Author Topic: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War  (Read 24138 times)

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Offline MarZutra

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2008, 11:21:49 AM »
Islam is a cancer which, like communism, should be vanquished.  The Pyramids, although built by the Jews, should be kept, not only for historical context....but to show the world the ancient resourcefulness and building efficiency of the Jews.  Pyramids then and Israel 2000 years later.  Now, I will back the idea of taking a few D-9 dozers and taking out EVERY Mosque and holy shrine within the borders of Eretz Yisrael...   O0
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.


Offline FULL METAL JACKET

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2008, 11:52:49 AM »
Islam is a cancer which, like communism, should be vanquished.  The Pyramids, although built by the Jews, should be kept, not only for historical context....but to show the world the ancient resourcefulness and building efficiency of the Jews.  Pyramids then and Israel 2000 years later.  Now, I will back the idea of taking a few D-9 dozers and taking out EVERY Mosque and holy shrine within the borders of Eretz Yisrael...   O0
The pyramids weren't built by Jewish slaves. Read up on Egyptian history.
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Offline briann

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2008, 12:18:19 PM »
Quote
More often than not, "Conservatives" who constantly advocate for "free market capitalism" as being the system which built the greatest civilization in history (America), are merely living "in denial" of the fact that their "free market" forerunners refused to do any work which might have gotten their hands dirty!

What a STUPID statement!!!  Maybe you should go to the Bolshevik forums, where braindead propoganda will be believed.

Caplitalism did NOT start in the South with the plantations in America.  It had already existed 100's of years before. There were corporations as early as Roman times, and capitalist institutions such as stock exchanges, etc had all existed in Holland in the 1600's.

Fiscal conservatives around the world ADVOCATE the free market NOT because they secretly like colonial era slavery in the Southern states, but because in today's real world, the alternative SUCKS!!! Lets see... hmmmm where would I rather live??... N. Korea or S. Korea... hmmmm...  Open up your eyes,  people who live communist and socialist countries are all trying to escape.

Don't try to mix this issue in with slavery.  THis is like saying that all people who believe in capitalism support Nazism and/or Islamofascists, since there have been companies/corporations that have traded with both.

Offline Israeli Mouse

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2008, 12:30:12 PM »
Islam is a cancer which, like communism, should be vanquished.  The Pyramids, although built by the Jews, should be kept, not only for historical context....but to show the world the ancient resourcefulness and building efficiency of the Jews.  Pyramids then and Israel 2000 years later.  Now, I will back the idea of taking a few D-9 dozers and taking out EVERY Mosque and holy shrine within the borders of Eretz Yisrael...   O0

AGAIN we didnt build the pyramids. We built Pitom and Ramzis.
"Let us not suffer from a national amnesia that causes us to forget who and what we are."

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Offline briann

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2008, 12:32:37 PM »
Islam is a cancer which, like communism, should be vanquished.  The Pyramids, although built by the Jews, should be kept, not only for historical context....but to show the world the ancient resourcefulness and building efficiency of the Jews.  Pyramids then and Israel 2000 years later.  Now, I will back the idea of taking a few D-9 dozers and taking out EVERY Mosque and holy shrine within the borders of Eretz Yisrael...   O0

AGAIN we didnt build the pyramids. We built Pitom and Ramzis.

I was gonna state that as well, but I assumed everyone already knew this.  The great pyramids where built LONG before Rhamses II, etc. 

Offline MarZutra

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2008, 04:37:21 PM »
Oh, ok...you win....LOL  I was thinking that the children of Israel lived in Egypt prior to 1250BCE which Ramesses II (The Great) was King of Egypt from 1279-1213BCE but archeologists date Israel's conquest of Caanan between 1250-1000BCE with Judges somewhere around 1200-1050BCE.  I assumed that the whole Pyramid building period would have been well before this...  I assumed because the great pyramid of Giza: Khufu was built around 2560BCE and the Ancient Israelite Patriarchial period is guesstimated being around 2000-1700BCE that this theory may well have been possible.  I guess not...hey I learned something new today... O0
« Last Edit: March 11, 2008, 04:44:22 PM by MarZutra »
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline FULL METAL JACKET

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2008, 06:19:19 PM »
More often than not, "Conservatives" who constantly advocate for "free market capitalism" as being the system which built the greatest civilization in history (America), are merely living "in denial" of the fact that their "free market" forerunners refused to do any work which might have gotten their hands dirty!
Wow what the hell are you? a crypto-communist? You don't belong in this forum.

