Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
ultra-Orthodox Jews against Isarel. What does Chaim say?
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on January 09, 2008, 10:54:07 PM ---Then he would have said "and they brought 50 years of righteous leadership of Israel" or something like that, not 200 years since that includes the wicked kingdoms.
--- End quote ---
Right, it even includes Herod and Agrippas who were not halakhically Jewish and calls them Malkhuth Yisrael.
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on January 09, 2008, 11:00:16 PM ---great conversation!! i'M enjoying this!
--- End quote ---
Glad to hear it.
MassuhDGoodName:
There are indeed solid grounds for those Orthodox practitioners who believe that we are to await the Moshiach's Reign, at which time he is to redeem us and rebuild the 3rd Temple in Jerusalem.
Rabbi Kahane himself, when asked publicly to comment on these various groups of Jews who disavow Zionism, replied "I certainly can not find fault with their Torah."
The fact that the Labor Zionists won out in governing the State of Israel, and their outlook was entirely secular to the point of actually being atheistic, has added fuel to the arguments of the "rejectionists"; for the State is not actually a "Jewish" State...it is rather "A State full of Jews".
Rather than spend endless hours debating the nuances of Torah pro and con, I will simply state my personal opinion:
I prefer the State of Israel to be a modern state based on Torah and Jewish history. In spite of its obvious shortcomings, I believe that because the Land has again returned to Jewish ownership as we had hoped and prayed for 2000 years, there no longer can be those who reject returning to it. The reborn Land of Israel is obviously a Divine Miracle, and we have no choice but to accept it. It should be noted that there were those in Pharoah's Egypt who opted not to follow Moses, and I'm sure they must have felt their reasons for staying behind were good ones. It's up to us to remake the State as best we can. Moshiach will clean up the unfinished business when he arrives. It is not reasonable to expect a 60 year old country which has fought five wars since its rebirth to have had the luxury of normal development. "What you sees, is what you gets".
judeanoncapta:
Chaim, now that your'e on the forum, please tell us what you think of Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews.
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on January 10, 2008, 12:42:41 AM ---Chaim, now that your'e on the forum, please tell us what you think of Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews.
--- End quote ---
you may want to post a new thread asking him... or change the title of this thread
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