Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
Ulli:
--- Quote from: C.F. on December 18, 2008, 04:41:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on December 18, 2008, 03:13:55 PM ---Tzvi is referring to all other religion as 'klippot' that should be shed. But this attitude is counter productive to this movement.
--- End quote ---
Isn't Christianity pretty much Noahidism by default?
--- End quote ---
It is in the purest form very near to Nohidism, but there is one major point, that is dividing the Jewish theological system from the Christian.
Jews didn't believe, that god became human, suffered under the hand of Pontius Pilatus for the sins of the people who believe in him and that he defeated death on the third day with the promise that his fellows will do this exactly like him.
It is against the Jewish dogma of the indivisibleness and divine dignity of god.
There is no possibility to bridge the deep abyss between this two religions without violating the one or the other.
We all have to accept it C.F.
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: C.F. on December 18, 2008, 05:08:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: muman613 on December 18, 2008, 05:01:55 PM ---C.F,
This is uncalled for... I generally respect everyones opinion here.. And I am also supporting Tzvis argument... The truth is that following Torah is not a simple proposition. We need to be sensitive to our fellow Jews feelings {Ahavas Yisroel} and yet we need to firmly rebuke those who wish to follow but have missed the mark {Chet}.
There is nothing gained by exhibiting so much anger in insulting another person. I will stand up and defend just about everyone in this forum because I believe we all share a common goal. The Torah holds in high regard the middot of Bitul {self nullification} and Tzniut {Modesty}. Read the story of Yaakov and Essau and notice that as Great as Yaakov was he still bowed to Essau because he knew that this world was not for him but the next world is.
--- End quote ---
Muman, that was you and Judeanoncapta that he was insulting when I responded to that. He said that what the two of you were saying was "non-sense".
--- End quote ---
I'm pretty sure he was addressing my comments only actually.
Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks:
--- Quote from: Pheasant on December 18, 2008, 05:12:15 PM ---It is in the purest form very near to Nohidism, but there is one major point, that is dividing the Jewish theological system from the Christian.
Jews didn't believe, that G-d became human, suffered under the hand of Pontius Pilatus for the sins of the people who believe in him and that he defeated death on the third day with the promise that his fellows will do this exactly like him.
It is against the Jewish dogma of the indivisibleness and divine dignity of G-d.
There is no possibility to bridge the deep abyss between this two religions without violating the one or the other.
We all have to accept it C.F.
--- End quote ---
I didn't mean to cause a Jewish-Christian conflict, and apologize if my post did that. I guess I should have said "isn't Christianity in some ways Noahidism by default".
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: C.F. on December 18, 2008, 05:11:06 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on December 18, 2008, 05:09:07 PM ---That seems to have been averted because C.F. is basically a moderate.
--- End quote ---
What do you mean by I am a "moderate"? You gave a perfectly fine answer, and that was that.
--- End quote ---
I actually meant that in a good way. Kind of a play on what Rabbi Kahane said when he quoted from the book of Joshua about all of the wiping out of the Canaanites, and said "I just want to expel the Arabs, because I'm basically a moderate."
I know when you hear the word moderate, weasels like McCain and Arlen Spector and other assorted rifraff usually are what comes to mind.
But I actually meant it in a good way. A term of endearment, actually.
Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on December 18, 2008, 05:17:29 PM ---I actually meant that in a good way. Kind of a play on what Rabbi Kahane said when he quoted from the book of Joshua about all of the wiping out of the Canaanites, and said "I just want to expel the Arabs, because I'm basically a moderate."
I know when you hear the word moderate, weasels like McCain and Arlen Spector and other assorted rifraff usually are what comes to mind.
But I actually meant it in a good way. A term of endearment, actually.
--- End quote ---
OK, well thank you, then. :) I knew you meant it in a good way, I just didn't actually understand your context.
But you have a good point. We ARE all moderates using HaRav Meir Kahane (zt"l)'s definition. G-d commanded Israel to completely wipe out the Canaanite/Amalekite/Midianite/Jebusite proto-Muslim Nazis. We only want to remove their descendants, the Arab Nazis, from Israel. The fact is that G-d would be commanding a shoah against the Muslim Nazi Amalekites today if He were directly speaking to Israel today. But, we do not believe in or advocate that.
But while on this subject, why do you think, since you live in Israel and have been exposed to many sick, secular leftists, that so many average Israelis believe Arabs have "civil rights" and have a legitimate "historical claim" to a Fakestine state? According to opinion polls even done by the Left, the vast majority of Israelis do know the Arabs want to kill them all--and yet they believe that they still have rights and certain entitlements. Is this purely explained by secularism and moral relativism (which is what I assume), or is there something else there that I am not aware of as a Western Gentile?
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