Author Topic: Greetings from Germany!  (Read 17274 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Nora

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • Roncesvalles
Greetings from Germany!
« on: December 29, 2007, 07:47:33 PM »
I am a German gentile and I was brought here by a Jewish friend.

I am a friend of Israel and America, I believe them to be the guardians of our Western culture and I do NOT believe in a "moderate" Islam. I do not believe that "Old Europe" will be able to survive on its own either.

I am a technical translator by profession, my hobbies are huntin' shootin' fishin' and at my age, more sensible women are walking their grandchildren.

I hope this helps to understand where I am coming from.


A terrier makes you merrier!

Offline mord

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25853
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2007, 07:55:11 PM »
Welcome we have another wonderfull German member here Goldfasan
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

kellymaureen

  • Guest
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2007, 08:01:01 PM »
Welcome Nora :)

Offline Nora

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • Roncesvalles
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2007, 08:02:52 PM »
Thank you for clueing me up, mord! I must find him or her and say hi.

And thank you for kind greeting, kellymaureen!


A terrier makes you merrier!

Offline mord

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25853
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2007, 08:03:59 PM »
YES HE IS HERE OFTEN GREAT PERSON O0
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2007, 08:28:24 PM »
Wilgekommen!
Where in Germany are you from?
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline Hail Columbia

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1858
  • Vrijheid, Welvaart, Beschaving
    • AfricanCrisis, Africa's Premier Hard News Website
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2007, 09:43:38 PM »
Welcome to the board.


Learn the truth about rap "music": (Strongly recommended for new members)
www.geocities.com/wilder2k1
My MySpace site:
http://www.myspace.com/hailcolumbiajtf
My YouTube site:
http://www.youtube.com/user/HailColumbiaJTF
Dixie Outfitters, Preserving Southern Heritage Since 1861:
http://www.dixieoutfitters.com/
AfricanCrisis, Africa's Premier Hard News Website:
http://www.africancrisis.co.za
The Right Perspective, NYC's Most Dangerous Callers to Talk Radio, Airing Live Every Friday Night, 10 PM EST:
http://www.therightperspectivepodcastblog.blogspot.com/


In thy power Almighty, trusting,
Did our fathers build of old;
Strengthen then, O Lord, their children
To defend, to love, to hold
That the heritage they gave us
For our children yet may be:
Bondsmen only to the Highest
And before the whole world free.
As our fathers trusted humbly,
Teach us, Lord, to trust Thee still:
Guard our land and guide our people
In Thy way to do Thy will.

Offline Jasmina

  • Moderator
  • Master JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 2126
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2007, 09:50:56 PM »
welcome! you will have a nice time here on the JTF!!!!
The whole system works because everyone is not mentally ill on the same day!!!!

Offline Ulli

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10946
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2007, 10:02:38 PM »
Hello Nora :)
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline Nora

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • Roncesvalles
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2007, 03:10:55 AM »
Wilgekommen!
Where in Germany are you from?

Hello Ambiorix!

I am living in a small town near Zwickau in Saxony. That is in the former GDR. But I was born and raised in West Germany. The culture shock was (and still is) amazing.


A terrier makes you merrier!

Offline Nora

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • Roncesvalles
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2007, 03:13:39 AM »
I am a technical translator by profession, my hobbies are huntin' shootin' fishin' and at my age, more sensible women are walking their grandchildren.


Do you have grandchildren?

No. If I had, I would probably not prowl around in the woods with some crazy yapping terriers.  ;)


A terrier makes you merrier!

Offline Nora

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • Roncesvalles
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2007, 03:24:42 AM »
Hello Nora :)

Hello there! I know your site, Goldfasan, although I have never posted there. The anti-Islam brotherhood in Germany is so small, you may know me as the Roncesvalles-Blogger.

Glad to meet you!


A terrier makes you merrier!

Offline Nora

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • Roncesvalles
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2007, 03:36:42 AM »
Thank you for your kind welcome, Hail Columbia and Jasmina and everybody else!

I have noticed to my delight the wealth of topics here, apart from the political ones. I didn't expect that. To be honest, I just registered because my friend urged me to. Now I am glad I have.


A terrier makes you merrier!

