JTF and Christianity

[Dr. Dan]

I'm posting this here so anyone who wishes can defend JTF...

My main two questions are as follows:

• Suppose, for example, that Jesus Christ had His ministry not in Roman-controlled Israel but rather a Kahanist-controlled Israel. Would the Kahanists have persecuted Him?
• And if so, how can Christians fund and support those who are hostile to our Lord and Savior?

Chaim, what do you think should be done with the Goyim who pretend to be Jews to steal Jewish souls, personally I think we need to finish the job Bar Kochba started with the Notsrim.

Chaim agreed. From those who are unaware, "Notsrim" is Hebrew for "Christian". While JTF rightly objects to the Holocausts and pogroms against innocent people, it seems that it has no problem with the persecution of Christians. For as a reader of the New Testament knows, the Sanhedrin, the scribes and the Pharisees persecuted the Christians as heretics for as long as the Second Hebrew Commonwealth existed--and the Bar Kochba Revolt was an attempt to restore that commonwealth.

Now obviously a true Christian should oppose missionaries who deceive and harass people. But it seems that all missionaries are seen in this light. Now as I have said before I am not a missionary myself. But...it seems that this is part of a hostility on the part of certain zealots towards Christianity. Suppose, for example, that Jesus Christ had His ministry not in Roman-controlled Israel but rather a Kahanist-controlled Israel. Would the Kahanists have persecuted Him? And if so, how can Christians fund and support those who are hostile to our Lord and Savior?

And while Allen-T's words have to be taken with a grain of salt due to his bigotry, he may be right when he said that JTF appeals to Christians not for the purposes of a genuine alliance but rather for the purposes of fundraising. I hope I'm wrong but it seems that for tactical purposes JTF is suppressing an underlying hostility toward Christian teaching.

First off, if someone like Yeshu existed at a time of kahanist israel, he would have been as any Jew.  I'm not sure how Kahanists about Yeshu. I'm not completely sure what type of Judaism he taught. If he was a halakhic type jew or if he was a reform type Jew. If he was the halakhic torah type Jew, I'm sure Kahanists woud lhave respected him. If he encouraged Jews to not follow the mitzvot, he would have been regarded as a self-hating Jew.

The only thing that I was ever told about Yeshu was that he didn't want Jews fighting against each other since there was a greater enemy amongst their midst-that was the Romans.  If this is what he truely believed-to love your fellow Jew and stand strong together, then in my opinion, it was a good thing. I personally support Jews who believe in a One United Israel. I respect Jewish movements who also demand respect and honor.  Not sure what Yeshu stood for in that respect.

Now, I'm not one to judge those who believe in Jesus Christ as the lord savior messiah.  I respect my rigtheous Christian friends and their theologies and I believe that the stories of Jesus created by the apostoles has done more good in bringing gentiles closer to Gd and morality.  Those who have murdered Jews in the name of Christianity, weren't really christians, just as Muslims who murder "infidels"...well, they are being actual muslims.

So Hidden Author, Kahanists would have deplored any Jew who encouraged others to stop practicing mitzvot. In addition, if Kahanists lived at the time of Apostle Paul, I believe they would have labled him as a nut, no offense.  And the reason why would have been because he used the Greek language to conclude that Jesus was Gd.  Another thing that I think Kahanists would have opposed strongly was the fact that Paul created a precident to convert Roman gentiles into this Christianity and by making a religion similar to a Roman like pagan like religion.  This to every Torah abiding Jew,  would have been a very unJewish thing to do.

It's been done.  A new religion was formed. It's called christianity. It's not Judaism. My love to all the righteous gentiles who are Christian who have come closer to Gd because of Paul. To us, Yeshu is not a legend, but another regular Jew who moved the hearts of some other Jews to revere him as a messiah after he died.

On your second comment about the stealing of souls:  There are Christians who pretend to be Jewish and pretend to be practicing Judaism and try to steal lost Jews into their religion making them believe that they are practicing Judaism but are really not.  Some will say, "You can be a Jew and still beleive in Jesus and be saved!"  I'm sorry, you can't be both and quite frankly, very misleading. We hate those people.  They deserve the worst punishment imaginable.  You also have those who don't mislead Jews but simply believe that Jews will go to hell for not believing in Jesus. My friend, someone who thinks like this is just another Muslim. YES I SAY IT LOUD AND CLEAR. A CHRISTIAN WHO BELIEVES THIS IS NOTHING MORE THAN A DIRTY MUSLIM WHO BELIEVES IN KILLING ALL INFIDELS.  And a Jew who believes the same thing about non Jews, is also JUST AS BAD A DIRTY STINKING MUSLIM!!!


and hidden author, I will repeat...Yeshu was a regular man to us.  Paul and the apostles made him to be the legend that he is seen to be today,
(all the power to them).

