Author Topic: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?  (Read 10123 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline cs777

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« on: September 04, 2006, 05:29:34 PM »
Well, I'm writing this to see what you're oppinions are on ex-nazi's. I have a friend of mine who was a nazi for about a year ago, but had an epiphany and has begun to take anti-fascist action. He was more or less tricked into nazism when he had a tough period in his life. And he is now seeking forgivness by acting righteous and fighting those he once tried to fit in with.

Myself I'm anti-fascist and believe in liberalism (yes, I know you're oppinions on liberalism...). But it would be nice to see what you think about it. Should I accept that he has sought forgivness and is acting as good as he possibly can to make up for what he has done? He does everything possible for repentance, and is extremely ashamed of his choise to join a fascist group. He is also religious and is afraid that God wont forgive him for what he has done.

I will show him this topic.

Do you people think that I should continue to be friend with him, or is he an enemy even though striving to do right and is fighting for Israel and the jewish people?

Thank,
cs777

wonderfulgoy

  • Guest
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2006, 05:32:59 PM »
In my humble opinion, your friend should learn a little about Judaism.  Either myself or some others here could surely recommend some great books.

He should try and reach out to a local synagogue, if possible, and take a visit, and try and make friends with some Jews.

But overall, I would say no sweat, because everyone makes mistakes.  The West *is* directly under threat by invading Third World invaders and whorish politicians.  This is a time for action, not guilt!

:)

Offline cs777

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2006, 05:44:28 PM »
He grew tired of being called "[censored] swede" by arab mobs and being constantly picked at. The reason he left the nazis was that he felt that he couldn't agree with their antisemitic oppinions.

I will try to get him to visit a local synagogue.

What books do you recomend?

wonderfulgoy

  • Guest
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2006, 06:44:24 PM »
Now I'm on the spot a bit, having to recommend books.   ;)

Well I won't name-drop.  I'll just mention a really good one.  It's called 'Everyman's Talmud' and it's by Abraham Cohen.  This answers loads of questions about the history and doctrines of Judaism, and dispels the racist myths about the Talmud into the bargain.  Seriously, once you've read this your friend will so enlightened that he will see through Nazi lies and Nazi Arab misinformation.

Another good book is 'Are the Jews a race?' by Karl Kautsky.  This book demonstrates the extreme of self-loathing among Jews.  See, Kautsky was a Marxist Jew living in Europe in the early 20th century.  Society around him hated him for being a Jew so he ended up hating himself.  He argues in favour of miscegenation and, like Marx, another self-hater, in favour of total Jewish assimilation into the surrounding gentile society.  This book is valuable because a) it is an elegant and early exposition of the 'race is mostly a social construct' fallacy and is therefore useful for academic purposes, and b) it dispels the Nazi myth that Jews promote black/white intermarriage to further Jewish interests.  In fact it proves that any Jew who wants to see black/white intermarriage is more than likely in favour of inter-faith marriages and the death of Judaism.  From this book one may psychoanalyse and discover the extreme self-loathing behind Marxism.

Finally, get a good translation of the Bible (without 'New Testament') and see if G-d speaks to you through the Scriptures.  Some here have recommended the Art Scroll/Stone Tanakh, or you could go for a Jewish Publication Society version.  The Tanakh is to literature what the sunrise is to dark desolate night.

Offline kahaneloyalist

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1959
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2006, 06:59:32 PM »
The question of forgiveness in Judaism is never easy, as we differ from Christianity in what is required to make amends for past actions. If a person sinned strictly against G-d forgiveness is easier, the sinner merely has to truly regret his past actions and not repeat the sin. If on the other hand a man sinned against his fellow, other people, forgiveness is much more difficult, for there to be true forgiveness the sinner must correct whatever he did wrong. If I was to steal I would need to return what I stole and pay a recompense varying by the nature of what I took.

In the case of your friend the main question is was he merely a member of a Neo-Nazi organization or did he harm innocent people? If it was the former I believe he could indeed be forgiven, if it was the latter he must gain forgiveness from those people he hurt before he can gain forgiveness from G-d. THough from what you have written of your friend he seems to have truly changed and begun the process of rectification for past deeds.
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

Offline cs777

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2006, 07:09:15 PM »
In the case of your friend the main question is was he merely a member of a Neo-Nazi organization or did he harm innocent people? If it was the former I believe he could indeed be forgiven, if it was the latter he must gain forgiveness from those people he hurt before he can gain forgiveness from G-d. THough from what you have written of your friend he seems to have truly changed and begun the process of rectification for past deeds.

He have never physically hurt anyone, he is quiet of himself and would never even think about hurting someone. At the time when he joined the group I gave him some space because I thought that he had to learn for himself that antisemitism is the wrong way to go. He was depressed and sought a meaning of life, was frustrated about immigration and felt that there were no light in the end of the tunnel. So he sought an explanation to the things he felt.

He has indeed truly changed. He is in the process of ordering books from jewish stores to learn more about judaism. He thinks that to correct what he has done he needs to learn what judaism truly is.

