Author Topic: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?  (Read 6263 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nessuno

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5533
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2007, 09:44:59 PM »
and No!
Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline Ehud

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2476
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2007, 12:31:51 AM »
Well, it could be a terrorist act, depends on how you define it!  Just because the word "terrorist" is tainted and associated with Islamic scumbags, does not change the actual meaning or definition of a terrorist act.  First of all, terrorism does not require killings, it doesn't require bombings, it doesn't even require actual use of force.  There are many subtle forms of terrorism that happen all over the world that aren't paid attention to and considered "terrorist acts."  When Iranian women are afraid to go out onto the streets dressed in Western clothing due to threats and violent action taken against other women, that can be seen as an act of terrorism.  Terrorism can be mere threats. 

Surely bombing a building for the purpose of coercing or intimidating the Soviet Union into freeing Soviet Jews can be a terrorist act.

Terrorism is changing though, and almost all substantial terrorism of today has the targeted killing of innocent civilians in common.  Killing innocent civilians is starting to become a requirement of a "terrorist act." 
Not all terrorist acts are evil, and not all of them spring from unjustified causes.  Remember the bombing of the King David Hotel by the Stern group whose acts of resistance against the British helped liberate the land of Israel.

I think that Chaim's bombings can be called terrorist acts.  That's not to say that they were unjustified.  It was a very minor form of terrorism, especially by today's standards, but it's still terrorism.

It wasn't terrorism that had any danger to the U.S. though, even though it took place on American soil, it was terrorism directed against the Soviet Union.  In light of that fact, the purposeful non-deadly nature of Chaim's bombings, and the worthy political end that was sought, his sentence should have been reduced.
"The Jews will eventually have to face up to what you're dealing with here.  The arabs will never love you for what good you've brought them.  They don't know how to really love.  But hate!  Oh, G-d, can they hate!  And they have a deep, deep, deep resentment because you have jolted them from their delusions of grandeur and shown them for what they are-a decadent, savage people controlled by a religion that has stripped them of all human ambition . . . except for the few cruel enough and arrogant enough to command them as one commands a mob of sheep.  You are dealing with a mad society and you'd better learn how to control it."

-Excerpt from The Haj by Leon Uris

Offline jdl4ever

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2000
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2007, 01:25:13 AM »
I couldn't care less about some evil communist Soviets who starved to death millions of their people, killed millions of their own people in Siberian death camps, outlawed religion, probably killed hundreds of thousands of Jews in Siberia, and took millions captive for over 50 years.  My father and grandparents lived there and what Chaim did was less than one thousandth of what should have been done to these animals.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2007, 01:27:31 AM by jdl4ever »
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

Boeregeneraal

  • Guest
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2007, 02:44:25 AM »
Given the circumstances I think it was not a terrorist act. His bombings didn't kill or hurt anyone. I totally admire Chaim for what he did. He gave up his own freedom to help his fellow people. If anything he is a hero.

In my eyes he was demonstrating just it was in a destructive way. He didn't cause any permanent damage. By no means is this a Terrorist act.

Had I been PM of Israel I would have:

1) Tried extradicting him to Israel and grant him immunity from any authorities. 
2) Give him a hero's welcome in Israel upon arrival.


 


i agree

Offline Mishmaat

  • Global Moderator
  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 2626
  • !עם ישראל חי
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2007, 04:10:46 AM »
No. Chaim should of been given an award for his heroism. He should of never served a single day in prison.

Offline Lisa

  • Forum Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9373
    • The Urban Grind
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2007, 09:15:31 PM »
Frank, considering that this is Chaim's forum, and the members here believe in Chaim's cause, I don't understand the point of you coming here and asking if what he did was a "terrorist" act. 

ftf

  • Guest
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2007, 09:39:18 PM »
I think I'm right in saying that Chaim hurt at least one person, there was some viscous Jew hater that Chaim attacked with a baseball bat, he didn't kill the guy though.

So, Chaim's "crimes" altogether would be accurately described as battery, and vandalism.

However, the fact is that his repeated vandalism did put some terror into the head's of some Jew haters, and therefore, you could technically say that he committed some terrorism, as people became terrified of losing their property.

Another fact is that what he did should not have been necessary, no one should have needed to put pressure on people to stop killing Jews,. and therefore, Chaim's crimes should not be classed as crimes at all, they were his civic duty, and he is an upstanding citizen for having carried them out.

Offline MassuhDGoodName

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4542
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2007, 11:21:24 PM »
Re:  "...there was some viscous Jew hater that Chaim attacked with a baseball bat..."

Well, I hope Chaim had the good sense to use an old-fashioned Louisville Slugger and not one of those new-fangled aluminum bats!

Offline youdontlikeme

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2007, 11:35:49 PM »
Apparantely leftwing New York Times does.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE4DF1039F934A15753C1A961948260

A former head of the Jewish Defense League was sentenced yesterday to 10 years in Federal prison for taking part in a series of ''terrorist bombings'' in the New York area since 1984 to protest Soviet treatment of Jews.

....

In sentencing the defendant, Victor Vancier, 30 years old, of Whitestone, Queens, Judge I. Leo Glasser of Federal District Court in Brooklyn sternly told him, ''You don't go bombing innocent people to make a point.''

......

He said he regarded Mr. Vancier as ''a danger to this community'' and, at the request of the Federal prosecutor, Charles E. Rose, he revoked Mr. Vancier's $1 million bail. According to the authorities, Mr. Vancier served as national chairman of the J.D.L. from April 1985 until November 1986. Two Others Sentenced

.....


''It's fair to say he's a little bit nuts,'' the lawyer said. But he asked that Mr. Vancier be spared a term in prison, where he ''would be subjected to attacks and animosity.'' 'Utterly Lawless'
Chaim have you ever been in the former Soviet Uniun?

