Do real neo-nazis have rights?

[TheCoon]

Right to get a bullet in the head.

[Dr. Dan]

OK, so let's look at it this way.

The question is what was the motive for the crime.

Now if the motive was because the perp was starving and needed to get some food so he robbed you, the robbery went bad and he kills you. The crime isn't as bad as someone who kills you simply because your Jewish and he hates Jews.

I think you're wrong.  Murder = murder (that is if it wasn't in self-defense or man slaughter or maybe perhaps even neglegance.)

But if someone killed another person because he slept with his wife versus murder because the person was gay/black/jewish/muslim/christian/a woman/a man/white etc versus someone who had an intention to rob someone and then kill that person by accident...i think in my eyes those murders are almost equal and hateful.

Murder is murder...when someone is killed as a result of maliciousness and not accidental or self-defense they're dead never to come back to life again..murder is murder.hate or no hate.

[Yisrael]

OK, so let's look at it this way.

The question is what was the motive for the crime.

Now if the motive was because the perp was starving and needed to get some food so he robbed you, the robbery went bad and he kills you. The crime isn't as bad as someone who kills you simply because your Jewish and he hates Jews.

I think you're wrong.  Murder = murder (that is if it wasn't in self-defense or man slaughter or maybe perhaps even neglegance.)

But if someone killed another person because he slept with his wife versus murder because the person was gay/black/jewish/muslim/christian/a woman/a man/white etc versus someone who had an intention to rob someone and then kill that person by accident...i think in my eyes those murders are almost equal and hateful.

Murder is murder...when someone is killed as a result of maliciousness and not accidental or self-defense they're dead never to come back to life again..murder is murder.hate or no hate.

Murder is Murder. You're damn right.

But the motive for the murder counts too.

Say someone kills his ex because she dumped him - she hurt his feelings, humiliated him, so he goes and kill her. Wrong? Absolutely. Murderer? Yes. But he was hurt and wanted to hurt her back. Death Penalty case.

Now about the Nazi who kills you simply because you are Jewish. You didn't do anything to him. He never met you before. All you are doing is wearing a Kippah. Don't you think the Nazi is a "worse" murderer?

He should be executed too, but by being tortured to death.

He killed out of hate for you for who you are. The boyfriend killed because he was hurt.

Both are murderers, one has sever anger issues, one is just a hater.

Both should get killed, but one is worse.


 

[Dr. Dan]

OK, so let's look at it this way.

The question is what was the motive for the crime.

Now if the motive was because the perp was starving and needed to get some food so he robbed you, the robbery went bad and he kills you. The crime isn't as bad as someone who kills you simply because your Jewish and he hates Jews.

I think you're wrong.  Murder = murder (that is if it wasn't in self-defense or man slaughter or maybe perhaps even neglegance.)

But if someone killed another person because he slept with his wife versus murder because the person was gay/black/jewish/muslim/christian/a woman/a man/white etc versus someone who had an intention to rob someone and then kill that person by accident...i think in my eyes those murders are almost equal and hateful.

Murder is murder...when someone is killed as a result of maliciousness and not accidental or self-defense they're dead never to come back to life again..murder is murder.hate or no hate.

Murder is Murder. You're damn right.

But the motive for the murder counts too.

Say someone kills his ex because she dumped him - she hurt his feelings, humiliated him, so he goes and kill her. Wrong? Absolutely. Murderer? Yes. But he was hurt and wanted to hurt her back. Death Penalty case.

Now about the Nazi who kills you simply because you are Jewish. You didn't do anything to him. He never met you before. All you are doing is wearing a Kippah. Don't you think the Nazi is a "worse" murderer?

He should be executed too, but by being tortured to death.

He killed out of hate for you for who you are. The boyfriend killed because he was hurt.

Both are murderers, one has sever anger issues, one is just a hater.

Both should get killed, but one is worse.


 

Listen: Murder = Murder

Murderers from malice should be given the death penalty. And then after the death penalty they'll be dead.  Some advocate electricution; others lethal injection; others via hanging; other through stoning others via bullets to the head others by torture before hand.

In my opinion, toruture is only good if you need to get vital information out of an enemy to save lives.
But the bottom line of a death penalty is death to the guilty person..i dont' care how.

One problem with torture before death is that death will be a relief to the person.  If the person is alive and well, the experience of awaiting death can be a scary thing even if one chooses to be "brave" about it.

and bottom line, we only really get one life in this world..as far as we know

and if there really is a hell, then all guilty people will suffer in the after life...

so bottom line, a jealous ex boyfriend or a nazi murderer...both are bad...it doesn't matter which is worse because both deserve the same punishment.

[Yisrael]

Ok, but let's not use the extreme. How about an Assault Vs. a Hate fueled Assault?

[RationalThought110]

You don't need to be patriotic to be an American, because America is a democracy.

I disagree.  Unpatriotic people hate the country and don't belong in the country.

