JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Israel Chai on April 02, 2016, 09:42:33 PM
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Some trolls just make the forum really annoying. Take the I hate Judaism guy for instance. Can he go away?
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Everyone knows the troll is going to keep making those posts no matter what anyone says, right?
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Lisa, this thread is specific and addresses why father is superior to mother in Judaism. Where in the thread did I mention anything about wife beating?
He hates Jews, because that's a lie.
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He hates Jews, because that's a lie.
I wish it WAS a lie.
I'm willing to bring valid rabbinic sources to back up my claim.
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I wish it WAS a lie.
I'm willing to bring valid rabbinic sources to back up my claim.
We've done this song and dance a hundred times, and you still can't find these oppressed Jewish women.
You hate Rambam and Torah, except sometimes when you can twist Torah to say what you want. No one cares. Go away.
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We've done this song and dance a hundred times, and you still can't find these oppressed Jewish women.
You hate Rambam and Torah, except sometimes when you can twist Torah to say what you want. No one cares. Go away.
Please read this:
http://dafyomi.co.il/erchin/halachah/er-hl-025.htm
http://dafyomi.shemayisrael.co.il/kerisus/halachah/kr-hl-028.htm
I don't twist the Torah; those rabbis did.
And please, I have no desire discussing it here. I've already opened the whole thread:
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,82832.0.html?PHPSESSID=slqkocv7i8oakmiild2f00loq5
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Please read this:
http://dafyomi.co.il/erchin/halachah/er-hl-025.htm
http://dafyomi.shemayisrael.co.il/kerisus/halachah/kr-hl-028.htm
I don't twist the Torah; those rabbis did.
And please, I have no desire discussing it here. I've already opened the whole thread:
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,82832.0.html?PHPSESSID=slqkocv7i8oakmiild2f00loq5
You don't want to discuss it here, but not before you spam links and attack rabbis again.
Luckily some people who read those links will be able to comprehend what they say. Others will not quite understand the dialectic style of Talmud, which you clearly don't. They shouldn't be misled by your inaccurate commentary which accuses rabbis who have done no crime.
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You keep posting your same lies over and over again.
Last links you showed me were from communists, in case you didn't realize, I never let something go. I still permanently have an eye out for Lewinsky, and if you post a link, if I liked it before I'm not going there any more. Just the fact that you like a link makes it garbage to me, and you've proven that's all you'll post time and time again.
You've been told 100 times, go talk to a Rabbi. If you don't like what they say, cry. As for here, you're just going to get cursed.
Now go die of cancer.
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You keep posting your same lies over and over again.
Last links you showed me were from communists, in case you didn't realize, I never let something go. I still permanently have an eye out for Lewinsky, and if you post a link, if I liked it before I'm not going there any more. Just the fact that you like a link makes it garbage to me, and you've proven that's all you'll post time and time again.
You've been told 100 times, go talk to a Rabbi. If you don't like what they say, cry. As for here, you're just going to get cursed.
Now go die of cancer.
Last links I've posted are from an orthodox Jewish scholarly website that covers rabbinic materials. Your refusal to even open the link just confirms your inability to refute what I said. You say I'm just going to get cursed? Of course I'm gonna get cursed because no one is able to refute what I said because it's true. Once again, I did ask the orthodox rabbi and he only confirmed that father is superior. His explanation? Well, man is the head of household, hence why he matters more.
I also assume you probably agree that mother does not deserve the same honor as father, right?
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Talmud Sanhedrin 38b {soncino translation}
We learnt elsewhere: R. Eliezer said: Be diligent to learn the Torah and know how to answer an
Epikoros. R. Johanan commented: They taught this only with respect to a Gentile Epikoros; with a
Jewish Epikoros, it would only make his heresy more pronounced.
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Some trolls just make the forum really annoying. Take the I hate Judaism guy for instance. Can he go away?
Was this guy ever as annoying as Brittney?
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Was this guy ever as annoying as Brittney?
Different annoying. Brittney it was like "why are you doing this?" and him, it's like a Chumptard troll that communicates in slogans mixed with one of the naked guys wearing a repent sign mixed with an extra dumb birther troll who thinks Cruz is not an American citizen and was ineligible for senate
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What do you think are the psychological problems of the troll that makes him/her bring up the feminazi lies about Judaism time and time again?
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What do you think are the psychological problems of the troll that makes him/her bring up the feminazi lies about Judaism time and time again?
It's a missionary.
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It's a missionary.
he's a self-hating kike
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These trolls are going to keep coming up not only on the JTF site, but on Face Book as well. I know because I run several pages and I keep getting crapped on by these trolls who are only brave behind a computer keyboard and post nasty and inaccurate things on line.
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My guess is that the feminazi troll has family problems. The troll's way to "get back" at his/her relative is to spread lies about Judaism's attitude on honoring parents.
But if Israel Chai is right that the troll is a missionary, I am forced to say the troll is not an ordinary Christian Missionary, but a Missionary for Buddhism, because until recently when the troll posted it was accompanied by a picture with a slogan praising something about Buddhism.
In any case classic Buddhism discriminates against women, so we see the Troll does not practice what he or she preaches.
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Guys the "troll" is a long time member, saynotoislam, Hank, etc. He a Jew, I think he just wants answers...
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Guys the "troll" is a long time member, saynotoislam, Hank, etc. He a Jew, I think he just wants answers...
he is a piece of trash and a self-hating leftist kike and he needs to be ip-banned, the fact that he hasn't already been banned speaks to the idiocy of the mod/mods
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he is a piece of trash and a self-hating leftist kike and he needs to be ip-banned, the fact that he hasn't already been banned speaks to the idiocy of the mod/mods
I think you should be banned!
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Quote from Ephraim Ben Noach
Guys the "troll" is a long time member, saynotoislam, Hank, etc. He a Jew, I think he just wants answers...
Since the troll first attacked the Torah in general and came up with conclusions about the Rabbis before he/she brought up the current issues, It is obvious to me the troll is raising points just for the sake of attack and not because of a real wish for an answer.
You could believe me or not believe me, but I am telling you the facts that the troll is bringing up are lies or misrepresentations out of context of what really Judaism says. I'm just not going to tell the troll why he/she is wrong, because keeping quiet is what I believe the Talmud tells me to do in this case.
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My guess is that the feminazi troll has family problems. The troll's way to "get back" at his/her relative is to spread lies about Judaism's attitude on honoring parents.
No, there's not a single lie in what I posted. I provided a valid rabbinic source and even a verse exactly as it's written. One of the websites I brought up is a scholarly Jewish website that covers various Jewish topics in-depth.
But if Israel Chai is right that the troll is a missionary, I am forced to say the troll is not an ordinary Christian Missionary, but a Missionary for Buddhism, because until recently when the troll posted it was accompanied by a picture with a slogan praising something about Buddhism.
I did not praise Buddhism. The picture you refer to is a picture of Ashin Wirathu, a Buddhist monk who fights Islam in Burma and encourages other Buddhists to stand up against muslim savagery. It was my appraisal of him personally (and not of Buddhism) because of his courage against Islam. It's like saying that anyone who admires Pat Robertson or Jerry Farewell is a Christian missionary.
In any case classic Buddhism discriminates against women, so we see the Troll does not practice what he or she preaches.
And your point is? I doubt you can even provide at least one example of "Buddhist discrimination against women". Besides, do you really think pointing fingers at other religions is such a perfect self-defense? Nope, it's nothing but a childish tactic.
Quote from Ephraim Ben NoachSince the troll first attacked the Torah in general and came up with conclusions about the Rabbis before he/she brought up the current issues, It is obvious to me the troll is raising points just for the sake of attack and not because of a real wish for an answer.
