Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
The Three Oaths - Wikipedia
Lubab:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on August 14, 2008, 03:43:55 AM ---
--- Quote from: Shlomo on August 13, 2008, 04:20:39 PM ---judeanoncapta, you know... you can argue a point without the personal insults.
--- End quote ---
I apologize for offending you.
My animus comes from the knowledge of the incredible damage done to Jewish minds by Lubab's view of Aggadata.
I have to fight ideologies that I feel are killing the Jewish people.
I would be lacking in Ahavat Yisrael if I equivocated on such major issues such as these.
--- End quote ---
Thank you for being such a patiot! We all know that Lubab is the greatest danger to the Jewish people. Your ahavat yisroel should be an inspiration to us all. But remember. When you use personal insults you are not fighting an ideology you are fighting.
People who don't understand these statements of Chazal and just believe them are lacking in understanding.
People who reject them are lacking in faith in Chazal.
Neither group is completely right. You need to keep your faith in the words of Chazal, keep research'ing until you truly understand what they are saying. That is the true path of Torah.
By your logic you probably also believe that the splitting of the sea and the 10 plauges are too magical to be have occured and are just children's stories...that leads directly into denail of belief in the miracles of G-d and Tzadikim which the Rambam defines as heresy.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: Lubab on August 14, 2008, 05:58:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on August 14, 2008, 03:43:55 AM ---
--- Quote from: Shlomo on August 13, 2008, 04:20:39 PM ---judeanoncapta, you know... you can argue a point without the personal insults.
--- End quote ---
I apologize for offending you.
My animus comes from the knowledge of the incredible damage done to Jewish minds by Lubab's view of Aggadata.
I have to fight ideologies that I feel are killing the Jewish people.
I would be lacking in Ahavat Yisrael if I equivocated on such major issues such as these.
--- End quote ---
Thank you for being such a patiot! We all know that Lubab is the greatest danger to the Jewish people. Your ahavat yisroel should be an inspiration to us all. But remember. When you use personal insults you are not fighting an ideology you are fighting.
People who don't understand these statements of Chazal and just believe them are lacking in understanding.
People who reject them are lacking in faith in Chazal.
Neither group is completely right. You need to keep your faith in the words of Chazal, keep research'ing until you truly understand what they are saying. That is the true path of Torah.
By your logic you probably also believe that the splitting of the sea and the 10 plauges are too magical to be have occured and are just children's stories...that leads directly into denail of belief in the miracles of G-d and Tzadikim which the Rambam defines as heresy.
--- End quote ---
I think he was saying something else. Obviously things like the splitting of the sea, etc. occured, in reality, But what he is trying to say that one should not take Aggadatah literally because the essence of it is to teach on a different intellectual level and not something which we would call "down to eath" or reality. Also in these instances he said WHY these particualr ones had to be said- in order to change certain behavior of the times (which was necessary or felt necessary for the time).
Lubab:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on August 14, 2008, 08:43:39 PM ---
--- Quote from: Lubab on August 14, 2008, 05:58:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on August 14, 2008, 03:43:55 AM ---
--- Quote from: Shlomo on August 13, 2008, 04:20:39 PM ---judeanoncapta, you know... you can argue a point without the personal insults.
--- End quote ---
I apologize for offending you.
My animus comes from the knowledge of the incredible damage done to Jewish minds by Lubab's view of Aggadata.
I have to fight ideologies that I feel are killing the Jewish people.
I would be lacking in Ahavat Yisrael if I equivocated on such major issues such as these.
--- End quote ---
Thank you for being such a patiot! We all know that Lubab is the greatest danger to the Jewish people. Your ahavat yisroel should be an inspiration to us all. But remember. When you use personal insults you are not fighting an ideology you are fighting.
People who don't understand these statements of Chazal and just believe them are lacking in understanding.
People who reject them are lacking in faith in Chazal.
Neither group is completely right. You need to keep your faith in the words of Chazal, keep research'ing until you truly understand what they are saying. That is the true path of Torah.
By your logic you probably also believe that the splitting of the sea and the 10 plauges are too magical to be have occured and are just children's stories...that leads directly into denail of belief in the miracles of G-d and Tzadikim which the Rambam defines as heresy.
--- End quote ---
I think he was saying something else. Obviously things like the splitting of the sea, etc. occured, in reality, But what he is trying to say that one should not take Aggadatah literally because the essence of it is to teach on a different intellectual level and not something which we would call "down to eath" or reality. Also in these instances he said WHY these particualr ones had to be said- in order to change certain behavior of the times (which was necessary or felt necessary for the time).
--- End quote ---
Yes with the addition that he get's to decide what is considered Aggadta and what is not based on his understanding or lack thereof.
If you read Moreh Nevuchim you will find the answer to what he means that he killed the Egyptian with the name of G-d. Prayer works. That is reality also.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on August 14, 2008, 05:40:12 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on August 14, 2008, 01:19:06 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on August 12, 2008, 04:14:43 PM ---The Three Oaths were a rhetorical device used by Chazal to try to calm down the rowdy Jews who kept on trying one disastrous revolt after another.
--- End quote ---
Please provide source/evidence or at least the rationale for this explanation. This will be helpful to defending your stance, but it is also I think necessary for those without as much knowledge as you on this issue (myself included). This answer seems to presume a lot of unseen information.
--- End quote ---
I'll give you an example to demonstrate this. There is a Midrash that says that in the story where Moses killed the egyptian for beating a Hebrew actually Moses used the name of G-d to kill this egyptian. Zapping him, as it were, with magical killing power.
Now, you can take the infantile position that Moses actually did zap him with magical powers....................
OR you can realize what a Rabbi might say in order to calm down a Jew who reads the Torah seeing that Moses killed the Egyptian oppressor, I will go out tommorow morning and kill a few Roman soldiers.
But if you tell this person that in happened in some magical fashion and therefore such things can only be done in a magical fashion so don't go out and kill Romans, got it?
--- End quote ---
But how does one determine which midrashim to apply this to and which not to?
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
Although the one you mention does seem an obvious choice.
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