Offline Nora

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • Roncesvalles
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2007, 04:22:38 AM »
Welcome, Nora!
I love your display picture!

Thank you, Mills!

The photo was taken by a professional photographer when they were little, the PhotoShop job I did myself. It really turned out well. (Immodest I'm not!)


A terrier makes you merrier!

Offline Nora

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • Roncesvalles
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2007, 06:34:58 AM »
Thank you for your kind welcome, Hail Columbia and Jasmina and everybody else!

I have noticed to my delight the wealth of topics here, apart from the political ones. I didn't expect that. To be honest, I just registered because my friend urged me to. Now I am glad I have.


Who is your friend?

Jerry1800.


A terrier makes you merrier!

Offline jerry1800

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 83
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2007, 08:57:52 AM »
yessssssssssss

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2007, 09:11:19 AM »
Wilgekommen!
Where in Germany are you from?

Hello Ambiorix!

I am living in a small town near Zwickau in Saxony. That is in the former GDR. But I was born and raised in West Germany. The culture shock was (and still is) amazing.

didnt the DDR renamed Chemnitz into "Karl-Marx-stadt"?
How do you mean shocking? How do the people there compare to West-Germans? some examples?

Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline Nora

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • Roncesvalles
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2007, 09:46:07 AM »
Wilgekommen!
Where in Germany are you from?

Hello Ambiorix!

I am living in a small town near Zwickau in Saxony. That is in the former GDR. But I was born and raised in West Germany. The culture shock was (and still is) amazing.

didnt the DDR renamed Chemnitz into "Karl-Marx-stadt"?
How do you mean shocking? How do the people there compare to West-Germans? some examples?
Yes, Chemnitz, formerly Karl-Marx-Stadt, formerly Chemnitz is not too far away from here.

Let me try to explain:

First, the people are much friendlier than at home. 16 months among them may be not enough for a serious assessment and I am far from having sorted out what is the 'inbred' good-naturedness of the Saxons (who have notably -- like the Bavarians -- never been Prussians) is and what the habitual sticking together against a totalitarian state and ducking a rigid system. People here will go out far of their way to help you, literally and metaphorically. I am experiencing it on an almost daily basis. Case in point: A friend of mine, who maybe shouldn't drive all over Europe alone in a small fast car, got lost at night while searching for my place. Some young people she had asked for directions piloted her here by leading her with their own car. I guess they drove at least 30 kilometers out of their way and then they made sure that my friend had safely arrived where she intended to arrive before they left. That kind of helpfulness is not unusual here but absolutely unheard of where I come from.

What Communism has destroyed is any gentility and that has only peripherally to do with poverty. One finds very few people with good manners or taste here, even among those with a good job and education. I think "gauche" is the word, or maybe "uncouth". Maybe that will go away, given time.

But what gets seriously on my nerves is the "DDR nostalgia". If one is talking about the former GDR-system it will probably start in quite a critical manner, but it will INVARIABLY end how this that and the other and basically everything had been absolutely wonderful back then.

Yeah! If you wanted to leave that effing country, you were shot dead at the border, but they had ALL places at the kindergarten for their children. I avoid talking about it if I can.

I am a Catholic myself and I find that the members of the small congregation (500 in a town of 25,000 inhabitants) have escaped those mechanisms, including the manners-thing, to an amazing extent. But then, they have never even begun to allow the system to swallow them, different from the Protestants. Why that is so is worth a doctor's thesis, not a message board post.

The communists absolutely hated and destroyed everything to do with the countryside. Have you ever heard of the LPGs? That was the term for the collective farms and they were an abomination against nature and mankind. They abolished all villages and put the farmers into huge ugly blocks of flats that are still disgracing the countryside and whereas the grand urban villas were just left to decay, traditional farmhouses and villages were vitually obliterated. They built grotesquely huge stables and siloes that set on the landscape like pockmarks and which are still there. They built gigantic tractors, even imported ROCKET tractors from Russia for agricultural purposes, whose sheer weight destroyed the soil, they obliterated the traditional fields and replaced them with acreage vaster than the eye can take in, and don't get me started what THAT did to flora and fauna. They hated the countryside and all it implied with a perverted, sick passion.