Where did I attack Torah? I attacked man-made laws that preach mother's inferiority to father's. Last time I checked, father and mother are both considered equally important according to Tanach.
You could believe me or not believe me, but I am telling you the facts that the troll is bringing up are lies or misrepresentations out of context of what really Judaism says.
No lies and misrepresentations. Once again, I've provided sources. Here we go again:
"If a person's father tells him: 'Bring me a drink of water,' and his mother tells him: 'Bring me a drink of water,' he should overlook his mother's honor and honor his father first. For both he and his mother are obligated to honor his father" (Rambam, Mamrim 6:14).
Take a quick look over this chapter. Notice numerous passages where only father is mentioned but not the mother. What does it tell you?
I'm just not going to tell the troll why he/she is wrong, because keeping quiet is what I believe the Talmud tells me to do in this case.
Because you can't. What I said is pure fact. According to Judaism, father can even prevent his son from saying kaddish (prayers for the deceased) for his deceased mother:
"A father can protest that his son not say Kaddish for his mother, because the father's honor comes first" (Darchei Moshe 376).
Shulchan Aruch (OC 240:14): If one's father and mother both asked him to bring water, he desists from honoring his mother and (first) honors his father.
R. Akiva Eiger (1:68): If one's mother commanded him to do something and his father protested, he may fulfill her request if refraining would cause a monetary loss, for we hold that one need not use his money for Kivud Av. Even if there will be no monetary loss, this is like divorced parents who both requested water. He may fulfill either first, for she need not honor his father. The same applies after his mother died. Death separates like divorce. Livyas Chen similarly says that one must honor his grandfather more than his father only while both are alive, for then also his father must honor his grandfather. However, the Beis Yosef (YD 376) says that if a woman commanded her son to say Kaddish for her after her death, and his father protests, Kivud Av has precedence over Kivud Em. The Noda bi'Yehudah says that honoring in life overrides honoring after death, even if the father died and the mother is alive. This is unlike the Beis Yosef, who gives precedence only because Kivud Av is greater. Rashi (31a DH she'Ben) supports the Beis Yosef. He said that R. Yehoshua said 'I see that you are an orphan. I.e. you do not ask to apply in practice. You just seek to learn.' If death is like divorce, perhaps he needed to know about a request after a parent died, and the living parent protested! Rather, it is clear that even after death, the father has precedence.
http://dafyomi.shemayisrael.co.il/kerisus/halachah/kr-hl-028.htm
And yet, people here criticize Islam or even Buddhism for alleged misogyny.
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To the Troll.
1 You lie again. You did post previously against the mitzva of Yibum, which is in the Torah or when the Torah talks about the possibility of a man having 2 wives in the book of Deuteronomy you also criticized the Torah.
2 I did bring a source that Buddhism which you promoted doesn't believe a woman can obtain spiritual enlightenment. A fact that did not seem to bother you.
3 I dare you to ask 3 modern day Orthodox rabbis, the following halachic question.
The question: Rabbi I am a person who is in a situation where I am absolutely obligated by Halacha to say Kaddish for my Mother. My father does not want me to say the prayer for her soul. Is it permitted for me to say the Kaddish prayer despite the objection of my father?
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And yet, people here criticize Islam or even Buddhism for alleged misogyny.
Lol this guy is defending Islam now. He just said islam is not misogynist, and when edu pointed out Buddhism discriminates women, he said what's your point. Let that sink in. This is clearly someone with an axe to grind who will use anything to misrepresent Judaism and paint it in a bad light because that is his ultimate goal.
Hey troll, why do you keep repeatedly posting the same things over and over again that we all already saw you post in multiple threads under multiple usernames and that people already took he time to address but whom you ignored?
Do you answer questions?
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Long as i follow this forum, there should be one person banned and that is Israel Chai.
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Long as i follow this forum, there should be one person banned and that is Israel Chai.
What did Israel Chai ever do to you?
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What did Israel Chai ever do to you?
It's not about me. It is his dumb close minded attitude towards anybody that doesn't agree with him.
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To the Troll.
1 You lie again. You did post previously against the mitzva of Yibum, which is in the Torah
Torah also says to do Chalitza. It was the content I criticized that widow should be forced into this.
or when the Torah talks about the possibility of a man having 2 wives in the book of Deuteronomy you also criticized the Torah.
I want to use this to justify polygamy? That passage you refer to talks about inheritance and what to do if man has sons from two wives (doesn't specify if he's married at the same time or not). I'm not even against marrying additional wife if it's for the strong reason like infertility or even yibbum, but people like you believe polygamy should be acceptable in all cases based on a passage that describes different law. That's what I criticized. The difference is that you view polygamy as a mitzva that is ordained by God and should not be criticized whereas I view it as an exceptional but hated necessity. You're free to interpret however you want. I stand by my words.
I don't want to talk about polygamy. Why do you bring it up again?
2 I did bring a source that Buddhism which you promoted doesn't believe a woman can obtain spiritual enlightenment. A fact that did not seem to bother you.
And why should I even care what Buddhism believes or does not believe? I'm not a Buddhist so it doesn't bother me. What bothers me are the teachings of the religion I happened into, which is Judaism. But since you once again brought Buddhism into discussion, tell me does Buddhism teaches mothers are inferior or that wife has no control of her property?
3 I dare you to ask 3 modern day Orthodox rabbis, the following halachic question.
The question: Rabbi I am a person who is in a situation where I am absolutely obligated by Halacha to say Kaddish for my Mother. My father does not want me to say the prayer for her soul. Is it permitted for me to say the Kaddish prayer despite the objection of my father?
http://www.vosizneias.com/51249/2010/03/14/israel-rabbi-ovadia-do-not-honor-the-will-of-a-deceased-if-it-is-against-torah/
"Another example of a question brought before the rabbi - who is considered an authority on Jewish law - was brought forth by a man, who wanted to know what to do after one of his parents requested in a will that he not say kaddish (the prayer for the dead) over the second parent.
“If the mother dies and she states in her will that the son should not say kaddish over the father, then the son should not obey the will. However, if the father writes in his will that he wants the son to refraim from saying the prayer over the mother, then the son should adhere to his wish,” wrote Yosef."
Lol this guy is defending Islam now. He just said islam is not misogynist, and when edu pointed out Buddhism discriminates women, he said what's your point.
Well, why don't you make a research on what Islam teaches on motherhood. A complete opposite of what Judaism teaches.
I'm not defending Islam and it also treats women like dirt, but it doesn't mean I'm going to ignore and not call out some of the evil teachings of my religion.
This is clearly someone with an axe to grind who will use anything to misrepresent Judaism and paint it in a bad light because that is his ultimate goal.
Dude, you're acting childish now. Me quoting rabbinical Jewish teachings and providing sources for it is "misrepresenting Judaism and painting it in a bad light"? No one ever could refute them.
Hey troll, why do you keep repeatedly posting the same things over and over again that we all already saw you post in multiple threads under multiple usernames and that people already took he time to address but whom you ignored?
Do you answer questions?
The only person here who doesn't answer questions is YOU. How many times have you already ignored the specific question I asked you? Why is mother inferior to father? This is a specific topic I'm discussing now, and no one responded to it yet. If I'm wrong then refute me. Stop with this childish whinings like "false", "feminism", "you're a nazi troll", etc.
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I'm not defending Islam
Yes you did.
and it also treats women like dirt, but it doesn't mean I'm going to ignore and not call out some of the evil teachings of my religion.
Lol you keep calling it your religion like you are some authority but you don't practice it and know next to nothing about it. The extent of your "knowledge" comes from reading a few screeds and articles. It is embarrassing yourself every time you post.
