Great arguement on PW over Israel

[Crusader]

Apartheid was to keep warring black tribes apart? is that why blacks had the franchise limited and were herderd into shanty towns, and why the whites were the only government?

[MarZutra]

Apartheid was to keep warring black tribes apart? is that why blacks had the franchise limited and were herderd into shanty towns, and why the whites were the only government?

Before you make these comments you might research the specificities directly related to the surrounding countries re: tribal warfare.  Further, you might note that there were no paved roads, schools, civil infrastructure, written language, economic/financial insitutions etc. etc. prior to Ol-Whitey. 

Further, if one were to discover the dark continant today, they'd find none of the above, but they would find: inter-tribal warfare, cannibalism, disease, starvation, rape, murder and every immoral empoverishment one can imagine. 

I may not be here to make friends but I'll most certainly make people think....

[Crusader]

'Further, you might note that there were no paved roads, schools, civil infrastructure, written language, economic/financial insitutions etc. etc. prior to Ol-Whitey'


Are you suggesting that invading a country and building infrastructure allows you to claim the land as your own or legitimizes the oppression of the indigenous people?

[AsheDina]

ahh, but do zinonists not present inaacurate hostories. A land without a people for a pople without a land, there was no nakba etc etc. you can't have it all your own way.

  Crusader.... SPELL-AGRA.   I think you should move to Israel, and state your case there  . Give our Jewish Brethren a course in "How to make friends and influence people"     I believe that you and I can agree... crusader... that you are clearly in the WRONG class of regents here. SUGGESTION: G.E.   
Keep feeling sorry for the palestinians, they are really kind to serve you to allah.

[Crusader]

By that you mean, people who refuse to acknowledge past wrong doings whilst exploiting one that was committed against them?

[MarZutra]

Are you suggesting that invading a country and building infrastructure allows you to claim the land as your own or legitimizes the oppression of the indigenous people?

Absolutely not, just simply outlining historical facts which are comparable to the founding of America, Canada, England, Spain, France etc. back to pre-Roman, Greek, Persian or Egyptian times.  These, unfortunately, are the realities of this Earth's long history.

However in comparision, one might ask if they'd rather a Mohammadan invasion and expansion of Sharia over that of the British Imperialism or today's American/Western geo-political realities?

[Crusader]

Historical fact is that Israel was founded by westerners, on another peoples land. A 2 or 3 thousand claim to a land based upon one religions holy book is really no claim at all.

Well the islamic golden age outshone the west for several centuries, and indeed the jewish religion fared better under islamic rule than it did under christian rule.

[MarZutra]

By that you mean, people who refuse to acknowledge past wrong doings whilst exploiting one that was committed against them?

I'm one whose always identified wrongs and rights of the past.  No worries there mate.  You had earlier stated that: "why blacks had the franchise limited and were herderd into shanty towns, and why the whites were the only government?"  Firstly, I was unaware that blacks, in anywhere within Africa lived in anything other than mud/feces covered huts prior to ol-whitey?  There was certainly no city or civilization comparable to say London, Paris or New York prior to "Dr. Livingston I presume?"  Heck even Alexandria, the Jewel of the Mediterranian was not a doing of the African.  Even Khartoum was largely a British rejuvination project.

Today, you have Arabian Moslems herding/murdering Black Christians into shantytowns, tent cities, massacres, rapes and genocide in the Sudan but never does one hear a word on the subject.  Is it because they are not White?  American? or British?  

[Crusader]

Are you for real? Sundan is hardly of the agenda these days !!!!!

Whats is your point about imperialism? that all those white colonists should still be ruling those countries because they built the infrastructure?

[MarZutra]

Historical fact is that Israel was founded by westerners, on another peoples land. A 2 or 3 thousand claim to a land based upon one religions holy book is really no claim at all.

Well the islamic golden age outshone the west for several centuries, and indeed the jewish religion fared better under islamic rule than it did under christian rule.

Are you for real?  So you are telling all of us that Israel or Judea never existed?  No Jews were living in Israel-Judea: "Palestine" prior to WW2 or post 1948's fouding of the State of Israel?  Have you read anything I've posted above?  Surely, the historical facts related to my very first post to you negates your above statement.  Please research and you'll find all the substance you need.  

The Islamic so-called "Golden Age" is purely a Arabist Western piece of revisionist history recreating the Andalusian/Spanish mythology. One simple search into the dhimmi of Spain will obliterate this piece of Edward Saidian Arabist revisionism in absolute detail.  This self guilt must end brother, honestly...