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

Very simple, and I think everyone on this forum will support me:

I HATE Missionaries(period!!!)

There is no better way to stop missionaries than missionizing to them.

You don't have beat them up. Offer them a circumsision.

[Daniel Ben Hanania]

I think in early ages followers of Jesus was also known as followers of Rabbi Yehoshua
Am I right

[Daniel Ben Hanania]

Very simple, and I think everyone on this forum will support me:

I HATE Missionaries(period!!!)

There is no better way to stop missionaries than missionizing to them.

You don't have beat them up. Offer them a circumsision.

Sometimes you have to !!!! You have no idea how many Jews those idiots convert during summer time in Brooklyn.

[Dr. Dan]

Hitler Author,

You are disgusting. You are no better than the evil pieces of excrement that call us "Christ Killers". Your entire aim, as long as you've posted, has been to try and hurt JTF. You failed miserably and this is yet another attempt to disuade Christian members from supporting JTF.

While pretending to be a Christian where pride comes before a fall, you said:

Basically whenever I've criticized you guys on the forum or on Ask JTF! Remember I'm an intellectual heavyweight and you guys are intellectual lightweights...

Shortly after,  you said:

Keep on fooling yourself...you're a heavyweight masturbator.

Your point being...? 

And you posted a picture with the f-bomb and G-d on it here:

WARNING: GRAPHIC LANGUAGE
http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/wong/badass4.jpg

And posted a link to:

http://www.cracked.com/article_15699_9-most-badass-bible-verses.html

Where things were said like:

Sure, Moses was a great leader, an emancipator of his people and a prophet. Most people don't know that he also was the Biblical equivalent of Splinter Cell's Sam Fisher--a well-honed killing machine, able to slay from the shadows without pity or remorse. Martin Luther King may have had a dream, but Moses had a body count.

So tell me, Hitler Author... are you posting this garbage ON A RELIGIOUS FORUM because you "feel sorry for and want to save the Christians from JTF's clutches"? Or is the real truth that you hate G-d, hate Israel, and hate the Bible and wish to destroy our movement? I think it's obvious. Yup... Hidden is right... deceptive and hidden from the truth. You have some nerve. Why don't you join "Peace Now" or are you already a card carrying member?

You are evil, sick, depraved, so arrogant, and an intellectual moron. I think I just proved my point. I'd like to take that one step further to show how Chaim has answered every one of your questions with logic and reason (and wow, did you look foolish!) and you still look for ways to attack us. You failed miserably and your arrogant ego has a really tough time with that one. Now you pretend to be the Chrisitians' "friend" and show how JTF is supposedly against them? What a joke. You have no idea what we have gone through to make peace and how far out of our way we have gone to show respect to the Christians on this forum. Your statements show your bias, hatred, and disgust for G-d, the Bible, and the Jewish people.

You forgot that one part that says that those who curse Israel (the Jewish people) will be cursed and those who bless Israel will be blessed... but since you aren't really a Christian and you've admitted you are not a Jew, I guess that doesn't really matter to you.

I'll give it a few minutes before your ban so that I can show respect for Lisa (and let her have the honor).

Look even though I was baptized a Catholic sometimes I have trouble keeping the faith. Perhaps that's why atheist arguments or even humor doesn't faze me. But when people express the desire to physically harm Christians or slander Jesus Christ by portraying Him like Osama bin Laden (this was on another forum, I'm not accusing you), I feel distraught because

• my family is Christian
• the people I live among are largely Christian
• America is largely Christian
• While I have my doubts, there is still some residual Christianity in my heart

Now I don't approve of pogroms or other anti-Semitic activity--obviously blaming all Jews for killing Christ is absurd. But when people persecute Christians for their faith in the name of Judaism, it seems like they are copying the New Testament Pharisees. Jews should not be judged more harshly for any action than Gentiles committing the same action but neither should they be judged any less harshly.

