The ultimate act of informing. Look at these Chasidim in action.

[DownwithIslam]

May these beasts die a miserable death and soon.

[JTFFan]

May these beasts die a miserable death and soon.

These BolsheviKKK BeastSS should die a slow agonizing death  , without Zionism there wouldn't be any Jews, including the self-hating ones in the video that want Israel wiped off the map! 

[AsheDina]

May these beasts die a miserable death and soon.

These BolsheviKKK BeastSS should die a slow agonizing death  , without Zionism there wouldn't be any Jews, including the self-hating ones in the video that want Israel wiped off the map! 

  HOW COULD THEY DO THIS!!! HOW!!!! Oh Lord have vengeance.

[Ulli]

May these beasts die a miserable death and soon.

Yes this is treason. 

[Ben Yehuda]

I think the reporter had it right- "twilight zone." It's just inexplicable. Pinch me so I can wake up from this nightmare.

[q_q_]

I can't view it now but if you mean neturei karta, they are harmless.
because they are small and won't catch on.


I will be a bit controversial, and say..

I spoke to one and have heard them speak on google video/youtube.

They have some funny values, happy to be treated as second class citizens, like donkeys. As long as they can follow the torah.
They never say they want jews to die..

They pray for israel to be peacefully dismantled.. Not by war.
But if it did end in a war G-d forbid, then they would say it was G-d's punishment, the same philosophy as satmar had when they got suicide bombed on the way to shul(synagogue).

They only differ with satmar in that they stand with our enemies..
But notice that they try to appease them and honour them and calm them down, and tell them not all jews are bad..
They are cowardly, because they think they are supposed to be. To be submissive.  It is the opposite of kahanism, they believe jewish physical strength is bad, and jewish weakness is good..

They have an irrational hatred of zionists..
But they are not nazis or beasts.

They do seem to refuse to condemn arabs for terrorism.. I asked one , he said "what was the israeli doing sitting in a cafe having a coffee?".  But he also said, what do you expect from a gentile(since he does not have torah telling him to be submissive), you take away his power, he goes mad. He wants power like the zionist..  So that is their view..
An interesting question for them would be if , a neturei karta rabbis was murdered, would they condemn the arab?  
They may just see it as G-d's punishment for something.

I know this site does it, but it is silly to just label everybody a nazi...  Especially religious jews.

It does shortcut the mind.. Fine for muslims, we understand them, there is lots of information out there, people know.
But neturei karta is not as analysed, and just calling them nazis shortcuts the brain.

You should understand their thinking.

It's not a matter of neturei karta = hamas , and thus = nazis

You may say they would be as dangerous if they had the numbers.. But they mean well and do not want to kill jews.

Obviously we can't work with them! ;-)


their core philosophy is satmar, and even rabbi kahane was sympathetic to that, as a torah position.
He , we, like satmar, disagree with thier standing with terrorists.
But I don't think they want to destroy israel in war.

[Ulli]

I can't view it now but if you mean neturei karta, they are harmless.
because they are small and won't catch on.


I will be a bit controversial, and say..

I spoke to one and have heard them speak on google video/youtube.

They have some funny values, happy to be treated as second class citizens, like donkeys. As long as they can follow the torah.
They never say they want jews to die..

They pray for israel to be peacefully dismantled.. Not by war.
But if it did end in a war G-d forbid, then they would say it was G-d's punishment, the same philosophy as satmar had when they got suicide bombed on the way to shul(synagogue).

They only differ with satmar in that they stand with our enemies..
But notice that they try to appease them and honour them and calm them down, and tell them not all jews are bad..
They are cowardly, because they think they are supposed to be. To be submissive.  It is the opposite of kahanism, they believe jewish physical strength is bad, and jewish weakness is good..

They have an irrational hatred of zionists..
But they are not nazis or beasts.

They do seem to refuse to condemn arabs for terrorism.. I asked one , he said "what was the israeli doing sitting in a cafe having a coffee?".  But he also said, what do you expect from a gentile(since he does not have torah telling him to be submissive), you take away his power, he goes mad. He wants power like the zionist..  So that is their view..
An interesting question for them would be if , a neturei karta rabbis was murdered, would they condemn the arab? 
They may just see it as G-d's punishment for something.

I know this site does it, but it is silly to just label everybody a nazi...  Especially religious jews.

It does shortcut the mind.. Fine for muslims, we understand them, there is lots of information out there, people know.
But neturei karta is not as analysed, and just calling them nazis shortcuts the brain.

You should understand their thinking.

It's not a matter of neturei karta = hamas , and thus = nazis

You may say they would be as dangerous if they had the numbers.. But they mean well and do not want to kill jews.

Obviously we can't work with them! ;-)


their core philosophy is satmar, and even rabbi kahane was sympathetic to that, as a torah position.
He , we, like satmar, disagree with thier standing with terrorists.
But I don't think they want to destroy israel in war.

