Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
why do torah related posts get hidden or removed and censored????
Raulmarrio2000:
As far as I know, it is not Hallachically forbidden for a Gentile to read the Tanach. What is in fact forbidden to us is to study Jewish Hallachot we may find in it. So it would be permissible to show the correct translation of any verse of the Tanach. (or if there are several possible true translations, to explain them). Neither is it forbidden to explain the Jewish view about the Mashiach since Gentiles are not forbidden to know it. We are forbidden to sudy Torah and Jewish Hallachot not incumbent to Noahides, but the hope of a future Mashiach may concern a Gentile as well.
Perhaps the reason to delete your posts is that, for the sake of peace, the admins prefer to avoid preaching to Gentiles, but not due to an Hallachic banning. It's permmited to encourage Gentiles to be Noahides, it's only forbidden to encourage them to convert to Judaism.
Ulli:
--- Quote from: MarZutra on August 26, 2008, 08:38:45 PM ---
--- Quote from: Lisa on August 26, 2008, 07:21:23 PM ---I moved it because I just did not understand why you would put up a video showing the killing of Jews by the Nazis. Also, the writing superimposed on the images was not legible at all.
And finally, we Jews have our way of interpreting our Bible. The Christians may have a different view of that Isaiah verse. Now I'm not a Christian. But from what I understand, there is a verse in Isaiah which they use to show Christ as the messiah. We Jews obviously have a difference of opinion.
So with that being said, let me remind you all that the purpose of this forum is not to tell Christians here that their interpretation of that verse is wrong. There are many other forums where people can discuss the differences between Judaism and Christianity and why Jews don't believe as the Christians do. This is not one of those places.
--- End quote ---
Lisa, I believe you are speaking of Isaiah 7:14. The Christian re-translation from the Latin says "a virgin shall give birth" as the origional Latin version of was taken from the Hebrew while the later translations stem directly from the Latin translation and not the directly from the Hebrew. The direct Hebrew of this specific portion says maiden; specifically speaking of a young woman/girl. Basically the translation stems from "Be-tu-la בתולה" and "Al-mah עלמה". Virgin and Maiden. The basic conclusion to the validity of/for the accuracy of the translation one must study Genesis 34 The Rape of Dinah. Prior to the actual rape of Dinah the Torah calls her a virgin while after the tragic event, Dinah is refered to as a maiden. By using the logic in this specific example and the actual Hebrew word used one will find that the Torah's and Tenach's linquistics and chosen word usage are identicle.
Two cents from Ol-MarZutra
--- End quote ---
Sorry MarZutra this with the retranslation from Vulgata is not correct. Actually the word virgin is written in the Septuaginta. This is a Jewish translation. The original Hebrew meaning is possible really young woman. But the vulgata is no translation directly from Hebrew but from the Septuaginta.
So the Jewish scholars are imo responsible, not the Christian. ;)
Althrough I agree on the fact, that people, not only in this case, read things in texts, that are not in there. Ask Jeremiah Wright ;D
Raulmarrio2000:
Yes, the Septuagint also has "Virgin" in that verse. I have heard that Ravs claim that the only section of the Septuagint which was translataed by the Sages is the Torah, and that the rest of the Tanach was translated by Christians. Anyway, the Septuagint was recopied and corrected several times since the ancient versions do not fit Greek grammar and have a lot of Hebrew syntax which is inintelligible in Greek. Some say to have found Latin translations of the Septuagint which have the Samaritan Tenth Comandment declaring Gerizim the Chosen Spot. It's a mystery how the Septuagint developed.
MarZutra:
Brothers and Sisters here...Again the Septuagint-Septuaginta are Latin-Greek translations, of and not the, origional Hebrew. If one grabs these same books, that have the Hebrew on one page and the English/Latin/Greek/French/Chinese or Arabic on the other one will see עלמה in this exact passage and not בתולה for the reasons stated above, and vice versa re: Gen 34.
I am not going to delve into the blame game if it was the Jews or the Christian/Catholic or the "Jewish" anti-Jew that bastardized the translation for religous, social or political gain back in the 1-3rd century Egypt, Rome, Greece....this is one subject that has been a simple tragedy for some and a blessing for others as it is the crux of one faith and an attack on another... Every anti-semite says that the Jews changed the Bible to suit their international world agenda to undermine Christianity...I believe the Qur'an actually attacks Christianity-Catholocism over this point as well the trinity...but that is Mohammadanism.
One need only go back to Gen 34. Dinah, logically, was a virgin prior to her rape and a young woman/maiden after the rape. This is simply a case of logic and chosen word usage. The Torah has used both as Isaiah.
Further, I have no interest in arguing or belaboring a point with our Christian brethren but explain the Jewishness surrounding this Tanachic passage. Isaiah 7:14 has nothing to do with predicting the birth of a future Mashiach but that Ahaz' young wife will bear a son, through Prophetic inspiration, will give him the name Immanuel, which means "G-d is with us", thus in effect prophesying that Judah will be saved from the threat of Rezin and Pekah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pekah
I hope this helps the Jews visiting the forum as well the Gentile's understanding from a Jewish perspective...
decimos:
well put.
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