[MarZutra]

Are you for real? Sundan is hardly of the agenda these days !!!!! Have you asked yourself why not?  Don't you think it just perhaps should be?

Whats is your point about imperialism? My point is that it is a historical fact of history that was taken up long before the British via: the Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians, Hittites, Greeks, Romans, Mongols and yes the Mohammadans and the Communist Russians...that all those white colonists should still be ruling those countries because they built the infrastructure? Where have you been?  They haven't been ruling in quite some time.  As a matter of fact you might research the specificities relating to Belguim leaving the Congo to "self determination" and black rule.  How about today's Zimbabwe, Botzwana, Kenya, Angola etc. etc. where Whites left the blacks to power and now blacks massacred the whites, many being productive farmers, driving all of these once exporting nations back onto the International "Humanitarian Aid" Dole. 

Perhaps you might research the fact that shortly after these nations were created and turned over to black rule you will find Marxist murderous revolutions occurred in nearly, if not every, one of them.  Further organized, funded, armed by Communist Cuba, China and Russia, similarly to the Arabia World, post 1953.

[Muck DeFuslims]

What is this creep doing here under a new screen name ?

Crusader is actually Republicanstones.

Still spouting his falsehoods about 'indiginous' people. This insipid moron refuses to acknowledge an undeniable truth. It is the Jews who are the indiginous people of the Land of Israel. All his poppycock about 'Palestinian' ancestry pre-dating that of the Jews is absurd nonsense.

In another thread Republicanstones stated "It is the white western colonial zionist who should go back to where they came from". Well peckerhead, thats EXACTLY what the Jews are doing !! Then you have the audacity to complain about it. What hypocrisy !

This assclown had his clock cleaned in another thread (http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=24062.msg258036#msg258036) and now he's back using a new moniker.

Was your Republicanstones ID banned from this site ?  Using a proxy to come in with a new screen name ? Or is this just a sockpuppet to fool the moderators here ?

You're a tool.

[Rubystars]

If the Palescumians were the ones living there prior to the Jews arrival thousands of years ago, then the Jews were commanded to kill every last one of them and take the land, weren't they? So maybe the Palescumians ought not to identify with that too strongly.

[Crusader]

As i said before, ofcourse there were small numbers of indigenous jews living in palestine. but Israel was set up by non-indigenous Jews from the west. the Islamic Golden Age did exist, perhaps its your anti-islamic bias which precludes you from admitting this piece of history.


Im well aware the colonial powers no longer rule those colonies, but are you sugessting they still should?

Are you also suggesting that the UA or Britain never funded any nefarious organistions or regimes?

o now im someone else am I, praytell who is RepublicanStones? He seems to have the right idea.

[Rubystars]

As i said before, ofcourse there were small numbers of indigenous jews living in palestine. but Israel was set up by non-indigenous Jews from the west. the Islamic Golden Age did exist, perhaps its your anti-islamic bias which precludes you from admitting this piece of history.


Im well aware the colonial powers no longer rule those colonies, but are you sugessting they still should?

Are you also suggesting that the UA or Britain never funded any nefarious organistions or regimes?

o now im someone else am I, praytell who is RepublicanStones? He seems to have the right idea.

Let's say that you live in England and you move to another country to live with your wife. After a few generations, one of the great grandkids decides to move back to England. That grandkid would still have a legitimate claim to English heritage and could rightly call themselves a member of the indigenous population, in my opinion, because you don't lose your identity just because you are in exile.

[Crusader]

the grankid would have a 'claim' to be english, but not after 2000 odd years. judaism is not an ethnicity, it is a religion and those who founded israel had no genetic link to the region. the only link they had was a book.

[Muck DeFuslims]

"o now im someone else am I, praytell who is RepublicanStones?"

That would be YOU, [censored]. Don't even bother trying to deny it. You're not only an idiot, you're a transparent idiot.

For the last time, the JEWS are the indiginous people of the Land of Israel.

When you were still posting as Republicanstones, you asked in another thread--What about white western colonists who conquer a land not theirs?


That's actually an excellent question.

I think those 'white western colonists' known as the Romans who conquered Judea, murdered it's JEWISH inhabitants and ethnically cleansed the Land of Israel of it's JEWISH inhabitants were guilty of the worst war crimes imaginable and JUSTICE demands that the Jews reclaim their homeland.

If you have a problem with that, that's just too bad.