In real Christianity (I don't talk about Jehovas Wittnesses and other sects) are groups like this too. I remember mainly the Mennonites and all groups split from them.

Hutterites (one group of Mennonites) refuse to bear arms and do no military service. People droved them from Tirol in Austria, to Tchecheslowakia, to Rumania, to Russia to the USA and from there to Canada.

The baptist movement splitted in the beginning in two groups.

The first were the "walking stick peoples" who refuse to bear arms and the second were the "Sword people", who bear arms.

All baptists, who take the sword were killed by the sword, because they were only a little miniority and they have no support.

But the Hutterites who refused to fight back suffered terrible, but survived. They developed their culture and theology and took it with them from country to country. They seperated themselve from the physical world and don't engage in politics. They let other people mock and rob them and never fought back.

I think they produce a galut mentality.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But Jews have now their own state. There is no longer a reason for this.

Neturei Karta doesn't understand this. Now God gave the Jews the new time of freedom and they should except it. It is a great gift.

[Scriabin]

Wow.

Notice how the 'Jew' speaking at 2 minutes 30 seconds looks strikingly like the Iranian Dictator.

[q_q_]

I can't view it now but if you mean neturei karta, they are harmless.
because they are small and won't catch on.


I will be a bit controversial, and say..

I spoke to one and have heard them speak on google video/youtube.

They have some funny values, happy to be treated as second class citizens, like donkeys. As long as they can follow the torah.
They never say they want jews to die..

They pray for israel to be peacefully dismantled.. Not by war.
But if it did end in a war G-d forbid, then they would say it was G-d's punishment, the same philosophy as satmar had when they got suicide bombed on the way to shul(synagogue).

They only differ with satmar in that they stand with our enemies..
But notice that they try to appease them and honour them and calm them down, and tell them not all jews are bad..
They are cowardly, because they think they are supposed to be. To be submissive.  It is the opposite of kahanism, they believe jewish physical strength is bad, and jewish weakness is good..

They have an irrational hatred of zionists..
But they are not nazis or beasts.

They do seem to refuse to condemn arabs for terrorism.. I asked one , he said "what was the israeli doing sitting in a cafe having a coffee?".  But he also said, what do you expect from a gentile(since he does not have torah telling him to be submissive), you take away his power, he goes mad. He wants power like the zionist..  So that is their view..
An interesting question for them would be if , a neturei karta rabbis was murdered, would they condemn the arab? 
They may just see it as G-d's punishment for something.

I know this site does it, but it is silly to just label everybody a nazi...  Especially religious jews.

It does shortcut the mind.. Fine for muslims, we understand them, there is lots of information out there, people know.
But neturei karta is not as analysed, and just calling them nazis shortcuts the brain.

You should understand their thinking.

It's not a matter of neturei karta = hamas , and thus = nazis

You may say they would be as dangerous if they had the numbers.. But they mean well and do not want to kill jews.

Obviously we can't work with them! ;-)


their core philosophy is satmar, and even rabbi kahane was sympathetic to that, as a torah position.
He , we, like satmar, disagree with thier standing with terrorists.
But I don't think they want to destroy israel in war.

In real Christianity (I don't talk about Jehovas Wittnesses and other sects) are groups like this too. I remember mainly the Mennonites and all groups split from them.

Hutterites (one group of Mennonites) refuse to bear arms and do no military service. People droved them from Tirol in Austria, to Tchecheslowakia, to Rumania, to Russia to the USA and from there to Canada.

The baptist movement splitted in the beginning in two groups.

The first were the "walking stick peoples" who refuse to bear arms and the second were the "Sword people", who bear arms.

All baptists, who take the sword were killed by the sword, because they were only a little miniority and they have no support.

But the Hutterites who refused to fight back suffered terrible, but survived. They developed their culture and theology and took it with them from country to country. They seperated themselve from the physical world and don't engage in politics. They let other people mock and rob them and never fought back.

I think they produce a galut mentality.

They might reply, we are in galus, and so why act like we are not?

I am not sure but I think rabbi kahane said we are still in galus. So kahanists also believe we are in galus. The beginning of geulah (redemption) perhaps, but still galus.. And galus until the geulah is complete.

Anyhow, comparing them to non political groups is being too kind to neturei karta..  Satmar are non political..

Neturei karta are more like the westboro baptist church..

The core philosophy of neturei karta - that for example zionism is the biggest danger to jews, and that if we get killed G-d is punishing us and it's our sins that caused it.. They are shared by most charedim.

Their big controversies are that Neturei karta are "friendly" with terrorists  - who are killing jews. And  westboro baptist church picket funerals of soldiers and sing that G-d hates america.
Infact, both burn flags and both travel the world to get media to advertise their message!
 

