Non-Kosher Animal Meat (For The Gentiles)

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.

As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.

Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.

Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.

I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.

I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.

Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.

Personally, FTF, for what it's worth, I forgive you. I would like to add, however, that it would be a good idea, when you have the opportunity in college to a take course, if available, about Talmud and read some of it and learn about it.  From what I have read so far, it is quite an amazing text made by human beings so wise and ahead of their time. The type of logic and arguements is astounding!!! I think there is no text out there created by human beings that can come even close to what is written in the Talmud. There are certain conclusions that people today make of what the Rabbis back then concluded that i might disagree with, but that's it..it doesn't make me right or wrong to simply disagree or have a different opinion...We are all mortal and are capable of making mistakes with our interpretations of books made by wise people..and books inspired by Gd's finger.  So, I do appreciate your apology and I, for one, forgive you.  But when you head to college, look for a course about Talmud and at least get a sample of what this amazing book says. I'm not telling you to become an expert in it or a rabbi or convert or anything. I just want you to see what it is.

The Kabbala on the other hand is meant to be a secret.  I personally will not go near it or draw any type of conclusion on it except for the fact that it is very very very deep and that I will leave it to the righteous experts to study it.  The Kabballa is not the way to go if one is devoid of Torah AND Talmud...You have to start with knowing Torah really well first...and then knowing Talmud really well second..than you need to be 40 years old, married, and with children and then you can learn Kabballa and know its true deep meaning.

Yea finding a Talmud Torah class in College.   , College and Torah rarly go hand in hand and of they did have a course in Judaism its allmost allways distorted and taught by some haskala moran. (except this one guy in Queens College- named professor Acker, who actually is and was a great teacher). Anyway in College as I know, one needs to know at least basic Hebrew to get into a class like that when its rarly available.  If one wants to know some of the wisdom of the Talmud, one either can go to a Yeshiva learn with some people who can translate or some online. Anyway the Talmud has soo much Divine wisdom, and even science and other things that people only discovered centuries later (and actually took credit for themselves).  
 Maybe I will post some of the Divine information that is written in the Talmud.
ex- The cure for rabbies was written in the Talmud, also Halies commet, also the exact # of stars in the Universe, electricity, and many more things.

[Dr. Dan]

I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.

As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.

Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.

Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.

I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.

I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.

Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.

Personally, FTF, for what it's worth, I forgive you. I would like to add, however, that it would be a good idea, when you have the opportunity in college to a take course, if available, about Talmud and read some of it and learn about it.  From what I have read so far, it is quite an amazing text made by human beings so wise and ahead of their time. The type of logic and arguements is astounding!!! I think there is no text out there created by human beings that can come even close to what is written in the Talmud. There are certain conclusions that people today make of what the Rabbis back then concluded that i might disagree with, but that's it..it doesn't make me right or wrong to simply disagree or have a different opinion...We are all mortal and are capable of making mistakes with our interpretations of books made by wise people..and books inspired by Gd's finger.  So, I do appreciate your apology and I, for one, forgive you.  But when you head to college, look for a course about Talmud and at least get a sample of what this amazing book says. I'm not telling you to become an expert in it or a rabbi or convert or anything. I just want you to see what it is.

The Kabbala on the other hand is meant to be a secret.  I personally will not go near it or draw any type of conclusion on it except for the fact that it is very very very deep and that I will leave it to the righteous experts to study it.  The Kabballa is not the way to go if one is devoid of Torah AND Talmud...You have to start with knowing Torah really well first...and then knowing Talmud really well second..than you need to be 40 years old, married, and with children and then you can learn Kabballa and know its true deep meaning.

Yea finding a Talmud Torah class in College.   , College and Torah rarly go hand in hand and of they did have a course in Judaism its allmost allways distorted and taught by some haskala moran. (except this one guy in Queens College- named professor Acker, who actually is and was a great teacher). Anyway in College as I know, one needs to know at least basic Hebrew to get into a class like that when its rarly available.  If one wants to know some of the wisdom of the Talmud, one either can go to a Yeshiva learn with some people who can translate or some online. Anyway the Talmud has soo much Divine wisdom, and even science and other things that people only discovered centuries later (and actually took credit for themselves).  
 Maybe I will post some of the Divine information that is written in the Talmud.
ex- The cure for rabbies was written in the Talmud, also Halies commet, also the exact # of stars in the Universe, electricity, and many more things.