Dude, you're acting childish now. Me quoting rabbinical Jewish teachings and providing sources for it is "misrepresenting Judaism and painting it in a bad light"? No one ever could refute them.
Lying for your cause again.
The only person here who doesn't answer questions is YOU. How many times have you already ignored the specific question I asked you? Why is mother inferior to father?
LIE.
You are a liar. The claim of yours isnt true and been refuted a hundred times already.
So I take that as a no you are not going to answer my question? Missionaries never do.
his is a specific topic I'm discussing now, and no one responded to it yet. If I'm wrong then refute me. Stop with this childish whinings like "false", "feminism", "you're a nazi troll", etc.
Stop lying and stop crying champ.
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It's not about me. It is his dumb close minded attitude towards anybody that doesn't agree with him.
Why do you want him banned?
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Yes you did.
Lol you keep calling it your religion like you are some authority but you don't practice it and know next to nothing about it. The extent of your "knowledge" comes from reading a few screeds and articles. It is embarrassing yourself every time you post. Lying for your cause again.
LIE.
You are a liar. The claim of yours isnt true and been refuted a hundred times already.
So I take that as a no you are not going to answer my question? Missionaries never do.
Stop lying and stop crying champ.
Are you going to continue to ignore the sources? Please tell me why is father superior to mother? I'm begging you.
http://dafyomi.shemayisrael.co.il/kerisus/halachah/kr-hl-028.htm
I swear I'm not a missionary. And I'm not trolling here.Please, don't ignore my questions. I'm willing to listen to any response, but please answer.
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Well, why don't you make a research on what Islam teaches on motherhood. A complete opposite of what Judaism
You just praised Islam again.
But you know absolute zero of what Judaism teaches regarding motherhood. Stop wasting my time.
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You just praised Islam again.
But you know absolute zero of what Judaism teaches regarding motherhood. Stop wasting my time.
I'm not wasting your time. Please tell me. And how did I praise Islam? I just said Islam honors motherhood more. If I'm wrong then tell me how I'm wrong.
Are you denying that father is superior to mother under Jewish law?
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I'm not wasting your time. Please tell me. And how did I praise Islam? I just said Islam honors motherhood more. If I'm wrong then tell me how I'm wrong.
"Honors motherhood" ? ?
More vague and silly assertions about Judaism which you make without support behind them, to trash the religion. I have to go observe the Shabbat, I can't post with you all day.
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"Honors motherhood" ? ?
Yes, it does:
"Do good to and serve your mother, then your mother, then your mother, then your father, then the near relatives and then those who come after them. (Sahîh Bukhârî 5971 and Sahîh Muslim 7/2)".
More vague and silly assertions about Judaism which you make without support behind them, to trash the religion.
Even after I quoted exact passages from religious Jewish literature you continue to accuse me of making "vague and silly assertions about Judaism without support behind them"?
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http://halachafortodaycom.blogspot.co.il/2013/02/archives-hilchos-kibud-av-veim.html
1) If one’s parent tells them not to talk to someone and/or not to forgive someone for something that that person did, and the child wants to forgive them and/or talk to them, there is no obligation to listen to the parent.
The above is true even if the parent gives a time limit (e.g. don’t forgive that person or talk to them until next week) and surely if the parent says so indefinitely. (Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah Siman 240:16)
2) The reason for this is that it is forbidden to hate or bear a grudge against another Jew [unless he is purposely and blatantly transgressing the Torah, see Talmud Pesachim 113b], and thus there is no obligation to listen to parents who tell you to transgress the Torah, as we discussed earlier.
Additionally, a parent that wants a child to bear a grudge is considered “Aino Oseh Ma’aseh Amcha, not acting the way a Jew must act” and there is no obligation to listen to such a parent. (See Talmud Bava Kama 94b. See Shu”t HaRosh Klal 15:5)
Based on these reasons, if the person that the parent says not to talk to or forgive is a Rasha, a wicked person, and thus permitted to be hated, it is probable that the child must listen and not talk to or forgive that person. A Rav should be consulted for Halacha L’ma’aseh.
1) If a parent tells a child not to daven in a certain Shul and the child feels that they will daven better (i.e. with more Kavanah) there, he need not heed the request of the parent. (See Pischei Teshuva Yoreh Deah 240:23)
If a son wants to marry a particular girl who he feels will be a suitable shidduch for him to build a good Torah home with and the parents object [for reasons other than if they feel it's Halachically or hashkafically inappropriate or if they know [for sure] that she has done improper things that have ruined her reputation] the son need not heed the parents’ wishes. The same applies to a daughter. (Rama ibid. See also Sdei Chemed Os Chof Klal 147 and Shu”t Meishiv Davar Vol. 2 Siman 50)
2) If a parent advises a child to divorce his wife, he is not obligated to listen unless the woman has done things or behaved is such a way in which the Halacha mandates divorcing her, and in that case it is indeed a Mitzvah to listen to the parent and divorce her.
For Halacha L’ma’aseh in all of the above and other similar cases, there may be situations where the parents’ worries are warranted and even if not Halachically obligated to listen to them, a Rav or other Torah sage should be consulted before disregarding the parents’ wishes, as most of the time the parents [who are Torah observant Jews] have their children’s best interest in mind and it makes sense to at least hear them out carefully and take their advice and suggestions seriously.
Questions? Feel free to email me at [email protected]
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And how did I praise Islam? I just said Islam honors motherhood more.
Are you denying that father is superior to mother under Jewish law?
Yes, everyone is denying that, and you just said that pisslam treats women better than Judaism.
YS"V to this Nazi troll, someone kick him off already, I can't take more than half an hour of this place at a time since he started his missionary campaign.
Kick the [censored] troll.
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http://halachafortodaycom.blogspot.co.il/2013/02/archives-hilchos-kibud-av-veim.html
Thank you for bringing this source. Let's see what else it says:
If ones mother passes away while their father is alive, and the father tells the child not to say Kadish for the mother (as many people feel it’s a bad omen for their child to say Kadish while they are still alive), there is a debate amongst the Poskim if the child must acquiesce to the fathers request or not.
The fact that it should be even debatable whether or not father can prevent his son from saying Kadish for his deceased mother is disgusting. How about no, father can't prevent son from doing mitzva. But hey, I once again would be accused of "spreading lies about Judaism without backing my claims up".
We're not done yet:
If one’s father asks for a glass of water or any other task, and at the same time his/her mother asked for a glass of water or another task, tending to the father’s needs takes precedence, as the son/daughter and the mother are both obligated to respect the father/husband.
Your own article makes reference to this law. You really thought no one would notice it?
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Yes, everyone is denying that, and you just said that pisslam treats women better than Judaism.
No, I didn't. I stated one example where it may be true, and I challenge anyone to refute it. There are cases where Judaism treats women better and there are cases where pisslam does too. I'm a fair critic. Stop with this freaking info wars crap! If you want to attack pisslam or any other enemy of Judaism then use the actual facts about the enemy to criticize it. Pisslam does treat women like [censored] and, in many cases, worse than Judaism or any other religion. Not in this case though. That's unfortunate for me to say.
YS"V to this Nazi troll, someone kick him off already, I can't take more than half an hour of this place at a time since he started his missionary campaign.
How about you prove that I'm a missionary. Get two valid witnesses that saw me personally engaging in missionary activity and preaching Christianity (or whatever religion you accuse me of being part of). In short: no, I'm not a "missionary". You act childish any time you accuse me of being a "missionary" or attribute to me any other title that is laughable. As HaRav Kahane said: "Those who don't debate, defame".
