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"Affirmative Action" Used For Women

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adam613:
>Did you ever hear of The Oral Torah?

Of course I have Yacov. I have leanred Gemarah. I have never heard this before and I think you are mistaken. The 10 spies were men and that is likely what the Talmud is talking about. The 10 spies were punished more severely then everybody else and they died instantly. Some say that is why men need 10 for a minyan. To make up for this sin. But everybody else was punished with 40 years in the desert and the only one's allowed in Israel were Caleb and Joshua and any child under 20. The Talmud is to explain in more detail the Bible or items that are vague not to make stuff up. The Talmud has to bring proof from the Chumash which in many cases it does like with Sabbath and all melacha's being melacha's that were performed in the Mishkan. Clearly reading the Hebrew says that once the spies brought their "evil report" all the Jews cried that night.  It makes no mention that it was only the men.

To continue to prove my point, Yacov, we do reward the woman for not being involved in the golden calf which some men were involved in. We don't celebrate the fact that woman weren't involved with this sin of the spies. I know of no such celebration. Why not, Yacov?

Don't tell me it is in the oral Torah. I think you are very mistaken, Yacov. The text couldn't be clearer that all the Jews once the report was given did not want to go to Israel. It says they cried all night. Was that only the men. Were the women in some other location. Like I said it is true that the spies that brought the evil report were 10 men but once that report was given the woman just as much as the men did not want to go to Israel and complained. I have never heard any other interpretation Yacov and I did go to Yeshiva. If you want to tell me this find it for me. I have never ever heard this.

adam613:
>I heard that Pharaoh's daughter Batya, a convert to Judaism, also entered Israel because she was a woman and entered with the other women.

BECAUSE SHE WAS A WOMAN. No! Because she helped in saving in Moses. It wasn't because of her gender. It was because of her actions.

>entered with the other women.
What other women. You can't just say vague stuff, Yacov.

adam613:
>It is true that some women died such as Miriam but not all.


I wish you look in numbers chapter 14 just ONCE. I have looked at it three times. Stop talking at the top of your head. It is obvious you DO NOT know what you are talking about. The only women that did not die out in the wilderness were the women under 20 and Caleb and Joshua's wife. The Bible is clear. If there is some altrenative explanation I have never heard it nor have you convinced me otherwise.

adam613:
In this case Yacov the burden of proof is on you. Artscroll doesn't give this interpretation and a lot of times they will mention a very liberal interpretation without telling you the whole story. Even Artscroll doesn't say what you are saying. To assume without proof that the men are guilty and the women aren't I think this is bad. You complain about others who you feel don't care about other Jews but to believe men are guilty and women aren't because somebody told you that doesn't suggest you care that much about other Jews especially Jewish men. WIthout any commentary unless the Torah uses the hebrew word Ish which means the male gender which it does not why would you assume only the women are guilty? I'm sure if someone told you only the woman guilty you would want proof and not just take someone at their word. You act like most women are right wingers while most men are appeaser's and today that is not true. I don't why it would be true in the past. It openly says that the only exception were children under 20 and Caleb and Joshua and their wives. The ony part of this is true that is likely what you may have heard is that the 10 spies who gave the bad report were men.  THere is no holiday for women for not being involved because they also did not want to go to Israel after they heard this bad report.
   In this case there is no reason for me to ask Chaim because you haven't proved anything. To hold a view that men are guilty and women are innocent because you heard it from somebody is very bad. It is an open and shut case. I stated above what I think you may have heard. I can't ask Chaim on every disagreement we have. I only get 1 question a week and this is pretty obvious to me. You should be able to debate me or any of the posts and not hide behind Chaim. Anyway, if you don't know then you assume both the men and women are equally guilty until you can prove otherwise. You take the approach men are guilty until proven innocent and women are innocent until proven guilty and that is not right. Why you feel that what I have to say is meaningless and you don't take without any seriousness unless I ask Chaim also bothers me.

   Also, I know you want to get married. I have to be honest though that giving women insincere flattery or discriminating against men to impress women in the end is not going to work. I was a little naive at one point too. Beleive me for someone who is dated and seen a lot of bad stuff women have done to men. When women get what they don't really deserve or earn they just have more desires for other things they don't deserve. We know Pirkei Avot says if someone has $100 they want 200. If they have 200 they want 400. Rabbi's that have given in to demands that aren't really right to women the women they have more demands that aren't right. No matter how much you give the women there are still certain disadvandages to being a women and the women will still feel that way no matter how much you give them. So the only real answer is to be honest that both men and women have different advandages and disadvandages and that is why men and women need to marry each other.

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