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2007, 11:38:45 PM »
Apparantely leftwing New York Times does.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE4DF1039F934A15753C1A961948260

A former head of the Jewish Defense League was sentenced yesterday to 10 years in Federal prison for taking part in a series of ''terrorist bombings'' in the New York area since 1984 to protest Soviet treatment of Jews.

....

In sentencing the defendant, Victor Vancier, 30 years old, of Whitestone, Queens, Judge I. Leo Glasser of Federal District Court in Brooklyn sternly told him, ''You don't go bombing innocent people to make a point.''

......

He said he regarded Mr. Vancier as ''a danger to this community'' and, at the request of the Federal prosecutor, Charles E. Rose, he revoked Mr. Vancier's $1 million bail. According to the authorities, Mr. Vancier served as national chairman of the J.D.L. from April 1985 until November 1986. Two Others Sentenced

.....


''It's fair to say he's a little bit nuts,'' the lawyer said. But he asked that Mr. Vancier be spared a term in prison, where he ''would be subjected to attacks and animosity.'' 'Utterly Lawless'
Chaim have you ever been in the former Soviet Uniun?


you know,it's funny...either you are Israeli or you are an Albanian teenager who can't spell.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Ultra Requete

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2383
  • United We Stand, Dived We'll Fall.
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2007, 12:51:47 PM »
Soviets were never "inocent people" so any form of fighting them including using the terror tacktics, which Bolshevics used against own populace and all neighbours are legitimate to me. Furthermore his goal was to free Russian Jewry not to frighten the Kremlin into submission; So I call Chaim freedomfighter not terrorist.
Jeremiah 8:11-17

11 They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. Peace, peace, they say, when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.

13 'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'

14 Why are we sitting here? Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities and perish there! For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish and given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses is heard from Dan; at the neighing of their stallions the whole land trembles. They have come to devour the land and everything in it, the city and all who live there.

17 See, I will send venomous snakes among you, vipers that cannot be charmed, and they will bite you, declares the LORD.

Love your Enemy
And Heap Burning Coals on his Head!!!
http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm

Offline Joe Gutfeld

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3766
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2007, 12:56:16 PM »
That's why my father left the JDL because they were getting too violent for him.

kellymaureen

  • Guest
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2007, 01:00:07 PM »
No of course I dont

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23384
  • Real Kahanist
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2007, 01:08:41 PM »
We all know that if Chaim had been a black ape who bombed a South African embassy or cultural center to protest apartheid, not only would he have not been charged with anything, but given a Congressional medal of honor.  >:(

Offline Ultra Requete

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2383
  • United We Stand, Dived We'll Fall.
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2007, 01:09:07 PM »
That's why my father left the JDL because they were getting too violent for him.

Sometimes you have to crush some temples and broke some bones to get your point; next time the Jews must be prepered to shoot not beg. And frnakly speaking JDL was many times less violent than contemporary Black Panthers or KKK.
Jeremiah 8:11-17

11 They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. Peace, peace, they say, when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.

13 'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'

14 Why are we sitting here? Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities and perish there! For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish and given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses is heard from Dan; at the neighing of their stallions the whole land trembles. They have come to devour the land and everything in it, the city and all who live there.

17 See, I will send venomous snakes among you, vipers that cannot be charmed, and they will bite you, declares the LORD.

Love your Enemy
And Heap Burning Coals on his Head!!!
http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23384
  • Real Kahanist
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2007, 01:12:20 PM »
More Jew-haters, not fewer, need to be attacked.


Offline jerry1800

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 83
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2007, 01:20:50 PM »
R U B B I S H³

kellymaureen

  • Guest
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2007, 01:49:01 PM »
That's why my father left the JDL because they were getting too violent for him.

Sometimes you have to crush some temples and broke some bones to get your point; next time the Jews must be prepered to shoot not beg. And frnakly speaking JDL was many times less violent than contemporary Black Panthers or KKK.

Very very well said O0

Offline aggressi0n

  • Full JTFer
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2007, 02:02:46 PM »
What did he blow up?

Offline SerbChicago

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1110
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2007, 03:08:07 PM »
NO!
The truth,justice and Serbian way

Offline Joe Gutfeld

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3766
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2007, 06:24:28 PM »
Chaim helped bombed some Russian embassys because of their treatment to Russian Jews.

Offline serbian army

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2326
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2007, 07:05:09 PM »
he is our hero ;) O0 O0
Serbia will never surrender Kosovo to the breakaway province's ethnic Albanian majority or trade its territory for European Union or NATO membership,

Offline Joe Gutfeld

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3766
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2007, 07:06:03 PM »
some people think so.

Offline The Shadow

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 711
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2007, 10:00:03 PM »
This poster is just trying to start up trouble, you can tell by how it was worded. What a shittty post!

But anyway, thank God the Jews have a Chaim Ben Pesach.  If we had a few dozen like Chaim in the the late 1930's, you could bet your sweet asss that Hitler would have been "taken care of" before he came to real power. Could you imagine Chaim and a few other tough JDL guys waiting for Hitler to return to his house after giving one of his local speeches during his rise to power. I don't think you would recognize Hitler's body, if there was anything left of it, after the attack.

  And if Chaim were in power in Israel, you can just imagine how amazing Israel would be!  Israel would become the military and religious powerhouse it was meant to be. 

The Jews need more Chaim Ben Pesachs in this world!  God bless Chaim 10 times over.


Sincerely,

The Shadow 

kellymaureen

  • Guest
Re: Do you consider what Chaim did to be a terrorist act?
« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2007, 10:00:13 PM »
Chaim helped bombed some Russian embassys because of their treatment to Russian Jews.

And NO ONE was hurt