Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
The Three Oaths - Wikipedia
Shlomo:
judeanoncapta, you know... you can argue a point without the personal insults.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
By the way any Jew living in Queens or who can come to Queens, who wants to borrow one of the Rav Kahane or Rav Benyamin Kahane books (or some of the other books that I have, including some volumes of Likutei Moharan, or others PM me.
Lubab:
"Rising up like a wave/swarm" I believe is the language used there. Everyone needs to be joining together to use force en masse, and that's not what happened here.
There's no question there was a small underground movement that used force and that applied political pressure to the British but in the end the British and the U.N. etc. AGREED to give it to us.
So it was not what the gemarah was referring to. Nor is it clear that these oaths are legal prohibitions at all.
Whenever JNC and his Rabbi have trouble explaining something they like to call it Aggadata so it doesn't really apply and they don't have to deal with it. It's an easy way out of any debate but they don't understand the depth of the Aggadta in the first place which is why they dismiss it and lump everything else they don't understand into that category.
He and his Rabbi are the ones that really need to grow up and dig deeper into their learning before dismissing what they can't explain as Aggadta.
At the same time they have a lot to learn from "Tinokos Shel Beis Raban" about Emunat Chachamim
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
Either way, whether it applied or not, Rav Kahane had the best answers brought down, explaining clearly why they dont apply anylonger (assuming even if they did apply).
Judea I think it is safer to use Rav kahane's answer becuase with your answer, even if true, still would leave people doubt, and its a good question if that Aggadita applies or not, etc. But with Rav Kahane's answer it is saying yes it applied, both Israel and the nations made an Oath, they violated it thus freeing Israel from their obligation. And then he brings clear proof from the Torah of similar situations. I believe a serious Hacham would not be able to go agains't the answers.
Lubab:
What I don't understand about that answer is, the pact is between us and G-d, not between us and the nations so I wouldn't think the nations breaking their oath would have any impact on our deal with G-d.
I think the real answer is that we didn't do it en mass as you said and that there's no indication that this is a halachic statement at all.
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