Great arguement on PW over Israel

[Crusader]

'Jews are a people'


Are western jews the same race as black jews or even jewish converts?

[MarZutra]

I know there was an Israel/judea (although didn't Judea survive for longer than israel?). To answer this question you might wish to do a google search on the Assyrian Empire and its invasion of Israel.But that was in ancient history, to commit the grevious wrong which was comitted in 1948 based upon ancient hisotry is unfair i think. So it is unfair to take back something that is rightfully yours?  Hypathetically speaking, for point of arguement.  Say the White Americans were the origional inabitants of America and were conquered by "Yellow" or "Brown" Americans who, comparable to the Mongols, came via land route from Asia.  If today the Americans came and took back their lands, would it be wrong?  Or would they hold both a historical and a moral right to their lands?There were others in the land in ancient history too, not just Jews. Yes, this is true but Jews were the overwhelming majority and it was a Jewish Nation for about 2000 or more years.there were also people living there prior to judaism itself. Jebus was captured by the Jews, so would you agree to it being handed over to people who claim descendancy from its inhabitants? Yes and no.  Of course you are going back to pre-Abrahamic and Iron age times.  While later the inhabitants of the land of Caanan largely adopted and warred with (if the documentation within the earliest books of the Bible hold truth) those of the Abrahamic tribes.  

If one goes back into Greek times one does not hear any debate over the subject like Athenian control over other subjugated/vanquished city states to make the Greek Empire?  No debate over the Spartan conquest of the Pelopanese or Agamemnon's conquest of Troy: Thrace...  This debate only gets as much viewing and propaganda as it does because it happends to be A. The Jews and B. directly dealing with a Religion vs. anti-Religion agenda.

There is much evidence that dictates that by the time Joshua entered Caanan/Israel there were cultural similarities with the other peoples/tribes left over/adobted from the earlier times before the Jew/Israel left to Egyptian enslavement...  Another point of fact for your research pleasure, too related to this entire contortion of history is the term Lebanon itself finds its very first historical documentation/name within a Jewish source: The Torah as an inclusion portion/border identified to be the Land of Israel.  Therefore factually speaking the "Lebanese" are comparable in conception as the "Palestinians", "Jordanians" or "Iraqis"...  Something for you to research and think about...

[Muck DeFuslims]

Sorry, but it's impossible for Jews to steal land they own. Your refusal to acknowledge that the Jews are the indigenous people of the Land of Israel is some sort of mental disorder or a manifestation of your Jew hatred. That's your problem, and you should deal with it. The fact that the Jews are the indigenous people is based not only on 'a two thousand year old book' as you say, but by every historic and archeological record accepted by sane people. That would exclude you, as you continue to babble about a non-existent nation called 'Palestine' and a mythical people called 'Palestinians', that NEVER existed.

That's quite a double standard you maintain. According to your assinine logic the JEWS don't have a right to reclaim the Land of Israel stolen from them, but the mythical Palestinians have the right to re-establish the nation of Palestine which never existed to begin with. It's hard to imagine a more ridiculous, preposterous argument.
 
Just in case you don't know this a very large percentage of the Jews in Israel are Sephardic. They came from the myriad of artificially created Arab nations.

The fact that your argument now comes down to Israeli politicians 'look Western', just proves how weak your argument is and what an ignoramus you truly are. Maybe Israel will elect someone that looks more 'indegenous' to make you happy and stop your absurd whining. Either that or Jews will start wearing diapers on their heads and putting their women in burlap sacks so they can 'look more indigenous' to you.   

I know Shaul Mofaz 'looks' Western, but guess what ? He came from Iran.

All your whining isn't going to change the bottom line.
THE JEWISH LANDLORD HAS RETURNED. ALL ARAB SQUATTERS SHOULD BE EVICTED BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

[Crusader]

Most jews in the world today have no genetic link to the middle east, so how can they be coming home?
there was a small number of indigenous jews in Palestine prior to 1948. they have a right to be there. White settlers are just colonizing a land they have no link to except there religion was founded there. Are you suggesting as a chrisitian i have a right to invade palestine as well because christianity was founded there?

