66 years ago from this time - operation Barbarossa -

[DALMACIJA]

Russia colonized its north western territory which was a land of Fino-Ugric people, baltic people, and Swedes. It also russified the indigenous population in Siberia. It also colonized  all of the the non-russian republics, that's why a huge chunk of the population in Kazakhstan and in the Baltic states are ethnix russian.

This is a Western exaggeration. Orthodox nations should be connected to Russia.
You do not mention that Russia once occupied parts of Poland's territory and other countries. What happened do those lands?
Well every nation wants to commit territorial expansion.
Some nations are more fanatical in that some less.
The same Western propaganda is pronouncing that the Serbs are genocidal and equal in every way to the Nazis. Well, the real Nazis originate from the West and not from the East. Through propaganda the West wants to equal the East with it's self. To accomplish that they are marking the Serbs as Nazis and Russia as a colonial empire.

Nazism and colonialism are not on responcibility of the Orthodox nations.

During the days of the Czars, which account for most of the Imperialist russian history- all religion  other than the russian orthodox were persecuted. Jews were persecuted in particular and a great effort was made to russify the non russian orthodox population. This policy continued during the communist time, except that the russian orthodox religions had been supplanted by the marxist-socialist cult.

The Orthodox nations had not the same attitude towards the Jews like the Catholic nations had.

You can't claim that due to communism russia was actually occupied by foreigners. Russia dominated the USSR (even though Stalin was Georgian), the russian language and culture were forced and taught as the only legitimate ones.

Russia dominated the USSR because the Russians were the majority of the ex USSR.
But this majority was not practicing Ortodoxism but the communist theory which has its roots comming from the West. Remember Marxism was not invented by Orthodox nations. During the existence of communism in Russia a huge crime was committed against the Orthodox population of the USSR.

During the red revolution in Russia, the communists had killed about 30 million of the Orthodox Russians, and until the collapse of communism in 1989 55-60 million.
In 1918 the communists killed about 1.500 members of the Russian tzar family of Romanovs, who had ruled over Russia for more than 300 years – they killed everyone who was in any family relation to them. In Russia the communists killed 130.000 Orthodox clergymen and two Moscow patriarchs, pulled down about 60.000 Orthodox churches, monasteries and other sacral buildings.

The same crimes were committed against the Serbs on the territory of former Yugoslavia. Coincidence ? ? ? ?

This actions were not prepared, organized or conducted by the domestic nation of Russia. Who had carried out the red revolution in Russia? Which organization stands behind the establishment of the communist rule in Russia? The majority of the heads of the communist movement who launched communism on Russian/ Serbian soil were non- Serbs/ non-Russians.

Russia is an evil genocidal nation and has been so since Ivan Grozny. 

This is not based on facts but on your own opinion.

I as a Serb strongly disagree with this kind of statements!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Russia is our second land. We, the Serbs, see  Russians as our brothers by blood and religion. We love Russia!

But the West and America are not genocidal nations? That's strange.
In Russia there was genocide carried out. This genocide was conducted against the Orthodox population of Russia. That's the only genocide which took place in Russia.

In contradiction to the real colonial nations (America & Western Europe), the Orthodox nations did not have committed the biological extermination of people.
What happened to the natives in North America, South America, Australia and in New Zealand was real colonialism. The same colonial powers are today occupying Serbian lands and have colonial intentions against Serbia/ Russia.

[Zelhar]

This is a Western exaggeration. Orthodox nations should be connected to Russia.
You do not mention that Russia once occupied parts of Poland's territory and other countries. What happened do those lands?
Well every nation wants to commit territorial expansion.
Some nations are more fanatical in that some less.
The same Western propaganda is pronouncing that the Serbs are genocidal and equal in every way to the Nazis. Well, the real Nazis originate from the West and not from the East. Through propaganda the West wants to equal the East with it's self. To accomplish that they are marking the Serbs as Nazis and Russia as a colonial empire.

I speak for my self and not for the west. There is a huge difference between the Serbs and the Russians even though they are so close to each other. Siberia is a territory acquired by colonization, just like Australia and Canada. I don't think the natives in Siberia were better off than the Aboriginals of Australia or the Native Americans.