Not that this sort of "agriculture" was able to feed the population decently, mind you. But then, that wasn't its purpose in the first place.

The system crept in every nook and cranny of peoples' life, they sniffed the underwear, the bedclothes, they totally and utterly broke the people.

Many people here still can't meet your eyes, they behave like zombies if they have to see a member of the state authorities and they would never complain about anything because the police or other authorities are, for them, not there to help you, but to get you into trouble. 17 years don't get 40 years of dictatorship out of people's systems. On the other hand there are still those who had been or would have been informers in the "good" old days, who are fast like a lightning to threaten you with "calling the police" if they don't like something and it usually works a treat because people here are, as I said, frightened and will instantaneously cave in. I usually tell them to call the police pronto and the Stasi as well, which shuts them up quite effectively.

Such an opinion would bring me in trouble in todays Germany, mind you. At a time, when Nobel Laureate (and since then outed SS-man) Günther Grass calls the former GDR a "kommode Diktatur" (something like "comfortable dictatorship") and gets huge acclaim for it, an opinion like mine is highly unpopular.





A terrier makes you merrier!

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2007, 09:52:45 AM »
Wilgekommen!
Where in Germany are you from?

Hello Ambiorix!

I am living in a small town near Zwickau in Saxony. That is in the former GDR. But I was born and raised in West Germany. The culture shock was (and still is) amazing.

didnt the DDR renamed Chemnitz into "Karl-Marx-stadt"?
How do you mean shocking? How do the people there compare to West-Germans? some examples?
Yes, Chemnitz, formerly Karl-Marx-Stadt, formerly Chemnitz is not too far away from here.

Let me try to explain:

First, the people are much friendlier than at home. 16 months among them may be not enough for a serious assessment and I am far from having sorted out what is the 'inbred' good-naturedness of the Saxons (who have notably -- like the Bavarians -- never been Prussians) is and what the habitual sticking together against a totalitarian state and ducking a rigid system. People here will go out far of their way to help you, literally and metaphorically. I am experiencing it on an almost daily basis. Case in point: A friend of mine, who maybe shouldn't drive all over Europe alone in a small fast car, got lost at night while searching for my place. Some young people she had asked for directions piloted her here by leading her with their own car. I guess they drove at least 30 kilometers out of their way and then they made sure that my friend had safely arrived where she intended to arrive before they left. That kind of helpfulness is not unusual here but absolutely unheard of where I come from.

What Communism has destroyed is any gentility and that has only peripherally to do with poverty. One finds very few people with good manners or taste here, even among those with a good job and education. I think "gauche" is the word, or maybe "uncouth". Maybe that will go away, given time.

But what gets seriously on my nerves is the "DDR nostalgia". If one is talking about the former GDR-system it will probably start in quite a critical manner, but it will INVARIABLY end how this that and the other and basically everything had been absolutely wonderful back then.

Yeah! If you wanted to leave that effing country, you were shot dead at the border, but they had ALL places at the kindergarten for their children. I avoid talking about it if I can.

I am a Catholic myself and I find that the members of the small congregation (500 in a town of 25,000 inhabitants) have escaped those mechanisms, including the manners-thing, to an amazing extent. But then, they have never even begun to allow the system to swallow them, different from the Protestants. Why that is so is worth a doctor's thesis, not a message board post.

The communists absolutely hated and destroyed everything to do with the countryside. Have you ever heard of the LPGs? That was the term for the collective farms and they were an abomination against nature and mankind. They abolished all villages and put the farmers into huge ugly blocks of flats that are still disgracing the countryside and whereas the grand urban villas were just left to decay, traditional farmhouses and villages were vitually obliterated. They built grotesquely huge stables and siloes that set on the landscape like pockmarks and which are still there. They built gigantic tractors, even imported ROCKET tractors from Russia for agricultural purposes, whose sheer weight destroyed the soil, they obliterated the traditional fields and replaced them with acreage vaster than the eye can take in, and don't get me started what THAT did to flora and fauna. They hated the countryside and all it implied with a perverted, sick passion.

Not that this sort of "agriculture" was able to feed the population decently, mind you. But then, that wasn't its purpose in the first place.