Actually, I went to Drew University and in the relgious post grad program they had an intro course on Talmud. It was taught by a Christian attempting to be like the early Christians were really Jews, but believed Jesus was the Messiah...but nevertheless, for someone like me, who knew nothing nor ever read the Talmud, it was an excellent intro seminar course...and till this day I haven't forgotten it.  For me it was a good course and a course like that might be good for FTF.

[newman]

When will people wake up & smell the coffee regarding ftf?

1/ At the time of the allen-t fiasco he (ftf) openly stated his (supposed) 'right' to attempt to convert Jews. HE HAS NEVER RECANTED.

2/ He has repeatedly proselytised by stealth (demanding Jew AND gentile adhere to non-Torah, non-Jewish, NT priniples such as 'loving our enemies').

3/ His posts on this thread are just some of SEVERAL attempts he's made to undermine Jewish texts and beliefs.

This has been going on for months and months (as long as I've been here, anyway). He has repeatedly been warned and demoted but NOTHING has changed!

NOW HEAR THIS:

FTF IS A MISSIONARY! HE WILL NOT STOP TRYING TO UNDERMINE JEWISH BELIEFS. HE WILL NOT STOP TRYING TO CONVERT JEWS. HE'S LIKE A 'NERDY' TERMINATOR SENT TO MURDER JEWISH SOULS.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.

As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.

Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.

Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.

I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.

I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.

Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.

Personally, FTF, for what it's worth, I forgive you. I would like to add, however, that it would be a good idea, when you have the opportunity in college to a take course, if available, about Talmud and read some of it and learn about it.  From what I have read so far, it is quite an amazing text made by human beings so wise and ahead of their time. The type of logic and arguements is astounding!!! I think there is no text out there created by human beings that can come even close to what is written in the Talmud. There are certain conclusions that people today make of what the Rabbis back then concluded that i might disagree with, but that's it..it doesn't make me right or wrong to simply disagree or have a different opinion...We are all mortal and are capable of making mistakes with our interpretations of books made by wise people..and books inspired by Gd's finger.  So, I do appreciate your apology and I, for one, forgive you.  But when you head to college, look for a course about Talmud and at least get a sample of what this amazing book says. I'm not telling you to become an expert in it or a rabbi or convert or anything. I just want you to see what it is.

The Kabbala on the other hand is meant to be a secret.  I personally will not go near it or draw any type of conclusion on it except for the fact that it is very very very deep and that I will leave it to the righteous experts to study it.  The Kabballa is not the way to go if one is devoid of Torah AND Talmud...You have to start with knowing Torah really well first...and then knowing Talmud really well second..than you need to be 40 years old, married, and with children and then you can learn Kabballa and know its true deep meaning.

Yea finding a Talmud Torah class in College.   , College and Torah rarly go hand in hand and of they did have a course in Judaism its allmost allways distorted and taught by some haskala moran. (except this one guy in Queens College- named professor Acker, who actually is and was a great teacher). Anyway in College as I know, one needs to know at least basic Hebrew to get into a class like that when its rarly available.  If one wants to know some of the wisdom of the Talmud, one either can go to a Yeshiva learn with some people who can translate or some online. Anyway the Talmud has soo much Divine wisdom, and even science and other things that people only discovered centuries later (and actually took credit for themselves).  
 Maybe I will post some of the Divine information that is written in the Talmud.
ex- The cure for rabbies was written in the Talmud, also Halies commet, also the exact # of stars in the Universe, electricity, and many more things.

Actually, I went to Drew University and in the relgious post grad program they had an intro course on Talmud. It was taught by a Christian attempting to be like the early Christians were really Jews, but believed Jesus was the Messiah...but nevertheless, for someone like me, who knew nothing nor ever read the Talmud, it was an excellent intro seminar course...and till this day I haven't forgotten it.  For me it was a good course and a course like that might be good for FTF.

 Thats what I mean. You didn't really learn the sweatness of the Talmud. Learning the Talmud from a Christian wont and as I can see didn't bring you the real deepness and truth hidden in it. Their is soo much you will learn once you connect to the true Tzaddikim and teachers of Torah. A Jew that is connected would want to learn more and also acquire the Knowledge and Love/ Fear of G-d that is needed. I suggest(ed also) that you and every Jew learn Torah/ Talmud from the many great Rabbanim that teach it very well and would connect you to Judasim properly.
-learning it from anyone else, or as a history book, or in college for who knows how many hours, wont get the evil enclination opposing it, becuase that wont get you closer to G-d, but putting on a video for 2 hours, will have the yetzer hara telling you that you cant, or you dont have the time, you cant focus, and allllll the other excuses. But one has to be stronge and once one passes that obsticale one will taste the sweatness of the hidden light of the Torah.

