Great arguement on PW over Israel

[mord]

any good debaters                       






http://forum.protestwarrior.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7838









http://forum.protestwarrior.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7820

[Ulli]

This guy GOP-buster is the prototype of an arrogant western selfhater. He really thinks, that he has the solution for all world problems. Weird guy.

[Maimonides]

Why do we bother focusing on this?

We can spend all of eternity trying to debate anti-semites and delusional people.

If anything by debating them we feed their appetite to continue spreading disinformation.

[MarZutra]

I made a token appearence to back your words Mord.   

[AsheDina]

any good debaters                       






http://forum.protestwarrior.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7838









http://forum.protestwarrior.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7820

 MORD--->>   BTW, I am Jewish and a big supporter of Israel. But I am worried that Israel will not exist much longer  Sure Sure Chump- she WANTS them to not exist at all.
 

  "btw, I am Jewish and a big supporter of Israel" WTF?

   IF YOU ARE JEWISH, you dont 'support' Israel, YOU ARE Israel- whattttttt a jerk. Sorry Mord, but she is a REAL jerk. WHY doesent she just say that she is an American that likes to show Israel that they have weakness, and she LOVES THAT? People would get WAY more respect, if they were HONEST.  She is an American? PLEASE! Mord! All that work you did, and she gave those Military Jewish Battle Commanders ZERO NO Honor- NONE.
  'tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies....tell me tell me lies........" she is a "Jew" and I am Catherine Zeta Jones. 

[mord]

Both Phesant and Marzutra gave perfect arguements that the cut and paster GOP buster could'nt answer.Little Josh Furman just ran

[Crusader]

Is it possible to criticize Israel without being anti-semitic?

[MarZutra]

Is it possible to criticize Israel without being anti-semitic?

Absolutely!  I do it all the time!!!

[Crusader]

I wonder what peoples thoughts on this article are.



When Journalists Refuse To Tell The Truth About Israel
by: Robert Fisk

'Fear of being slandered as "anti-Semites" means we are abetting terrible deeds in the Middle East'
17 April 2001
What if we had supported the apartheid regime of South Africa against the majority black population? What if we had lauded the South African white leadership as "hard-line warriors" rather than racists? What if we had explained the shooting of 56 black protesters at Sharpeville as an understandable "security crackdown" by the South African police. And described black children shot by the police as an act of "child sacrifice" by their parents? What if we had called upon the "terrorist" ANC leadership to "control their own people".

Almost every day that is exactly the way we are playing the Israeli-Palestinian war. No matter how many youths are shot dead by the Israelis, no matter how many murders – by either side – and no matter how bloody the reputation of the Israeli Prime Minister, we are reporting this terrible conflict as if we supported the South African whites against the blacks. No, Israel is not South Africa (though it happily supported the apartheid regime) and no, the Palestinians are not the blacks of the shanty towns. But there's not much difference between Gaza and the black slums of Johannesburg; and there's not much difference between the tactics of the Israeli army in the occupied territories and that of the South African police. The apartheid regime had death squads, just as Israel has today. Yet even they did not use helicopter gunships and missiles.

Rarely since the Second World War has a people been so vilified as the Palestinians. And rarely has a people been so frequently excused and placated as the Israelis. Israeli embassies are now buttonholing editors around the world, saying that it's not fair to call Israel's Prime Minister "hard-line". And the reporters are falling into line.

Sharon, we are told, may turn into a pragmatist, another De Gaulle; in truth he's more like the French putschist generals in Algeria. They also used torture and massacred their Arab opponents. It needed an Israeli writer – Nehemia Strasler, in Ha'aretz – to point out that Sharon's career spells anything but peace. He voted against the peace treaty with Egypt in 1979. He voted against a withdrawal from southern Lebanon in 1985. He opposed Israel's participation in the Madrid peace conference in 1991. He opposed the Knesset plenum vote on the Oslo agreement in 1993. He abstained on a vote for peace with Jordan in 1994. He voted against the Hebron agreement in 1997. He condemned the manner of Israel's retreat from Lebanon in 2000. He is now building Jewish settlements on occupied Arab land – in total violation of international law ­ at a faster rate than his predecessor.