The system crept in every nook and cranny of peoples' life, they sniffed the underwear, the bedclothes, they totally and utterly broke the people.

Many people here still can't meet your eyes, they behave like zombies if they have to see a member of the state authorities and they would never complain about anything because the police or other authorities are, for them, not there to help you, but to get you into trouble. 17 years don't get 40 years of dictatorship out of people's systems. On the other hand there are still those who had been or would have been informers in the "good" old days, who are fast like a lightning to threaten you with "calling the police" if they don't like something and it usually works a treat because people here are, as I said, frightened and will instantaneously cave in. I usually tell them to call the police pronto and the Stasi as well, which shuts them up quite effectively.

Such an opinion would bring me in trouble in todays Germany, mind you. At a time, when Nobel Laureate (and since then outed SS-man) Günther Grass calls the former GDR a "kommode Diktatur" (something like "comfortable dictatorship") and gets huge acclaim for it, an opinion like mine is highly unpopular.



Yes, in Russia the bolsheviks destroyed the farmer-class completely too... Amongst other bourgeois - classes.

Do average East-Germans think they had a better live under DDR?
I thought that they were happy the DDR collapsed?
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline Nora

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • Roncesvalles
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2007, 10:49:06 AM »
Do average East-Germans think they had a better live under DDR?
I thought that they were happy the DDR collapsed?

They were happy until they discovered that West Germans have to actually WORK for their prosperity.

As I said, according to them, EVERYTHING was better in the DDR. They pretended to work and the state pretended to pay them. They had to work ten years for a lousy car and if they told their minds they were could end up in the death cell but everything was ***screech*** just wonderful.

Apropos lousy car. In the city of Zwickau they celebrated the 50th birthday of the Trabant earlier this year with a big exhibition, including dummies in uniform, banners, flags, DDR-nationality markings, hammer and sickle, the lot. Now imagine the same for the Volkswagen, including Nazi-uniforms, flags with the swastika and all the trimmings. Unthinkable! (And rightfully so!) But WHAT makes nostalgia for another ugly dictatorship permissable, even likeable, for people would swoon at the sight of a swastika is beyond me. The hypocrisy drives me up the wall.

As I said, too, the people are kind and friendly here and I can't affort to alienate all my contacts, but I sometimes just want to scream.


A terrier makes you merrier!

Offline Ambiorix

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5180
  • There is no "Istanbul"
    • Brussels Journal
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2007, 10:50:47 AM »
Do average East-Germans think they had a better live under DDR?
I thought that they were happy the DDR collapsed?

They were happy until they discovered that West Germans have to actually WORK for their prosperity.

As I said, according to them, EVERYTHING was better in the DDR. They pretended to work and the state pretended to pay them. They had to work ten years for a lousy car and if they told their minds they were could end up in the death cell but everything was ***screech*** just wonderful.

Apropos lousy car. In the city of Zwickau they celebrated the 50th birthday of the Trabant earlier this year with a big exhibition, including dummies in uniform, banners, flags, DDR-nationality markings, hammer and sickle, the lot. Now imagine the same for the Volkswagen, including Nazi-uniforms, flags with the swastika and all the trimmings. Unthinkable! (And rightfully so!) But WHAT makes nostalgia for another ugly dictatorship permissable, even likeable, for people would swoon at the sight of a swastika is beyond me. The hypocrisy drives me up the wall.

As I said, too, the people are kind and friendly here and I can't affort to alienate all my contacts, but I sometimes just want to scream.

What do the East-Germans think about blacks/muslims/aliens?
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline Ultra Requete

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2383
  • United We Stand, Dived We'll Fall.
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2007, 11:33:32 AM »
We have the same kind of people in Poland they will tell you that comunism was better but try to ask them what was precisly the good; they'll shut up; although in comparison to other "demoluds" (all east block countries were oficialy "popular" and/or "democratic" republics) we had (after 1956) more cultural freedoms (Rock'N"Roll and pepsi ;)), farmlands in hands of pesants not state, small private buisneseses and craftmen and catholic church as alternative to comunist party. But the lack of noble class  is showing itself especialy in politics which lack the class and coherent direction. about blck/muslims The East Gemans propably still condier them as aliens the multiculturalism is very shalow concept here. Welcome Nora on our forum. :)       
Jeremiah 8:11-17

11 They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. Peace, peace, they say, when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.