I have my own website where, among many other articles, I also attack pisslam. In fact, I'm in process of writing three different articles where I attack pisslam in very harsh way, and there will be more articles that I've planned to write. I'm not just sitting on a forum insulting people and getting them banned by using false accusations against them like you did in the past. What do you do on the internet outside of JTF? Nothing? Then either respectfully engage in serious debate or get out of my way.
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You said Islam treats women better than Judaism yet in the Muslim world, they are treated like cattle. Keep posting this crap and you're gone.
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Yes, everyone is denying that, and you just said that pisslam treats women better than Judaism.
YS"V to this Nazi troll, someone kick him off already, I can't take more than half an hour of this place at a time since he started his missionary campaign.
Kick the [censored] troll.
I rather have Brittney come back to make two word posts. Let's unban Brittney. I think it's time she had learned her lesson.
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Yes, it does:
"Do good to and serve your mother, then your mother, then your mother, then your father, then the near relatives and then those who come after them. (Sahîh Bukhârî 5971 and Sahîh Muslim 7/2)".
Sounds like Mohammed got his dictation confused. He told the ghostwriter, Then your mother Then your mother. This illiterate clown was on acid. Why because this sentence says mother first you think that means Islam treats mothers well? Lying sack of _____.
They kidnap Jewish women and when they become "mothers" to a supposedly "Muslim" child in the muslims view, they beat them abuse them and cut off access to the child. Really a great deal of "honor of motherhood"
Even after I quoted exact passages from religious Jewish literature you continue to accuse me of making "vague and silly assertions about Judaism without support behind them"?
This is just pathetic. All you said was "doesn't honor motherhood" - a retarded claim. There is no source that says such a thing so stop pretending there is. Once again you've never spent time with people who practice the religion, you clearly don't practice yourself, so you have no idea how Judaism values motherhood and you have no sources. I figured a white knight feminist like you would be angry at how much Judaism values mothers having many children and taking care of them. But you claim the opposite and get angry about something that isn't even true.
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The fact that it should be even debatable whether or not father can prevent his son from saying Kadish for his deceased mother is disgusting.
So the fact that the rabbis even debate a question, which cannot be answered without debating it, is to you "disgusting." Some say one way, some say the other way. You want to murder all those who said the way you don't like. Grow up and grow a sack.
If you do not practice Judaism and do not believe in God or the afterlife or a hundred other things Judaism asserts, why would the act of saying or not saying kaddish make a difference to you? (Since you keep harping on this specific issue). Probably because you are using any little detail to grind an axe.
Or do you really believe the kaddish has an effect? If you do, why don't you observe the sabbath? Why don't you spend time with Orthodox Jews to learn about their culture instead of judging them from an article and online screeds?
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For those who are interested in truth (meaning not the Troll) the Sages derive from a Biblical verse that a wife's obligation to honor her husband is greater than her obligation to honor her parents.
When honoring her father (or mother) conflicts with honoring the husband, the husband's honor wins out.
This is how the Sages understand the Biblical Text.
And if this irks the feathers of Feminazis I don't give a hoot.
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As far as the kaddish question is concerned it is clear to me, that my rabbis hold that the son could say Kaddish for his mother, despite the objections of the father.
I know this because in more extreme cases they have sided with the child who wanted to go against the wishes of his parents.
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There are cases where Judaism treats women better and there are cases where pisslam does too. I'm a fair critic.
You act childish any time you accuse me of being a "missionary" or attribute to me any other title that is laughable. As HaRav Kahane said: "Those who don't debate, defame".
What do you do on the internet outside of JTF? Nothing? Then either respectfully engage in serious debate or get out of my way.
Ironic.
Anyone who seriously thinks you're trying to have a debate is insane.
You were told a hundred times to go talk to a Rabbi. It's true, most will say what I say, curse you, and tell you to get a life. Some might educate you in response to your lying declarations.
When I came here, I had questions about Judaism. Instead of declaring Judaism to be something, I asked, and areas where I wanted to get into more detail, I talked to a Rabbi.
Why do I have to repeat the same things every day on this forum for a month?
Does anyone actually think Judaism sucks cares about Judaism? Does anyone think if you prove him wrong on one lie, he won't just come back with another?
Those here who I think are useful know what I do, and I feel no need to show off to a troll. Go jump off a bridge.
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It's not about me. It is his dumb close minded attitude towards anybody that doesn't agree with him.
I don't remember having a conversation with you, but for the record, you've made good posts and I have nothing against you. Is this still over the avatar thing?
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When I came here, I had questions about Judaism. Instead of declaring Judaism to be something, I asked, and areas where I wanted to get into more detail, I talked to a Rabbi.
After seeing what Missionary4Pisslam/Islamsucks!/Smash Islam/Buddhalicker/Man-hater/SadduceeAvenger has done here, I have even more respect for what you did instead. It's the logical course of action, but still, I guess some people don't deal in logic.
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After seeing what Missionary4Pisslam/Islamsucks!/Smash Islam/Buddhalicker/Man-hater/SadduceeAvenger has done here, I have even more respect for what you did instead. It's the logical course of action, but still, I guess some people don't deal in logic.
When you are trying to learn, you don't demand that people accept the ignorant conclusions you've just come to. If you want to know about cooking, you can chit chat with house wives about their cooking for the basic info, and talk to a chef to learn more. You don't scream at them that their recipe sucks and mentions the ways that eating feces is preferable to the food, because you don't know what to do with the recipe.
It's a troll, ban him.
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You keep posting your same lies over and over again.
Last links you showed me were from communists, in case you didn't realize, I never let something go. I still permanently have an eye out for Lewinsky, and if you post a link, if I liked it before I'm not going there any more. Just the fact that you like a link makes it garbage to me, and you've proven that's all you'll post time and time again.
You've been told 100 times, go talk to a Rabbi. If you don't like what they say, cry. As for here, you're just going to get cursed.
Now go die of cancer.
Not defending him or anything but wishing cancer on anyone isn't funny.
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Not defending him or anything but wishing cancer on anyone isn't funny.
Agreed!
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Not defending him or anything but wishing cancer on anyone isn't funny.
I wasn't trying to be funny. Delete the threads, or ban the troll.
Agreed!
EPHY!!!!!!! Long time no see!! Why are you never here?
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I wasn't trying to be funny. Delete the threads, or ban the troll.
EPHY!!!!!!! Long time no see!! Why are you never here?
Just been hanging out in my own little noachide world fighting with people over politics.
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Just for the record, I asked Rabbi Dovid Bar Hayim of machonshilo.org my question
Shalom Harav,
There is a radical feminist who I have been arguing with on the internet, that does not believe me about a certain halacha, so I thought I would ask you to prove that I am not making this up.
A person who is in a situation where he is absolutely obligated by Halacha to say Kaddish for his Mother. His father does not want him to say the prayer for her soul. Is it permitted for him to say the Kaddish prayer despite the objection of his father?
Answer:
Shalom
It is well known that with relation to all Tora related issues, a person is not required to obey his/her parents if their wishes cannot be reconciled with the Tora, or where their wishes prevent the child from acting properly. One example is the choosing of a spouse; if one is sure that this is the right person, one should ignore one's parents. The situation you mention is similar; the demand is unreasonable and runs contrary to the Tora. A parent cannot make such a demand.
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Just been hanging out in my own little noachide world fighting with people over politics.
Add me on fb dude. msg me. My accounts go down sometimes, so leave me here and I'll re add you.
There are only Drumph supporters to debate with now, and it's a nightmare. I need sane and not depraved people to talk to there.
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Just for the record, I asked Rabbi Dovid Bar Hayim of machonshilo.org my question
Shalom Harav,
There is a radical feminist who I have been arguing with on the internet, that does not believe me about a certain halacha, so I thought I would ask you to prove that I am not making this up.
