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To JSullivan: When will Chaim's rules for the dating sections be ready?

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LeChayim:

--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on November 26, 2006, 07:31:04 PM ---
--- Quote from: LeChayim on November 26, 2006, 05:36:36 PM --- In this week's parsha (weekly Torah portion), we read that when Jacob met Rachel for the first time, he kissed her. This is not a Midrash, or some Rabbi's interpretation or opinion. It's written in plain Hebrew. "And Jacob kissed Rachel" (Gen 29:11). Seven verses later, we learn that they had fallen in love ("And Jacob loved Rachel"). We see from here that affection - as well as physical attraction ("And Rachel was of beautiful form and fair to look upon") - is an acceptable part of an evolving relationship between a man and a woman, before they get married or even engaged.
--- End quote ---


I asked a rabbi about that. He said Jacob was able to kiss Rachel because he was on such a level and because she was his cousin. Today Jews are not on such a high level and can't even kiss their cousins before marriage.



--- End quote ---

(Pardon me, I'm about to have a tirade)

That's a bunch of horse manure!!! On a higher level. So I suppose, once you achieve a certain level, you are exempt from halachah? If it's allowed, it's allowed. If not, not. Besides, Yacov didn't consider himself to be on a higher level. Also, how convenient! We can then dismiss any evidence brought from our forefathers by claiming they were on a higher level. Please.

And as for the cousin thing. First of all, kissing a cousin makes it worse. And anyway, Yacov intended to marry her. He loved her as a potential wife, not "cousin Rachel."

See what I mean? This reinforces my conviction that so many Rabbis today are just - shall we say - not on a higher level.

Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
guys stop judging things based on emotions etc. people here arent experts, if you want to know the truth and follow it then go ask your local Rabbi ( one that follows real Halaha) ( expecially if he knows you well). Their are things a Rabbi might say to 1 person is okay and to another its not, their might be different situations for diff. people, and you cant say - you see this and that happened or I saw them do this or that , soo its okay , etc. p.s.- stop spending too much time on internet forums, and maybe spend a litlle more time in Beit Midrash, or just a place where you can study ( that goes for me too).
Rabbis made decrees for Jews because they saw and see that if one thing is allowed then people are going to break them and maybe go "all the way". if they would say that kissing allowed people would say then why not touching, and then they would say when not doing this and why not doing theat, when eventually their would be no more barriers or rules and where you have a society like the Western contries where people have sex with eachother, people are turning gay, and the next step is people having sex with animals ( oops it allready happened).

jdl4ever:
This might shock people but from what I know touching is permitted;  only touching intimitely is prohibited by the Rambam (derech chivah).  The Ramban disagrees with the Rambam that it is biblically prohibited to touch intimitely and says this is a Rabbinical decree.  I found this out from a different torah forum and I need to investigate myself if it is true. 

genteelgentile:
This is a really interesting discussion, but with all due respect, it kinda makes me glad I am not Jewish.  But I am  married anyhow, so whatever...

davkakach:

--- Quote from: genteelgentile on November 26, 2006, 10:19:09 PM ---This is a really interesting discussion, but with all due respect, it kinda makes me glad I am not Jewish.  But I am  married anyhow, so whatever...

--- End quote ---
It's a ____ job, but somebody's gotta do it.   ;)

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