[Archie]

May these beasts die a miserable death and soon.

Yes this is treason. 

Maybe.

I don't think they are genuine traitors though.

I think they are misled, YES, but traitors...NO.

They just fight for what they feel is right.

They are good Jews.

We should open our arms to them.

They may see the light.

[q_q_]

May these beasts die a miserable death and soon.

Yes this is treason. 

Maybe.

I don't think they are genuine traitors though.

I think they are misled, YES, but traitors...NO.

They just fight for what they feel is right.

They are good Jews.

We should open our arms to them.

They may see the light.

It is a stretch to say they are good jews..  You can't just say that.
They may fight for what they feel is right, but so do muslims.

And regarding being nice to them so they see the light. I know it's effective, but I hate the whole outreach/missionary concept of being nice to people so that they join you.  It's manipulative.

Be kind to the kind and cruel to the cruel..

If they are stupid enough to be won over just because you are nice , then they probably weren't very sure in the first place.   And they might leave just as easily as they came. You should be nice Anyway.
Unless they are bad.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I dont like the tone of the title of this thread. These are NK, not Haredim.
 And anyway I dont think that Jews should be nice to them when they stand by our enemies. The more attention they are given the more power they will get. + they are only doing it for the $. BUT on the other hand, to see a punishment and then saying its from G-d or saying that we are still in Galut, is correct. All punishments are from G-d, but the key point is in figuring out why (through a lot of Torah learning, and seeing in the Torah) the punishments are coming. Rav Kahane for example did say that the terrorist acts from the arabs come out because the crime that we are doing is keeping them in our land. And since they are their G-d stirrs it into their heads to do what they do (or alternativly they were going to do it anyway, so G-d put their souls in their body and put them in that situation where they would do what they do).

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

May these beasts die a miserable death and soon.

without Zionism there wouldn't be any Jews, including the self-hating ones in the video that want Israel wiped off the map! 

 I dont think that is accurate to say. Lets not submit ourselves to what the state has propagandized to say that they are some sort of "Messiah" who brought salvation for the Jews.

[q_q_]

They are good Jews.
<snip>

although I did excuse them from the nazi label..

I said it was a stretch to say they were good jews.. Here is an example.. I was speaking to one, and he covered his ears at the name Kahane.. Then when he mentioned the name, he said ymach shmo  , which incase anybody does not know, is the thing you say after a hitler or an arafat.  They have some outrageous views.
They really hate zionism and do not see it as a torah position..  But to say that about a rabbi, about such a wise gadol, rabbi kahane, that is just outrageous, and you cannot say that such a person is a good jew.
And somebody who goes to meet with arafat or ahmedinejad, and shakes his hand, and refuses to say terrorism is bad.. That is not a good jew.. You can't just say "oh, they are misled", like they are idiots. They would say the same about religious zionists.  (of course they hate the leaders, because they cannot say they are misled, they say they know what they are doing is wrong, and they still do it). Don't play psychological games saying they are misled.. It's like the game you mentioned of being nice to them so they join us. Give them some credit/respect, don't view them with contempt. Besides their barmier positions  , there is a torah basis to their argument, as there is to ours.

[Ulli]

http://www.godhatesfags.com/

I have learned something about the westboro baptist church in the last minutes.

Yes you are right: They are more like Neturei Karta.

They take a text from the bible, seperate this text from the whole book and justify with it out of context  their ideology.

Yes it is true: All evil that happens to people is a punishment from god. Even from a Christian point of view. The evil can have it's source in the devil, but because god is almighty He has to allow it at least.

We are not in the position to question his will.

But the soldiers, which died, were no fags. They have as persons nothing to do with the fag-plague.

It is a sass, that this lunetics affront the    surviving dependants of this poor families. For this is no apology. 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

"Besides their barmier positions  , there is a torah basis to their argument, as there is to ours. "
 
 I think people are getting too confused between for example Satmer and NK. NK has no real basis. Yes, some of the things they say are correct and true, BUT the way they spinn it is obviouly manipulative and evil. Most of what it is for $ though, and also false pride.
  With that said, those who reject having a state to begin with I can respect, and I even read in one of the Ben Ish Chai books that the redemption should come on its own and shouldn't be done with force (I have my own interpretation and vision of what it could mean beyond the Pshat maybe later ill state it), so for me after reading that I can respect that position more, even though I do not personally feel it to be the case, but I dont know.

[Archie]

"Besides their barmier positions  , there is a torah basis to their argument, as there is to ours. "
 

I did two work term in Montreal, Canada. I spent 8 months over there, and I was living close by to a Haredim community. I know for a fact that some of them were NKs.

I mean, I don't know or care about the theological reasons why Haredims seem to be outcasted by their Brothers, but I find that situation very unfortunate.

These Haredims were very good citizens, and the best of neighbors.