Yet we are to believe that it is the corrupt, Parkinson's-haunted Yasser Arafat who is to blame for the war. He will not "control" his people. He is chastised by George Bush while his people are bestialised by the Israeli leadership. Rafael Eytan, the former Israeli chief of staff, used to talk of the Palestinians as "cockroaches in a glass jar". Menachem Begin called them "two-legged beasts". Rabbi Ovdia Yousef, the spiritual head of the Shas party, called them "serpents". In August last year, Ehud Barak called them "crocodiles". Last month, the Israeli tourism minister, Rehavem Zeevi, called Arafat a "scorpion". Even the South African regime never called the blacks by such vile names.

And woe betide the diplomat or journalist who points this out. Earlier this year, the Simon Wiesenthal Centre, in Paris, accused the Swedish president of the European Union of "encouraging anti-Jewish violence". To condemn Israel for "eliminating terrorists", the centre wrote in a letter to the Swedish prime minister, "recalls the allied argument during the Second World War, according to which bombing the railways leading to Auschwitz would encourage anti-Semitism among the Germans". Sweden was making "a unilateral attack against the state of the survivors of the Holocaust". And the Swedish president's crime? She had dared to say that "the practice of eliminations constitutes an obstacle to peace and could provoke new violence". She did not even refer to death squads.

In February Newsweek propagated a virtual fraud on its cover by showing – under the headline "Terror Goes Global – Exclusive: Bin Laden's International Network" – a frightening photograph of a man (head and shoulders), his face covered in an Arab scarf, holding a rifle in his right hand. The reader would imagine this to be a member of Osama bin Laden's network of "global terror". But I traced the Finnish photographer who took this picture. He snapped it at a funeral on the West Bank. The man was an armed member of the Palestinian Tanzim militia -- and had nothing to do with Bin Laden. The Tanzim are violent enough. But the cover generically smeared the entire Palestinian people by associating them with the man supposedly responsible for bombing US embassies in Africa.

As that brave American writer Charley Reese said in his regular US column, the Israelis "have created their own unconquerable enemy". They have made the Palestinians so crushed, so desperate, so humiliated that they have nothing to lose. We, too, have done this. Our gutlessness, our refusal to tell the truth, our fear of being slandered as "anti-Semites" – the most loathsome of libels against any journalist – means that we are aiding and abetting terrible deeds in the Middle East. Maybe we should look up those cuttings of the apartheid era and remember when men were not without honour.


I wonder what peoples thoughts on this article are.

[mord]

Robert Fisk 1 is a Muslim's Jezebel 2 is a ignoramus           













First there is the problem of simple accuracy. It is difficult to turn a page of The Great War for Civilisation without encountering some basic error. Jesus was born in Bethlehem, not, as Fisk has it, in Jerusalem. The Caliph Ali, the Prophet Mohammed’s cousin and son-in-law, was murdered in the year 661, not in the 8th century. Emir Abdallah became king of Transjordan in 1946, not 1921. The Iraqi monarchy was overthrown in 1958, not 1962; Hajj Amin al-Husseini, the mufti of Jerusalem, was appointed by the British authorities, not elected; Ayatollah Khomeini transferred his exile from Turkey to the holy Shiite city of Najaf not during Saddam Hussein’s rule but fourteen years before Saddam seized power. Security Council resolution 242 was passed in November 1967, not 1968; Anwar Sadat of Egypt signed a peace treaty with Israel in 1979, not 1977, and was assassinated in October 1981, not 1979. Yitzhak Rabin was Minister of Defence, not prime minister, during the first Palestinian intifada, and al-Qaeda was established not in 1998 but a decade earlier. And so on and so forth.   
Read link for full article   


http://camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=118&x_article=1518

[Crusader]

Fisk is a world famous reporter whose won numerous awards, what have you ever done?