About God: he hasn't sinned against God and is deeply religious. Although he don't believe in the christian trinity.

Offline cs777

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2006, 07:11:42 PM »
Get thee hence Satan:

I will make sure to look up those books. Maybe will be of interest to me as well. Thanks.  :)

gentilerighteous

  • Guest
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2006, 08:54:21 PM »
my answer to that questoin is an unequivical concrete and absolute - NO!

Offline WHITE PRIDE

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2006, 09:08:19 PM »
If he admits he was wrong and didn't kill any Jews he should be forgiven.   Fascism and Nazism are different things, for example there were Jews in Mussolini's Fascist party

Offline MassuhDGoodName

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4542
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2006, 01:38:47 AM »
Ex-Nazi,
First, you must forgive YOURSELF.
If you forgive yourself, ask forgiveness of God, and prove with the rest of your life that you seek forgiveness from others, then I have no problem with you.
Join the JTF Forum!
These are surely "the last Days"; "...the times of troubles the likes of which have never been seen upon the Earth...".
It's a "seller's market" for every nutcase philosophy, false faith, and extremist political party; anyone with a brain is feeling more and more alienated each day; needing more than ever simply "to belong" to someone or something.
The "signs" spoken of by our prophets and sages are being lived out each day.
Don't be led astray!

Offline cs777

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2006, 05:40:26 AM »
my answer to that questoin is an unequivical concrete and absolute - NO!

How come? A human isn't perfect, you can make the wrong choises. The reason why he left the nazi-group was that he couldn't agree with the dehumanization of immigrants and jews. I am  certainly not defending that he joined such a group, but taking into account that he is eager to do something to correct the things he has done I think that it's stupid to say that he is judged to be an enemy of the jewish people forever. He is doing everything he can, he was a member of the group for about 1-3 months and then left it.

If he admits he was wrong and didn't kill any Jews he should be forgiven.   Fascism and Nazism are different things, for example there were Jews in Mussolini's Fascist party

I think so as well.

If he is proud of his heritage and against Arab Muslim Nazis, maybe he would be interested in JTF. He didn't know where else to turn to be Anti-Muslim because most Non-Muslims are self-hating.

A lot of people are Anti-Semitic until they find out about JTF.

Both me and him are from Sweden. I agree with him that muslim immigration to Europe is bad, and that you should preserve the european civilization. But do you think the JTF would allow an ex-nazi to work for them? In that case I'm sure he would be glad to be able to really do something.

Offline kahaneloyalist

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1959
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2006, 07:00:42 AM »
Quote
But do you think the JTF would allow an ex-nazi to work for them? In that case I'm sure he would be glad to be able to really do something.
If he has truly changed I think they would, back in the day the Kahane Chai party had Yaakov Jibraeli on thier party list Jibraeli had been a Arab before converting to Judaism
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

wonderfulgoy

  • Guest
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2006, 08:23:17 AM »
Ex-Nazi,
First, you must forgive YOURSELF.
If you forgive yourself, ask forgiveness of God, and prove with the rest of your life that you seek forgiveness from others, then I have no problem with you.
Join the JTF Forum!
These are surely "the last Days"; "...the times of troubles the likes of which have never been seen upon the Earth...".
It's a "seller's market" for every nutcase philosophy, false faith, and extremist political party; anyone with a brain is feeling more and more alienated each day; needing more than ever simply "to belong" to someone or something.
The "signs" spoken of by our prophets and sages are being lived out each day.
Don't be led astray!



I loved this post, MassuhDGoodName  :)

gentilerighteous

  • Guest
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2006, 04:04:53 PM »
Quote from: gentilerighteous on September 04, 2006, 05:54:21 PM
""my answer to that questoin is an unequivical concrete and absolute - NO!""


""How come? A human isn't perfect, you can make the wrong choises. The reason why he left the nazi-group was that he couldn't agree with the dehumanization of immigrants and jews. I am  certainly not defending that he joined such a group, but taking into account that he is eager to do something to correct the things he has done I think that it's stupid to say that he is judged to be an enemy of the jewish people forever. He is doing everything he can, he was a member of the group for about 1-3 months and then left it.""

How do you know this supposed ex nazi Is truly ..............an EX Naxi......... (Maybe he's just full of [censored], and looking to O D on Ex LAX, and shine and polish himself up a bit. But remains a nazi. Same thign with a Communist, Fascist, Atheist, or  Terrorist,


Hat in your hands, Cry in your beer. Sumbich cant bite no god damn more but shre as hell can still lick

-------------
"Hey Man I'm sorry"

"Who gives a rats ass?
You took shots at me, and I was trying to be a friend. My attorney are talking about that [censored] right now"


(Kris Kristofferson, Machine Gun "M. G." Kelly - "A Star is Born - 1976)

Offline cs777

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2006, 05:22:34 PM »
How do you know this supposed ex nazi Is truly ..............an EX Naxi......... (Maybe he's just full of deleted, and looking to O D on Ex LAX, and shine and polish himself up a bit. But remains a nazi. Same thign with a Communist, Fascist, Atheist, or  Terrorist,

I'm personally offended by this. I've known this guy for twelve years at least and he's probably my best friend. I know by the way he acts and talks that he is not an anti-semite. He is even wanted by the nazi group because of speaking out against anti-semitism. Does that sound 'nazi' to you?