A person who is in a situation where he is absolutely obligated by Halacha to say Kaddish for his Mother. His father does not want him to say the prayer for her soul. Is it permitted for him to say the Kaddish prayer despite the objection of his father?
Answer:
OMG. You know him? That Rav is a hero.
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OMG. You know him? That Rav is a hero.
He is great.
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I do not want this troll to be banned for a few reasons. One, so he can read the private messages I sent him in response to questions he asked me, 2 because like many trolls he will probably just come back anyway, and 3 because it gives him an excuse to say we wronged him or banned dissent which is false martyrdom I don't want to aid.
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I do not want this troll to be banned for a few reasons. One, so he can read the private messages I sent him in response to questions he asked me, 2 because like many trolls he will probably just come back anyway, and 3 because it gives him an excuse to say we wronged him or banned dissent which is false martyrdom I don't want to aid.
Every comment you make to him is proof that he's really a martyr to him. At least he won't be here to cry about it and how unfairly we treated his friend who posts Nazi propaganda. Or waste everyone's time. Or make the forum look bad. He sends me private messages, really dude, don't go down that road, waste of time.
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« Sent to: Israel Chai on: March 18, 2016, 03:14:46 AM »
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Stfu, you evil slime! You don't talk about my late grandfather this way. If you hold anything against me personally, tell it to me. Do not insult my grandfather. You don't know what it's like to lose both grandfathers a year apart distance.
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Please read this
« Sent to: Israel Chai on: March 23, 2016, 11:55:01 PM »
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And then tell me if I am a fraud for what I've said in the past:
jewishbible.blogspot.com/2005/10/ten-curses-of-eve-unpublishable.html
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Re: Please read this
« Sent to: Israel Chai on: March 24, 2016, 05:04:59 AM »
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I don't know anything about Michael Lerner or whoever the author of that blog is, but the fact that he quotes actual rabbinic sources doesn't bother you?
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Re: Please read this
« Sent to: Israel Chai on: March 25, 2016, 01:04:20 AM »
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The guy who runs this blog is Berel Dov Lerner, not Michael Lerner. And he brings up actual rabbinic sources that are also frequently cited in other critical works. Have you even checked the link that I sent you?
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« Sent to: Israel Chai on: April 01, 2016, 03:37:37 PM »
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I would ask you to remove your insulting posts. I removed my previous threads and apologized. So please stop. You're the one who's hurting the forum now, not me.
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« Sent to: Israel Chai on: April 01, 2016, 04:20:04 PM »
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I'm recanting what I've said before, but I'm going to restart the thread because I want to have serious discussions, not battlefield.
Either participate or not, but don't make personal insults. Please.
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« Sent to: Israel Chai on: April 01, 2016, 05:04:42 PM »
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I apologize if I did something wrong, by please do not insult me. Let's have a serious discussion.
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« Sent to: Israel Chai on: April 02, 2016, 10:09:42 PM »
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I told you to stop.
(he sent "I told you to stop" after I made this thread)
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I agree with that too.
I do not want this troll to be banned for a few reasons. One, so he can read the private messages I sent him in response to questions he asked me, 2 because like many trolls he will probably just come back anyway, and 3 because it gives him an excuse to say we wronged him or banned dissent which is false martyrdom I don't want to aid.
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You said Islam treats women better than Judaism yet in the Muslim world, they are treated like cattle. Keep posting this crap and you're gone.
Where did I say this? How about both of them have problems in their own ways when it comes to women?
Sounds like Mohammed got his dictation confused. He told the ghostwriter, Then your mother Then your mother. This illiterate clown was on acid. Why because this sentence says mother first you think that means Islam treats mothers well? Lying sack of _____.
Islamic sharia law is derived from koran and hadiths. This hadith is sahih which means that it's authenticity is strong and serves as basis for sharia.
http://www.al-islam.org/islamic-family-life-sayyid-akhtar-rizvi/parents-and-children#superiority-mothers-rights
http://www.islamicity.org/8603/the-status-of-parents-in-islam/
This is just pathetic. All you said was "doesn't honor motherhood" - a retarded claim. There is no source that says such a thing so stop pretending there is. Once again you've never spent time with people who practice the religion, you clearly don't practice yourself, so you have no idea how Judaism values motherhood and you have no sources. I figured a white knight feminist like you would be angry at how much Judaism values mothers having many children and taking care of them. But you claim the opposite and get angry about something that isn't even true.
What about the sources that say son must obey father if he forbids him to say kaddish for his deceased mother "because father's honor comes first"? What about classical Jewish literature regarding pregnancy and birth of a baby as a "curse" and a "punishment"? Yes, right. Judaism honors motherhood so greatly that it made father superior to mother and even allowed father to forbid his son from commemorating his dead mother.
So the fact that the rabbis even debate a question, which cannot be answered without debating it, is to you "disgusting." Some say one way, some say the other way.
Why should it be debatable whether or not father can prevent his son from saying kaddish for his mother? That's his mother, not some distant relative or an outsider. Why is it not debatable whether mother can prevent her son from saying kaddish for his father?
For those who are interested in truth (meaning not the Troll) the Sages derive from a Biblical verse that a wife's obligation to honor her husband is greater than her obligation to honor her parents.
When honoring her father (or mother) conflicts with honoring the husband, the husband's honor wins out.
This is how the Sages understand the Biblical Text.
And if this irks the feathers of Feminazis I don't give a hoot.
Another man-made law enacted by rabbis to remind women they're "property of husband".
As far as the kaddish question is concerned it is clear to me, that my rabbis hold that the son could say Kaddish for his mother, despite the objections of the father.
I know this because in more extreme cases they have sided with the child who wanted to go against the wishes of his parents.
Just for the record, I asked Rabbi Dovid Bar Hayim of machonshilo.org my question
Shalom Harav,
There is a radical feminist who I have been arguing with on the internet, that does not believe me about a certain halacha, so I thought I would ask you to prove that I am not making this up.
A person who is in a situation where he is absolutely obligated by Halacha to say Kaddish for his Mother. His father does not want him to say the prayer for her soul. Is it permitted for him to say the Kaddish prayer despite the objection of his father?
Answer:
Great! You have one rabbi who understands this ruling is immoral and regards saying kaddish as obligatory.
But, what about all those rabbis that say the opposite? What about that halacha by Rav Ovadia Yosef that I posted earlier where he explicitly stated that son must adhere to father's wish if father doesn't want him to say prayer for his mother? Wasn't Ovadia Yosef a Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel?
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For those who think I'm an "antisemite/radical feminist/missie troll", what are your arguments for that? Prove that I'm a "missionary" or a "troll"? I just pointed out that Judaism has problems (like any other religion on the planet). There are no perfect religions and never were. Judaism has problems with women and it's a FACT. It is not just Islam. Married women in Judaism cannot manage property or even spend money independently. Mother's status is inferior to father's. These laws don't even exist in islam.
If you really care about Judaism then work to improve it. No one talks about bashing Torah. There are dozens of posts attacking Islam and pretty much every other religion for their evil laws, but when someone points at some evil laws in Judaism, that person is immediately labeled as "nazi", "troll", "missionary", or any other absurd term.
The problem is that Judaism denies married women independent entity. Married women are treated as minors under halacha.
Judaism may not be the worst religion, but it does have problems like any other religion. Stop pretending all religions are moral.
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"Married women in Judaism cannot manage property or even spend money independently"
You're a lying piece of trash. Do you wake up every day and decide the best thing you can do is repeat that same lie for us to disprove? What a useless life you have.
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"Married women in Judaism cannot manage property or even spend money independently"
You're a lying piece of trash. Do you wake up every day and decide the best thing you can do is repeat that same lie for us to disprove? What a useless life you have.