[Ulli]

The main problem of this article is, that it twist the reality.

Muslims are doing the evil things, they are doing to the Jews to people around the whole earth.

You can read it everyday in the newspaper.

Plus the Swedish prime minister is really hypocrite.

They see how the Muslims are raping, robbing and murdering through their whole country.

The righteous policy would be to support Israel in her struggle against the quranimals.

[mord]

Fisk is a world famous reporter whose won numerous awards, what have you ever done?

Not make up stories now care to discuss the errors in his reporting

[Ulli]

Fisk is a world famous reporter whose won numerous awards, what have you ever done?

Who is writing such an article has serious mental problems. This is a fact. 

And come on everybody knows how it works with this leftist journalist awards. They gave awards in a circle under each other. 

[MarZutra]

Funny, the journalists and media will not tell the truth about Apartheid, not even its' factually correct definition.  The entire schema was brought into service not primarily to keep blacks and whites apart but to keep the continually warring black tribes apart from one another.  

Similarly to "Free Trade", I'd honestly like to see a factually correct study presented on the pre and post Apartheid South Africa.  I'd bet my last dollar not only the entirety of South Africa; whites and blacks, were far better off under Apartheid.  Hell, look at any inner city in America for a "progress" or rather digression marker...

PS: There sure are some real anti-Jew pro-Arab bastards on that PW forum...whoa...

[mord]

Funny, the journalists and media will not tell the truth about Apartheid, not even its' factually correct definition.  The entire schema was brought into service not primarily to keep blacks and whites apart but to keep the continually warring black tribes apart from one another.  

Similarly to "Free Trade", I'd honestly like to see a factually correct study presented on the pre and post Apartheid South Africa.  I'd bet my last dollar not only the entirety of South Africa; whites and blacks, were far better off under Apartheid.  Hell, look at any inner city in America for a "progress" or rather digression marker...

PS: There sure are some real anti-Jew pro-Arab bastards on that PW forum...whoa...

Yes a few not many

[mord]

Fisk is a world famous reporter whose won numerous awards, what have you ever done?

Amother prize winning reporter who was fired for making up storys          

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayson_Blair

[mord]

Oh look another prize winner fired for making up storys

http://academics.smcvt.edu/dmindich/Jimmy's%20World.htm

[MarZutra]

Bit of a mistake I think Mord.  Abdallah was Emir of Transjordan (1921-1946) under a British Mandate, then King of Transjordan (May 25, 1946 - 1949), and King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (1949 - 1951). Abdallah is also  called King Abdullah "the Founder" since he, with British direction, was the founder and tin pot "King" of Jordan.  Perhaps you were thinking of King Hussein bin Talal, King of Jordan (November 14, 1935 – February 7, 1999) was the ruler of Jordan from the abdication of his father, King Talal I bin Abdullah, in 1952, until his death?  

[MarZutra]

Oh look another prize winner fired for making up storys

http://academics.smcvt.edu/dmindich/Jimmy's%20World.htm

Good point

[MarZutra]

No, Mord. You are right.  I stand corrected.  He was "Emir" in 1921 and made "King" of Transjordan in 1946.  My apologies brother...

[Crusader]

ahh, but do zinonists not present inaacurate hostories. A land without a people for a pople without a land, there was no nakba etc etc. you can't have it all your own way.

[mord]

ahh, but do zinonists not present inaacurate hostories. A land without a people for a pople without a land, there was no nakba etc etc. you can't have it all your own way.

There was no nakba arabs were displaced Jews were displaced,AND WHO TOLD THE Arabs to leave none other then their leaders.Check it out

[Ulli]

ahh, but do zinonists not present inaacurate hostories. A land without a people for a pople without a land, there was no nakba etc etc. you can't have it all your own way.