If you want to stand in line every day waiting for daily rations and not choose your own career please move to Cuba. You don't belong here.
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Offline Ambiorix

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2008, 06:36:41 PM »
More often than not, "Conservatives" who constantly advocate for "free market capitalism" as being the system which built the greatest civilization in history (America), are merely living "in denial" of the fact that their "free market" forerunners refused to do any work which might have gotten their hands dirty!
Wow what the hell are you? a crypto-communist? You don't belong in this forum.

If you want to stand in line every day waiting for daily rations and not choose your own career please move to Cuba. You don't belong here.

Lower your tone FMJ!!
Massuh is one of the most respected members here.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline FULL METAL JACKET

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2008, 06:37:34 PM »
More often than not, "Conservatives" who constantly advocate for "free market capitalism" as being the system which built the greatest civilization in history (America), are merely living "in denial" of the fact that their "free market" forerunners refused to do any work which might have gotten their hands dirty!
Wow what the hell are you? a crypto-communist? You don't belong in this forum.

If you want to stand in line every day waiting for daily rations and not choose your own career please move to Cuba. You don't belong here.

Lower your tone FMJ!!
Massuh is one of the most respected members here.
Get out here with that lower your tone. If you're against free market Capitalism you shouldn't be on this site.
Formely known as "1986"

Offline Ambiorix

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2008, 06:41:31 PM »
More often than not, "Conservatives" who constantly advocate for "free market capitalism" as being the system which built the greatest civilization in history (America), are merely living "in denial" of the fact that their "free market" forerunners refused to do any work which might have gotten their hands dirty!
Wow what the hell are you? a crypto-communist? You don't belong in this forum.

If you want to stand in line every day waiting for daily rations and not choose your own career please move to Cuba. You don't belong here.

Lower your tone FMJ!!
Massuh is one of the most respected members here.
Get out here with that lower your tone. If you're against free market Capitalism you shouldn't be on this site.
Take care what you say and do not insult Massuh again!
You need to read his statement again.
He says that the "free market" is hijacked by communist monopolists, that are to lazy to make ther hands dirty.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline MarZutra

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2008, 06:43:31 PM »
I think MassuhD wasn't speaking of the ideology of free market capitalism but those who were the pillars of it especially during the Industrial Revolution.  I believe his comments were solely directed at the "upper crust" of British society that capitalized during this period largely off of slave labor and exploitation...    my two cents...
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline FULL METAL JACKET

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2008, 06:44:52 PM »
More often than not, "Conservatives" who constantly advocate for "free market capitalism" as being the system which built the greatest civilization in history (America), are merely living "in denial" of the fact that their "free market" forerunners refused to do any work which might have gotten their hands dirty!
Wow what the hell are you? a crypto-communist? You don't belong in this forum.

If you want to stand in line every day waiting for daily rations and not choose your own career please move to Cuba. You don't belong here.

Lower your tone FMJ!!
Massuh is one of the most respected members here.
Get out here with that lower your tone. If you're against free market Capitalism you shouldn't be on this site.


Consider yourself warned. As I recall, you first came to this forum as 1986 with an Anti-Torah agenda. This site doesn't support such an agenda. People with such an agenda don't belong on this site themselves.
Anti Torah agenda? Stop lying please. I'm not against the Torah or Jews. If I did I wouldn't be on this site. My former username is in my signature. I have nothing to hide.
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Offline MarZutra

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2008, 06:46:02 PM »
Simple mistake FMJ.  Let's all move on...   ;)
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline FULL METAL JACKET

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2008, 06:49:15 PM »
More often than not, "Conservatives" who constantly advocate for "free market capitalism" as being the system which built the greatest civilization in history (America), are merely living "in denial" of the fact that their "free market" forerunners refused to do any work which might have gotten their hands dirty!
Wow what the hell are you? a crypto-communist? You don't belong in this forum.