[Ulli]

Sorry, but it's impossible for Jews to steal land they own.

Great point. Nobody can steal something, what he rightfully ownes. 

[Hail Columbia]

Well the islamic golden age outshone the west for several centuries, and indeed the jewish religion fared better under islamic rule than it did under christian rule.

The "Islamic Golden Age" that you speak of only came about when the Muslims conquered the Assyrians and coöpted their civilization.  Is it any wonder that 200 years later, when the Assyrian civilization died out because enough Assyrians had either converted to Islam or submitted themselves to Islamic rule, the "Islamic Golden Age" came to an end?

[Ulli]

Well the islamic golden age outshone the west for several centuries, and indeed the jewish religion fared better under islamic rule than it did under christian rule.

The "Islamic Golden Age" that you speak of only came about when the Muslims conquered the Assyrians and coöpted their civilization.  Is it any wonder that 200 years later, when the Assyrian civilization died out because enough Assyrians had either converted to Islam or submitted themselves to Islamic rule, the "Islamic Golden Age" came to an end?

Muslims are parasites and soak the blood of the hard working people. In the past they did this with the dhimmi tax and by letting the subjected people work for them, today they soak our tax money by living on welfare and receiving foreign aid.

They are intellectual so weak, that even the arguments of the quranimal Dawa preachers against Judaism and Christianity in order to prolyterize came from the "critical theology" and the atheist leftist of the western world.

[Americanhero1]

Well the islamic golden age outshone the west for several centuries, and indeed the jewish religion fared better under islamic rule than it did under christian rule.

The "Islamic Golden Age" that you speak of only came about when the Muslims conquered the Assyrians and coöpted their civilization.  Is it any wonder that 200 years later, when the Assyrian civilization died out because enough Assyrians had either converted to Islam or submitted themselves to Islamic rule, the "Islamic Golden Age" came to an end?

Muslims are parasites and soak the blood of the hard working people. In the past they did this with the dhimmi tax and by letting the subjected people work for them, today they soak our tax money by living on welfare and receiving foreign aid.

They are intellectual so weak, that even the arguments of the quranimal Dawa preachers against Judaism and Christianity in order to prolyterize came from the "critical theology" and the atheist leftist of the western world.

Yes they are

[Muck DeFuslims]

What part of this statement don't you understand ?
THERE IS NO NATION CALLED PALESTINE.
THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A NATION CALLED PALESTINE.

I don't care about your notion of 'genetic links' being a requirement for Jews having a right to reclaim their nation. Jews are Jews. Jews own the Land of Israel. Period. You want part ownership ? Convert to Judaism.

Jews have Biblical ownership of the land.
Jews have historical ownership of the land.
Jews have legal ownership of the land.
Jews have military ownership of the land.
'Palestinians' have nothing but pimples.

Israel is not a Christian nation.
Israel is not an Islamic nation.
Israel is a Jewish nation.

Friendly Christians and even Muslims can dwell in the land of Israel. But they are there only as guests of the Jewish People. They must acknowledge Jewish sovereignty. They are known as resident strangers.

Too bad if this doesn't agree with the concept of Jeffersonian democracy.

THE JEWISH LANDLORD HAS RETURNED.

[Crusader]

Sure they are thats why they gave us algorithms, without which you wouldn't be able to post your bigoted hate filled rhetoric. Why is it only judaism which has a right to invoke a 3000yr old promise made by 'God'?

Do pagans have the right to rule france because paganism predates christianity?

Israel passed from the pages of time, and considering they rarely ruled themselves anyway, its ludricous to use the bible r torah as a reasoning. The people who aren't jewish in that region have just as much right to be their as the indigenous jews, and more right that the western jewish colonists.

[AsheDina]

Sure they are thats why they gave us algorithms, without which you wouldn't be able to post your bigoted hate filled rhetoric. Why is it only judaism which has a right to invoke a 3000yr old promise made by 'G-d'?

