Adam, the first man on Earth.

[Sarah]

Does the Torah not support the idea of cave men?

Would humanity have then started with a fair amount of knowledge granted to Adam and not from bare scratch?

..........whats the Jewish version of him?

[jdl4ever]

The Torah may talk about cave men according to my opinion.  It says in Genesis 4:2 "the sons of G-d saw the daughters of Adam/man that they were good and they took for themsleves wives from whoever they wanted".  And in the next verse the Torah says that the Giants were the products of such a union. So the Torah gives 2 names for the people living at the time of Adam "sons of G-d" and "daughters of man/Adam" and their mixed offspring had unique characteristics in that they were "Giants".  The Hebrew word "Adam" means the name "Adam" and also can " man" so I use the slash "Adam/man".  This implies that one of these groups of people were decendants of Adam and the other were not his decendants so they were probably neanderthals existing before Adam.  This is also supported by Genesis Chapter One where it says that G-d created men and women on the sixth day, blessed them and told them to rule over the Earth etc. but it is not until Chapter Two that G-d creates Adam.  The Medrish opinion on the above verse is that people married angels but my opinion sounds better I think given the scientific support.

Adam was a unique creation that G-d made.  He was much smarter than the Neanderthals since he had the gift of language and creativity.  He also had the first soul as the Neanderthals didn't have souls but were like animals. 

[Lubab]

I think it completely goes against the simple reading of the Torah to say that there were men created before Adam.
I don't beleive Judaism subsribes to the notion of cavemen at all. I'd be willing to consider otherwise if someone can product any legitimate Rabbinic commentary that says otherwise.

Just because there are skeletons of what appear to be cavement by no means proves that they lived or walked the earth. The Rabbis teach that G-d did many things in the creation of the world to test our faith in Him. One of those things was likely the bones of cavemen and dinosours. But G-d could have just as easily created the ground with those items in them. This is no more far fetched than the belief that G-d created the ground itself.

[newman]

I think it completely goes against the simple reading of the Torah to say that there were men created before Adam.
I don't beleive Judaism subsribes to the notion of cavemen at all. I'd be willing to consider otherwise if someone can product any legitimate Rabbinic commentary that says otherwise.

Just because there are skeletons of what appear to be cavement by no means proves that they lived or walked the earth. The Rabbis teach that G-d did many things in the creation of the world to test our faith in Him. One of those things was likely the bones of cavemen and dinosours. But G-d could have just as easily created the ground with those items in them. This is no more far fetched than the belief that G-d created the ground itself.

Modern DNA testing has shed some light on the question.

They've discovered a 'brain growth' gene that only goes back 6,000 years. All humanoid remains older than 6,000 years don't have it.

Scientists speculate that this brain growth gene is what enabled modern man to grasp abstract concepts (like G-d) and invent things etc.

This backs up the Biblical idea of G-d creating man (modern man with free will) 6,000 years ago.

A humanoid cave man without free will and the ability to grasp good/evil would not be human in the Biblical sense.

[Dr. Dan]

Does the Torah not support the idea of cave men?

Would humanity have then started with a fair amount of knowledge granted to Adam and not from bare scratch?

..........whats the Jewish version of him?

Some interpretations simply say that Adam was the first person on earth and that out of his rib,literally begot Eve..and then when they had kids they ended up with being with some females, but really there are a lot of speculations of who they ended up with...and if it wasn't their mother, there must have been women from somewhere out of eden...perhaps those women were those cavemen...

[Dr. Dan]

The Torah may talk about cave men according to my opinion.  It says in Genesis 4:2 "the sons of G-d saw the daughters of Adam/man that they were good and they took for themsleves wives from whoever they wanted".  And in the next verse the Torah says that the Giants were the products of such a union. So the Torah gives 2 names for the people living at the time of Adam "sons of G-d" and "daughters of man/Adam" and their mixed offspring had unique characteristics in that they were "Giants".  The Hebrew word "Adam" means the name "Adam" and also can " man" so I use the slash "Adam/man".  This implies that one of these groups of people were decendants of Adam and the other were not his decendants so they were probably neanderthals existing before Adam.  This is also supported by Genesis Chapter One where it says that G-d created men and women on the sixth day, blessed them and told them to rule over the Earth etc. but it is not until Chapter Two that G-d creates Adam.  The Medrish opinion on the above verse is that people married angels but my opinion sounds better I think given the scientific support.