Everybody knows, that the land was under the arab rule under a curse. It was wasteland and the Arab Muslims were unable to develop it. They were mostly beduine-shepherds, who doesn't really settled there.

Then after more and more Jews came in the land, the land began to flourish and flourished more and more. It was a blessing and the more Jews came to the land and were born there the bigger was the blessing.

The Muslims were now attracted to the land in order to profit from the fruits of the hard work of others. Some by stealing and some by working in jobs for low qualified people and later they loved the Israeli welfare system.

Now the Arab Muslims were very jealous, because the Jews were able to do things, while they were not able because of their laziness, bad working ethic and of course because of their religion and culture, which totally retarded them.

Now they attacked the Jews and killed a lot of innocent Jewish people because of their anti-semitism.

God punished them for their crimes and they loose one war after the other.

They will never stop to do this crimes, so they must go all. I demand this of cause for all non-muslime countries, because it is everywhere similar.  

[MarZutra]

ahh, but do zinonists not present inaacurate hostories. A land without a people for a pople without a land, there was no nakba etc etc. you can't have it all your own way.

Please allow me to respond for to this.  Firstly, one must know the proper definition of Zionism.  Zionism is solely the belief that Jews need to have their own homeland.  Many other destinations were proposed and rejected.  Even the Japanese approached Jewish leaders to settle Jews in parts of uninhabited China.  Now "Zion" stems from ancient religious roots dating back thousands of years as a particular place in pre-Judea: Caanan to which each year since the 6th century B.C.E. invasion of Israel by Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar to which Jews have yearly desired to "return to Zion".

Religious Zionism pre-dates both the Socialist and Jewish Nationalist Movement by millenia.  Even as purely a work of history the Bible details many examples which relate Abraham to Moses with Zion.  Thus true "Zionism", or returning home, has been one of the very pillars of Judaism and specifically, re: above, a cultural specificity since the Jewish Babylonian exile to which Christians often sing truth: "Rivers of Babylon", based on the Biblical hymn Psalm 137, a hymn expressing the yearnings of the Jewish people in exile following the Babylonian conquest of Jerusalem in 586 B.C.E.. The rivers of Babylon are the Euphrates river, its tributaries, and the Chebar river. The song also has words from Psalm 19:14.

Now jumping to semi-modern times.  If one researches Islam and how it spread one will find that wherever it spread it brough death, distruction, empoverishment (theivery of every vanquished nations resources and wealth), slavery, forced conversions to which, the group we know today as Gypsies, stem their Diaspora History directly to the Moslem Invasion of India under the Rashidun Caliphate in the 7th century and again in 1398 under Tamurlane.

So if simply looking at the backwardness and empoverishment of the entire Islamic World today one can see truth in both the words of Mark Twain, in his work "The Innocents Abroad" when he toured The Holyland in 1866 which further supports the evil "zionist" propaganda...albeit pre-Zionism by about 20 years.  Further, if one looks at the base difference between Greece and its pre-Moslem/Turkish Lands: Thrace for example.  Further one could look at the progress made by the Romans in these far off lands: Roads, aquaducts, archetecture and their collapse with the dawn/onslaught of Islam.  The most modern example is the influance the British when they took over India.  They had to crush the continual Jihad against the Hindu and stop many cultural traits of both Mohammadans and Hindus; Jihad and honor killings as well as wife burnings...  Not to mention their introduction of commerce, education, arts, engineering, civil infrastructure, police/military organization for self rule...  all pretty much collapsed after the Brits pulled out. 

Yes the Labor Zionists, Jewish Socialists, have spread their share of molested "facts" and even furthered their own vanquisment by aiding their publically stated enemies: The "Palestinians" and Muslims in general.  

The more you research on this subject the more "politically correct" and too "Islamically correct" distortions of the factually correct.  

Should you have any direct questions.  Please direct your pms to me and I'll supply you with answers which I do hope you independantly confirm via your self study.