Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
The Kabbalah is not a fashion statement
jaime:
I'm tired of you contantly provoking fights and pushing buttons saying things like "Even you Muman, a real layman, new to judaism, unscholarly, gullible, irrational" and "you have proven yourself to be dishonest, unable to reason, unable to understand a thing".
you are dead wrong about Muman. he is a good person. please do not disparage him again. you have been warned and anyone who engages in this behavior will be reported. no fighting with each other. we are going through the most difficult time of our lives. thank you.
Shlomo:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on November 05, 2008, 04:55:14 PM ---You know I couldn't care less about Muman "insulting" me.. I wasn't "goaded" by it.
It's fairly obvious that I had said everything I had to say to muman in the one post. I was clear in the post why it would only be one post where I responded to him.. It's a sharp clash but a brief one.
Muman made one post on the subject, initiating dialogue with me, and we know that doesn't work. I responded since it's a different subject. And it's quite obvious that I said all I had to say to him on the matter in the one post.
He responded but I had nothing more to say, and didn't reply. Incase it wasn't obvious.
But instead of PMing your concerns that this would be a long argument, and instead of using sense, people continue..
You are all actually exasperating the problem. It was already over AFTER others started posting for calm.
So my suggestion here is that people stop making repeated postings calling for calm. It is actually destroying "calm" and exasperating problems.
He initiated a dialogue with me.. I responded due to the subject matter. That was it. 1 post of mine and I had nothing more to say. So it was OVER.
And for the record, I didn't call zachor "stupid".
So don't jump in after 1 reply as if you are preventing a long 3 page argument. It wasn't ever going to happen. Though you might make it a 3 page thread on calling for calm.
--- End quote ---
q_q_,
Why do you have to defend yourself so aggressively? What is it you have to prove and to whom?
Do you want to know what people think when they see you calling people "ignorant", "unintelligent", or any demeaning word to anyone? They see emotion. They see someone who is unhappy and angry. It's hard for them not to think "who is this arrogant and pompous guy who calls people idiots all the time? Who does he think HE is?" and then they lose respect. That's human nature and people make these assumptions quickly. You don't NEED to respond in this manner, you WANT to. It's a WANT... not a NEED and that's all it is.
Logic would say that you care enough about people to know they are human and that everyone is different from you . Some know less about one thing and more than you on another. Logic would say you have control of your temper and care about the success of our forum over petty insults that mean nothing. Logic would tell you that people will disagree sometimes or say the wrong thing sometimes and that it's actually ok. Logic wouldn't pick fights... only pride, emotion, and ego with something to prove does.
It tells people non-verbally that you are insecure and need to defend yourself all the time regardless of whether it's true or not. No one likes a defensive person. It pushes people away and exasperates the problem. This is one of the reasons that the Torah tells us not to behave like this. We aren't supposed to be arrogant, cruel, or rude. It reminds me of something Rabbi Kahane use to quote from the Talmud: "Those that are kind to the cruel will eventually be cruel to the kind." I'm sorry, but even though I know you are a good Jew, your comments have been cruel.
You owe muman an apology. What you did was wrong. And it makes no difference if he did wrong... YOU are responsible for YOUR behavior and he is responsible for his. I have talked to him.
Now, please... let this rest and do not post when you are angry.
Daleksfearme:
A while back I attended an open house at the New York Kabbalah Center. In some ways this seemed almost more offensive than celebs that claim to be Kabbalists.
After only a very short introduction, anyone could simply purchase the entire text to bring home. The staff at the Center seem to have been told to push buying the texts even over attending more classes. With no oversight or background, how can anyone even begin to understand such a complex document? I think that this is one of the primary reasons why there are so many misconceptions about the Jewish Faith.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Daleksfearme on November 15, 2008, 05:34:10 PM ---A while back I attended an open house at the New York Kabbalah Center. In some ways this seemed almost more offensive than celebs that claim to be Kabbalists.
After only a very short introduction, anyone could simply purchase the entire text to bring home. The staff at the Center seem to have been told to push buying the texts even over attending more classes. With no oversight or background, how can anyone even begin to understand such a complex document? I think that this is one of the primary reasons why there are so many misconceptions about the Jewish Faith.
--- End quote ---
You've misunderstood the nature of reality.
The place you went to is a cult like place to get money from people. So they sell the Zohar for lots of $$$$$. I heard that one of the things they tell people is that if they just scan over the hebrew words with their eyes they get blessed.
Most people that have misconceptions of some kind about judaism, don't have it from sitting at home trying to read a "complex document" they got from the "kabbalah center"
Daleksfearme:
Your absolutely correct that center is a cult, and they did say that simply by having the texts in your home would lead to am improved life.
I think we are pretty much saying the same thing overall in that regard, I just truly amazes me how many misconceptions there really are.
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