Do pagans have the right to rule france because paganism predates christianity?

Israel passed from the pages of time, and considering they rarely ruled themselves anyway, its ludricous to use the bible r torah as a reasoning. The people who aren't jewish in that region have just as much right to be their as the indigenous jews, and more right that the western jewish colonists.

  Crusader, I have had to sit here and watch you and your murdering crime talking insinuations. The FACT here is that YOU have NO home, and this is bothering YOU. You also have a massive JEALOUSY because whether YOU like it or NOT, OUR G-d is alive and well, and frankly, HE IS TIRED OF YOUR POSTS HERE. You think that G-d does NOT exist? HUH?
Here is the PROOF he does:

  We JEWS should have been GONE WITH THE WITH A LONG TIME AGO. YOUR people have "TRIED" to MURDER and slaughter us for CENTURIES.. Does it not CHAP your little hide, that we JUST WONT GO AWAY?

  We have an UNBREAKABLE covenant with G-d, even if we did NOT go there, it would NOT stop the covenant.
  Tell ya what, after you are done with your palestinian SYMPATHY, and WHEN and IF you just CANNOT fight G-d anymore, (b/c clearly you will not EVER win this argument), My suggestion to you, is to go and take this up with G-d. EXPLAIN TO HIM, why you have the a-- at a PROMISE he made.

 Bottom Line here, is that you are NOT fighting US, you ARE fighting G-d. This is NOT good, this is BAD for YOU.  If you keep this up, you WILL find yourself, in the hands of the Living G-d.

  And, if you DONT believe that G-d takes NO pleasure in UN righteous behavior, Go and look at the very long and drawn out coma that Mr. Ariel Sharon is in, when HE GAVE AWAY GAZA TO MURDERERS.

[mord]

I really don'nt like this whole genetic thing but here have fun           http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohen_modal_haplotype

[Americanhero1]

Sure they are thats why they gave us algorithms, without which you wouldn't be able to post your bigoted hate filled rhetoric. Why is it only judaism which has a right to invoke a 3000yr old promise made by 'G-d'?

Do pagans have the right to rule france because paganism predates christianity?

Israel passed from the pages of time, and considering they rarely ruled themselves anyway, its ludricous to use the bible r torah as a reasoning. The people who aren't jewish in that region have just as much right to be their as the indigenous jews, and more right that the western jewish colonists.

  Crusader, I have had to sit here and watch you and your murdering crime talking insinuations. The FACT here is that YOU have NO home, and this is bothering YOU. You also have a massive JEALOUSY because whether YOU like it or NOT, OUR G-d is alive and well, and frankly, HE IS TIRED OF YOUR POSTS HERE. You think that G-d does NOT exist? HUH?
Here is the PROOF he does:

  We JEWS should have been GONE WITH THE WITH A LONG TIME AGO. YOUR people have "TRIED" to MURDER and slaughter us for CENTURIES.. Does it not CHAP your little hide, that we JUST WONT GO AWAY?

  We have an UNBREAKABLE covenant with G-d, even if we did NOT go there, it would NOT stop the covenant.
  Tell ya what, after you are done with your palestinian SYMPATHY, and WHEN and IF you just CANNOT fight G-d anymore, (b/c clearly you will not EVER win this argument), My suggestion to you, is to go and take this up with G-d. EXPLAIN TO HIM, why you have the a-- at a PROMISE he made.

 Bottom Line here, is that you are NOT fighting US, you ARE fighting G-d. This is NOT good, this is BAD for YOU.  If you keep this up, you WILL find yourself, in the hands of the Living G-d.

  And, if you DONT believe that G-d takes NO pleasure in UN righteous behavior, Go and look at the very long and drawn out coma that Mr. Ariel Sharon is in, when HE GAVE AWAY GAZA TO MURDERERS.

[Ulli]

Great statement Paulette and true 

[Muck DeFuslims]

You don't have to accept the 3000 year old promise.

You can continue to deny the archeological evidence.

You can continue to deny the historical record.

You can deny the legal mandate.