I'm sure either kahaneloyalist or edu would only confirm what I said.
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I have the ability to give a point by point rebuttal to the troll. But I have a better idea.
For those serious people who are really interested in doing G-d's will and are confused by the distortions brought up by the troll, try contacting Rabbi Bar Chaim.
Probably on these type of issues Machon Meir ( http://www.english.machonmeir.net/ ) is also okay.
For the troll who is not interested in G-d's will, go to the Muslim sites and talk there.
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I have the ability to give a point by point rebuttal to the troll. But I have a better idea.
For those serious people who are really interested in doing G-d's will and are confused by the distortions brought up by the troll, try contacting Rabbi Bar Chaim.
Probably on these type of issues Machon Meir ( http://www.english.machonmeir.net/ ) is also okay.
For the troll who is not interested in G-d's will, go to the Muslim sites and talk there.
I'm not a troll, and you're coward.
I'm not responding to this thread anymore. Mods, lock this thread.
For further discussion, refer to this thread http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,82832.0.html
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I'm not a troll, and you're coward.
I'm not responding to this thread anymore. Mods, lock this thread.
For further discussion, refer to this thread http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,82832.0.html
Lol this is just precious. You're not going to tell the mods what to do. It was you who started the propaganda and trollish threads and after you drop in some last jabs at people in a response thread, now it should be locked so your missionary propaganda stands as the last word? Man your games are unbelievably transparent, you insult the reader's intelligence.
No one is locking this garbage thread.
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The sniveling little troll just called edu a coward. Can it go away, please?
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Lol this is just precious. You're not going to tell the mods what to do. It was you who started the propaganda and trollish threads and after you drop in some last jabs at people in a response thread, now it should be locked so your missionary propaganda stands as the last word? Man your games are unbelievably transparent, you insult the reader's intelligence.
No one is locking this garbage thread.
I didn't start this thread. I started a specific thread and wanted to have all discussions there. What propaganda? That Halacha has laws that are repressive to women? That married woman is forbidden to give charity or sell property without husband's consent? That father is superior to mother?
Facts are not propaganda. http://www.thehalachacenter.org/journal-links/5775/shemos/vayakhel-pekudei/married-women-and-tzedaka.php
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I didn't start this thread. I started a specific thread and wanted to have all discussions there. What propaganda? That Halacha has laws that are repressive to women? That married woman is forbidden to give charity or sell property without husband's consent? That father is superior to mother?
Facts are not propaganda. http://www.thehalachacenter.org/journal-links/5775/shemos/vayakhel-pekudei/married-women-and-tzedaka.php
Do you need a tissue?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
Next you will ask forum members if they stopped beating their wife.
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Do you need a tissue?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
Next you will ask forum members if they stopped beating their wife.
Aren't you and your buddy lkz tired of waging wars against me? What's so unjustified about my questions? It is the laws that treat married woman as husband's possession that are unjustified.
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Islam Sucks!, what are you talking about?
Where are the Jewish women that are treated like possessions?
I don't know one.
If there are some. They may have chosen to follow that lifestyle.
In almost every case, the Jewish women I know are educated and independent women.
Some wear the pants in their house. They are in control. In fact, in todays society in general, women seem better protected by the law.
It is quite obvious that you are trying to be antagonistic.
Why?
In answer to the thread...
If you want to dismiss trolls as useless and annoying. Stop going around in circles with them.
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Islam Sucks!, what are you talking about?
Where are the Jewish women that are treated like possessions?
I don't know one.
If there are some. They may have chosen to follow that lifestyle.
In almost every case, the Jewish women I know are educated and independent women.
Some wear the pants in their house. They are in control. In fact, in todays society in general, women seem better protected by the law.
It is quite obvious that you are trying to be antagonistic.
Why?
In answer to the thread...
If you want to dismiss trolls as useless and annoying. Stop going around in circles with them.
The troll goes around in circles. I don't bother responding to his same lies over and over again, I just call him filth and tell him to get cancer. Edu tried and he called him a coward, and kept believing his made-up interpretation.
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Aren't you and your buddy lkz tired of waging wars against me? What's so unjustified about my questions? It is the laws that treat married woman as husband's possession that are unjustified.
The only war I am waging is against your lies about Judaism.
For example:
"That father is superior to mother?"
You've made this dishonest claim about Judaism over and over again, but it's still not true. No matter how many times you tell this lie here, it's never going to become true.
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The only war I am waging is against your lies about Judaism.
For example:
You've made this dishonest claim about Judaism over and over again, but it's still not true. No matter how many times you tell this lie here, it's never going to become true.
I'm not going to write anything anymore. I'm simply going to quote your own rabbis and let people interested in truth see for themselves what Judaism teaches:
http://www.dafyomi.co.il/erchin/halachah/er-hl-025.htm
Shevus Yakov (2:94): Rashi in Sotah supports the Rema. The Acharonim agree. A daughter's son must honor his grandfather, and all the more so a son's son, for a son stands in place of his father for everything. No one argues about this. Sotah discusses a daughter's son. We find that Shlomo did a great honor for his grandmother Rus, and put a chair for her near himself. If he were not Chayav to honor her, a king may not pardon his honor! I agree that a grandchild should say one Kaddish. Seemingly, his mother can protest. A father can protest that his son not say Kaddish for his mother, because the father's honor comes first (Darchei Moshe 376). (This is letter of the law; the custom is unlike this.) It is rare that a man's son die, and his grandson remains and his daughter-in-law protests, so there is no custom about this. The Rema said that a mother can stop her son from saying Kaddish for her parent. He would not say that she can stop him from saying Kaddish for his father's father, since one must honor his father more than his mother. We find that one does not want his wife to be disgraced (through needing to come to Beis Din) after his death (Kesuvos 74b). All the more so he does not want his father to be disgraced if his grandson will not say Kaddish for him, to fill his father' place! We force the grandson to say Kaddish according to the compromise. If the grandfather taught to him Torah, and he did not leave a son, surely the grandson says Kaddish like other Avelim.
R. Akiva Eiger (1:68): If one's mother commanded him to do something and his father protested, he may fulfill her request if refraining would cause a monetary loss, for we hold that one need not use his money for Kivud Av. Even if there will be no monetary loss, this is like divorced parents who both requested water. He may fulfill either first, for she need not honor his father. The same applies after his mother died. Death separates like divorce. Livyas Chen similarly says that one is obligated to honor his grandfather more than his father only while both are alive, for then also his father must honor his grandfather. However, the Beis Yosef (YD 376) says that if a woman commanded her son to say Kaddish for her after her death, and his father protests, Kivud Av has precedence over Kivud Em. The Noda bi'Yehudah says that honoring in life has precedence over honoring after death, even if the father died and the mother is alive. This is unlike the Beis Yosef, who gives precedence only because Kivud Av is greater. Rashi supports the Beis Yosef. He said that R. Yehoshua told the orphan 'you do not ask to apply in practice, rather, you just seek to learn.' If death is like divorce, perhaps he needed to know about a request after a parent died, and the living parent protested! Rather, it is clear that even after death, the father has precedence.
Just in case, let's compare now with this: http://www.al-islam.org/islamic-family-life-sayyid-akhtar-rizvi/parents-and-children#superiority-mothers-rights
You see the paradox?
How in the world does violent and murderous religion like islam sometimes teach moral stuff? And how in the world does Judaism prefer to promote Greek/Roman views as "Halacha"? What does it say? The only thing it does say is that all religions are capable of teaching both good and evil things. That's why I no longer want to be part of Judaism. Who are we to criticize other religions when ours sometimes contains much worse teachings (this being an example)? We're all humans and we're all capable of changing systems to better standards.
