Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
muman613:
--- Quote from: Philip on December 18, 2008, 04:33:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: C.F. on December 18, 2008, 02:40:43 PM ---Isn't that a major problem, Judeanoncapta?
We all are yearning for the Israeli religious to become the majority of the nation, but how does that benefit us if most of these religious Jews are anti-Zionist, Ovadia Yosef-worshipping Agudah types who will simply parrot whatever their leaders say and would be willing to give their country away if they tell them "we ought to spare Arab lives whenever possible" and other such absurdities?
--- End quote ---
Most of these religious Jews are Zionists. This guy is a troll and shouldn't be taken seriously.
--- End quote ---
Do you even know what you are talking about? Have you read this thread?
Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks:
--- Quote from: Zelhar on December 18, 2008, 03:13:55 PM ---Tzvi is referring to all other religion as 'klippot' that should be shed. But this attitude is counter productive to this movement.
--- End quote ---
Isn't Christianity pretty much Noahidism by default?
muman613:
--- Quote from: C.F. on December 18, 2008, 04:41:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on December 18, 2008, 03:13:55 PM ---Tzvi is referring to all other religion as 'klippot' that should be shed. But this attitude is counter productive to this movement.
--- End quote ---
Isn't Christianity pretty much Noahidism by default?
--- End quote ---
Not exactly...
http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/466119/jewish/The-Seven-Noahide-Laws.htm
http://www.moshiach.com/action/morality/introduction.php
http://www.noahidenations.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=225&Itemid=57
http://www.noahidenations.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=344
There are some beliefs of Christianity which don't quite fit into Jewish belief...
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: muman613 on December 18, 2008, 04:22:37 PM ---Judeanoncapta,
I think you are not being fair to the Rabbis nor to their ideology.
I have heard and seen first hand that Chabad and Breslov both support moving Jews to Israel. Breslov has been in Israel for many years and they are actively working on gathering the Jews into Israel.
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I actually mentioned that about Breslov. But what I said about Chabad's position comes straight from the Rebbe's lips. Ask any Chabadnik "Did they Rebbe support Jewish people moving en masse to Eretz Yisrael?"
The answer is no.
--- Quote from: muman613 on December 18, 2008, 04:22:37 PM ---Judeanoncapta,Do the Rabbis come out and say to build the Temple? Not exactly. But there is a reason for this. Do you think that all we need to do is build a building called the "Beit Hamikdash" and suddenly the Schechina will occupy it?
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That is precisely what Exodus 25:8 says וְעָשׂוּ לִי, מִקְדָּשׁ; וְשָׁכַנְתִּי, בְּתוֹכָם. They shall build me a sanctuary and I will dwell amongst them.
--- Quote from: muman613 on December 18, 2008, 04:22:37 PM ---I am one who thinks that more than a building needs to be constructed. I believe that the world really needs to see the hand of Hashem {like during the Exodus from Mitzrayim} and must have absolute Emmunah {Faith} before the Schechina will dwell in the Temple.
--- End quote ---
The world saw the hand of Hashem during the Exodus and they didn't change all that much. To put the Torah on hold until not only the Jews are perfect but the ENTIRE WORLD is perfect. This idea is simply too much to take.
--- Quote from: muman613 on December 18, 2008, 04:22:37 PM ---Judeanoncapta,I believe that we are falling to the low levels we did while in Mitzrayim and a redemption similar to Hashems miraculous extraction of the Jews from the nation of Mitzrayim is at hand.
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That's why you need to study Torath Eretz Yisrael, so you will drop ideas like this.
The Talmudh Yerushalmi, which was written in Eretz Yisrael, compares the Future Redemption to the story of Purim, not the Exodus.
That's right, Purim. The one redemption where nothing supernatural happened at all.
The Exile Today is one of the mind and you don't need a miracle. You can free yourself.
Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on December 18, 2008, 03:47:23 PM ---You do not know what you are talking about, but only talking non-sense.
--- End quote ---
Yes Tzvi, everybody except you, your Agudah Charedim friends, and Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, who you worship, talk "nonsense". Mm-hmm.
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