You can deny any and all evidence of JEWISH ownership of the Land of Israel.

Deny the Bible, deny the Torah, deny the archeology, deny the history.

Deny, deny, deny.

But the Jews are there.
Israel is there.

Obviously, you don't want them there.
You don't think they have a right to be there.

So the question is, what are you going to do to get rid of Israel and the Jews that you seem to think need your approval to be there ?

What do you have in mind ?

Seems to me that it's going to take a war to get Israel, and the Jews you don't approve of being there, to leave.

I'm afraid Israel and the Jews will have to prove to you who has military ownership of the land.

Seems to me that that's where this is heading.

Or do you have another idea ?

[Crusader]

First off i never said i didn't approve of Jews being there, merely the state of Israel. jews had lived there for 2000yrs without an Israel, why the need for it. Secondly western colonist jews are given more rights than the indigenous non-jews, which is wrong.

this unbreakable covenant with GOD is frankly bollox. im not sure GOD intended the kingdom of Israel to come about through mass murder and ethnic cleansing of another people do you?

'Deny, deny, deny.'

im not denying anything, i recognise there have always been jews since the start of the faith. But so to there has always been non-jews in the region, why are they not afforded the same rights?
It is youse who deny the rights of a people to their own land, and deny the suffering inflicted upon them by western jewish colonists.

[Muck DeFuslims]

Here's a newsflash for you.

Israel doesn't need your approval to be there.

Israel is there.

The 'western colonists' are there.

They're not leaving because you don't approve of them being there.

Whether you think there is a need for Israel or not is irrelevant.

Israel is there.

So again, I ask you, what are you suggesting ?

I'm not happy that the artificially created nations of Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, etc are there and don't allow Jews to live within their borders.

I'm not happy that Israel is the world's ONLY Jewish nation. I'm not happy that Israel is smaller than New Jersey and the Arab nations have a combined land mass nearly twice that of the entire USA. I'm not happy that there are 65 Muslim nations.

But I accept it.

I accept it until some assclown comes to this forum and suggests the dissolution of tiny Israel and whines about Israel not giving rights to the hostile Arabs that wish to destroy her.

When that happens I tell that assclown to kiss my Jewish buttocks and [censored] and die.

[Ulli]

Yes Muck,

this is right 

[q_q_]

by allowing arabs that want to destroy israel, the right to live in israel, or the right for a state alongside it, you are more than denying israel's right to exist. You are preparing the ground for another attempted holocaust.

What is this "I don't deny israel the right to exist", if you prepare the ground for it to be annihalated.

The arabs within israel are within already, and the arabs adjacent could storm in. Moreso if they have a "right of return"

Even if they fail, it is their intention to destroy israel, and you "want" to help them. Or, you say you don't but you believe in actions that help them in this goal.

And if they succeeded, you may condemn them with your words, with a BUT. But, you would say, israel shouldn't have been there in the first place, they shouldn't have taken their land e.t.c
You can't have it both ways.. It's Israel or P@lestine, and that's a reality because of the ways of the arabs.  Who have shown that when israel compromises, israel loses. Starting with the 1948 offer, which had israel quite small. And excluding the "west bank".  Israel accepted it, the arabs rejected it, and worse, tried for another holocaust. Thank G-d they failed. They've tried again since. Most are for suicide bombers. Those people are no more willing to compromise than the suicide bombers.



Infact.. it's not so much a choice one has to make between israel and p@lestine.
It's a moral choice, between Israel, who if she put her weapons down, would be destroyed.
And Palestine, who if she put her weapons down, there would be peace.

So it's not just a religious basis(my text says x).. it's a moral basis too.

So G-dless animals should be able to  understand it too ;-)

[AsheDina]

First off i never said i didn't approve of Jews being there, merely the state of Israel. jews had lived there for 2000yrs without an Israel, why the need for it. Secondly western colonist jews are given more rights than the indigenous non-jews, which is wrong.

this unbreakable covenant with G-d is frankly bollox. im not sure G-d intended the kingdom of Israel to come about through mass murder and ethnic cleansing of another people do you?