If you want to stand in line every day waiting for daily rations and not choose your own career please move to Cuba. You don't belong here.

Lower your tone FMJ!!
Massuh is one of the most respected members here.
Get out here with that lower your tone. If you're against free market Capitalism you shouldn't be on this site.


Consider yourself warned. As I recall, you first came to this forum as 1986 with an Anti-Torah agenda. This site doesn't support such an agenda. People with such an agenda don't belong on this site themselves.
Anti Torah agenda? Stop lying please. I'm not against the Torah or Jews. If I did I wouldn't be on this site. My former username is in my signature. I have nothing to hide.


http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=16467.msg181983#msg181983

Remember this? Even Chaim was against you from the very beginning.


Read all my posts in that thread. Not just the first one. There was a proper discussion there.

Simple mistake FMJ.  Let's all move on...   ;)
ok
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Offline MarZutra

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2008, 06:55:15 PM »
I agree with the majority of what Chaim states but the Nile was never a part of the land of Israel.  If anything, when the Torah specifies the River Egypt most biblical scholars conclude the Eastern border to be to the Mediterranean, South to what is today Waddi-Al Arish or perhaps the, a stretch, the  Suez Canal but not the Nile River.  Personally, I’d have been happy to see Israel annex all the lands of ’67 and to have expelled the Muslim savages.  That would have made HaShem very proud I should think…
« Last Edit: March 11, 2008, 06:56:59 PM by Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim »
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline briann

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2008, 07:10:39 PM »
Islam is a cancer which, like communism, should be vanquished.  The Pyramids, although built by the Jews, should be kept, not only for historical context....but to show the world the ancient resourcefulness and building efficiency of the Jews.  Pyramids then and Israel 2000 years later.  Now, I will back the idea of taking a few D-9 dozers and taking out EVERY Mosque and holy shrine within the borders of Eretz Yisrael...   O0

AGAIN we didnt build the pyramids. We built Pitom and Rameses.

I was gonna state that as well, but I assumed everyone already knew this.  The great pyramids where built LONG before Rameses II, etc. 


Rameses is not The Pharaoh of The Exodus. The Exodus had to have have happened at least before 1400 B.C.E. to allow for there to be 480 years between The Exodus and the building of The First Temple.

We built the city of Rameses. This is not to be confused with Rameses II. He was named after the city. It wasn't the other way around.


Ayy, this is not something I want to debate.  There is so much controversy here. 

Offline HEBREWHONOR

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2008, 09:08:20 PM »
without really saying "bomb the pyramids"

lets check some facts

q:what would happen if israel would bomb the pyramids in yom kippur war or 6 days war:

a: Egypt would have lost alot of funds which flows in to their government treasure (which spends 73% of its income to buy weapons) on yearly basis .

q: what could be considered negative for taking such action ?

a: well firstly , you should focus on destroying the enemy , rather then its unmanned buildings . which we did
secondly , if we would have destroyed archaeological sites in Egypt and Sinai ,in retro perspective look - a lot of archaeological proofs of the tanakh , which have been found , would probably be destroyed


-

About who build the pyramids . many of them were built through different ages, the original designer is imhotep (which feats perfectly to the story of yosef btw , as well , his worship by the Egyptians , though he was not a king (or so we think , some archaeologists believe king yusfis (naar mar ) is actually yosef , and his successor menes , is menashe)  was mainly done through image of a bull , which haza"l mentions as well - this particular Egyptian worship - is how they worship the tribe yosef)
there are infact , in papyrus harris ,names of slaves labored by Egypt , of whom , some very hebraic names , like shifra , and menahem (!!)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2008, 09:30:57 PM by HEBREWHONOR »

Offline Eliezer Ben Avraham

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2008, 11:13:47 PM »
I agree with the majority of what Chaim states but the Nile was never a part of the land of Israel.  If anything, when the Torah specifies the River Egypt most biblical scholars conclude the Eastern border to be to the Mediterranean, South to what is today Waddi-Al Arish or perhaps the, a stretch, the  Suez Canal but not the Nile River.  Personally, I’d have been happy to see Israel annex all the lands of ’67 and to have expelled the Muslim savages.  That would have made HaShem very proud I should think…
Conquering more land would fall under the category of Milhemet Rishut, a permissable war (not an obligatory war), as such I don't think it is necessary
KAHANE TZADAK!