As you well know Petrograd and its surrounding had been acquired by war of aggression against Sweden, and Swedish POWs turned slaves were forced to dry the flood lands and build the new capital- at the cost of their lives.

As for poland- Russia had cruelly occupied most of Poland for 200 years. After wwII the eastern part of poland was annexed to USSR (and in turn east Prussia (a smaller territory which had been German for hundreds of years) was annexed to Poland).

The Orthodox nations had not the same attitude towards the Jews like the Catholic nations had.

That's pure rubbish. Russia had been the cruelest and most anti-Jewish nation in the world since Spain had deported its Jews and until the Nazis came to power. After the Nazis had been defeated Russia regained the title.

While the Jews in the Arab world at list got the chance to flee, the Jews in USSR were held by force, their religion was outlawed and they were forcefully Russified even while undergoing discriminations and persecutions.

Russia dominated the USSR because the Russians were the majority of the ex USSR.
But this majority was not practicing Ortodoxism but the communist theory which has its roots comming from the West. Remember Marxism was not invented by Orthodox nations. During the existence of communism in Russia a huge crime was committed against the Orthodox population of the USSR.

During the red revolution in Russia, the communists had killed about 30 million of the Orthodox Russians, and until the collapse of communism in 1989 55-60 million.
In 1918 the communists killed about 1.500 members of the Russian tzar family of Romanovs, who had ruled over Russia for more than 300 years – they killed everyone who was in any family relation to them. In Russia the communists killed 130.000 Orthodox clergymen and two Moscow patriarchs, pulled down about 60.000 Orthodox churches, monasteries and other sacral buildings.

The same crimes were committed against the Serbs on the territory of former Yugoslavia. Coincidence ? ? ? ?

This actions were not prepared, organized or conducted by the domestic nation of Russia. Who had carried out the red revolution in Russia? Which organization stands behind the establishment of the communist rule in Russia? The majority of the heads of the communist movement who launched communism on Russian/ Serbian soil were non- Serbs/ non-Russians.

My problem is with the Russia's antisemitic and genocidal policies, I don't care if they were committed in the name of the Church of Orthodox or the Church of Marxism. In either case the perpetrator was Russia. Sure they were also cruel to themselves, that's just show how evil the Russian empire had remained when it changed its name to USSR and change its official religion to Marxism. It is a continuation of the old policy of exterminating everything that disagrees with the official state religion and culture. So this time the church was on the wrong side, well too bad for them.

This is not based on facts but on your own opinion.

I as a Serb strongly disagree with this kind of statements!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Russia is our second land. We, the Serbs, see  Russians as our brothers by blood and religion. We love Russia!

But the West and America are not genocidal nations? That's strange.
In Russia there was genocide carried out. This genocide was conducted against the Orthodox population of Russia. That's the only genocide which took place in Russia.

In contradiction to the real colonial nations (America & Western Europe), the Orthodox nations did not have committed the biological extermination of people.
What happened to the natives in North America, South America, Australia and in New Zealand was real colonialism. The same colonial powers are today occupying Serbian lands and have colonial intentions against Serbia/ Russia.

Russia has committed many genocides. They murdered more soviet citizens then the Nazis. They crated famine in the Ukraine killing millions of ethnic Ukrainians. They shifted whole populations between territories, again causing the death of millions by famine. They executed entire classes of populations like the nobility and the free peasants. They sent yet more millions to forced labor in Siberia again purposely causing the death of the slaves due to exposure to the elements, illness and exhaustion (This was Czarist policy which the USSR then continued).

Finally, Dlamacija, you may think that I am attacking the Orthodox faith, which i am not. The fact of the matter is that the Russian ruling establishment, to which the Russian Church belongs save for the 70 years of Marxist rule, is very evil.

[DALMACIJA]

I speak for my self and not for the west. There is a huge difference between the Serbs and the Russians even though they are so close to each other. Siberia is a territory acquired by colonization, just like Australia and Canada. I don't think the natives in Siberia were better off than the Aboriginals of Australia or the Native Americans.