Adam was a unique creation that G-d made.  He was much smarter than the Neanderthals since he had the gift of language and creativity.  He also had the first soul as the Neanderthals didn't have souls but were like animals. 

I like this interpretation.

[Dr. Dan]

I think it completely goes against the simple reading of the Torah to say that there were men created before Adam.
I don't beleive Judaism subsribes to the notion of cavemen at all. I'd be willing to consider otherwise if someone can product any legitimate Rabbinic commentary that says otherwise.

Just because there are skeletons of what appear to be cavement by no means proves that they lived or walked the earth. The Rabbis teach that G-d did many things in the creation of the world to test our faith in Him. One of those things was likely the bones of cavemen and dinosours. But G-d could have just as easily created the ground with those items in them. This is no more far fetched than the belief that G-d created the ground itself.

I disagree with this speculation...however, I won't go there with a 60 foot pole, Lubab...I think that believing that cavemen and evolution and dinosaurs doesn't go against Gd and the Torah...if anything, it proves His majesty even more in addition to the Torah.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

The Torah may talk about cave men according to my opinion.  It says in Genesis 4:2 "the sons of G-d saw the daughters of Adam/man that they were good and they took for themsleves wives from whoever they wanted".  And in the next verse the Torah says that the Giants were the products of such a union. So the Torah gives 2 names for the people living at the time of Adam "sons of G-d" and "daughters of man/Adam" and their mixed offspring had unique characteristics in that they were "Giants".  The Hebrew word "Adam" means the name "Adam" and also can " man" so I use the slash "Adam/man".  This implies that one of these groups of people were decendants of Adam and the other were not his decendants so they were probably neanderthals existing before Adam.  This is also supported by Genesis Chapter One where it says that G-d created men and women on the sixth day, blessed them and told them to rule over the Earth etc. but it is not until Chapter Two that G-d creates Adam.  The Medrish opinion on the above verse is that people married angels but my opinion sounds better I think given the scientific support.

Adam was a unique creation that G-d made.  He was much smarter than the Neanderthals since he had the gift of language and creativity.  He also had the first soul as the Neanderthals didn't have souls but were like animals. 

That's what I believe but I didn't know the part about Genesis 4. I do know that Barry Chamish said that the giants were the children of men and aliens, which he uses to support his belief in UFO's. The Kabbalah also speaks of people from other Worlds but they are like angels and don't have free will.

See this thread for an archived in depth discussion on this topic: http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=1316.0.

 And Chamish is credible becuase   . I keep telling you that he is nuts and is a rasha, you should stop listining or even thinking about him.
 
 Anyway I dont like this whole notion of integrating science with Judasim, and redifining Judasim according to so called science. Were their worlds before this one, and are their studies that deal with these things (where some know, parts at least about it?), yes. But all this ufo garbage, and expecially people like chamish or any other rasha who is trying to sell a book or t.v. show should be completly ignored.
 Adam was created straight from G-d, he actually wasn't like a norman human being both physically (he was made of material like our nails) and mentally - he in his comprehension could "see" the whole world. Also his wife was made from his rib, and his children married eachother - each male had a twin female, and this was one of the arguments and cause of conflick between Chain and Hevel (becuase the younger was born with 2 twins while the older had one, and he believed he was intitled to 2 since he was the older (it is one of the reasons of conflict).

[Dr. Dan]

The Torah may talk about cave men according to my opinion.  It says in Genesis 4:2 "the sons of G-d saw the daughters of Adam/man that they were good and they took for themsleves wives from whoever they wanted".  And in the next verse the Torah says that the Giants were the products of such a union. So the Torah gives 2 names for the people living at the time of Adam "sons of G-d" and "daughters of man/Adam" and their mixed offspring had unique characteristics in that they were "Giants".  The Hebrew word "Adam" means the name "Adam" and also can " man" so I use the slash "Adam/man".  This implies that one of these groups of people were decendants of Adam and the other were not his decendants so they were probably neanderthals existing before Adam.  This is also supported by Genesis Chapter One where it says that G-d created men and women on the sixth day, blessed them and told them to rule over the Earth etc. but it is not until Chapter Two that G-d creates Adam.  The Medrish opinion on the above verse is that people married angels but my opinion sounds better I think given the scientific support.

Adam was a unique creation that G-d made.  He was much smarter than the Neanderthals since he had the gift of language and creativity.  He also had the first soul as the Neanderthals didn't have souls but were like animals. 