[newman]

HE'S LIKE A 'NERDY' TERMINATOR SENT TO MURDER JEWISH SOULS.[/size][/color]

Newman, thank you for caring so much for Jewish souls! 
How great it is to know people like you!

Self-interest, My Dear.

We gentiles NEED religious, Torah-true Jews. They don't need us.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.

As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.

Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.

Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.

I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.

I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.

Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.

Personally, FTF, for what it's worth, I forgive you. I would like to add, however, that it would be a good idea, when you have the opportunity in college to a take course, if available, about Talmud and read some of it and learn about it.  From what I have read so far, it is quite an amazing text made by human beings so wise and ahead of their time. The type of logic and arguements is astounding!!! I think there is no text out there created by human beings that can come even close to what is written in the Talmud. There are certain conclusions that people today make of what the Rabbis back then concluded that i might disagree with, but that's it..it doesn't make me right or wrong to simply disagree or have a different opinion...We are all mortal and are capable of making mistakes with our interpretations of books made by wise people..and books inspired by Gd's finger.  So, I do appreciate your apology and I, for one, forgive you.  But when you head to college, look for a course about Talmud and at least get a sample of what this amazing book says. I'm not telling you to become an expert in it or a rabbi or convert or anything. I just want you to see what it is.

The Kabbala on the other hand is meant to be a secret.  I personally will not go near it or draw any type of conclusion on it except for the fact that it is very very very deep and that I will leave it to the righteous experts to study it.  The Kabballa is not the way to go if one is devoid of Torah AND Talmud...You have to start with knowing Torah really well first...and then knowing Talmud really well second..than you need to be 40 years old, married, and with children and then you can learn Kabballa and know its true deep meaning.

Yea finding a Talmud Torah class in College.   , College and Torah rarly go hand in hand and of they did have a course in Judaism its allmost allways distorted and taught by some haskala moran. (except this one guy in Queens College- named professor Acker, who actually is and was a great teacher). Anyway in College as I know, one needs to know at least basic Hebrew to get into a class like that when its rarly available.  If one wants to know some of the wisdom of the Talmud, one either can go to a Yeshiva learn with some people who can translate or some online. Anyway the Talmud has soo much Divine wisdom, and even science and other things that people only discovered centuries later (and actually took credit for themselves).  
 Maybe I will post some of the Divine information that is written in the Talmud.
ex- The cure for rabbies was written in the Talmud, also Halies commet, also the exact # of stars in the Universe, electricity, and many more things.

Actually, I went to Drew University and in the relgious post grad program they had an intro course on Talmud. It was taught by a Christian attempting to be like the early Christians were really Jews, but believed Jesus was the Messiah...but nevertheless, for someone like me, who knew nothing nor ever read the Talmud, it was an excellent intro seminar course...and till this day I haven't forgotten it.  For me it was a good course and a course like that might be good for FTF.

 Your a religious studies major?

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

to Dr. Dan

THE ARIZAL SAID THAT IN THE LATER GENERATIONS
IT IS A MITZVAH TO REVEAL THE
WISDOM OF THE ZOHAR
Thus it is Pnimiut HaTorah which is the Tree of Life, which is the revelation of
G-dliness, which leads to 'a perfect heart,' i.e., the love and fear [of G-d] which is
the essence of our occupation with the Torah and its mitzvos. For this reason, the
essence of Pnimiut HaTorah was revealed in these later generations. Thus Tanya,
Iggeres HaKodesh, Epistle 26, quotes the AriZal as stating that it is in these later
generations that it is permitted - and indeed, it is a mitzvah - to reveal this
wisdom. For in the earlier generations, this was not necessary. They were totally
righteous men [whose souls] stemmed from high [spiritual] rungs. Because of the
tremendous power of their souls, they possessed genuine love and fear [of G-d]
and studied the Torah lishmah. [To attain these levels] they did not require the
revelation of Pnimiut HaTorah. [Therefore these teachings were hidden, for] 'It is
the glory of G-d to conceal a matter. In [these] later generations, by contrast, the
souls do not stem from such high rungs, and [the spiritual potential of our] hearts
has diminished. Therefore, it is a mitzvah to reveal [this wisdom]. In each
successive generation, the revelation of Pnimiut HaTorah becomes even more
necessary so that [it becomes possible] to know G-d and [experience] love and
fear of Him Since the spiritual level of the souls have descended and they have
become more materially oriented, and there are a multitude of veils and
concealment, [were it not for the revelation of Pnimiut HaTorah, even those who
THE IMPORTANCE OF THE STUDY OF THE ZOHAR 9
cling to the Torah would not know G-d, and would not [experience] genuine love
and fear [of Him]. For love and fear are dependent on the knowledge and
comprehension of G-dliness. How is it possible to love something when you do
not know what it is?
RABBI SHALOM DOV BER MI LUBAVITCH ZTK’L
KUNTRES ETZ CHAYYIM