So to sum it all up:

• Not all Jews are Christ-killers!!!
• But those who persecute people for being Christian are behaving like Pharisees.

It's the not the persecution of Christians we support. It's the hateful feeling we have towards those who try to steal Jewish souls and have no respect for Jews by believing that Christianity is the ONLY true religion.  There is no one true theology. there is only GD and Gd is the only thing that is true.

[Wayne Jude]

They only come to divide !I dont feel I sin when I come here,As a matter of fact I know I dont!We caught a dumb one, its the smart ones who bother me.
wayne jude

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

Very simple, and I think everyone on this forum will support me:

I HATE Missionaries(period!!!)

There is no better way to stop missionaries than missionizing to them.

You don't have beat them up. Offer them a circumsision.

Sometimes you have to !!!! You have no idea how many Jews those idiots convert during summer time in Brooklyn.

My friend, Muslims used to tell me (in a Muslim country) to convert into Islam. They felt sorry to open their mouth thereafter, because I was not telling them to be kind to me. I said to them the following:

"While my fathers for thousands of years worshiped the One G-d, your fathers worshiped stones. And now, thousands of years later, you, a recent pagan, who stole everything from me, you tell me to become like you? You should become like me. I understand, my people were not proselytizing, and that’s why your so called prophet had to make an illegal copy of my religion to distribute it on the black market. But I am to correct to this mistake. I offer you to become Jewish in its truest since.”

[Wayne Jude]

Man did you make that up?Mind If I use it?Modified of course LOL

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

Man did you make that up?Mind If I use it?Modified of course LOL

Be my guest! A good guest, and I will be a good host.

[Wayne Jude]

It sounds like it came from a Charleton Heston movie!

[MasterWolf1]

That just gets me aggravated too and I am glad Schlomo you banned him.  I hate when so called Christians claim they got a need to be missionaries that is not what we are here for.   His idea is like Anus T that thinks I am going to hell cause I am Catholic. And I will stand by this banning for sure.     

[Wayne Jude]

Not to judge but his fruits were questionable!
wayne  jude

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

It sounds like it came from a Charleton Heston movie!

Copyright (c) Zvulun ben Moshe. All rights reserved.

Have Charleton Heston sue me 

[DownwithIslam]

Thank G-d he was banned. The only thing he did on this forum was pop up every once in awhile to ask Chaim ridiculous questions in ask jtf. Every single question he asked was about the same thing and was meant to cause trouble on the forum. Their is no purpose in having drek like that here. Chaim always says that we shouldn't ban people right away even if they are bad since it is god practice debating them but I disagree. The purpose of this is to become a mass movement so having people on here who hate us is just a waste of time. People should be banned when they show even the slightest bit of jew hatred or anything that Chaim would disapprove of.

[Dr. Dan]

Thank G-d he was banned. The only thing he did on this forum was pop up every once in awhile to ask Chaim ridiculous questions in ask jtf. Every single question he asked was about the same thing and was meant to cause trouble on the forum. Their is no purpose in having drek like that here. Chaim always says that we shouldn't ban people right away even if they are bad since it is G-d practice debating them but I disagree. The purpose of this is to become a mass movement so having people on here who hate us is just a waste of time. People should be banned when they show even the slightest bit of jew hatred or anything that Chaim would disapprove of.

I think putting them down with a good debate will make thsi movement look better and stronger. I have no problem with keeping dissenters around just for a ltitle while just tomake them look stupid.

[Wayne Jude]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
He wont he just died last week.RIP!

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
He wont he just died last week.RIP!

Ahhh! Hidden Author should have raised this question at least one week ago. I guess, he deserved to be banned.

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
He wont he just died last week.RIP!

Ahhh! Hidden Author should have raised this question at least one week ago. I guess, he deserved to be banned.

In fact, Christianwhitenation, if you were really concerned about copyright and plagiarism, you should have questioned Hidden Author's words. It sounded like the Jews have heard those words before.  In fact, for the past 2000 that was the only thing we heard.

Thus he is not a Hidden Author, he is a Hidden Plagiarist.

[Wayne Jude]

To me  I know should not judge but  i think he is a pagan nazi!
He would hate this Christian for being a Joo lover.
wayne jude

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

To me  I know should not judge but  i think he is a pagan nazi!
He would hate this Christian for being a Joo lover.
wayne jude

He reminded me a prostitute who complains that the girl next door is a slut.