That's what I believe but I didn't know the part about Genesis 4. I do know that Barry Chamish said that the giants were the children of men and aliens, which he uses to support his belief in UFO's. The Kabbalah also speaks of people from other Worlds but they are like angels and don't have free will.

See this thread for an archived in depth discussion on this topic: http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=1316.0.

 And Chamish is credible becuase   . I keep telling you that he is nuts and is a rasha, you should stop listining or even thinking about him.
 
 Anyway I dont like this whole notion of integrating science with Judasim, and redifining Judasim according to so called science. Were their worlds before this one, and are their studies that deal with these things (where some know, parts at least about it?), yes. But all this ufo garbage, and expecially people like chamish or any other rasha who is trying to sell a book or t.v. show should be completly ignored.
 Adam was created straight from G-d, he actually wasn't like a norman human being both physically (he was made of material like our nails) and mentally - he in his comprehension could "see" the whole world. Also his wife was made from his rib, and his children married eachother - each male had a twin female, and this was one of the arguments and cause of conflick between Chain and Hevel (becuase the younger was born with 2 twins while the older had one, and he believed he was intitled to 2 since he was the older (it is one of the reasons of conflict).

I dont' think any of that science is so called...but whatever floats your bubble...

Open mindedness is key to becoming wiser...

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

The Torah may talk about cave men according to my opinion.  It says in Genesis 4:2 "the sons of G-d saw the daughters of Adam/man that they were good and they took for themsleves wives from whoever they wanted".  And in the next verse the Torah says that the Giants were the products of such a union. So the Torah gives 2 names for the people living at the time of Adam "sons of G-d" and "daughters of man/Adam" and their mixed offspring had unique characteristics in that they were "Giants".  The Hebrew word "Adam" means the name "Adam" and also can " man" so I use the slash "Adam/man".  This implies that one of these groups of people were decendants of Adam and the other were not his decendants so they were probably neanderthals existing before Adam.  This is also supported by Genesis Chapter One where it says that G-d created men and women on the sixth day, blessed them and told them to rule over the Earth etc. but it is not until Chapter Two that G-d creates Adam.  The Medrish opinion on the above verse is that people married angels but my opinion sounds better I think given the scientific support.

Adam was a unique creation that G-d made.  He was much smarter than the Neanderthals since he had the gift of language and creativity.  He also had the first soul as the Neanderthals didn't have souls but were like animals. 

That's what I believe but I didn't know the part about Genesis 4. I do know that Barry Chamish said that the giants were the children of men and aliens, which he uses to support his belief in UFO's. The Kabbalah also speaks of people from other Worlds but they are like angels and don't have free will.

See this thread for an archived in depth discussion on this topic: http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=1316.0.

 And Chamish is credible becuase   . I keep telling you that he is nuts and is a rasha, you should stop listining or even thinking about him.
 
 Anyway I dont like this whole notion of integrating science with Judasim, and redifining Judasim according to so called science. Were their worlds before this one, and are their studies that deal with these things (where some know, parts at least about it?), yes. But all this ufo garbage, and expecially people like chamish or any other rasha who is trying to sell a book or t.v. show should be completly ignored.
 Adam was created straight from G-d, he actually wasn't like a norman human being both physically (he was made of material like our nails) and mentally - he in his comprehension could "see" the whole world. Also his wife was made from his rib, and his children married eachother - each male had a twin female, and this was one of the arguments and cause of conflick between Chain and Hevel (becuase the younger was born with 2 twins while the older had one, and he believed he was intitled to 2 since he was the older (it is one of the reasons of conflict).

I dont' think any of that science is so called...but whatever floats your bubble...

Open mindedness is key to becoming wiser...

It isn't valid because in one book, the theories say 4 billion years and another 16 billion. They also come up with different theories of which they are sure is correct, untile someone else says no their way is correct, so who should we follow.

[jdl4ever]

Tzvi, if the world was only 6,000 years old we would not be able to see the stars since they are millions of light years away meaning it would take millions of years for the light from the stars to reach us so that we can see them.  Carbon dating has been done on bones discovered and many date back much further back than 6,000 years as well.  The "Days" of the Torah are not man days but G-d's days since the count starts before the sun was created.