'Deny, deny, deny.'

im not denying anything, i recognise there have always been jews since the start of the faith. But so to there has always been non-jews in the region, why are they not afforded the same rights?
It is youse who deny the rights of a people to their own land, and deny the suffering inflicted upon them by western jewish colonists.

  Now we must say to YOU, you are:               VERBOTEN 

Chaps you little hide, nazi, does it not, that we HAVE a home...you still want to MURDER us, only THIS time, we have bigger, and badder WEAPONS than you.  LOL! AS IF A nazi GIVES A CRAP ABOUT ETHNIC CLEANSING.

Let me see... Jews...ethnic cleansing...........NOPE- DONT RING A BELL.

[MarZutra]

Easy Paulette my Jewish sister...  Please allow him to ask his questions and make his positions....

Sorry Crusader for the delay in my response as I just got in from my workout.  Previously you mentioned highly distorted subject: "The Golden Age of Islam" which is, as I stated, a piece of Arabist Revisionism in actuality progressed by the Edward Saids of our time.  In actuality its base lies within Islam's specificity called Taqiyya and Kitman used against the infidel to further Jihad and the end goals of Islam.

I see you've researched some base history.  I presume you know who Maimonides: Rambam was?  If not you can google him.  Do you believe that he's the sort of individual that is apt to tell the truth and not lie even though he was one of the great Jewish Sages who lived during "The Golden Age of Islam"? 

If your answer is yes, one must then ask why someone like Maimonides disquised himself as an Arab to flee "Golden Age" Adalusian Spain to Egypt and then to Tiberias: Israel?  Further that Rambam/Maimonides is quoted: "The Arabs (Muslims) have persecuted us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us... Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase and hate us as much as they."  So really, how "Golden" could this "Golden Age of Islam" truly have been?  Further research you will find that one is splitting hairs being Jewish persecution under the "Christian" Europe or enslavement and/or persecution as Kufar/ "Dhimmi" under the Mohammadan.  Should you wish to research this further might I suggest some books you can jot down?  "The Dhimmi" by Ba't Yeor, "The Legacy of Jihad" by Andrew Bostom or anything by Robert Spencer...   

Lastly, now that China is occupying Buddhist Tebet would you agree or disagree that the Mr. Lama and his Buddhists, should they in the future attain the opportunity or the power, have the moral justifications to take back their historical homelands stolen by the Chinese Communists even if the Russians occupy this area in the meanwhile?

[Crusader]

Didn't Maimonides actually end up serving the court of Saladin? Why didn't you mention that in your post?
The Almohades who he fled in southern spain were notoriously stern in their system of govt. it seems yet again you wish to tar all muslims with the one brush.

As regards the Tibet issue, i believe china has no business there, but if 2000yrs pass and tibet is gone from the history books for millenia, i think it wrong for followers of the Dali's faith, who have no other link to the region to inflict suffering on the indigenous people there.

As a christian, im willing to admit that history shows jews fared less well under christianity than Islam, it is a fact. I just wonder what the agenda is that seeks to revise this and blacken the name of muslims everywhere as anti-semites. The legacy of Jewish suffering is in these links for all to see.

http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/guilt.html

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/1000years.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers.htm


P.S the golden age of Islam did occur, for centuries they were well ahead of the west. Again i ask what the agenda is in denying this fact. Anti-islamic perhaps...one does have to wonder.


http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_401_450/golden_age_of_islam.htm

[AsheDina]

Didn't Maimonides actually end up serving the court of Saladin? Why didn't you mention that in your post?
The Almohades who he fled in southern spain were notoriously stern in their system of govt. it seems yet again you wish to tar all muslims with the one brush.

As regards the Tibet issue, i believe china has no business there, but if 2000yrs pass and tibet is gone from the history books for millenia, i think it wrong for followers of the Dali's faith, who have no other link to the region to inflict suffering on the indigenous people there.