That's all! You probably not going to see me here again. Everyone here hates me and wants me banned. Some even want me to die. LKZ continues to bash me even after I proposed peace. He also wished me cancer. What's the point to keep arguing with uncivilized savages like him who wish other people cancer and rejoice when their loved ones die?
Good bye!
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I'm hard pressed to find anything moral in pisslam. Even half moral things like fasting are done for evil purposes and have evil histories. What is so moral about pisslam to you, Islam Sucks?
You were already responded to on a child saying kaddish. Like a marriage, he is commanded to obey his parents, but can marry who he wants if he really wants, his father can tell him not to say kaddish, maybe if the mom cheated on him, but he can do it anyways if he loved her. Jews are very happy with halacha, go bug someone that isn't leading the world in innovation and freedom.
"And how in the world does Judaism prefer to promote Greek/Roman views as "Halacha"?"
You and your whole family should get cancer, you filthy rotten evil liar.
"What does it say?"
Go away, no one falls for your pathetic attempts at manipulation. You are truly a miserable and pathetic slug.
"The only thing it does say is that all religions are capable of teaching both good and evil things."
To anyone who knows anything about Judaism, calling it a religion is extremely offensive. Religions are not capable of anything but being what is in them, and pisslam is twisted evil.
"That's why I no longer want to be part of Judaism."
How many accounts do you have to make to tell us that? Go tell a Rabbi. We know you're lying, hated Judaism in the first place, and are making up another story.
"Some even want me to die. LKZ continues to bash me even after I proposed peace. He also wished me cancer."
If you died that would be alright. You continue to lie after you tell me not to say anything after you lie. The correct grammar for your last sentence would be "He wished cancer on me".
"What's the point to keep arguing with uncivilized savages like him who wish other people cancer and rejoice when their loved ones die?"
We have different definitions of arguing. Repeating lie slogans and not responding to what anyone else says, except with personal insults like to edu, is not arguing. There is no point for you to keep posting your same lie slogans you repeat verbatim from Torah-haters. You should stop.
"Good bye!"
Please mean it.
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Message that the troll sent me. He says he is against leftists, and that Judaism treats women worse than Pisslam. Wonder what his next account will say.
Shalom,
I just want to let you know that I'm leaving the forum and probably Judaism. You can blame me for being intolerant, or you can blame LKZ and edu for being rude and wishing me to die of cancer. I cannot and will not stay in the environment that harbors such hatred against individuals like me. I tried to have a legitimate discussion, and got numerous threats and insults instead. Everyone here hates me and wants me banned.
I'm also embarrassed about Judaism's mistreatment and disregard of motherhood. This is the reason why my mother doesn't want to have anything to do with religion either. Everyone here lied to me that Judaism is great to women etc. You really thought I will never be able to read the Jewish texts and find out on my own that it's not true, especially in this era of technology and internet? How come Islam says mothers are superior to fathers, while Judaism says the opposite? You really want your religion to look more backwards than islam? There are things we just have to change in Judaism to improve it. This is not a biblical law, so why such fury? Father should not be allowed to prevent son from saying kaddish for his deceased mother, but Halacha allows it.
Dennis Prager wrote an excellent article a while back called "Can Halacha be Wrong?" where he lists halachic laws that he says lack any morality and need to be changed. Whether you agree with his position or not, this is a good read:
http://www.jewishjournal.com/dennis_prager/article/can_halachah_ever_be_wrong_20120111
Some people here told me that I'm wrong. You see, if they would at least explain to me where exactly I'm wrong at, this situation would not happen and I would still remain part of Jewish faith and would actively promote JTF activism. Instead, I got disrespected and teased by some JTFers who did nothing but called me a "troll", "missionary", "nazi", "feminist", etc.
I'm just letting you know that I'm leaving voluntarily so you don't have to ban me.
Farewell and thank you for all your time you take to help save your people from dangers of Islam and left-wing traitors within.
Good bye!
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He keeps saying a million times he's "leaving Judaism" -----> Again how do you leave something you never practiced?! ???
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Israel Chai quotes the troll as saying:
I just want to let you know that I'm leaving the forum and probably Judaism. You can blame me for being intolerant, or you can blame LKZ and edu for being rude and wishing me to die of cancer. I cannot and will not stay in the environment that harbors such hatred against individuals like me. I tried to have a legitimate discussion, and got numerous threats and insults instead. Everyone here hates me and wants me banned.
The troll thinks this will cause me a feeling of remorse.
On the contrary, I hope the troll does leave this forum because the troll is a heretic who is trying to cause the people to sin against the Torah.
http://www.vilnagaon.org/book/hatred.html
Especially in the early days of Communism it was not uncommon to find men of Jewish origin among the leading communist personalities. Indeed the father of Communism, Karl Marx, was of Jewish origin. (Under pressure from the Russian Czar to assimilate, Marx's parents superficially took upon themselves Christianity. )
Another very famous Jewish Communist was Lev Bronstein, known more widely, as Leon Trotsky, Stalin's rival in the leadership struggle for rule of the Soviet Union after Lenin.
It was told in the biography of Rabbi Elchanan Wasserman (in the English Artscroll edition, page 59) what the Chafetz Chaim (who usually has the final say on what is Jewish Law) did to the Communist, Trotsky.
That the Chafetz Chaim agreed to curse this wicked man with a curse , special for wicked Jews and within a short time thereafter, Trotsky fell from power (one should add that after a few years later , Stalin also murdered him). And see also the Be'ur Halacha, siman 329 the words beginning with Eleh L-fi ''that it is permissible to curse a wicked Jew''....for it is written '' and a leader of your nation do not curse'' -when he does the action of your nation.
And also of the messiah, it is written, ''And he shall smite a land with the rod of his mouth and with the breath of his lips he shall slay the wicked'' (Yishayahu\Isaiah 11:4).
And even though, it is possible to curse without hating, based on the Be'ur Halacha to Siman 1 beginning with the words V'lo Yitbayesh we can conclude that definitely the Chafetz Chaim, for purely spiritual reasons, did hate Trotsky.
To spare the reader from having to seek out the source, I'll quote the passage :
"But if he is standing in a place that has Apikorsim (heretics) that rise up against the Torah and wish to enact some regulations in the matters of the city, and by means of this they will bring the people to transgress the will of G-d; and he opened in peace, and his words were not obeyed. In such a situation the Beit Yosef did not speak of at all. And it is a mitzvah to hate them and quarrel with them and nullify their plotting with all that he has the ability to do. And King David, peace be unto him said, '' Do I not hate, Hashem, those that hate you and with those that rise up against you , I shall quarrel ! I hate them with an utmost hatred: I count them as my enemies''. (Psalms 139:21,22)
We clearly see from the above, that it is wrong to display groundless love to extremely wicked Jews, (in modern times, such as, Trotsky) .
Most important, everything has a season - there is a time for mercy and a time for such traits as cruelty, all in keeping with Hashem's commands and definitions. Whoever emulates Hashem's attributes properly brings kindness and goodness to the world. This is the point of the Mishna (Berachot 54A): 'Love Hashem your L-rd with all your heart' (Deut. 6:5): With your two impulses, good and evil.
From the holy lips of Rabbeinu Yona emerged the following Divine words:
We can say that the good impulse is for such traits as mercy and that the evil impulse was created for cruelty. When one shows the evildoers no pity and is cruel to them, he does a great mitzvah, serving G-d with his evil impulse.
How great Rabbeinu Yona's words! How opposed to ideas of the sons of the alien culture of our times!
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I'm not going to write anything anymore. I'm simply going to quote your own rabbis and let people interested in truth see for themselves what Judaism teaches:
Just in case, let's compare now with this: http://www.al-islam.org/islamic-family-life-sayyid-akhtar-rizvi/parents-and-children#superiority-mothers-rights
You see the paradox?