[Dr. Dan]

I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.

As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.

Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.

Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.

I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.

I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.

Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.

Personally, FTF, for what it's worth, I forgive you. I would like to add, however, that it would be a good idea, when you have the opportunity in college to a take course, if available, about Talmud and read some of it and learn about it.  From what I have read so far, it is quite an amazing text made by human beings so wise and ahead of their time. The type of logic and arguements is astounding!!! I think there is no text out there created by human beings that can come even close to what is written in the Talmud. There are certain conclusions that people today make of what the Rabbis back then concluded that i might disagree with, but that's it..it doesn't make me right or wrong to simply disagree or have a different opinion...We are all mortal and are capable of making mistakes with our interpretations of books made by wise people..and books inspired by Gd's finger.  So, I do appreciate your apology and I, for one, forgive you.  But when you head to college, look for a course about Talmud and at least get a sample of what this amazing book says. I'm not telling you to become an expert in it or a rabbi or convert or anything. I just want you to see what it is.

The Kabbala on the other hand is meant to be a secret.  I personally will not go near it or draw any type of conclusion on it except for the fact that it is very very very deep and that I will leave it to the righteous experts to study it.  The Kabballa is not the way to go if one is devoid of Torah AND Talmud...You have to start with knowing Torah really well first...and then knowing Talmud really well second..than you need to be 40 years old, married, and with children and then you can learn Kabballa and know its true deep meaning.

Yea finding a Talmud Torah class in College.   , College and Torah rarly go hand in hand and of they did have a course in Judaism its allmost allways distorted and taught by some haskala moran. (except this one guy in Queens College- named professor Acker, who actually is and was a great teacher). Anyway in College as I know, one needs to know at least basic Hebrew to get into a class like that when its rarly available.  If one wants to know some of the wisdom of the Talmud, one either can go to a Yeshiva learn with some people who can translate or some online. Anyway the Talmud has soo much Divine wisdom, and even science and other things that people only discovered centuries later (and actually took credit for themselves).  
 Maybe I will post some of the Divine information that is written in the Talmud.
ex- The cure for rabbies was written in the Talmud, also Halies commet, also the exact # of stars in the Universe, electricity, and many more things.

Actually, I went to Drew University and in the relgious post grad program they had an intro course on Talmud. It was taught by a Christian attempting to be like the early Christians were really Jews, but believed Jesus was the Messiah...but nevertheless, for someone like me, who knew nothing nor ever read the Talmud, it was an excellent intro seminar course...and till this day I haven't forgotten it.  For me it was a good course and a course like that might be good for FTF.

 Thats what I mean. You didn't really learn the sweatness of the Talmud. Learning the Talmud from a Christian wont and as I can see didn't bring you the real deepness and truth hidden in it. Their is soo much you will learn once you connect to the true Tzaddikim and teachers of Torah. A Jew that is connected would want to learn more and also acquire the Knowledge and Love/ Fear of G-d that is needed. I suggest(ed also) that you and every Jew learn Torah/ Talmud from the many great Rabbanim that teach it very well and would connect you to Judasim properly.
-learning it from anyone else, or as a history book, or in college for who knows how many hours, wont get the evil enclination opposing it, becuase that wont get you closer to G-d, but putting on a video for 2 hours, will have the yetzer hara telling you that you cant, or you dont have the time, you cant focus, and allllll the other excuses. But one has to be stronge and once one passes that obsticale one will taste the sweatness of the hidden light of the Torah.

i think you're wrong..I understood the sweetness of the Talmud from that class...do you hear me say that I hated it? I loved it and will not forget it!  You don't know what i went through, so stop being so judgemental!

[Dr. Dan]

I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.

As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.

Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.

Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.

I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.

I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.

Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.