Offline MarZutra

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2008, 12:09:43 AM »
Very interesting is when I was touring Egypt back in 2002 we were discussing the historical relations to the Israelite and Egypt.  The end being that the Egyptologists stated that, with comparison to the Bible, Moshe would have been raised by Hatshepsut in her palace near Luxor between 1479 and 1458BCE.  It was a very interesting experience.  Perhaps moreso to the relationship of Troy and the archeological site of Agamemnon.   :)
"‘Vehorashtem/Numbers 33:53’: When you burn out the Land’s inhabitants, you will merit to bestow upon your children the Land as an inheritance. If you do not burn them out, then even if you conquer the Land, you will not merit to allot it to your children as an inheritance." - Ovadiah ben Yacov Sforno; Italian Rabbi, Biblical Commentator, Philosopher and Physician.  1475-1550.

Offline briann

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2008, 02:23:55 AM »
The pyramids are ok, I guess. Let them keep the pyramids to mind the current mooslim Egyptians that once their ancestors converted into islam, they wont be able to achieve anything like that again, as their NON mooslim ancestors did.


But the current Egyptians are not related to the ones who built The Pyramids. The current ones are Arabs. Only The Copts are related to The Ancient Egyptians.



Hmm, I was under the impression that the original Egyptians either remained exclusively Egyptian by continuing their Coptic religion, and the rest converted to islam and eventually intermarried with the invading arabs.
We studied it in my "Merchant Capital of islam" class. I still have the book, and yes there were ethnic arabs who lives in those countries, since their arab status gave them the right to be given land, but that also the egyptian converts also married into arab blood.

Do you mean to say that 0% of the modern day Egyptian mooslims are actually Egyptian and that 100% of the Coptic minority are the only real Egyptians? Don't you think that the arabs who conquered Egypt intermarried with the converts there? Or did the arabs conquerors only married other arab conquerors and no mooslim convert? Then what happened to the Egyptian converts, where did they go if you believe that modern day egyptians are not egyptian at all? 
Oh goodness, I am SOOO confused now!  :'(

Then again, my class could have been biased.


Just to throw a monkey wrench into all of this.   Most Egyptions have very little TRUE ARAB in them.  The Arabs conquered Egypt in 641 A.D. and the indigenous population (which was the majority) started to be called Copts or Coptics.

HOWEVER, the Egyptions or Copts who converted or were forced to convert to Islam began to CALL themselves Arabs.  (Even though many were still genetically Egyptian)

Again, I use the analogy of Hispanics.  Very few Latin Americans only follow the indiginous cultures, and nearly all have adopted the Spanish culture and language, and now refer to themselves as Hispanic (Even the they are racially mestizos or even Amerindians)

Brian




Offline briann

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2008, 02:59:14 AM »
Yes Brian, I do agree with that. I mean Copts are the minority and mooslims the majority. Therefore, if the Copts are the only real Egyptians, then something would be missing from the equation.

Egypt:
Arab invaders who settled in Egypt. ----->The minority population
Indigenous Egyptians converted to islam -----> The Majority
Indigenous Egyptians Christian Coptics -----> Became the minority

To say that modern day Egyptian mooslims are only arab and not actually Egyptian makes me wonder what happened to the Egyptians who converted to islam?  I mean there were not so many arabs as there were converts to islam so that is a lot of people who would disappear all of the sudden.

So, the minority arabs population who settled in Egypt married into the converted Egyptians and as Brian says, the majority of convertees just accepted and adopted arab culture.
But I do believe them to be the descendants of the ancient Egyptians who just adopted arab culture. And look at Egypt now!

BTW, even White Hispanics (not of mestizo origin) adopted to Spanish culture and some amerindians don't even know Spanish and live in their indigenous lifestyles. What an interesting world we live in!  ;)




Yes, thats pretty much what I was thinking but was too lazy to type :)

And yes, I tutored English to a lady who's friend could only speak the Indigineous language of the Aztecs (its starts with a Quetz.. something or other)

Offline JTFFan

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2008, 03:52:59 AM »
Thanks. I tried adding a diagram somehow but settled for "----->"  lol.