As a christian, im willing to admit that history shows jews fared less well under christianity than Islam, it is a fact. I just wonder what the agenda is that seeks to revise this and blacken the name of muslims everywhere as anti-semites. The legacy of Jewish suffering is in these links for all to see.

http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/guilt.html

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/1000years.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers.htm


P.S the golden age of Islam did occur, for centuries they were well ahead of the west. Again i ask what the agenda is in denying this fact. Anti-islamic perhaps...one does have to wonder.


http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_401_450/golden_age_of_islam.htm

  (Ok..Marzutra, I shall hold my peace....in just a minute lol- then disappear from your debate.)

   You, a CHRISTIAN? Crusader?

   Why are you in DIRECT DEFIANCE of your New Testament? Have YOU considered that the book YOU BELIEVE says:
   "If he did not spare the branch, why should G-d in Heaven Spare YOU?" OBVIOUSLY you are NOT in belief of your OWN book, which solidifies your 'so-called' faith.
 
IT IS EVIDENT- you have no healthy Fear of G-d, AT ALL.
 
   You are NOT a 'practicing christian', else you would be here, like ALL of the OTHER REAL Christians exuding of LOVE...which you are not.

I shall REMOVE myself from this debate ENTIRELY.
 
  And I will tell you, before I go- R E P E N T.  And as it says in YOUR book: "And now abideth faith, hope and love, and the greatest of these IS LOVE.

PUHHHLEASEEEE, JEWS do THIS WAY better than  some christians. 
 
Now heres another:

"You are of YOUR father, Satan"

Well- its ALL in YOUR book.

[MarZutra]

Didn't Maimonides actually end up serving the court of Saladin? Why didn't you mention that in your post?
The Almohades who he fled in southern spain were notoriously stern in their system of govt. it seems yet again you wish to tar all muslims with the one brush.  Islam is Islam, whether some practice it the way it is supposed to be, in the image of its Prophet and its founder is a directly related answer.  You must read the Hadith and the Koran, research its history and its' specificties as related to Islamic jurisprudance....  You will quickly understand what I'm speaking...

As regards the Tibet issue, i believe china has no business there, but if 2000yrs pass and tibet is gone from the history books for millenia, Israel has never left the history books my friend.  It has been continually praised by Christians and Jews alike.  It has been a major subject of art during the Renaissance further continued to be the crux of culture that founded America: Puritans..i think it wrong for followers of the Dali's faith, who have no other link to the region to inflict suffering on the indigenous people there. But these people wouldn't be "indigenous" especially if there continually had a portion of its former owner/Buddhists, in continuous habitation of their homelands, even if under a new conquerer.  Therefore the land is a. still in history and b. the land still has a population of its former owners.

As a christian, im willing to admit that history shows jews fared less well under christianity than Islam, it is a fact. Actually, no it is not a fact.  It is again progressive revisionisms.  A very good example is the continual contortion of the subject of the crusades where Chistians are always the blood thirsty bastards that massacre innocent Mohammadans and Jews.  Yes, that did happen in some instances but well over propaganted and molested by the  anti-Religious/G-d Socialistic/Communistic agenda and ideology itself.  A good example of this is the subject of the Fabian Socialist Society who owned and operated "The Christian Book Club" where they would publish and sell to benighted Christians Bibles, Christian literature that was molested with Socialist contortions to undermine/distort Christianity to make the reading Christians more open to their agenda to promulgate the Socialist ideal.  Research this subject and you'll be shocked.  One fabulous example that I've personally come accross was a book written about the Fabians and how Socialism was brought to America: "Fabian Freeway" - Rose Martin. 

Back to the Crusades.  There were two things happening at this time, Chrystendom was breaking apart while Islam: the Caliphate was expanding via Jihad (war).  So much so that Islam vanquished and enslaved masses of non-Muslim Infidels from Spain to Asia.  The Crusades were brought on to re-claim the Holyland from the Mohammadan Jihadists.  If you research Islamic expansion into Greece and the Pellaponese, North Africa, Spain, Armenia, Hindu Afghanistan/Kush, India, Persia etc. you'll find that Islam didn't grow via door to door missionaries preaching the Gospel but the sword comparable to what is currently going on in the Sudan and other places today.   