Should he kill himself or what?

Offline cs777

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2006, 05:29:16 PM »
As a christian, I follow the doctrine that everything can be forgiven if the person truly repents. But I suppose you're looking for the Jewish view not the christian view.

I want to know what jews think about this issue, yeah.  :)

Offline kahaneloyalist

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1959
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2006, 05:40:25 PM »
dont take anything get thee hence satan says he is only on this forum to make trouble.
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

wonderfulgoy

  • Guest
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2006, 05:42:43 PM »
Should he kill himself or what?



This is exactly what the homosexual EU bureaucrats and white female supremacists (feminists) want you, as a heterosexual 'white' male, to do.

If they cannot effeminate and homosexualize and render quite hopeless the white male, they tell you to kill yourself: subtle messages in the media encourage you towards self-effacing behaviour.  Pop culture encourages you to take drugs and drink and ignore the fact that darkies are taking your women.

G-d forbid!  I'd sooner the white man went out fighting - better to die in honour than die in ignominious defeat.

The white female supremacist is using the Third World as muscle against us.  Bearing the arrival of Moshiach there is no hope.  This is a generation of no hope!  We need G-d today like we never needed Him before.

Pray ....

wonderfulgoy

  • Guest
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2006, 05:44:22 PM »
dont take anything get thee hence satan says he is only on this forum to make trouble.



Yes of course, you're right.     ::)

How did you guess?  What gave it away?

wonderfulgoy

  • Guest
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2006, 06:00:25 PM »
You may relay your message to me via private message if you like, and I should be glad to paraphrase/quote you - I don't care if they ban me.

wonderfulgoy

  • Guest
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2006, 06:03:07 PM »
Are you going to suggest that I believe on Jesus to cure my paranoid schizophrenia and utter alienation?

WHat did I say before about Christians and me in my tender moments?

And all you 'Jews' lined up to tell me that I was WRONG.

 ::)

gentilerighteous

  • Guest
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2006, 06:06:00 PM »
"white female supremacists (feminists)"

OR as  Rush Limbaugh aptly stated - The Feminzais

Can you say

HITLERY KKKLINTON

gentilerighteous

  • Guest
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2006, 06:10:46 PM »
Anybody who tells you that Jesus Christ PREACHED Turn the Other Cheek, is telling truth

Anybody who tells you Jesus Christ UNIVERSALLY Preached Turn the Other Cheek
is a god damn delusional ass  lying son of a [censored], let him step to hell.


Luke, chapter 19


"1": And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.

"2": And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.

"3": And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.

"4": And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.

"5": And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.

"6": And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.

"7": And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.

"8": And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

"9": And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

"10": For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

"11": And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

"12": He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

"13": And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

"14": But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

"15": And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

"16": Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.

"17": And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

"18": And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.

"19": And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

"20": And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:

"21": For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.

"22": And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

"23": Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

"24": And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.

"25": (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)

"26": For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

"27": But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

"28": And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.

"29": And it came to pass, when he was come nigh to Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount called the mount of Olives, he sent two of his disciples,

"30": Saying, Go ye into the village over against you; in the which at your entering ye shall find a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither.

"31": And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him.

"32": And they that were sent went their way, and found even as he had said unto them.

"33": And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt?

"34": And they said, The Lord hath need of him.

"35": And they brought him to Jesus: and they cast their garments upon the colt, and they set Jesus thereon.

"36": And as he went, they spread their clothes in the way.

"37": And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;

"38": Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.

"39": And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.

"40": And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

"41": And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,

"42": Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

"43": For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,

"44": And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

"45": And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;

"46": Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.

"47": And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,

"48": And could not find what they might do: for all the people were very attentive to hear him.




wonderfulgoy

  • Guest
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2006, 06:14:22 PM »
I fear that if I said what I wanted to say here, I would be accused of preaching the christian mesage, or "missionizing" as you call it... Strange word if you ask me...

edit: So as not to add a further off topic post to this topic, I will reply to the below post here, I will say simply that I intend to abide by this forum's rules both in public topics and in pms and therefore will not be doing what "Get thee hence Satan" has asked me to do.

edit2: Replying now to the second post following this one, I've said I'm not saying anything, as I do not wish to break the rules of this forum, so stop trying to ask. As a further note, in a few minuites time I intend to delete all of my posts in this topic, as I feel they are irrelevent.



Why delete?

I am not ungrateful, on the contrary!

Offline Serbian Cetnik (šumadinac)

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 988
    • Military Photos and Forum
Re: Ex-nazi - can you be forgiven?
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2007, 08:19:50 PM »
A quote from the serbian foreign minister regarding the holocaust.
It is our responsibility to remember as long we are alive. To forgive? We do not have the right to forgive for those that are dead and murdered.