How in the world does violent and murderous religion like islam sometimes teach moral stuff? And how in the world does Judaism prefer to promote Greek/Roman views as "Halacha"? What does it say? The only thing it does say is that all religions are capable of teaching both good and evil things. That's why I no longer want to be part of Judaism. Who are we to criticize other religions when ours sometimes contains much worse teachings (this being an example)? We're all humans and we're all capable of changing systems to better standards.
That's all! You probably not going to see me here again. Everyone here hates me and wants me banned. Some even want me to die. LKZ continues to bash me even after I proposed peace. He also wished me cancer. What's the point to keep arguing with uncivilized savages like him who wish other people cancer and rejoice when their loved ones die?
Good bye!
For the 100th time,
It is immoral for a father to demand his child not to say Kaddish for the mother. The halachic sources deal with ALL hypothetical situations. NO ONE HAS EVER ENCOURAGED A FATHER TO BEHAVE LIKE THIS.
Even if it's immoral, the rabbis have to answer the question, what does the child do? You still have no idea how halacha rabbinic literature and Talmud works.
The question is, if you are the child, and your father has done x, y , and z, which might be really really bad, but he has done it and we can't undo it, NOW WHAT? What is the law? What is the legal requirement of the child in that case? And then some say this way some say that way because it's a dispute. You attack one side of the dispute. We have already quoted many rabbis here who on ethical grounds said you do not have to follow that demand of the father even in the face of the DEORAISA - TORAH COMMANDMENT to honor one's father. But you won't listen. Because you saw blood and want to paint Judaism as evil.
It goes back to an old machlokes, there is requirement to honor father and mother. Everyone agrees. What happens if IN A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION, you can only perform one act, and hanging in the balance is a choice - either you honor the father or your honor the mother and IN THIS HYPOTHETICAL IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO BOTH, SO YOU HAVE TO PICK ONE - OK, now what is the halacha? A machloket! Some say this. Some say that. Halachic deciders ruled on it. That machloket is tied to this question about the kaddish thing. Which is why some use it to say listen to the father. But there are other factors involved. So many rabbis including the quoted Rabbi Bar Hayim do not say one must listen to the demand. And one does not have to follow every single extraneous one-liner they find in voluminous millions of pages of rabbinic literature. But This troll wants to portray a falsehood.
There is no winning with a troll missionary propagandist because they will just continue to paste their one-liners, never answer direct questions, never admit to being wrong, and simply flat out LIE to achieve their agenda. Goodbye.
The fact that someone could argue this hypothetical question about saying kaddish would be "MORE EVIL" than Islam the religion of 9/11, jihad, murder of infidels, etc. shows a severe mental deficiency.
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This choker failed to missionize the forum because we were too smart for his arguments, so now he runs away and cries foul. Pathetic!
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Israel Chai quotes the troll as saying:The troll thinks this will cause me a feeling of remorse.
On the contrary, I hope the troll does leave this forum because the troll is a heretic who is trying to cause the people to sin against the Torah.
http://www.vilnagaon.org/book/hatred.html
It's happened a million times in a million forums, it's a pathetic tactic.
First, if now you say "oh so sorry please don't leave", he's in control. For people visiting the forum, he has tried to make it look like we're hateful. When he comes back with his new troll account, which they always do, they if we did feel bad, we'll be slower to attack him for saying Islam is the best and that he hates Judaism. Finally, missionaries get most of their converts by creating a loving and welcoming environment, so lonely and disenfranchised people are drawn into the group and their desire to belong, like a street gang. The trolls keep attacking JTF on that, because it discourages members.
How bout instead of throwing away any work you did on this election into the trash by tolerating trolls that make the forum look bad, you ban them when it's obvious they have nothing to contribute? Hmm? If any regular American came here from a video and saw the thread, you can almost guarantee he didn't stay. The purpose of this forum this election was not to support Ted Cruz, but to give a platform to a commie and to make chilul Hashem about Judaism.
You all know I didn't appreciate people jumping on me when I came here, and I know I'm a bit smarter than most, so I rationalized the lies I had grown up with, and presented them well. I do that because I don't know what's right, and it works great when you put what you know out there and let it get criticized.
Repeating the same slogans over and over again after you've been responded to is not how to learn. People that do that are trying to indoctrinate, and I felt better about turning threads into a war zone and look terrible to anyone who came here to support Cruz, because not making chilul Hashem is more important than the election. That being said, I'd have rather you ban him, ,and we could deal with him when the election is over, instead of wasting a lot of time for the people here, and guaranteeing no new members from whoever reads his garbage or the response.
I like this forum, firstly because of the information you disseminate, and secondly because you handle trolls. If the forum is infested, then I'll just come for the videos, I want to help, but talking with trolls here does not help America or Israel.
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It's happened a million times in a million forums, it's a pathetic tactic.
First, if now you say "oh so sorry please don't leave", he's in control. For people visiting the forum, he has tried to make it look like we're hateful. When he comes back with his new troll account, which they always do, they if we did feel bad, we'll be slower to attack him for saying Islam is the best and that he hates Judaism. Finally, missionaries get most of their converts by creating a loving and welcoming environment, so lonely and disenfranchised people are drawn into the group and their desire to belong, like a street gang. The trolls keep attacking JTF on that, because it discourages members.
How bout instead of throwing away any work you did on this election into the trash by tolerating trolls that make the forum look bad, you ban them when it's obvious they have nothing to contribute? Hmm? If any regular American came here from a video and saw the thread, you can almost guarantee he didn't stay. The purpose of this forum this election was not to support Ted Cruz, but to give a platform to a commie and to make chilul Hashem about Judaism.
You all know I didn't appreciate people jumping on me when I came here, and I know I'm a bit smarter than most, so I rationalized the lies I had grown up with, and presented them well. I do that because I don't know what's right, and it works great when you put what you know out there and let it get criticized.
Repeating the same slogans over and over again after you've been responded to is not how to learn. People that do that are trying to indoctrinate, and I felt better about turning threads into a war zone and look terrible to anyone who came here to support Cruz, because not making chilul Hashem is more important than the election. That being said, I'd have rather you ban him, ,and we could deal with him when the election is over, instead of wasting a lot of time for the people here, and guaranteeing no new members from whoever reads his garbage or the response.
I like this forum, firstly because of the information you disseminate, and secondly because you handle trolls. If the forum is infested, then I'll just come for the videos, I want to help, but talking with trolls here does not help America or Israel.
How many times did I apologize to you and how many times did you refuse an apology and continued trashing me? How many times did you and your buddy edu turned what could be a legitimate debate into personal attacks against me? How many times are you going to lie that I said "Judaism treats women worse than pisslam" (never mind I've never said it and actually made it clear that, in most cases, it is not so)? Your tactics are to spread vicious lies against people like me who just want to have legitimate discussions on any topic. Let's not forget what you did with that Belgian guy "Order 777". You first provoced him into writing insulting stuff by insulting his religion, then started spreading vicious lies against him and eventually got him banned. Now you wish me and my whole family to "die of cancer"? You're sick piece of slime! You are the cancer. If there is a problem on this forum, it is YOU.
Again, if you claim to love Judaism, let's go Jewish way then: bring two legitimate witnesses who personally saw me engaging in missionary activities and can confirm it. If not, then [censored] off.
I have a personal website where I fight Islam and defend western values. You're just a forum rat who likes starting fights with people. Get a life, imbecile!
I wasn't trying to be funny. Delete the threads, or ban the troll.
But you're the one who started this thread. Indeed, delete it. Pathetic loser!