This is not serious anymore.
"Siberia is a territory acquired by colonization, just like Australia and Canada."
You are starting with a lie.
You say that you think, that means that you are not sure. I will tell you that the people of Siberia were not biological exterminated in contradiction to the natives of North, Middle and South America, Australia and New Sealand.

Since the existence of new age Siberia was always been Russian territory.
How can Russia colonize it's own land? When was Siberia not Russian territory?
I do not remember when Siberia was not Russian? Who had ruled with Siberia before Russia, maybe America? You probably think that Russia should hand over Siberia to America? This is not the right way of thinking.

Tell me when will America give Alaska back to Russia?
The Americans were taking advantage of the year of hunger in Russia.
Using Russia's hard circumstances to seal Alaska?

What about New Mexico? Was that always been American soil?

That's pure rubbish. Russia had been the cruelest and most anti-Jewish nation in the world since Spain had deported its Jews and until the Nazis came to power. After the Nazis had been defeated Russia regained the title.

Why would the Russians want to be cruel to the Jews? It does not make sense.
Orthodoxism always condemned anti-Semitism. I am Orthodox just like a Russian. To me is always told that anti-Semitism has it's roots outside the Church.
Do you know how many Jews lived in Russia? I have said several times on this forum if individuals had committed crimes against Jews that is not on the responsibility of Russia's government or Church. Russia's government and the Orthodox church never had any programs of extermination against the Jews. Do not blame the Orthodox church for the crimes committed by some groups who were out of any control.

Nobody has the right to attack civilians. It does not mean if they are Jewish, Muslim, Catholic or something else. I condemn all kinds of prosecutions against innocent civilians. But crimes committed by groups which are out of control are not always on the responsibility of the government.

My problem is with the Russia's antisemitic and genocidal policies, I don't care if they were committed in the name of the Church of Orthodox or the Church of Marxism. In either case the perpetrator was Russia. Sure they were also cruel to themselves, that's just show how evil the Russian empire had remained when it changed its name to USSR and change its official religion to Marxism. It is a continuation of the old policy of exterminating everything that disagrees with the official state religion and culture. So this time the church was on the wrong side, well too bad for them.

If you are saying that the Orthodox church has/had some kind of anti-Semetic programs, than you are lying again!

You are not aware of the fact that Russia was controlled by an anti-Russian/ anti-Orthodox regime after 1917. Those anti-Semitic actions were carried out during the period of 1917 to 1988. Be informed that the Orthodox citizens of the USSR had more problems with the communist policy than the Jews. I told you already how many Orthodox Russians were killed during the communist rule. You are smart enough to know that the founders of communism in Russia were not Russians.

The communist regime which was launched in Moscow and which has it's roots coming from he West was not only cruel to the Jews. It's policy was more evil towards Orthodoxism.

It is a continuation of the old policy of exterminating everything that disagrees with the official state religion and culture.

What happends with people who raise up the question regarding the US occupation of New Mexico?

Russia has committed many genocides. They murdered more soviet citizens then the Nazis. They crated famine in the Ukraine killing millions of ethnic Ukrainians. They shifted whole populations between territories, again causing the death of millions by famine. They executed entire classes of populations like the nobility and the free peasants. They sent yet more millions to forced labor in Siberia again purposely causing the death of the slaves due to exposure to the elements, illness and exhaustion (This was Czarist policy which the USSR then continued).

The Tzar was had not that kind of policy towards the Russians or anybody.
That's again a lie. The Tzar used communist methods I never heard something like that.
You must know who launched communism on Russian/ Serbian soil than you will be able to understand this situation.

Finally, Dlamacija, you may think that I am attacking the Orthodox faith, which i am not. The fact of the matter is that the Russian ruling establishment, to which the Russian Church belongs save for the 70 years of Marxist rule, is very evil.

Orthodoxism = Marxism?
Nobody will believe those lies in Russia/ Serbia.
You are just being very rude and disrespectfull towards the Orthodox nations!


PS:
How many Russian gave their lives in the battle against Hitlers fascism?
With out the Russian anti-Fascist actions Hitler would probarly become victorious.