Personally, FTF, for what it's worth, I forgive you. I would like to add, however, that it would be a good idea, when you have the opportunity in college to a take course, if available, about Talmud and read some of it and learn about it.  From what I have read so far, it is quite an amazing text made by human beings so wise and ahead of their time. The type of logic and arguements is astounding!!! I think there is no text out there created by human beings that can come even close to what is written in the Talmud. There are certain conclusions that people today make of what the Rabbis back then concluded that i might disagree with, but that's it..it doesn't make me right or wrong to simply disagree or have a different opinion...We are all mortal and are capable of making mistakes with our interpretations of books made by wise people..and books inspired by Gd's finger.  So, I do appreciate your apology and I, for one, forgive you.  But when you head to college, look for a course about Talmud and at least get a sample of what this amazing book says. I'm not telling you to become an expert in it or a rabbi or convert or anything. I just want you to see what it is.

The Kabbala on the other hand is meant to be a secret.  I personally will not go near it or draw any type of conclusion on it except for the fact that it is very very very deep and that I will leave it to the righteous experts to study it.  The Kabballa is not the way to go if one is devoid of Torah AND Talmud...You have to start with knowing Torah really well first...and then knowing Talmud really well second..than you need to be 40 years old, married, and with children and then you can learn Kabballa and know its true deep meaning.

Yea finding a Talmud Torah class in College.   , College and Torah rarly go hand in hand and of they did have a course in Judaism its allmost allways distorted and taught by some haskala moran. (except this one guy in Queens College- named professor Acker, who actually is and was a great teacher). Anyway in College as I know, one needs to know at least basic Hebrew to get into a class like that when its rarly available.  If one wants to know some of the wisdom of the Talmud, one either can go to a Yeshiva learn with some people who can translate or some online. Anyway the Talmud has soo much Divine wisdom, and even science and other things that people only discovered centuries later (and actually took credit for themselves).  
 Maybe I will post some of the Divine information that is written in the Talmud.
ex- The cure for rabbies was written in the Talmud, also Halies commet, also the exact # of stars in the Universe, electricity, and many more things.

Actually, I went to Drew University and in the relgious post grad program they had an intro course on Talmud. It was taught by a Christian attempting to be like the early Christians were really Jews, but believed Jesus was the Messiah...but nevertheless, for someone like me, who knew nothing nor ever read the Talmud, it was an excellent intro seminar course...and till this day I haven't forgotten it.  For me it was a good course and a course like that might be good for FTF.

 Your a religious studies major?

Was a psychobiology major..had to take this class to fullfill my requirements...good thing i accidently came across it..was very worthwhile for me.

Tzvi, you are hardcore..if it works for you then go for it..I'm not as hardcore as you and would prefer not to go for something unfamiliar in a very intense manner..or else I will hate it...so what i gained from that class was good for me in an introductory sense...for you, it wouldn't have..got it?

[Dr. Dan]

to Dr. Dan

THE ARIZAL SAID THAT IN THE LATER GENERATIONS
IT IS A MITZVAH TO REVEAL THE
WISDOM OF THE ZOHAR
Thus it is Pnimiut HaTorah which is the Tree of Life, which is the revelation of
G-dliness, which leads to 'a perfect heart,' i.e., the love and fear [of G-d] which is
the essence of our occupation with the Torah and its mitzvos. For this reason, the
essence of Pnimiut HaTorah was revealed in these later generations. Thus Tanya,
Iggeres HaKodesh, Epistle 26, quotes the AriZal as stating that it is in these later
generations that it is permitted - and indeed, it is a mitzvah - to reveal this
wisdom. For in the earlier generations, this was not necessary. They were totally
righteous men [whose souls] stemmed from high [spiritual] rungs. Because of the
tremendous power of their souls, they possessed genuine love and fear [of G-d]
and studied the Torah lishmah. [To attain these levels] they did not require the
revelation of Pnimiut HaTorah. [Therefore these teachings were hidden, for] 'It is
the glory of G-d to conceal a matter. In [these] later generations, by contrast, the
souls do not stem from such high rungs, and [the spiritual potential of our] hearts
has diminished. Therefore, it is a mitzvah to reveal [this wisdom]. In each
successive generation, the revelation of Pnimiut HaTorah becomes even more
necessary so that [it becomes possible] to know G-d and [experience] love and
fear of Him Since the spiritual level of the souls have descended and they have
become more materially oriented, and there are a multitude of veils and
concealment, [were it not for the revelation of Pnimiut HaTorah, even those who
THE IMPORTANCE OF THE STUDY OF THE ZOHAR 9
cling to the Torah would not know G-d, and would not [experience] genuine love
and fear [of Him]. For love and fear are dependent on the knowledge and
comprehension of G-dliness. How is it possible to love something when you do
not know what it is?
RABBI SHALOM DOV BER MI LUBAVITCH ZTK’L
KUNTRES ETZ CHAYYIM

see what I mean? This is too intense for me..i got lost in the first five words of this paragraph.. good for you? yes..not for me..

