Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on December 18, 2008, 01:59:01 PM ---They do not view the establishment of the State as part of any Messianic or End Times scenario.
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Hmmm. Interesting topic. I do not know nearly enough about this so I will defer to your judgment. But what matters is that Lubavitchim are devoutly Zionist in practice. They love their brothers and sisters more than anything else. In terms of everyday Jews one is likely to encounter, you won't meet anyone who loves their country and fellow Jews more than the Chabad.
In terms of "Messianic" and eschatological reasons for being Zionists, I admit I don't know a lot about this topic as applied to Judaism, but in a way I don't necessarily think that should be the reason why we support Israel in the first place. To explain what I mean using my own faith, some Christians primarily support Israel because they think it is necessary for the completion of the end times and the Second Coming of Jesus, and that is completely the wrong idea. We should support Israel simply because it is G-d's Chosen People and nation--it is as simple as that.
Getting back to the Chabad, even if they are anti-Zionist in theory, I will overlook that because their behavior and practice is what matters much more. A lot of left-wing, secular Jews support Israel in theory, but in practice want her to commit national suicide. I definitely support the Chabad a lot more than the Satmar and their Jewish Martin Luther "rabbi" Joel Teitelbaum, who to his last gasp labored feverishly to annihilate the Jewish nation and all of his brothers and sisters living there.
Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on December 18, 2008, 02:12:40 PM ---No, the haredi growth rate is atleast 50 percent higher.
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Isn't that a major problem, Judeanoncapta?
We all are yearning for the Israeli religious to become the majority of the nation, but how does that benefit us if most of these religious Jews are anti-Zionist, Ovadia Yosef-worshipping Agudah types who will simply parrot whatever their leaders say and would be willing to give their country away if they tell them "we ought to spare Arab lives whenever possible" and other such absurdities?
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: C.F. on December 18, 2008, 02:40:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on December 18, 2008, 02:12:40 PM ---No, the haredi growth rate is atleast 50 percent higher.
--- End quote ---
Isn't that a major problem, Judeanoncapta?
We all are yearning for the Israeli religious to become the majority of the nation, but how does that benefit us if most of these religious Jews are anti-Zionist, Ovadia Yosef-worshipping Agudah types who will simply parrot whatever their leaders say and would be willing to give their country away if they tell them "we ought to spare Arab lives whenever possible" and other such absurdities?
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You are an absurdity. G-d forbid that anyone should say that Jews having a high birth rate is a problem.
Anyway the topic is not about Haredim and the state, etc. It is about the nations getting ride of their klippot and accepting the Noahide laws that G-d has intended for them.
( It's also a simple video I came across and wanted to share).
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: C.F. on December 18, 2008, 02:40:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on December 18, 2008, 02:12:40 PM ---No, the haredi growth rate is atleast 50 percent higher.
--- End quote ---
Isn't that a major problem, Judeanoncapta?
We all are yearning for the Israeli religious to become the majority of the nation, but how does that benefit us if most of these religious Jews are anti-Zionist, Ovadia Yosef-worshipping Agudah types who will simply parrot whatever their leaders say and would be willing to give their country away if they tell them "we ought to spare Arab lives whenever possible" and other such absurdities?
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That is why I and machonshilo.org, an organization that I am one of the founding members of, work so hard to try and convince Haredi Jews that their views are not those of the Torah.
That's why I never give up on the Anti-Zionist Jews and just call them all Rodfim, because I used to be one and therefore I know that they can be reached.
Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on December 18, 2008, 02:48:54 PM ---You are an absurdity. G-d forbid that anyone should say that Jews having a high birth rate is a problem.
--- End quote ---
You do a stunning job of taking comments in context!
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