Christian Idol Worship

[Shamgar]

Thanks CF. Much more elegant than my feeble attempt. Just as a side note. As a Baptist I don't worship pictures, crucifixes, Mary or Saints. Respect for all. No worship. Only worship G-d.

I'm not a Catholic either, but I don't think these comments were necessary.

C.F. You are right this is not necessary and Shamgar you can't also tell Catholics how they should worship their faith.

Sorry if it sounded like I was telling someone else how to worship. I meant to only state my practice. Cheers!!

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Okay

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

To be clear, it IS STRICTLY FORBIDDEN for a Jew to believe any other kind of god or any religion other than Torah Judaism.   Which we do have a number of ways of going about.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I agree with Pheasant 100% this is a movement about respecting and accepting differences in belief in uniting with one another toward common goals of righteousness.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

If we argue over our theological differences, we can never work together. We have very real differences here. Does that mean that we cannot work together? Does that mean we cannot respect each other and care about each other as fellow human beings? In JTF, we do work together, we do respect each other, and we do care about each other despite being brought up in all types of different religions.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Amen

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Sorry, but Jews should not and cannot refer to other nations as "family". This is not an insult to anyone else, but we are not family, nor are we brothers. You wanna call allies, okay, people working together for a common goal, okay, but never should Jews get the impresion of family, and brothers.

Sorry Tanach disagrees with you, dude. The whole purpose of Judaism is to be a light and example to all of the nations.

Not that it matters. It's not like I regard your opinions any more highly than Barack Hussein Obama's anyway.

 No Tannach clearly states for their to be Havdalah. In fact this week's parsha is what the theme is all about, how Jews should not get to close to other nations, and the bitter consequences of that. And light unto nations is not an argument, no one is talking about light unto nations, infact Rabbi Kahane and Hazal taught the exact opposite, only through Havdalah will we be a light unto the nations (he wrote a whole chapter in Ore Harayon on Havdalah).
 Even noahides we do not call our brothers, their is a different level in Ger Toshav, but that is another discussion. And just because someone is not our brother it does not mean that they should necessarily be disrespected, or whatever, BUT no Jew should fall into the trapp of being too close to other nations and getting this false impression of "One World One unity".

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

infact Rabbi Kahane and Hazal taught the exact opposite

Citations please. We need a better source than what your hero Guzzy says at his puppy mill.

BUT no Jew should fall into the trapp of being too close to other nations and getting this false impression of "One World One unity".

Chaim, here you see it for your own eyes. He is likening JTF to New World Order globalism. Please ban this individual.

[q_q_]

jews are a family.

but just as a person can care for people outside his family, so too jews can care about gentiles, particularly and very obviously, righteous gentiles.

So this is not something CF should get upset about.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

infact Rabbi Kahane and Hazal taught the exact opposite

Citations please. We need a better source than what your hero Guzzy says at his puppy mill.

BUT no Jew should fall into the trapp of being too close to other nations and getting this false impression of "One World One unity".

Chaim, here you see it for your own eyes. He is likening JTF to New World Order globalism. Please ban this individual.

I don't think that's what he meant.   It is an important concept to remain separated from the nations to a degree, Chaim also talks about this in his latest English video.   I think Tzvi is arguing over technicality, as to what word is appropriate and what word isn't, but the bottom line is we are allies in this movement towards common goals.  So if he doesn't want us to use the word "brother" ok I understand that.  The Jews ARE a separate nation.  We all know that.   But that doesn't change anything about what we're doing here.   Yes, the Jews are not to DEPEND on the other nations, or look at them as a crutch etc, but we are not forbidden to work together towards righteous goals.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

infact Rabbi Kahane and Hazal taught the exact opposite

Citations please. We need a better source than what your hero Guzzy says at his puppy mill.

BUT no Jew should fall into the trapp of being too close to other nations and getting this false impression of "One World One unity".

Chaim, here you see it for your own eyes. He is likening JTF to New World Order globalism. Please ban this individual.

 Shut up, I didn't say that, I was referring to what you were saying how everyone is everyone els's brother, etc (something that is NWO type thinking, and is agains't the Tannach and Rav Kahane who is agains't assimilation and for Havdalah.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

infact Rabbi Kahane and Hazal taught the exact opposite

Citations please.

 " Or Harayon" "The Jewish Idea"

 The WHOLE Chapter named Havdalah" -Seperation. Also found and mixed in other chapters, for example why Jews should live in Israel and that the land is a place of Havdalah.

[q_q_]

there is a classic comment from a modern day rabbi, that all jews should pay attention to.

If We(jews) do not make havdalah(separation), then the goyim will do it for us.

It is so true..
We know what that means.
We saw that during the time of the holocaust, which occurred once jews had become very very assimilated.

[Manch]

I liked Pheasant answer the most! I am not offended by any Christian beliefs. Heck, I wasn't even offended by Ann Coulter interview with Donny Deutch. But I don't think that the nature of this forum is appropriate for this type of discussions. If you are interested in a Jewish point of view, there is an Outreach Judaism series of lectures http://outreachjudaism.org/?clientid=1305 .

It makes no difference to me what your religion is or whether you believe at all - we are here to unite against a common enemy and we should have love for one another.

[q_q_]

The only context of jews dealing with christianity itself, is for anti missionary purposes only.

Purely for that.

Manch, I have no idea why you advertise an anti missionary site  in a thread about christianity.  Jewish anti missionary sites are for jews, not christians . 