Man, come on! Be a man first of all. Don't be a prostitute. Look at yourself and then attack others.

Don't forget G-d created a man first, and only then men become Jewish, Christian, Muslim etc.

In other words, whatever your faith is, think as a man first.

[Wayne Jude]

Get Ya!

[MassuhDGoodName]

Tzvi:  "...Wait your Jewish right? Either way please dont write christian or other religion's teachings on a Jewish forum..."

YES, I'M A JEW; TRIED, TESTED, AND TRUE.

AND DON'T EVER SUGGEST TO ME WHAT I MAY OR MAY NOT RIGHT ON THIS JEWISH FORUM...WHICH, BY THE WAY, IS EQUALLY AS MUCH MY FORUM AS IT IS YOURS.

[Ulli]

Serious

Christians have so much work to do in order to educate themselve, their families and if possible their communities in their own religion and the linked culture.

We all know, that the most Christians know not enough of their religion.

Let's concentrate the religious education on our own people! We will have more work to do than a whole human life will take.

There are billions of brainwashed evil Muzzies out there. If somebody want to evangelize - there is his task!

History is prooving that God want Israels existence as a Jewish state. I think the Jews have the right to it.

This clash is pure waste of time and it will only bring the Muzzie advantages.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The Roman Empire often allowed natives to police themselves through local governments as long as they paid their (very heavy) taxes. This policing power allowed the Jews in local government (the priests and the scribes) to condemn people to death for heresy especially if they could convince the Roman governor that the "heretic" was also a traitor to Caesar. If you read the New Testament, you will find that the Pharisees "to defend Jewish Law" often encouraged Roman magistrates to kill Christians not just in Israel but in the Diaspora as well.

First of all, that sounds like a (hateful) misreading of new testament purposely designed by you to villify Jews, but I don't know about Christianity so I can't say.  Secondly, what source do you have outside of new testament to back these wild claims?  Any historical source?  Didn't think so.

 And while this persecution was sporadic and localized at first due to the small size of the Church, things changed.

"the Church" What Church?  It wasn't established yet.  Persecutions?  LOL...

 In particular, the Pharisees/rabbis encouraged bar Kochba to "purify Israel". To understand what they meant by "purify Israel", in the aftermath of the revolts, they declared Jewish Christians to be excommunicated!

Interesting interpretation of Bar Kochba, but just to inform you 1.  Bar Kochba's revolts were a widescale revolt of Jews against the Roman armed forces.  They brought the entire Roman army and massive amounts of infighting doomed the revolts (there were traitor Jews who sided with the Romans, what else is new, and there was squabbling).  All told about 500,000 Jews were slaughtered, AND BAR KOCHBA WAS KILLED BY THE ROMANS.  The remaining Jews after the defeat were taken into captivity and ran for their lives spreading out in the diaspora.

Please don't invent history to put a hateful, negative light on Jews to inspire hatred and violence against us.  We've had ENOUGH of this in our history.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

But when people express the desire to physically harm Christians or slander Jesus Christ by portraying Him like Osama bin Laden (this was on another forum, I'm not accusing you),

What?  Who expressed such a desire?  If you're talking about missionaries, they deserve it anyway.  No one wants to harm any other Christians.  But guess what?  That little incident with the missionary family that got bombed in Israel?  THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT A JEW DID IT!  Absolutely NONE.  The security establishment admitted this.  And that same family has been attacked by ARABS before.  But it is being turned into yet another blood libel by hateful other missionaries outside of Israel who want to portray Jews as evil.  Are you proud to do your part?

Now I don't approve of pogroms or other anti-Semitic activity

Gee how generous of you.

--obviously blaming all Jews for killing Christ is absurd. But when people persecute Christians for their faith in the name of Judaism,

 

No one is doing that, you paranoid antisemitic freak.  You want to know what is considered persecuting in the name of religion?  Aside from pogroms and antisemitic attacks on Jews.  MISSIONARY work to deceive vulnerable Jews and try to convert them is ALSO persecution.  And what is that in the name of exactly?

So to sum it all up:

• Not all Jews are Christ-killers!!!
• But those who persecute people for being Christian are behaving like Pharisees.

Oh, only some of us are christ-killers?   Wow you are so very generous.   You couldn't shine a Pharisee's shoe.