[Nic Brookes]

I agree that he should be banned. I'm so glad that at least he's not a moderator anymore.

Banning ftf would be a DISASTER for JTF. He represents a significant number of Christians who are not fully aware of lots of things relating to Judaism. Instead of banning him, he should be shown that he is wrong. If this can be done, all Christians like him (of which there are MANY, at least in the UK) could then (in the long term) sympathise to JTF.

Also he was a fantastic moderator, like it or not, his series on "What does Islam say about..." was one of the best things on this website.

[cjd]

But aren't chicken skins and fat used to make the broth for soup?   Hey you guys are Jewish, where the concept came from,,,,the oldest remedy for a cold is Chicken Soup

My family has a recipe to cook pieces of chicken with certain vegetables in water and then remove them after it is done cooking and the water turns into the soup so it is soaking the whole meat.

I was taught to cook the chicken soup with the chicken parts and then remove the meat and allow the soup to cool. The fat and grease will jell at the top of the pot and then can be removed. Then you can spice the soup wit some dill and other spice to taste while reheating it. If  the broth is use for Matzoh Ball soup the soup will not be as greasy. If you want to make regular soup and you like some meat in it you can also put some of the meat back in and the soup and it will not have the high grease and fat content.

[Dr. Dan]

I agree that he should be banned. I'm so glad that at least he's not a moderator anymore.

Banning ftf would be a DISASTER for JTF. He represents a significant number of Christians who are not fully aware of lots of things relating to Judaism. Instead of banning him, he should be shown that he is wrong. If this can be done, all Christians like him (of which there are MANY, at least in the UK) could then (in the long term) sympathise to JTF.

Also he was a fantastic moderator, like it or not, his series on "What does Islam say about..." was one of the best things on this website.

To have mercy means to be human..

I agree with you CJD.

I think a lot of people here on this forum lack mercy...For Gd's sake! this is ONLY a forum..nobody murdered anyone here, Gd forbid!!

[newman]

I agree that he should be banned. I'm so glad that at least he's not a moderator anymore.

Banning ftf would be a DISASTER for JTF. He represents a significant number of Christians who are not fully aware of lots of things relating to Judaism. Instead of banning him, he should be shown that he is wrong. If this can be done, all Christians like him (of which there are MANY, at least in the UK) could then (in the long term) sympathise to JTF.

Also he was a fantastic moderator, like it or not, his series on "What does Islam say about..." was one of the best things on this website.

Nic,

Ftf is not merely making innocent oversights out of ignorance. What he's doing is deliberate and calculated.

1/ At the time of the allen-t fiasco he (ftf) openly stated his (supposed) 'right' to attempt to convert Jews. HE HAS NEVER RECANTED.

2/ He has repeatedly proselytised by stealth (demanding Jew AND gentile adhere to non-Torah, non-Jewish, NT priniples such as 'loving our enemies').

3/ His posts on this thread are just some of SEVERAL attempts he's made to undermine Jewish texts and beliefs.

This has been going on for months and months (as long as I've been here, anyway). He has repeatedly been warned and demoted but NOTHING has changed!

[Nic Brookes]

I agree that he should be banned. I'm so glad that at least he's not a moderator anymore.

Banning ftf would be a DISASTER for JTF. He represents a significant number of Christians who are not fully aware of lots of things relating to Judaism. Instead of banning him, he should be shown that he is wrong. If this can be done, all Christians like him (of which there are MANY, at least in the UK) could then (in the long term) sympathise to JTF.

Also he was a fantastic moderator, like it or not, his series on "What does Islam say about..." was one of the best things on this website.

Nic,

Ftf is not merely making innocent oversights out of ignorance. What he's doing is deliberate and calculated.

1/ At the time of the allen-t fiasco he (ftf) openly stated his (supposed) 'right' to attempt to convert Jews. HE HAS NEVER RECANTED.