[Saint Sava]

I believe Hitler's plan to colonise the East (Russia) and to eliminate al Russians, was a satanic plan.
By that, he killed not only the Slavic people, but also his own German people.
He destroyed the English empire and so on.
Result: the West is now being invaded by Third World immigrants, since the "decolonisation".
And the White Race, or Caucasians are becoming a minority even in their homecontinent!

Nice   Thank you so much adolf 

You should better thank Henry Ford and his powerful fellow american industrials who raised a plan to reign on Planet Earth by making the two most economic powerful competitors at that time (Germany and USSR) fight to death, and at the end eliminate them easily from the run, put feets outside the American continent, occupy Europe and some other stragegic places, and dictate their view. I warmly recommend Anthony Sutton "Wall Stret and the rise of Hitler" which can be found on the net.

In this story, they first started to be deeply disappointed as Hitler and Staline started with an agreement. Then Churchill frightened to death by the idea that Hitler could invade UK, provoked clashes in ... yugoslavia for making German forces stay far away from UK. Ans as you all know, Serbs paid the huge price. Before WW2 Serbia which is more or less as big as England, had the same number of population, around 8 million. Today England has roughly 40milion inhabitants while Serbia still has got around 8million people.

[Saint Sava]

And I think that re-colonising Africa, and S-America, Asia, is a good idea too.

Why do you want to invade something that isen't yours? I can't really understand why should territories such as those be recolonized. I prefer leaving them alone to establish their rules and way of life, instead provoking endless numbers of wars like in Africa where declonizators have torn appart members of the same tribe in sepparate "countries" and/or united rival tribes (like in Rwanda) in the same "country".

[Saint Sava]

Russia is the most successful colonial empire ever. How do you think it got so large?

They united in a FEDERATION, which is still the case. Russia gives big political autonomy to its regions. Did you also know that in far Eastern Russia there's a Jewish russian autonomous province?

[Saint Sava]

I just came back from my vacation on French Riviera and the majority of hotel workers are from Muslim countries! On the street other tourists were warned us to keep our purses close to us because there are too many mugging! Never go alone out at the street! Tourists are not feeling very save over there because of the Arabics, but the prices are sky high all over the French Riviera!

I bet you were in Nice, right? 

[DALMACIJA]

Russia is the most successful colonial empire ever. How do you think it got so large?

They united in a FEDERATION, which is still the case. Russia gives big political autonomy to its regions. Did you also know that in far Eastern Russia there's a Jewish russian autonomous province?

Exactly...

[DALMACIJA]

Then Churchill frightened to death by the idea that Hitler could invade UK, provoked clashes in ... yugoslavia for making German forces stay far away from UK. Ans as you all know, Serbs paid the huge price. Before WW2 Serbia which is more or less as big as England, had the same number of population, around 8 million. Today England has roughly 40milion inhabitants while Serbia still has got around 8million people.

Correct..

[Hail Columbia]

Russia is the most successful colonial empire ever. How do you think it got so large?

They united in a FEDERATION, which is still the case. Russia gives big political autonomy to its regions. Did you also know that in far Eastern Russia there's a Jewish russian autonomous province?

Stalin created the "Jewish Autonomous Oblast" as a means of forcing Soviet Jews to remain in the Soviet Union.  He declared it to be the only legitimate homeland for the Jewish people, and used his invention as a means of delegitimizing Soviet Jews who demanded the right to live in the land of Israel.  Today, Jews make up less than 2% of the oblast's population.

[DALMACIJA]

Stalin created the "Jewish Autonomous Oblast" as a means of forcing Soviet Jews to remain in the Soviet Union.  He declared it to be the only legitimate homeland for the Jewish people, and used his invention as a means of delegitimizing Soviet Jews who demanded the right to live in the land of Israel.  Today, Jews make up less than 2% of the oblast's population.

Only sick communist minds will do something like that..

[Zelhar]

Dalmacija I am not going to post a long and full answer since you accuse me of lying while you seem to have a problem understanding my points.

i used the phrase 'I think' since i didn't ask the natives what they think, though my guess is that the natives Americans like living in America more than the natives of Siberia in Russia.