[Dr. Dan]

The Torah may talk about cave men according to my opinion.  It says in Genesis 4:2 "the sons of G-d saw the daughters of Adam/man that they were good and they took for themsleves wives from whoever they wanted".  And in the next verse the Torah says that the Giants were the products of such a union. So the Torah gives 2 names for the people living at the time of Adam "sons of G-d" and "daughters of man/Adam" and their mixed offspring had unique characteristics in that they were "Giants".  The Hebrew word "Adam" means the name "Adam" and also can " man" so I use the slash "Adam/man".  This implies that one of these groups of people were decendants of Adam and the other were not his decendants so they were probably neanderthals existing before Adam.  This is also supported by Genesis Chapter One where it says that G-d created men and women on the sixth day, blessed them and told them to rule over the Earth etc. but it is not until Chapter Two that G-d creates Adam.  The Medrish opinion on the above verse is that people married angels but my opinion sounds better I think given the scientific support.

Adam was a unique creation that G-d made.  He was much smarter than the Neanderthals since he had the gift of language and creativity.  He also had the first soul as the Neanderthals didn't have souls but were like animals. 

That's what I believe but I didn't know the part about Genesis 4. I do know that Barry Chamish said that the giants were the children of men and aliens, which he uses to support his belief in UFO's. The Kabbalah also speaks of people from other Worlds but they are like angels and don't have free will.

See this thread for an archived in depth discussion on this topic: http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=1316.0.

 And Chamish is credible becuase   . I keep telling you that he is nuts and is a rasha, you should stop listining or even thinking about him.
 
 Anyway I dont like this whole notion of integrating science with Judasim, and redifining Judasim according to so called science. Were their worlds before this one, and are their studies that deal with these things (where some know, parts at least about it?), yes. But all this ufo garbage, and expecially people like chamish or any other rasha who is trying to sell a book or t.v. show should be completly ignored.
 Adam was created straight from G-d, he actually wasn't like a norman human being both physically (he was made of material like our nails) and mentally - he in his comprehension could "see" the whole world. Also his wife was made from his rib, and his children married eachother - each male had a twin female, and this was one of the arguments and cause of conflick between Chain and Hevel (becuase the younger was born with 2 twins while the older had one, and he believed he was intitled to 2 since he was the older (it is one of the reasons of conflict).

I dont' think any of that science is so called...but whatever floats your bubble...

Open mindedness is key to becoming wiser...

It isn't valid because in one book, the theories say 4 billion years and another 16 billion. They also come up with different theories of which they are sure is correct, untile someone else says no their way is correct, so who should we follow.

We follow everyone with a grain of salt...Just like inventions...none are ever the best because they keep improving themselves.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Tzvi, if the world was only 6,000 years old we would not be able to see the stars since they are millions of light years away meaning it would take millions of years for the light from the stars to reach us so that we can see them.  Carbon dating has been done on bones discovered and many date back much further back than 6,000 years as well.  The "Days" of the Torah are not man days but G-d's days since the count starts before the sun was created.

Not that I am taking a definite statement of time, etc, but why would us seeing stars be an obsticle for G-d to do? Anyway G-d is above time, etc.  Either way I think that this subject is sensitive, and shouldn't be speculated by our opinions, (as if we know everything), maybe some of the more knowledgable (in Torah) might begin explain some things, and if someone gets let them feel free to post.

[Dr. Dan]

Tzvi, if the world was only 6,000 years old we would not be able to see the stars since they are millions of light years away meaning it would take millions of years for the light from the stars to reach us so that we can see them.  Carbon dating has been done on bones discovered and many date back much further back than 6,000 years as well.  The "Days" of the Torah are not man days but G-d's days since the count starts before the sun was created.

Not that I am taking a definite statement of time, etc, but why would us seeing stars be an obsticle for G-d to do? Anyway G-d is above time, etc.  Either way I think that this subject is sensitive, and shouldn't be speculated by our opinions, (as if we know everything), maybe some of the more knowledgable (in Torah) might begin explain some things, and if someone gets let them feel free to post.

bottom line is that Gd exists..and we shoudl do our part to be good people in this world.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

The Torah may talk about cave men according to my opinion.  It says in Genesis 4:2 "the sons of G-d saw the daughters of Adam/man that they were good and they took for themsleves wives from whoever they wanted".  And in the next verse the Torah says that the Giants were the products of such a union. So the Torah gives 2 names for the people living at the time of Adam "sons of G-d" and "daughters of man/Adam" and their mixed offspring had unique characteristics in that they were "Giants".  The Hebrew word "Adam" means the name "Adam" and also can " man" so I use the slash "Adam/man".  This implies that one of these groups of people were decendants of Adam and the other were not his decendants so they were probably neanderthals existing before Adam.  This is also supported by Genesis Chapter One where it says that G-d created men and women on the sixth day, blessed them and told them to rule over the Earth etc. but it is not until Chapter Two that G-d creates Adam.  The Medrish opinion on the above verse is that people married angels but my opinion sounds better I think given the scientific support.