The JEWISH landlord has returned, and this time he's staying forever. And there's not a damned thing you can do about it. Better learn to live with it.

[Crusader]

Afraid im not, but you keep peddling your lies if you must, and if it makes you feel better. BTW Israel was set up by white western colonists in 1948. they had no genetic link to the middle east whatsoever. Funny even now when you see israeli politicians they look like we do in the west, not like the indigenous people whose land they stole.

[Rubystars]

the grankid would have a 'claim' to be english, but not after 2000 odd years. judaism is not an ethnicity, it is a religion and those who founded israel had no genetic link to the region. the only link they had was a book.

It is a people and a national identity. Judaism is a religion, but it's so much more than that. Jews are one people despite being scattered around the world, and they will have their homeland whether you like it or not.

[Americanhero1]

Afraid im not, but you keep peddling your lies if you must, and if it makes you feel better. BTW Israel was set up by white western colonists in 1948. they had no genetic link to the middle east whatsoever. Funny even now when you see israeli politicians they look like we do in the west, not like the indigenous people whose land they stole.

What are you?

[Rubystars]

Afraid im not, but you keep peddling your lies if you must, and if it makes you feel better. BTW Israel was set up by white western colonists in 1948. they had no genetic link to the middle east whatsoever. Funny even now when you see israeli politicians they look like we do in the west, not like the indigenous people whose land they stole.

Actually when genetic tests have been done in Jewish populations, they do tend to have Middle Eastern ancestry no matter what other race they have in their ancestry. The majority of both Ashkenazi and Sephardim share a lot of genetics in common if that counts for anything. Of course first generation converts might not have this, but if they marry other Jews then their children will.

[Crusader]

Sure Ruby, i await your link to this research. judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity.

'Jews are one people despite being scattered around the world, and they will have their homeland whether you like it or not.'


So ethiopian Jews are the same race as white western jews are they? Tell me are greek christians the same race as english christians?

[MarZutra]

As i said before, ofcourse there were small numbers of indigenous jews living in palestine. but Israel was set up by non-indigenous Jews from the west. We can agree on this part but my premise is that there were always Jews living in Israel, Judea prior to the British re-inventing "Palestine".  By accepting this new revisionist, actually Hadrianic fabrication, one is negating there being an Israel further a Judea (Now, for purely political reasons, re-named "West Bank")the Islamic Golden Age did exist, perhaps its your anti-islamic bias which precludes you from admitting this piece of history. Anyone with a functioning brain should hold anti-Islamic bais unless one wishes to eventually live under Sharia via a death, conversion or pay the jizya policy under Islams expanding Caliphate?  You might wish to read the Koran, Hadith and research Islamic/Arabian history.  I'm guessing you are an infidel?  If so you are directly given the three aforementioned choices, however should you be an hindu you'll be affored the first two choices unless the Imam of the day decides you'd make a great slave.  Ask the Hindus or Blacks.  Hell ask the Christians of Spain, parts of France, Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, Hungary or Albania considering they too have first hand experience....  You might read up on El-Cid as well for your own personal knowledge...

Im well aware the colonial powers no longer rule those colonies, but are you sugessting they still should? Not at all.  I'm suggesting that if they had, or would, Africa might one day become a fairly civilized and productive continant....

Are you also suggesting that the USA or Britain never funded any nefarious organistions or regimes? Not at all.  I do not agree with the vast majority of "Globalism" of what the Elitist Establisment schemas.  There we would emphatically agree..

[MarZutra]

'Jews are one people despite being scattered around the world, and they will have their homeland whether you like it or not.'

So ethiopian Jews are the same race as white western jews are they? Tell me are greek christians the same race as english christians?

Jews are a people: a nation: with their own faith, language, culture and formerly land with borders: Israel/Judea hense Judea, Judaism, Jew. 

If one studies the base of Judaism, which not only wrote the Bible but introduced the entire western concept of morality, will see that one can become a Jew: Judean by accepting the specificities of Judaism.  Ah, nevermind.  Go get the book "Nine Questions People Ask About Judaism" by Dennis Prager or "This is My G-d" - Herman Woek..

Happy reading 

[Crusader]

I know there was an Israel/judea (although didn't Judea survive for longer than israel?). But that was in ancient history, to commit the grevious wrong which was comitted in 1948 based upon ancient hisotry is unfair i think. There were others in the land in ancient history too, not just Jews. there were also people living there prior to judaism itself. Jebus was captured by the Jews, so would you agree to it being handed over to people who claim descendancy from its inhabitants?