Siberia has been colonized by Russia just. It had been occupied by natives, and part of it also by China and the Mongols. By the way America bought Alaska fair and square, while Russia acquired its far east from china and Japan by war and aggressive diplomacy.

The natives of north America and Australia were robbed from the ancestral lands, they were not exterminated by violence. They native in both the Americas died in their millions from old world diseases to which they were not immune.

Why would the Russians want to be cruel to the Jews? It does not make sense.

Why would the Germans want to be cruel to the Jews? It makes even less sense to me yet they were.

If you are saying that the Orthodox church has/had some kind of anti-Semetic programs, than you are lying again!

I am saying the the Russian Orthodox church had promoted antisemitism, this was their official policy.

Just for your knowledge, the reason that millions of Jews resided in Russia is due to its Expansion to the west. The Jews had been living in parts of Belarus, Lithuania, the Ukraine and Poland before they were annexed by Russia. Meanwhile Jews were barred from living Russia, and when Russia annexed territories with large Jewish population, the Jews were only allowed to reside in "the pale of settlement", they could not live in Russia proper.

So Russia had in fact been antisemitic even before it had any Jewish population. I do not know much about the Orthodox faith, judging from the Serbs I see it does necessarily promotes antisemitism. However the Russian church did. Orthodoxy was the official religion of Russia (and Moskva is the new Rome), non orthodox were severely discriminated and the Church had supported this policy. 

The official policy of Russian education since 1833 had been: "Orthodoxy, Autocracy, and Nationality", this is a quote from wikipedia, yet I know it to be true:
"The Chief Procurator of the Holy Synod and the tsar's mentor, friend, and adviser Konstantin Pobedonostsev was reported as saying that one-third of Russia's Jews was expected to emigrate, one-third to accept baptism, and one-third to starve.[3] The repressive legislation was repeatedly revised. Many historians noted the concurrence of these state-enforced antisemitic policies with waves of pogroms[4] that continued until 1884, with at least tacit government knowledge and in some cases policemen were seen inciting or joining the mob."

[DALMACIJA]

Shalom Zelhar,

I apologize if I gave you the feeling that I was calling you a liar.
Maybe you have different information than I.
Lying some times  and being are liar are not the same.
I do not agree if you say that the Orthodox church/ nations had the same attitude towards the Jews just like the Vatican.  I also do not agree with the lie that the Ortodox Church has an anti_Semitic policy..

The Orthodox faith is the same in Russia as in Serbia.
We believe that al people are our brothers. We are all descants of Adam!
But it is a fact that a Jewish woman gave birth to Jesus and that the apostles, the  founders of our church, were Jews. That’s why we respect the Jews. That is one of the programs of the Orthodox church. To us is always told that anti-Semitism is wrong and has its roots out side the Orthodox church.

We Orthodox Christians do not blame the Jews for the crusefiction of Jesus.
Jesus’s density was to die on the cross for the sins of the humans. It does not matter who killed him the Romanians or Jews. Just before Jesus died on the cross he said Father, Father forgive them they do not know what they are doing.

We believe that the role of the Jews is today also important.
In the oldd testament the Jews are the  chosen nation and G-d did not removed The Tanach completely.  So, the connection between the Jews and G-d is not removed.
But because of the New Testament G-d is not only uncovering its teaching to the Jews, like in the days of The Tanach, but also to the non-Jews.

So anti-Semitism has no place in the Orthodox communities.
If an   Orthodox priest sympathize Anti-Semitism than he is not longer teaching Orthodoxism. But priests are also humans, they can make mistakes. But our religion Orthodoxism is not teaching us to attack the Jews. 

[Zelhar]

More on this subject: http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/jewish_1.html

[Zelhar]

And I don't claim that Orthodoxy teaches antisemitism.

[DALMACIJA]

And I don't claim that Orthodoxy teaches antisemitism.

You said that it is an evil religion and that it has anti-Semitism in its policy ! ! !
You compared it also  with Marxism! That’s an insult toward us..