[Shamgar]

Sorry that I started this thread. Know better now.

[Lisa]

I think we'll all have to agree to disagree when it comes theology.  So don't make me lock this thread. 

[Shamgar]

Agreed.

[Rubystars]

Incompatibility of faith shouldn't be a detriment to non-religious cooperation. I am against attempts to create artificial unification of religions. There are many such attempts that are supposed to bring together the Abrahamic religions, including Islam.

I have no problem to cooperate with Buddhists who might be idol worshipers but are pacifists. There is no way I can reach understanding with Islam even if they have a more similar concept of G-d.

I know that I am getting very nitpicky and technical, but I do not think Buddhists actually worship their icons. Buddhism is not a polytheism. Depending on the variety (Therevada, Mahayana, or Zen), Buddhism is either somewhat pantheistic, monotheistic, or even atheistic.

As a Christian, I do not think Buddhism is a true religion (I would call it very lovely human philosophy, but nothing more), but let's not mischaracterize them either.

Buddhists sometimes make offerings to their icons. I read a story about one kosher restaurant losing its certification because a buddhist working in the kitchen was splashing alcohol as an offering to a buddha. Also some of them pat Buddha's belly for luck.

[Manch]

The only context of jews dealing with christianity itself, is for anti missionary purposes only.

Purely for that.

Manch, I have no idea why you advertise an anti missionary site  in a thread about christianity.  Jewish anti missionary sites are for jews, not christians . 

I did not advertise the anti-missionary website, I simply provided a relevant to the thread link that both Christian and Jews, who are interested in this subject, can explore so that they can take this discussion elsewhere. I've listened to the lectures and I know that a great deal, sometimes majority, of the audience are Christian who are interested in the subject. I don't think it was inappropriate, however, if admins disagree, I would support removing my reply from the thread.
Regards,
Manch

PS Please capitalize Christian, Jews, Christianity, Judaism - this is an accepted form.

[mord]

jews are a family.

but just as a person can care for people outside his family, so too jews can care about gentiles, particularly and very obviously, righteous gentiles.

So this is not something CF should get upset about.

I'm not a family member to evil leftists Jews many of them hate Israel,i feel closer to my Christian friends who have morals and  love Israel ,where as the leftist Jews are not my family. BTW leftist Jews worship   idols all the leading leftists they look upon like their G-DS

[Zelhar]

Incompatibility of faith shouldn't be a detriment to non-religious cooperation. I am against attempts to create artificial unification of religions. There are many such attempts that are supposed to bring together the Abrahamic religions, including Islam.

I have no problem to cooperate with Buddhists who might be idol worshipers but are pacifists. There is no way I can reach understanding with Islam even if they have a more similar concept of G-d.

I know that I am getting very nitpicky and technical, but I do not think Buddhists actually worship their icons. Buddhism is not a polytheism. Depending on the variety (Therevada, Mahayana, or Zen), Buddhism is either somewhat pantheistic, monotheistic, or even atheistic.

As a Christian, I do not think Buddhism is a true religion (I would call it very lovely human philosophy, but nothing more), but let's not mischaracterize them either.

Buddhists sometimes make offerings to their icons. I read a story about one kosher restaurant losing its certification because a buddhist working in the kitchen was splashing alcohol as an offering to a buddha. Also some of them pat Buddha's belly for luck.

That's what i meant also. I don't know what Buddhism has to say about it, but in reality the Buddhists worship Buddha as a god, and sometimes also their Gurus or Lamas. And they are allowed to worship any other deity. I know it is also a philosophy and sometimes Buddhists say that one can be an X and a Buddhist at the same time. But it is not compatible with monotheism in my opinion since Buddhism at list allow the belief and worship of other deities, which is strictly barred at list according to Judaism and probably by any monotheistic religion.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

That's what i meant also. I don't know what Buddhism has to say about it, but in reality the Buddhists worship Buddha as a G-d, and sometimes also their Gurus or Lamas. And they are allowed to worship any other deity. I know it is also a philosophy and sometimes Buddhists say that one can be an X and a Buddhist at the same time. But it is not compatible with monotheism in my opinion since Buddhism at list allow the belief and worship of other deities, which is strictly barred at list according to Judaism and probably by any monotheistic religion.

It is probably the Mahayana (Chinese) Buddhists that you are thinking of. They are the ones most likely to view Buddha as a g-d. Therevada Buddhists believe that everything is G-d or that G-d is an omnipresent life force and that Siddhartha was only a great teacher (if I recall correctly) and Zens don't really believe in the existence of any deity and that Buddha was just a great man who showed us the way to inner peace.

[~Hanna~]

 

jews are a family.

but just as a person can care for people outside his family, so too jews can care about gentiles, particularly and very obviously, righteous gentiles.

So this is not something CF should get upset about.

I'm not a family member to evil leftists Jews many of them hate Israel,i feel closer to my Christian friends who have morals and  love Israel ,where as the leftist Jews are not my family. BTW leftist Jews worship   idols all the leading leftists they look upon like their G-DS

[Rubystars]

I'm not a family member to evil leftists Jews many of them hate Israel,i feel closer to my Christian friends who have morals and  love Israel ,where as the leftist Jews are not my family. BTW leftist Jews worship   idols all the leading leftists they look upon like their G-DS

Interesting points. By the way, congratulations on achieving nearly 9000 posts!