2/ He has repeatedly proselytised by stealth (demanding Jew AND gentile adhere to non-Torah, non-Jewish, NT priniples such as 'loving our enemies').

3/ His posts on this thread are just some of SEVERAL attempts he's made to undermine Jewish texts and beliefs.

This has been going on for months and months (as long as I've been here, anyway). He has repeatedly been warned and demoted but NOTHING has changed!

Well he's gone anyway, it's not worth talking about here.

Back to non kosher food, who's up for some beef in cream sauce? :p

[cjd]

I agree that he should be banned. I'm so glad that at least he's not a moderator anymore.

Banning ftf would be a DISASTER for JTF. He represents a significant number of Christians who are not fully aware of lots of things relating to Judaism. Instead of banning him, he should be shown that he is wrong. If this can be done, all Christians like him (of which there are MANY, at least in the UK) could then (in the long term) sympathise to JTF.

Also he was a fantastic moderator, like it or not, his series on "What does Islam say about..." was one of the best things on this website.

Nic,

Ftf is not merely making innocent oversights out of ignorance. What he's doing is deliberate and calculated.

1/ At the time of the allen-t fiasco he (ftf) openly stated his (supposed) 'right' to attempt to convert Jews. HE HAS NEVER RECANTED.

2/ He has repeatedly proselytised by stealth (demanding Jew AND gentile adhere to non-Torah, non-Jewish, NT priniples such as 'loving our enemies').

3/ His posts on this thread are just some of SEVERAL attempts he's made to undermine Jewish texts and beliefs.

This has been going on for months and months (as long as I've been here, anyway). He has repeatedly been warned and demoted but NOTHING has changed!

Well he's gone anyway, it's not worth talking about here.

Back to non kosher food, who's up for some beef in cream sauce? :p

Cows should quake on their hooves when I approach since I must have eaten an entire heard of them on my own but beef in cream sauce thats not only non kosher its disgusting 

[Nic Brookes]

I disagree, beef in a cream, white wine and black peppercorn sauce is TASTY!

[Dr. Dan]

in 1994 I ate a chilli cheese burrito from Taco Hell.  Even though it wasn't kosher it was delicious...and guess what happened to me? Got really really bad diarrhea...

Just comes to show...

[Dr. Dan]

I like bacon cheeseburgers, from Whataburger. Chili dogs piled high with both chili and cheese and accompanied by fritos piled high with same are delicious.

ugh!

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I had agreed not to make any more posts until this issue was resolved, however, considering what has been posted here, I have requested and been granted permission to defend myself.

As my ancestry has been brought up, allow me to clarify, my mother's mother fled Germany to escape the holocaust, she was not a practising Jew, but she had Jewish blood, her mother, died in the gas chambers, she also was not a practising Jew, but had Jewish blood, I do not know anything about her parents though, so I cannot go any further back.

Also to clarify, I believe that Israel belongs to the Jews, and as a Christian I believe that I should think of Jews as close family members (this comes from the NT), and therefore as they are close family members, I should help them hold onto and protect their land.

Now, regarding what I said of the Talmud, all I said is that I have a negative opinion of it, I said this as it came up in the topic, I did not intend this as any kind of attack, this opinion could well be misplaced, if someone would like to prove that it is, I ask that they provide a link to what is in their opinion a reliable English translation of it, I do not ask for any arguments about it, just link me to a copy you would call accurate, and let me see if my opinion is misplaced, if it is, I will apologise for having stated that I have a negative opinion of it.

I would like to add that I am sorry if anything I have said on this issue has been personally insulting to anyone, I have not intended to be so, and if I have been I am truly sorry.

I would also like to add, that I consider the way that many members of this forum have spoken of me regarding this unacceptable, and considering the other things I could be putting the time to that I put to posting here, I will be leaving this forum if certain people do not apologise to me.

Unless this issue is cleared up in a positive manner, this will be my final post in this forum.

Personally, FTF, for what it's worth, I forgive you. I would like to add, however, that it would be a good idea, when you have the opportunity in college to a take course, if available, about Talmud and read some of it and learn about it.  From what I have read so far, it is quite an amazing text made by human beings so wise and ahead of their time. The type of logic and arguements is astounding!!! I think there is no text out there created by human beings that can come even close to what is written in the Talmud. There are certain conclusions that people today make of what the Rabbis back then concluded that i might disagree with, but that's it..it doesn't make me right or wrong to simply disagree or have a different opinion...We are all mortal and are capable of making mistakes with our interpretations of books made by wise people..and books inspired by Gd's finger.  So, I do appreciate your apology and I, for one, forgive you.  But when you head to college, look for a course about Talmud and at least get a sample of what this amazing book says. I'm not telling you to become an expert in it or a rabbi or convert or anything. I just want you to see what it is.