If there were to be more unpatriotic people in the country, it would be more likely that unpatriotic politicians would get elected.  If you think things are bad now, they would get worse.



There's a difference between disagreeing on a policy and patriotism.  Many of the moveon.org, DailyKos, etc, are unpatriotic.  In contrast, most conservatives, while disagreeing with policies, are patriotic. 

[Dr. Dan]

Ok, but let's not use the extreme. How about an Assault Vs. a Hate fueled Assault?

If someone assaulted me because I had a big nose versus someone who assaulted me for being a jew versus someone assaulting another to rob him...

all are assaults and all deserve a penalty, fine, and jail time.  The one that did it for hate..so if he hated me because he simply was jealous versus another that baselessly assaulted me because I was Jewish...it's still an assault, but the one that did it because he hated me for being a Jew should take lots of classes and get lots of help to change his petty little brain...that is he needs to be brain washed with electricution to not hate people baselessly.

[Yisrael]

You don't need to be patriotic to be an American, because America is a democracy.

I disagree.  Unpatriotic people hate the country and don't belong in the country.

If there were to be more unpatriotic people in the country, it would be more likely that unpatriotic politicians would get elected.  If you think things are bad now, they would get worse.



There's a difference between disagreeing on a policy and patriotism.  Many of the moveon.org, DailyKos, etc, are unpatriotic.  In contrast, most conservatives, while disagreeing with policies, are patriotic. 

Again, that's what you feel should be. The title of this thread isn't SHOULD neo-Nazis have rights, rather DO they have. And the answer is yes.

I think so too. I believe in the philosophy of AMERICA: LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!

I think that part of being an American means you have to be loyal and love this country, if not, leave it.

On September 20th of 2001 President Bush said "Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. " I think today we should say today "Every American, in every city, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

WE WILL NEVER FORGET AND WE WILL NEVER FORGIVE! GOD BLESS THE U.S. OF A.

[Yisrael]

Ok, but let's not use the extreme. How about an Assault Vs. a Hate fueled Assault?

If someone assaulted me because I had a big nose versus someone who assaulted me for being a jew versus someone assaulting another to rob him...

all are assaults and all deserve a penalty, fine, and jail time.  The one that did it for hate..so if he hated me because he simply was jealous versus another that baselessly assaulted me because I was Jewish...it's still an assault, but the one that did it because he hated me for being a Jew should take lots of classes and get lots of help to change his petty little brain...that is he needs to be brain washed with electricution to not hate people baselessly.

I strongly disagree with you, but hey, you may be right. I still think that we have to look at the motive, and based on motive assign a punishment.

But I hear you.

[Dr. Dan]

Ok, but let's not use the extreme. How about an Assault Vs. a Hate fueled Assault?

If someone assaulted me because I had a big nose versus someone who assaulted me for being a jew versus someone assaulting another to rob him...

all are assaults and all deserve a penalty, fine, and jail time.  The one that did it for hate..so if he hated me because he simply was jealous versus another that baselessly assaulted me because I was Jewish...it's still an assault, but the one that did it because he hated me for being a Jew should take lots of classes and get lots of help to change his petty little brain...that is he needs to be brain washed with electricution to not hate people baselessly.

I strongly disagree with you, but hey, you may be right. I still think that we have to look at the motive, and based on motive assign a punishment.

But I hear you.

I mean in principle i only agree when it comes down to assault or murder, 1st degre, 2nd degree, 3rd degree etc... It's a matter of putting what deserves in each category. Premeditated murder based on baseless hatred is still first degree murder.  Premediated murder based on jealousy is also first degree...and if the punishment is the death penalty, you're gonna kill the hateful racist worse than the other? It makes no sense to me...

[EagleEye]

When people say yes, I initially got suspicious, but now I realized they are simply arguing that our current regime (in America, and probably in Israel) does give them rights.  But put it this way.  If I (or many of the posters here) had "power," neo-nazis would be treated with extreme cruelty.

[Yisrael]

When people say yes, I initially got suspicious, but now I realized they are simply arguing that our current regime (in America, and probably in Israel) does give them rights.  But put it this way.  If I (or many of the posters here) had "power," neo-nazis would be treated with extreme cruelty.

If I was running this country I would lock up neo-Nazis.

I would ban the Koran, destroy every Mosque, jail every Imam, and execute any terrorist.

But in America as it is today, Nazis like everyone else have rights.

[EagleEye]

When people say yes, I initially got suspicious, but now I realized they are simply arguing that our current regime (in America, and probably in Israel) does give them rights.  But put it this way.  If I (or many of the posters here) had "power," neo-nazis would be treated with extreme cruelty.

If I was running this country I would lock up neo-Nazis.

I would ban the Koran, destroy every Mosque, jail every Imam, and execute any terrorist.

But in America as it is today, Nazis like everyone else have rights.

I agree with those policies.

[jsullivan]

In the U.S. of A., every U.S. citizen has constitutional rights which include free speech and the right to assemble. This means, neo-Nazis have the right to exercise their benefits of being a citizen of the great U.S. of A.