I don't know what that language would be called, but almost anything I hear that is related to Aztec culture starts with a "Quetz" and ends with a "tl"

I also heard that some native amerindians also speak something called "Nagualt" but I don't know what indigenous tribe this language is affiliated with.

Very interesting!

Very interesting, I'm trying to find the "Nagualt" language that they speak.

Offline Ambiorix

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #48 on: March 12, 2008, 10:16:04 AM »
Yes Brian, I do agree with that. I mean Copts are the minority and mooslims the majority. Therefore, if the Copts are the only real Egyptians, then something would be missing from the equation.

Egypt:
Arab invaders who settled in Egypt. ----->The minority population
Indigenous Egyptians converted to islam -----> The Majority
Indigenous Egyptians Christian Coptics -----> Became the minority

To say that modern day Egyptian mooslims are only arab and not actually Egyptian makes me wonder what happened to the Egyptians who converted to islam?  I mean there were not so many arabs as there were converts to islam so that is a lot of people who would disappear all of the sudden.

So, the minority arabs population who settled in Egypt married into the converted Egyptians and as Brian says, the majority of convertees just accepted and adopted arab culture.
But I do believe them to be the descendants of the ancient Egyptians who just adopted arab culture. And look at Egypt now!

BTW, even White Hispanics (not of mestizo origin) adopted to Spanish culture and some amerindians don't even know Spanish and live in their indigenous lifestyles. What an interesting world we live in!  ;)




I think The Aztecs might be descended from Ancient Egyptians. That could be where they got pyramids and papyrus from. The Aztecs in Mesoamerica built pyramids and wrote on papyrus. But my Colonial Latin America teacher said she doesn't believe there is evidence to support what I said.


This theory can be true. I read some Erich Van Daniken books, and they all said he was crazy.
But it is a good hypothesis
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline briann

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Re: Should Israel have Destroyed the Pyramids in the 1973 War
« Reply #49 on: March 12, 2008, 12:02:16 PM »
Yes Brian, I do agree with that. I mean Copts are the minority and mooslims the majority. Therefore, if the Copts are the only real Egyptians, then something would be missing from the equation.

Egypt:
Arab invaders who settled in Egypt. ----->The minority population
Indigenous Egyptians converted to islam -----> The Majority
Indigenous Egyptians Christian Coptics -----> Became the minority

To say that modern day Egyptian mooslims are only arab and not actually Egyptian makes me wonder what happened to the Egyptians who converted to islam?  I mean there were not so many arabs as there were converts to islam so that is a lot of people who would disappear all of the sudden.

So, the minority arabs population who settled in Egypt married into the converted Egyptians and as Brian says, the majority of convertees just accepted and adopted arab culture.
But I do believe them to be the descendants of the ancient Egyptians who just adopted arab culture. And look at Egypt now!

BTW, even White Hispanics (not of mestizo origin) adopted to Spanish culture and some amerindians don't even know Spanish and live in their indigenous lifestyles. What an interesting world we live in!  ;)




I think The Aztecs might be descended from Ancient Egyptians. That could be where they got pyramids and papyrus from. The Aztecs in Mesoamerica built pyramids and wrote on papyrus. But my Colonial Latin America teacher said she doesn't believe there is evidence to support what I said.


There is NO QUESTION, that the Aztecs got their knowledge from elsewhere, but their race is NOT Egyptian.  They are almost entirely traced back to a few dozen people who crossed over from Siberia.

 That Aztec civilization came about around the 12th century.  But they had been in and around MezoAmerica for 10,000 years.

So what are the chances that a people that had been in the area for 10,000 years only became civilized 300 years before the colonists came.  They obviously got their technology and their use of language elsewhere. 

Many archeoligsts beleive that the American continent got their knowledge from the Romans!!! don't beleive me??? check out this...
http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/romanbust.htm  (Keep in mind that Amerindians do NOT have facial hair)

Brian
« Last Edit: March 12, 2008, 12:18:47 PM by briann »