To end this specific portion of my response I strongly suggest, as it is directly applicable to this molestation of anti-Christian agenda and Arabist distortions is two subjects.  The first is that of Khazaria the Khazars, the most widely documented read is by a man named Dunlop.  The Khazars were an independant power which lay between the Islamic Caliphate's expansion and the shaking Byzantine Empire.  While Islam was making a pincer movement by taking Spain and working towards Western Europe to be defeated by Charles Martel, there was a continual power block being the Khazars in the East.  Aside from the Islamic documentation themselves you might wish to delve into the diary of Marco Polo.  This is a worthy read as one will see, even then, the brutality of Islamic doctrine.   "The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Crusades" is a worthy read as well...I just wonder what the agenda is that seeks to revise this and blacken the name of muslims everywhere as anti-semites. When you study Islamc jurisprudance you will fully be introduced to something truly "blackening" itself.  The expansionist goal of perpetual war between Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb via any means necessary "Jihad" to have global Islam....  I'm not sure if you'd like having 3 options given to you: be killed, convert or slavery via the Jizya?  I sure don't want any of these options...   Secondly, Arabs are not a semitic people.  They are Hamitic but their language, Arabic, is a semitic language.  http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/semites/semites.htmlThe legacy of Jewish suffering is in these links for all to see.

http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/guilt.html

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/1000years.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers.htm

I will not debate this as it is fact however, due to the fact that Islam and the Mohammadan history, agenda and religious specificities has not a well, overt, documentation to only recently been introduced as a subject here in the West with about 30 years of Arabist propaganda..one must question the sourses themselves.  Further, the anti-Christian Socialist/Communist movement also released an immense amount of distorted material to inject anti-semitism into benighted Christians and further blame the Christians for the deeds and advocations of their corrupted power hungry Kings and Popes.  "A History of Christianity" or "A History of the Jews" by Paul Johnson are fabulous as is Michael Grant's "Jews in the Roman World".
P.S the golden age of Islam did occur, for centuries they were well ahead of the west. Again i ask what the agenda is in denying this fact. Anti-islamic perhaps...one does have to wonder.  Brother it is not....not...fact.  It is the bi-product of "political correctness".  It is a fabricated myth.  Simply type in "golden age of Islam myth" and you'll find tons of documentation.  You must research yourself and take nothing as fact...  FYI  here is something that you might enjoy.  Ba't Yeor is an immense worth to documentation on this subject.  Research her and her works.  Like Andrew Bostom, Yeor is in a class of her own.  http://jihadwatch.org/archives/003675.php

[AsheDina]

Didn't Maimonides actually end up serving the court of Saladin? Why didn't you mention that in your post?
The Almohades who he fled in southern spain were notoriously stern in their system of govt. it seems yet again you wish to tar all muslims with the one brush.  Islam is Islam, whether some practice it the way it is supposed to be, in the image of its Prophet and its founder is a directly related answer.  You must read the Hadith and the Koran, research its history and its' specificties as related to Islamic jurisprudance....  You will quickly understand what I'm speaking...

As regards the Tibet issue, i believe china has no business there, but if 2000yrs pass and tibet is gone from the history books for millenia, Israel has never left the history books my friend.  It has been continually praised by Christians and Jews alike.  It has been a major subject of art during the Renaissance further continued to be the crux of culture that founded America: Puritans..i think it wrong for followers of the Dali's faith, who have no other link to the region to inflict suffering on the indigenous people there. But these people wouldn't be "indigenous" especially if there continually had a portion of its former owner/Buddhists, in continuous habitation of their homelands, even if under a new conquerer.  Therefore the land is a. still in history and b. the land still has a population of its former owners.