We also have hate crime laws which turn any crime perpetrated out of hate for a protected minority group into a hate crime, thus making the consequences much more severe.

As much as I may find their ideology repugnant, they have full rights as U.S. citizens like any other American.

We need to have our constitutional rights for ALL Americans in order to ensure that right for you, me, and anyone else. It's either EVERYONE has the right, or only one group will end up with it like what happened in Nazi Germany.

I do feel that the consequences for a crime committed out of hate for a minority by neo-Nazis should have a harsher penalty then the law currently allows.

In Israel however, neo-Nazis should be deported or jailed for life. Israel shouldn't provide a sanctuary for any ideology that wants to destroy the Jewish state or the Jewish people. I don't believe that Israel should be a democracy, rather a JEWISH STATE.

JMHO

Yisrael, I cannot believe that a Jew would write such sick things about NAZIS.
Nazis have Constitutional rights?! The beasts who murdered over 6 million Jews and aspire to exterminate the entire Jewish people have rights?!
You are the ultimate example of what happens when a Jew puts Western law above Torah law.
UNDER TORAH LAW, NAZIS ARE TO BE MERCILESSLY KILLED IMMEDIATELY.
Even in Israel, you write that Nazis should be "deported or jailed for life". Are you joking? If Chaim and JTF ever take over Israel, you think Nazis would be deported or jailed? That's what you think should happen to the beasts who want to murder every Jew on this planet?

[jsullivan]

In the U.S., "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" are listed among the "unalienable rights" of man. However, when certain people use these rights to infringe on other people's rights, that's where it gets cloudy.

This issue is "cloudy"? Not for me! For me, this could not be any clearer.

I am really disappointed to see that even on this forum, we have Jews who afflicted with the disease of "objectivity". These Jews are "objective" even when it comes to Nazis!

What should happen to all Nazis? THE SAME DAMN THING THAT THEY DID TO 6 MILLION JEWS.

[Yisrael]

Sullivan, read my posts carefully.

I said that in the U.S. of A. THEY HAVE RIGHTS, I didn't give them the rights, the US Government did.     
 
I also said:
 
If I was running this country I would lock up neo-Nazis.

Next, I said the Israeli neo-Nazis. They should be jailed or deported back to Russia. That's where they came from.

[jsullivan]

Sullivan, read my posts carefully.

I said that in the U.S. of A. THEY HAVE RIGHTS, I didn't give them the rights, the US Government did.     
 
I also said:
 
If I was running this country I would lock up neo-Nazis.

Next, I said the Israeli neo-Nazis. They should be jailed or deported back to Russia. That's where they came from.

I know exactly what you wrote. You wrote:

"We need to have our constitutional rights for ALL Americans in order to ensure that right for you, me, and anyone else. It's either EVERYONE has the right, or only one group will end up with it like what happened in Nazi Germany."

You wrote that if Nazis lose their rights, then we all may lose our rights. That's the same thing that the ACLU says. And it shows that you have no understanding of Torah law. It also shows that you have no understanding of history.

BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU SAYING THAT WE HAVE TO GIVE NAZIS RIGHTS IN WEIMAR GERMANY, THE NAZIS WERE ABLE TO EVENTUALLY TAKE POWER. IF JEWS HAD PHYSICALLY CONFRONTED THE NAZIS WHEN THEY WERE STILL A SMALL MOVEMENT IN GERMANY, AND IF A JEWISH UNDERGROUND HAD ASSASSINATED HITLER BEFORE HE TOOK POWER, THERE WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN A HOLOCAUST OR A WORLD WAR.

NAZIS HAVE NO RIGHTS. AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE SECULAR LAW SAYS. THERE IS A HIGHER LAW THAT JEWS MUST LIVE BY.

[Yisrael]

Wait a second.

I never said that Jews shouldn't confront and beat up Nazis.

What I said was that the government can't decide what groups may or may not speak.

Jews should beat up Nazis, missionaries, Muslims, and anyone that threatens our lives.

[EagleEye]

I agree that Hitler rose to power because Jews and others failed to kill him.  People who are evil deserve to die.

[Ultra Requete]

I agree that Hitler rose to power because Jews and others failed to kill him.  People who are evil deserve to die.

They were many attempts to kill him done by many people; But those who have been chosen as champion by satan or some say even possed by him; are hard to kill. Buttom line the present threat are not neo nazis clowns; but muslims who absorbed nazi teachings during and after WWII. The title of thread shoud be changed to  Re: Do real neo-nazis and muslim nazis shoud have rights?

[EagleEye]

I agree, Muslims are a threat today more so than Hiterlites, but there are probably some peopel who consider themselves Muslim who simply know very little about the religion.

[decimos]

they have no rights.none at all.Reason,an ideology that goes out of its way to murder MILLIONS of people that belong to a creed or belief should expect no mercy,as they,showed none. HaShem should obliterate them.and he will!