Adam was a unique creation that G-d made.  He was much smarter than the Neanderthals since he had the gift of language and creativity.  He also had the first soul as the Neanderthals didn't have souls but were like animals. 

That's what I believe but I didn't know the part about Genesis 4. I do know that Barry Chamish said that the giants were the children of men and aliens, which he uses to support his belief in UFO's. The Kabbalah also speaks of people from other Worlds but they are like angels and don't have free will.

See this thread for an archived in depth discussion on this topic: http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=1316.0.

 And Chamish is credible becuase   . I keep telling you that he is nuts and is a rasha, you should stop listining or even thinking about him.
 
 Anyway I dont like this whole notion of integrating science with Judasim, and redifining Judasim according to so called science. Were their worlds before this one, and are their studies that deal with these things (where some know, parts at least about it?), yes. But all this ufo garbage, and expecially people like chamish or any other rasha who is trying to sell a book or t.v. show should be completly ignored.
 Adam was created straight from G-d, he actually wasn't like a norman human being both physically (he was made of material like our nails) and mentally - he in his comprehension could "see" the whole world. Also his wife was made from his rib, and his children married eachother - each male had a twin female, and this was one of the arguments and cause of conflick between Chain and Hevel (becuase the younger was born with 2 twins while the older had one, and he believed he was intitled to 2 since he was the older (it is one of the reasons of conflict).

I dont' think any of that science is so called...but whatever floats your bubble...

Open mindedness is key to becoming wiser...

It isn't valid because in one book, the theories say 4 billion years and another 16 billion. They also come up with different theories of which they are sure is correct, untile someone else says no their way is correct, so who should we follow.

We follow everyone with a grain of salt...Just like inventions...none are ever the best because they keep improving themselves.

No, but if today something as science is said to be fact, and for example they say 4 billion, in one year they will say no its 16 billion, so 8 billion years passed in oe year?
 Many people automatically assume that what science says is correct, are their legitimate aspects os science, yes, but we cant rely on the whole evolution, age of universe, and those type of subjects when even they do not agree with eachother (and in some cases themselves- when they want to start selling a new book- that Hopkins guy did just that).

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Tzvi, if the world was only 6,000 years old we would not be able to see the stars since they are millions of light years away meaning it would take millions of years for the light from the stars to reach us so that we can see them.  Carbon dating has been done on bones discovered and many date back much further back than 6,000 years as well.  The "Days" of the Torah are not man days but G-d's days since the count starts before the sun was created.

Not that I am taking a definite statement of time, etc, but why would us seeing stars be an obsticle for G-d to do? Anyway G-d is above time, etc.  Either way I think that this subject is sensitive, and shouldn't be speculated by our opinions, (as if we know everything), maybe some of the more knowledgable (in Torah) might begin explain some things, and if someone gets let them feel free to post.

bottom line is that Gd exists..and we shoudl do our part to be good people in this world.

Good, and correct, but also as a good Jew for Jews.

[Ari]

I'm confused.

[Dr. Dan]

The Torah may talk about cave men according to my opinion.  It says in Genesis 4:2 "the sons of G-d saw the daughters of Adam/man that they were good and they took for themsleves wives from whoever they wanted".  And in the next verse the Torah says that the Giants were the products of such a union. So the Torah gives 2 names for the people living at the time of Adam "sons of G-d" and "daughters of man/Adam" and their mixed offspring had unique characteristics in that they were "Giants".  The Hebrew word "Adam" means the name "Adam" and also can " man" so I use the slash "Adam/man".  This implies that one of these groups of people were decendants of Adam and the other were not his decendants so they were probably neanderthals existing before Adam.  This is also supported by Genesis Chapter One where it says that G-d created men and women on the sixth day, blessed them and told them to rule over the Earth etc. but it is not until Chapter Two that G-d creates Adam.  The Medrish opinion on the above verse is that people married angels but my opinion sounds better I think given the scientific support.