As a christian, im willing to admit that history shows jews fared less well under christianity than Islam, it is a fact. Actually, no it is not a fact.  It is again progressive revisionisms.  A very good example is the continual contortion of the subject of the crusades where Chistians are always the blood thirsty bastards that massacre innocent Mohammadans and Jews.  Yes, that did happen in some instances but well over propaganted and molested by the  anti-Religious/G-d Socialistic/Communistic agenda and ideology itself.  A good example of this is the subject of the Fabian Socialist Society who owned and operated "The Christian Book Club" where they would publish and sell to benighted Christians Bibles, Christian literature that was molested with Socialist contortions to undermine/distort Christianity to make the reading Christians more open to their agenda to promulgate the Socialist ideal.  Research this subject and you'll be shocked.  One fabulous example that I've personally come accross was a book written about the Fabians and how Socialism was brought to America: "Fabian Freeway" - Rose Martin. 

Back to the Crusades.  There were two things happening at this time, Chrystendom was breaking apart while Islam: the Caliphate was expanding via Jihad (war).  So much so that Islam vanquished and enslaved masses of non-Muslim Infidels from Spain to Asia.  The Crusades were brought on to re-claim the Holyland from the Mohammadan Jihadists.  If you research Islamic expansion into Greece and the Pellaponese, North Africa, Spain, Armenia, Hindu Afghanistan/Kush, India, Persia etc. you'll find that Islam didn't grow via door to door missionaries preaching the Gospel but the sword comparable to what is currently going on in the Sudan and other places today.   

To end this specific portion of my response I strongly suggest, as it is directly applicable to this molestation of anti-Christian agenda and Arabist distortions is two subjects.  The first is that of Khazaria the Khazars, the most widely documented read is by a man named Dunlop.  The Khazars were an independant power which lay between the Islamic Caliphate's expansion and the shaking Byzantine Empire.  While Islam was making a pincer movement by taking Spain and working towards Western Europe to be defeated by Charles Martel, there was a continual power block being the Khazars in the East.  Aside from the Islamic documentation themselves you might wish to delve into the diary of Marco Polo.  This is a worthy read as one will see, even then, the brutality of Islamic doctrine.   "The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Crusades" is a worthy read as well...I just wonder what the agenda is that seeks to revise this and blacken the name of muslims everywhere as anti-semites. When you study Islamc jurisprudance you will fully be introduced to something truly "blackening" itself.  The expansionist goal of perpetual war between Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb via any means necessary "Jihad" to have global Islam....  I'm not sure if you'd like having 3 options given to you: be killed, convert or slavery via the Jizya?  I sure don't want any of these options...   Secondly, Arabs are not a semitic people.  They are Hamitic but their language, Arabic, is a semitic language.  http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/semites/semites.htmlThe legacy of Jewish suffering is in these links for all to see.

http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/guilt.html

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/1000years.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers.htm

I will not debate this as it is fact however, due to the fact that Islam and the Mohammadan history, agenda and religious specificities has not a well, overt, documentation to only recently been introduced as a subject here in the West with about 30 years of Arabist propaganda..one must question the sourses themselves.  Further, the anti-Christian Socialist/Communist movement also released an immense amount of distorted material to inject anti-semitism into benighted Christians and further blame the Christians for the deeds and advocations of their corrupted power hungry Kings and Popes.  "A History of Christianity" or "A History of the Jews" by Paul Johnson are fabulous as is Michael Grant's "Jews in the Roman World".
P.S the golden age of Islam did occur, for centuries they were well ahead of the west. Again i ask what the agenda is in denying this fact. Anti-islamic perhaps...one does have to wonder.  Brother it is not....not...fact.  It is the bi-product of "political correctness".  It is a fabricated myth.  Simply type in "golden age of Islam myth" and you'll find tons of documentation.  You must research yourself and take nothing as fact...  FYI  here is something that you might enjoy.  Ba't Yeor is an immense worth to documentation on this subject.  Research her and her works.  Like Andrew Bostom, Yeor is in a class of her own.  http://jihadwatch.org/archives/003675.php

 

  MarZutra....YOU are FLAT OUT THE MOST brilliant & MAGNIFICENT man I have EVER met in my ENTIRE life.