The Kabbala on the other hand is meant to be a secret.  I personally will not go near it or draw any type of conclusion on it except for the fact that it is very very very deep and that I will leave it to the righteous experts to study it.  The Kabballa is not the way to go if one is devoid of Torah AND Talmud...You have to start with knowing Torah really well first...and then knowing Talmud really well second..than you need to be 40 years old, married, and with children and then you can learn Kabballa and know its true deep meaning.

Yea finding a Talmud Torah class in College.   , College and Torah rarly go hand in hand and of they did have a course in Judaism its allmost allways distorted and taught by some haskala moran. (except this one guy in Queens College- named professor Acker, who actually is and was a great teacher). Anyway in College as I know, one needs to know at least basic Hebrew to get into a class like that when its rarly available.  If one wants to know some of the wisdom of the Talmud, one either can go to a Yeshiva learn with some people who can translate or some online. Anyway the Talmud has soo much Divine wisdom, and even science and other things that people only discovered centuries later (and actually took credit for themselves).  
 Maybe I will post some of the Divine information that is written in the Talmud.
ex- The cure for rabbies was written in the Talmud, also Halies commet, also the exact # of stars in the Universe, electricity, and many more things.

Actually, I went to Drew University and in the relgious post grad program they had an intro course on Talmud. It was taught by a Christian attempting to be like the early Christians were really Jews, but believed Jesus was the Messiah...but nevertheless, for someone like me, who knew nothing nor ever read the Talmud, it was an excellent intro seminar course...and till this day I haven't forgotten it.  For me it was a good course and a course like that might be good for FTF.

 Thats what I mean. You didn't really learn the sweatness of the Talmud. Learning the Talmud from a Christian wont and as I can see didn't bring you the real deepness and truth hidden in it. Their is soo much you will learn once you connect to the true Tzaddikim and teachers of Torah. A Jew that is connected would want to learn more and also acquire the Knowledge and Love/ Fear of G-d that is needed. I suggest(ed also) that you and every Jew learn Torah/ Talmud from the many great Rabbanim that teach it very well and would connect you to Judasim properly.
-learning it from anyone else, or as a history book, or in college for who knows how many hours, wont get the evil enclination opposing it, becuase that wont get you closer to G-d, but putting on a video for 2 hours, will have the yetzer hara telling you that you cant, or you dont have the time, you cant focus, and allllll the other excuses. But one has to be stronge and once one passes that obsticale one will taste the sweatness of the hidden light of the Torah.

i think you're wrong..I understood the sweetness of the Talmud from that class...do you hear me say that I hated it? I loved it and will not forget it!  You don't know what i went through, so stop being so judgemental!

Relax, why do some people allways feel that they are being judged by others  . I didnt say you hated it, but was just suggesting for you (and others) to learn a little more then taking a class with a christian in college. No one is asking you to be "hardcore" and im sure im not in that category either. Will maybe spending an hour or 2 listining to a lecture be sooo hard and impossible to accomplish?

[JTFFan]

I like bacon cheeseburgers, from Whataburger. Chili dogs piled high with both chili and cheese and accompanied by fritos piled high with same are delicious.

quite healthy 

[newman]

Treif (non-kosher) food is gooooood!

Beef Stroganoff (cream), Tandoori Chicken (yogurt), King Prawns (big, Aussie shrimp) and mud crabs...............YUMMMMMM!

.................And I'd drive a truck through a muSSlim kindergarten for a feed of oysters Kilpatrick.

[Kiwi]

in 1994 I ate a chilli cheese burrito from Taco Hell.  Even though it wasn't kosher it was delicious...and guess what happened to me? Got really really bad diarrhea...

Just comes to show...

 

[Kiwi]

I like bacon cheeseburgers, from Whataburger. Chili dogs piled high with both chili and cheese and accompanied by fritos piled high with same are delicious.

I hope you didn't eat that all at once. 

[JTFFan]

I like bacon cheeseburgers, from Whataburger. Chili dogs piled high with both chili and cheese and accompanied by fritos piled high with same are delicious.

I hope you didn't eat that all at once.