Yes, what the NK leaders did at the Nazi conference in IRAN was absolutely EVIL, and completely counter-productive.

But to lump all their members into the bad apple basket...I don't think it's fair.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I agree. When I saw the "Chasidim" tittle, I got concerned but then I saw it was the dreaded and traitorous NK.
They may be a a small fringe group BUT the mooslims love to use "NK" and rub it in everyone's face calling them "real Jews".

Once in a protests, some stupid mooslims were trying to brainwash people and said "even real Orthodox Jews support fakestine and are against Israel" and showed the guy a picture of NK...to which I stopped the girl and told her "NO!!!  That's not true,you're lying to this person. Orthodox Jews DO support Israel like Chabad etc..etc.." so I shut her up.

Also, there was a call to cut off NK. I heard that after they went to iran and met with the pedophile monkey amajinebad and returned home, they found that many of their wives wanted to divorce them and that some Yeshivas kicked their kids out.  I'm sorry for the children but that shows that NK is a laughing stalk that real Jews wont take seriously and in fact, many are calling for them to be cut off.

 Yes, I believe they are in Herem (excommunication).

[q_q_]

It would be interesting to know Where DWI (the author of the thread) got the idea to say "look at these chassidim in action"..

somebody is misinforming him.

neturei karta are indeed a small group of chassidim, but it is like saying "look at these religious jews in action"..

They are neturei karta.. I would advise learning the name at least!

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

"neturei karta are indeed a small group of chassidim"

 They aren't Chassidim, nor do they claim to be. They say they are mitnagdim.

[q_q_]

"neturei karta are indeed a small group of chassidim"

 They aren't Chassidim, nor do they claim to be. They say they are mitnagdim.

Out of interest, where did you hear them say they were misnagdim(i.e. follow the vilna gaon not the baal shem tov), can you link me to the article or video?


picture of rabbi beck - see the shtreimel
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/f/f1/Rabbispeech.jpg

one associates shtreimels with chassidim..

But  you are right -they are not Chassidim..

I heard they had broken off from satmar, but that was wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta
The Neturei Karta synagogues follow the customs of the Gaon of Vilna, due to Neturei Karta's origin within the Lithuanian rather than Chasidic branch of ultra-Orthodox Judaism. It must be stressed that Neturei Karta is not a Hasidic but a Litvish group, they are often mistaken for Hasidim because their style of dress (including a shtreimel on Shabbos) is very similar to that of Hasidim. This style of dress is not unique to Neturei Karta, but is also the style of other Jerusalem Litvaks, such as Rabbi Yosef Sholom Eliashiv and his followers. Furthermore, Shomer Emunim a Hasidic group but with similar ideology, is often bundled together with Neturei Karta. Typically, the Jerusalem Neturei Karta will keep the customs of the "Old Yishuv" of the city of Jerusalem even when living outside of Jerusalem or even when living abroad, as a demonstration of love and connection to the Holy Land.


They have strong allies in satmar, and a rift because of their more controversial positions, or rather, shenanigans..

"Among their allies were the Edah HaChareidis, including the large and affluent Hasidic group Satmar, under the leadership of Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum, formerly of Hungary
..
 On Thursday, 21 December, the Edah HaChareidis rabbinical council of Jerusalem also released a statement calling on the public to distance itself from those who went to Iran. The Edah's statement followed, in major lines, the Satmar statement released a few days earlier "

[DownwithIslam]

I did not mean that all chasidim are like this. Nobody should of been concerned. For one, we all know that Lubavitcher Chasidim are wonderful people who are kahanists and I love them so you know I did not mean that all chasidim are bad. Now I do think that all of Satmar is bad and I know that their are a few others that are vile but I wont go into that now.

[q_q_]

you may want to reedit the subject of your opening post then. Oddly, you didn't, so Shlomo did. But then since the forum has gone down and come back.. It has lost the changes.. Gone back to how it was. So maybe you should change it "back".  To Neturei Karta instead of Chassidim.

Lubavitch are not kahanists or even zionists. They are non zionists. But they are pro fighting the arabs. And against giving away land. 

I spoke to one Anti-Zionist, who was pro fighting arab terrorism, and against giving away land. And was disgusted by the israeli government's weakness..
I asked him why as an anti-zionist, he didn't support the neturei karta position to pray for the peaceful dismantlement of the state. He said. If it was possible for jews to leave, then he would support it , but jews are trapped there. If they left, the arabs would pounce on them. And of course they aren't leaving anyway.  And as an anti-zionist, he , like satmar, and like neturei karta, doesn't think we should have any government there, religious or secular.

It's only neturei karta who are pro the enemy..  And neturei karta are not even chassidim. As Tzvi pointed out..  Though their clothing is similar.

[TruthSpreader]

This is treason. They aren't "real" Jews.

[דוד בן זאב אריה]

This is Lshon harah