13 'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'

14 Why are we sitting here? Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities and perish there! For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish and given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses is heard from Dan; at the neighing of their stallions the whole land trembles. They have come to devour the land and everything in it, the city and all who live there.

17 See, I will send venomous snakes among you, vipers that cannot be charmed, and they will bite you, declares the LORD.

Love your Enemy
And Heap Burning Coals on his Head!!!
http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm

Offline MassuhDGoodName

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4542
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2007, 11:39:39 AM »
Re:  "...according to them, EVERYTHING was better in the DDR..."

It is a fact of human nature, that when we look backwards we tend to remember only the positive aspects of our lives; we subconsciously repress memories of unpleasantness.

Add to that fact the terrible culture shock experienced, when slaves who from cradle to grave have had every aspect of their lives controlled and decided for them by others, are suddenly made free; expected to now function normally as individuals, not only in an unstable society where competition determines one's socio-economic status, but also in an unplanned economy in which one must make personal choices and decisions from amongst an almost endless array of market and career possibilities which present tremendous challenges, and for which they are unprepared.




Offline Nora

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • Roncesvalles
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2007, 03:37:51 PM »
Well, what about the xenophobia of the "Ossies"? Of course we have to differentiate between the politically correct elites and the people. The latter tend to beat strange looking foreigners up, to the hypocritical dismay of the latter, who adamantly refuse to see any connection between that specific sort of violence and that specific dictatorship, which ended, after all, only 18 years ago and may have something to do with the "no go" areas for coloureds in East Germany. But as it is, it's all "Neo-Nazi violence" a violence that came out of the blue, Neo-Nazi violence nobody dares to call post-Communist violence.

That we don't see even more of it is due to the fact that there are very few Muslims or Blacks in East Germany at all because, historically, the former GDR was friendly with the Communist countries from South East Asia, so you see a lot of East Asians here. They are hard-working (shops with horrible, cheap stuff and countless diners come to mind) and keep themselves to themselves. They are inoffensive and reasonably friendly and I have never found that people here are giving them much thought.

Another reason is that Muslims have a huge, thriving infrastructure in West Germany, so why bother with the East?

Yes, all that is sad and what is even sadder is the fact that there are places in West Germany -- no go areas -- where ethnic Germans better don't go. Places, where an unattended ethic German woman or girl better doesn't go. Places, where elderly ethnic Germans better don't go -- AND NO GERMAN MEDIUM EVER GIVES A DAMN. But here I digress from your question what East Germans think about foreigners/Muslims.

I guess the non-violent majority of Germans here just can't fathom what life in a Muslim-ruled town, city or neighbourhood is like, so they won't find them the threat they clearly are. It's not much of a topic here anyway.

To be honest, I personally, find the absence of Muslims maybe THE most redeeming quality here.


A terrier makes you merrier!

Offline Nora

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • Roncesvalles
Re: Greetings from Germany!
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2007, 03:44:57 PM »
We have the same kind of people in Poland they will tell you that comunism was better but try to ask them what was precisly the good; they'll shut up; although in comparison to other "demoluds" (all east block countries were oficialy "popular" and/or "democratic" republics) we had (after 1956) more cultural freedoms (Rock'N"Roll and pepsi ;)), farmlands in hands of pesants not state, small private buisneseses and craftmen and catholic church as alternative to comunist party. But the lack of noble class  is showing itself especialy in politics which lack the class and coherent direction. about blck/muslims The East Gemans propably still condier them as aliens the multiculturalism is very shalow concept here. Welcome Nora on our forum. :)     

UltraR, hi! I guess the Catholic Church, in spite of the many faults it may have, was able to give some focus to the people of Poland.

I am not quite sure whether I understand your term 'noble class' correctly. Do you mean a class that could potentially bring... well, "class" into politics? Style? Conservative values? That is certainly something we don't have in Germany either. And look what happened to Britain. Did the dismantling of the House of Lords help? Not a bit! They are the saddest, most dhimmified bunch in the whole of Europe.


A terrier makes you merrier!