Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Woman as Rabbis(or preists for the Gentiles)
takebackourtemple:
What I mean is equal rights in its true form. This means not appointing or barring someone soley because of their gender or ethincity. Affirmative action is not equal rights. With the equal rights comes equal responsibility. This means not taking the chance of getting blood on the torah, but also means not taking the chance of getting semen on it. Hopefully I'm not out of line, but I see the blood as the greatest danger of having a woman on the beema with the torah.
LeChayim:
--- Quote from: takebackourtemple on November 22, 2006, 11:13:11 PM --- What I mean is equal rights in its true form. This means not appointing or barring someone soley because of their gender or ethincity. Affirmative action is not equal rights. With the equal rights comes equal responsibility. This means not taking the chance of getting blood on the torah, but also means not taking the chance of getting semen on it. Hopefully I'm not out of line, but I see the blood as the greatest danger of having a woman on the beema with the torah.
--- End quote ---
This is not an issue of equal rights. It is an issue of Halachah (Jewish law). The Torah does not perscribe equal rights to us all. This may not seem fair to you and me, but G-d is smarter than us, and He said that there should be different roles and different responsibilities and different rights, between people. Sometimes we understand His reasons, sometimes we don't. But He's always right.
There is a man in my Shul (synagogue), who always gets the first aliyah (ascendance to the Torah). I think it would be nice if perhaps they would give it to someone else once in a while. But they don't. He is a Cohen. So, he gets the first aliyah, and then I have to wait for the Levi, and then the rest of us can get in line.
Is that equality? Of course not. It's Halachah.
This has nothing to do with getting blood on the Bimah (the platform holding the Torah), how ridiculous. It's about a woman's role in life versus a man's role in life. G-d, Who designed us and made us, says that there are differences between us, and assigned us different roles.
There are also differences between Jews and Gentiles. The Torah says we are a holy people, and a chosen people. And while we can keep the Shabbat (the Sabbath), Gentiles can not. And only a Jew can get an aliyah, and only a Jew can enter into the Covenant (the act of circumsision alone will not do it), and eat the Passover Sacrifice, and perform kosher slaughter, and be King in Israel (actually, only a paternal descendant of King David), and a whole bunch of other things.
Equality? Of Course not. Halachah.
Did you ever see a football game, where the Safety decided he was going to play Defensive End, and the Left Tackle decided he was going to be the Kicker? Sure it can be done, but then it won't be football. It'll be more like a circus.
Same here. You want equality? It can be done, but it won't be Judaism. It will be "takebackourtemple-ism."
adam613:
Like I said. Forcing equality causes more "inequality." and is always a scam anyway. If they did allow women Rabbi's they wouldn't be treated the same way as male Rabbi's (and the requirements woudln't be the same) and to pretend that they would is more silly impossible "what-if" possibilities.
takebackourtemple:
LeChayim,
I guess you are right and I am wrong. My apologies. As a non-religious Jew I am less educated in the religion. I am often untrusting of the spoken law, because much of the oral law as practiced today has been corrupted by European cult philosophy. I see myself as a Jew rather than a Yid. I am proud of my biblical heritage, but ashamed of my European one. The problem is that I need to separate what is Jewish from what is European and sometimes I don't know how to tell.
When something is argued verbally and different people argue different things, it is difficult to know what is correct and what is not. When something is stated clearly in the written torah, it is indisputable. So far I am convinced that a woman cannot perform rabbinical duties during her period. Whether she can be a rabbi at all, I don't know if it is Jewish law or tradition. I do believe, however, that women did not serve the duties of priests in the days of the temples. That is why I'm asking for solid references based on the written torah and no other source.
Since you brought up the point of Cohenim and Levim, I thought I would mention a dream that really shook me several years ago. In this dream hashem gave me the chance to be a Cohen or a Levy. This is something that he normally doesn't do, but being all powerful gave me the choice. The catch was that if I made the choice, I would be bound by all the laws of it. I felt it would be an irresponsible decision to take and didn't do so. My feeling about most women who call themselves rabbis, whether hashem gave them such a choice or not, is that they made an irresponsible choice. The link I posted to beit tikva is one such example.
I have yet to see one that is worthy of such a position, but have not ruled out hashem's power to allow such a thing. Remember the Cohenim and Levim have earned their place with hashem through rightous deeds. While people are not equal in the torah, everyone has the chance to earn a better place.
jdl4ever:
I take offense to you calling European traditions cult like. My grandparents come from Europe and when they were in their towns, they practiced authetic Judaism for a thousand years until they were driven out by the nazis. There is nothing more pure to judaism than the traditions of your european ancestors since what they practiced is what Judaism is all about and was relatively unchaned for about a thousand years since they were relatively isolated in their communities. I take pride in my heritage and I have absorbed all of my grandparents stories and teachings that were passed down to him by his father for generations. Those who break the chain of tradition are those who destroy. It is the reform and conservative Jews who messed things up and maybee the Chassidim had a little to do with it as well.
Also I think you are not educated in the oral law. To the novice it appears that there are too many arguments to get a clear picture but this is not true. To the learned person, it is apparent when reading the Mishna for example that 99% of the time all the Rabbis agreed on a general concept but only argue on the specifics of this concept. I suggest you study the Mishna and you will find that it is very clear and almost all the time the Rabbis agree with certaintly that a specific issue was handed down through Moses. For example, all agree that reading the Shema is a positive commandment and must be read in the morning but they have different opinions of when the latest time is that you can read the Shema. Similarly, the Gemara spends dozens of confusing pages arguing back and forth to find the correct law via logical deruvation so it seems confusing, but when proof is finally reached, the law is clearly established and it is no longer confusing most of the time.
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