Be informed that the Vatican likes to exaggerate about this kind of accusation againast Orthodox Russia. 

Believe me, if some forces want for example to destroy the Jewish state of Israel or the Jews, living in it, Russia wouldnot be happy with that kind of policy. You cab say what you want against Russia but it won’t support such things…

You also must understand that when Lenin gained power in Russia, russia was not Orthodox any more. We Serbs are also not saying that the Russians are guilty for the establishment of the communist rule in Yugoslavia. We know that also the heads of the Yugoslavian communist movement were not Orthodox.

[Jasmina]

  In the time of Communism one was not aloud to be religious! I've lived that times! 

[DALMACIJA]

  In the time of Communism one was not aloud to be religious! I've lived that times! 

Especially Orthodoxism.
They only pulled down our churches.

Croats and Muslims had not much problems as we the Orthodox people had.

[Zelhar]

You consistently misunderstand me. I have nothing against Orthodoxy and I accuse it of nothing. I don't know much about this religion and frankly don't care much as long as they don't try to force or deceive people into their faith.

I accused: 1. Russia as a state and a nation which did promote antisemitism.
2. The Russian Church, that is- the establishment, its leadership the synod, since it supported the antisemitic policies of the Czars, and it promoted it (for example by preaching against Jews and by distributing the "Protocols of The Elders of Zion".

I believe you when you say that your religion is peaceful toward other religions never have I called your religion antisemitic,  there is a difference between the religion as a faith and an abstract idea, and the people who supposedly follow its teaching.

And regarding communism (in USSR)- They were anti-religious, yet the were mostly ethnic Russians, virtually all of them belong culturally to Russia, the Jews and other minorities were educated in Russia, they intermarried with Russians and they didn't acted on behalf of the minority where they originated.

Unless you say a true Russian must be an observant Orthodox in which case our discussion is reduced to terminology.

[Jasmina]

  My opinion is that during the communism people were not aloud to practice their religion and furthermore in churches instead of Preasts were spies who were telling to the Authorities who is comming to churches because that practice was not aloud and the Authorities were using those kind of informations against the religious people! So during the Communism was easier NOT to practice your religion!
  Nowadays people turn more to their religion!

[Zelhar]

  My opinion is that during the communism people were not aloud to practice their religion and furthermore in churches instead of Preasts were spies who were telling to the Authorities who is comming to churches because that practice was not aloud and the Authorities were using those kind of informations against the religious people! So during the Communism was easier NOT to practice your religion!
  Nowadays people turn more to their religion!

I don't disagree with that. I said the communist still tried to Russify the non-Russians. The ethnic Russians may have become atheist or just secretly Orthodox, yet they remained Russians. While Jews were forbidden from learning anything of their heritage or their religion, they didn't understand anything about being a Jew. So they lost their Jewish identity, they assimilated.

[Hail Columbia]

In the time of Communism one was not aloud to be religious! I've lived that times! 

A classmate of mine is from Ukraine and she said that in the Soviet Union, no one could get married in a church.  Also, I have heard that the Soviet authorities seriously considered demolishing St. Basil's Cathedral.

[Jasmina]

  My opinion is that during the communism people were not aloud to practice their religion and furthermore in churches instead of Preasts were spies who were telling to the Authorities who is comming to churches because that practice was not aloud and the Authorities were using those kind of informations against the religious people! So during the Communism was easier NOT to practice your religion!
  Nowadays people turn more to their religion!

I don't disagree with that. I said the communist still tried to Russify the non-Russians. The ethnic Russians may have become atheist or just secretly Orthodox, yet they remained Russians. While Jews were forbidden from learning anything of their heritage or their religion, they didn't understand anything about being a Jew. So they lost their Jewish identity, they assimilated.

  I understand that, but what does it have to do with the Othodoxy? The main religion in Russia and Serbia?

[Zelhar]

Nothing

[Nikola1389]

north american natives cought the disise exedentaly?hahahah,thats just like saying,jews were in hitlers gas chambers by exident....71mil or more indians killed..........the whole american culture and influence wiped off the earth......