Adam was a unique creation that G-d made.  He was much smarter than the Neanderthals since he had the gift of language and creativity.  He also had the first soul as the Neanderthals didn't have souls but were like animals. 

That's what I believe but I didn't know the part about Genesis 4. I do know that Barry Chamish said that the giants were the children of men and aliens, which he uses to support his belief in UFO's. The Kabbalah also speaks of people from other Worlds but they are like angels and don't have free will.

See this thread for an archived in depth discussion on this topic: http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=1316.0.

 And Chamish is credible becuase   . I keep telling you that he is nuts and is a rasha, you should stop listining or even thinking about him.
 
 Anyway I dont like this whole notion of integrating science with Judasim, and redifining Judasim according to so called science. Were their worlds before this one, and are their studies that deal with these things (where some know, parts at least about it?), yes. But all this ufo garbage, and expecially people like chamish or any other rasha who is trying to sell a book or t.v. show should be completly ignored.
 Adam was created straight from G-d, he actually wasn't like a norman human being both physically (he was made of material like our nails) and mentally - he in his comprehension could "see" the whole world. Also his wife was made from his rib, and his children married eachother - each male had a twin female, and this was one of the arguments and cause of conflick between Chain and Hevel (becuase the younger was born with 2 twins while the older had one, and he believed he was intitled to 2 since he was the older (it is one of the reasons of conflict).

I dont' think any of that science is so called...but whatever floats your bubble...

Open mindedness is key to becoming wiser...

It isn't valid because in one book, the theories say 4 billion years and another 16 billion. They also come up with different theories of which they are sure is correct, untile someone else says no their way is correct, so who should we follow.

We follow everyone with a grain of salt...Just like inventions...none are ever the best because they keep improving themselves.

No, but if today something as science is said to be fact, and for example they say 4 billion, in one year they will say no its 16 billion, so 8 billion years passed in oe year?
 Many people automatically assume that what science says is correct, are their legitimate aspects os science, yes, but we cant rely on the whole evolution, age of universe, and those type of subjects when even they do not agree with eachother (and in some cases themselves- when they want to start selling a new book- that Hopkins guy did just that).

Science is limited relative to Gd's grace.  We can prove theories and facts to be wrong by doing experiments and then prove those experiments wrong by doing other experiments.  The same can be said of our evolution of how we perceive Gd and the Bible.  As we understand history and the world, we evolve our perception of what Gd really is and what the Torah is really saying.

It's not for us to rely on evolution or a literal translation of the Bible..the point here is that Gd exists and we need to do our best to be decent people and make the world a better place.  All the rest is commentary.

[Dr. Dan]

Tzvi, if the world was only 6,000 years old we would not be able to see the stars since they are millions of light years away meaning it would take millions of years for the light from the stars to reach us so that we can see them.  Carbon dating has been done on bones discovered and many date back much further back than 6,000 years as well.  The "Days" of the Torah are not man days but G-d's days since the count starts before the sun was created.

Not that I am taking a definite statement of time, etc, but why would us seeing stars be an obsticle for G-d to do? Anyway G-d is above time, etc.  Either way I think that this subject is sensitive, and shouldn't be speculated by our opinions, (as if we know everything), maybe some of the more knowledgable (in Torah) might begin explain some things, and if someone gets let them feel free to post.

bottom line is that Gd exists..and we shoudl do our part to be good people in this world.

Good, and correct, but also as a good Jew for Jews.

yes that too..but that is subject to interpretation of which you and I disagree with sort of.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Tzvi, if the world was only 6,000 years old we would not be able to see the stars since they are millions of light years away meaning it would take millions of years for the light from the stars to reach us so that we can see them.  Carbon dating has been done on bones discovered and many date back much further back than 6,000 years as well.  The "Days" of the Torah are not man days but G-d's days since the count starts before the sun was created.

Not that I am taking a definite statement of time, etc, but why would us seeing stars be an obsticle for G-d to do? Anyway G-d is above time, etc.  Either way I think that this subject is sensitive, and shouldn't be speculated by our opinions, (as if we know everything), maybe some of the more knowledgable (in Torah) might begin explain some things, and if someone gets let them feel free to post.

bottom line is that Gd exists..and we shoudl do our part to be good people in this world.

Good, and correct, but also as a good Jew for Jews.

yes that too..but that is subject to interpretation of which you and I disagree with sort of.

 So then you officially do not concider yourself Orthodox?

