If this is something you care about, do it. If you're afraid for whatever reason, don't. This is probably the biggest protest activity I've seen on JTF, so it's a way to bring people together. I am not expecting that this petition will change all of Israel and bring red carpets for Chaim's arrival in Tel Aviv in a week. It gets JTF known, brings people together, and the cause might bring others here.

It's also a good cause, so sure I hope everyone signs it and it works, poor guy and everything, Israel is awesome and I can imagine how I would feel if someone told me I could never go back, I'd kiss the feet of anyone saying a word for it, but maybe even this just gives false hope, so it's not necessarily only for Chaim, and may cause emotional pain. It's for JTF, and anything that could come from it, whether it be Chaim landing in Israel, or one guy seeing it and telling someone about the forum, should be positive.
  1. It wouldn't help Chaim if they knew I was a supporter.

2. You just don't hand over your information to the Gestapo.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: ChabadKahanist on October 30, 2013, 11:09:19 PM
Reached 5 signatures

I might be doing something wrong, or not be doing something that I should do right.

If we were to write a letter for this petition to go to, who would it go to?
It would go to the Prime Minister,the Interiot Minister & those kneset members you think might help & also to Arutz 7.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 31, 2013, 12:39:06 AM
  1. It wouldn't help Chaim if they knew I was a supporter.

2. You just don't hand over your information to the Gestapo.

Whoa, now you're more hardcore than him?

Don't pretend like we're not all already on the list, and I'm referring to Americans in general.

It would go to the Prime Minister,the Interiot Minister & those kneset members you think might help & also to Arutz 7.

Will come up with something. If you have a better picture to put, or something I should add/change, tell me; this isn't a popularity contest for me, I just want to stir the pot, and hopefully something good comes from it.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: ChabadKahanist on October 31, 2013, 01:50:04 AM
Whoa, now you're more hardcore than him?

Don't pretend like we're not all already on the list, and I'm referring to Americans in general.

Will come up with something. If you have a better picture to put, or something I should add/change, tell me; this isn't a popularity contest for me, I just want to stir the pot, and hopefully something good comes from it.
I agree & no I don't have a better picture.
I think the contents are fine.
Why not ask Chaim his opinion?
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 31, 2013, 09:10:21 AM
I agree & no I don't have a better picture.
I think the contents are fine.
Why not ask Chaim his opinion?

Why don't you think I asked in the first place? It could detract from it if the person it was involved with was directing how the petition for him is done. Since, as stated, it is primarily, though not only about him, I guess Chaim if you have some advice on this, send it to me privately, unless I'm completely wrong again, and then wherever works.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on October 31, 2013, 11:14:06 AM
Whoa, now you're more hardcore than him?

Don't pretend like we're not all already on the list, and I'm referring to Americans in general.

Will come up with something. If you have a better picture to put, or something I should add/change, tell me; this isn't a popularity contest for me, I just want to stir the pot, and hopefully something good comes from it.
No, I'm not more hardcore than Chaim was, and I'm a good law abiding citizen in my community.

My point is... If a bunch of Ex Tag Mahir signed a petition to get him into Israel, would that help him get in?
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 31, 2013, 08:18:46 PM
No, I'm not more hardcore than Chaim was, and I'm a good law abiding citizen in my community.

My point is... If a bunch of Ex Tag Mahir signed a petition to get him into Israel, would that help him get in?

Who knows? It could.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: kahaneloyalist on October 31, 2013, 08:22:44 PM
Right now it cant hurt, the situation is totally unjust. Maybe signing will help.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on October 31, 2013, 08:52:38 PM
I would really like to hear Chaims opinion...
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Israel Chai on October 31, 2013, 09:08:29 PM
I would really like to hear Chaims opinion...

Blessed are the something or other. Like I said, don't sign it if you don't want, but don't complain about not signing it. If you feel obligated to participate, find a better picture.
Title: Re: Petition for Chaim to be allowed in Israel
Post by: Tag-MehirTzedek on November 01, 2013, 02:01:49 PM
That's not happening because:
A,We don't even talk to each other.
B.When I asked him to help me with something I needed he ignored me.
Talking to Avi is a lost cause.


http://youtu.be/pAPHwxF6tiM?t=27m47s