[Dr. Dan]

Tzvi, if the world was only 6,000 years old we would not be able to see the stars since they are millions of light years away meaning it would take millions of years for the light from the stars to reach us so that we can see them.  Carbon dating has been done on bones discovered and many date back much further back than 6,000 years as well.  The "Days" of the Torah are not man days but G-d's days since the count starts before the sun was created.

Not that I am taking a definite statement of time, etc, but why would us seeing stars be an obsticle for G-d to do? Anyway G-d is above time, etc.  Either way I think that this subject is sensitive, and shouldn't be speculated by our opinions, (as if we know everything), maybe some of the more knowledgable (in Torah) might begin explain some things, and if someone gets let them feel free to post.

bottom line is that Gd exists..and we shoudl do our part to be good people in this world.

Good, and correct, but also as a good Jew for Jews.

yes that too..but that is subject to interpretation of which you and I disagree with sort of.

 So then you officially do not concider yourself Orthodox?

I'm a Sephardic Jew...we have no orthodox, conservative nor reform.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Tzvi, if the world was only 6,000 years old we would not be able to see the stars since they are millions of light years away meaning it would take millions of years for the light from the stars to reach us so that we can see them.  Carbon dating has been done on bones discovered and many date back much further back than 6,000 years as well.  The "Days" of the Torah are not man days but G-d's days since the count starts before the sun was created.

Not that I am taking a definite statement of time, etc, but why would us seeing stars be an obsticle for G-d to do? Anyway G-d is above time, etc.  Either way I think that this subject is sensitive, and shouldn't be speculated by our opinions, (as if we know everything), maybe some of the more knowledgable (in Torah) might begin explain some things, and if someone gets let them feel free to post.

bottom line is that Gd exists..and we shoudl do our part to be good people in this world.

Good, and correct, but also as a good Jew for Jews.

yes that too..but that is subject to interpretation of which you and I disagree with sort of.

 So then you officially do not concider yourself Orthodox?

I'm a Sefardic Jew...we have no orthodox, conservative nor reform.

Yea, but according to the tradition, do you concider it valid? for example a Sefardic Rav would say that you cant drive a car on Shabbat, or you cant use the computer, would you agree or you would concider it "open to interpretation"?

[Dr. Dan]

Tzvi, if the world was only 6,000 years old we would not be able to see the stars since they are millions of light years away meaning it would take millions of years for the light from the stars to reach us so that we can see them.  Carbon dating has been done on bones discovered and many date back much further back than 6,000 years as well.  The "Days" of the Torah are not man days but G-d's days since the count starts before the sun was created.

Not that I am taking a definite statement of time, etc, but why would us seeing stars be an obsticle for G-d to do? Anyway G-d is above time, etc.  Either way I think that this subject is sensitive, and shouldn't be speculated by our opinions, (as if we know everything), maybe some of the more knowledgable (in Torah) might begin explain some things, and if someone gets let them feel free to post.

bottom line is that Gd exists..and we shoudl do our part to be good people in this world.

Good, and correct, but also as a good Jew for Jews.

yes that too..but that is subject to interpretation of which you and I disagree with sort of.

 So then you officially do not concider yourself Orthodox?

I'm a Sefardic Jew...we have no orthodox, conservative nor reform.

Yea, but according to the tradition, do you concider it valid? for example a Sefardic Rav would say that you cant drive a car on Shabbat, or you cant use the computer, would you agree or you would concider it "open to interpretation"?

I'll simply say that every jew shoudl strive to be better Jews..if that includes not driving or using a computer on Shabbat, then every Jew shoudl strive not to do those things... Some have great will power..others don't. Those who do use a computer on Shabbat do not necessarily make them terrible people doomed to go to Hell forever...A murderer yes...

[Lubab]

Tzvi, if the world was only 6,000 years old we would not be able to see the stars since they are millions of light years away meaning it would take millions of years for the light from the stars to reach us so that we can see them.  Carbon dating has been done on bones discovered and many date back much further back than 6,000 years as well.  The "Days" of the Torah are not man days but G-d's days since the count starts before the sun was created.

Not necessarily true what you're saying about the stars. I could just as easily tell you that G-d created the world with the light of the stars already extended to earth so we could benefit from them.

Too far fetched? Not any more far fetched than believing he created the stars in the first place.

[Kiwi]

You know you all believe differently from each other, funny how you all read the same book, meant to believe the same way, but don't agree.