Neturei Karta 'Honors' Sabbath with Anti-Israeli Muslims

[muman613]

Hello,

This is the sad news I read after I finish a quiet Shabbat afternoon...

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129197

Neturei Karta 'Honors' Sabbath with Anti-Israeli Muslims
Tevet 7, 5769, 03 January 09 08:10
by Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu

(IsraelNN.com) Members of the anti-Zionist and hareidi-religious Neturei Karta in Britain spent the Sabbath walking several miles to join thousands of Muslims, leftists and anarchists in a massive anti-Israeli protest.

Neturei Karta rabbis in New York called on followers to demonstrate "their outrage at the Zionist state of 'Israel' and its atrocities against the inhabitants of Gaza" in protests scheduled across from the United Nations on Sunday.

Nearly 12,000 demonstrators marched on Number 10 Downing Street, the official home of Prime Minister Gordon Brown, and hundreds of people threw shoes, imitating a similar action by an Iraqi journalist two weeks ago in Iraq at a press conference held by United States President George W. Bush.

Among those calling for a halt to Israel's effort to stop terrorist fire on civilians on southern Israel was former London Mayor Ken Livingstone, who recently lost his bid for re-election.

Prime Minister Brown spoke with outgoing Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in an appeal for Israel to end the counterterrorist offensive in Gaza. "Too many have died, and we need space to get humanitarian supplies to those who need them," according to the British leader.

Israeli's reply was not reported, but Olmert and the Security Cabinet rejected a French proposal for a temporary ceasefire, saying that their claim of the need for aid is bogus. Israel has supervised the transfer of hundreds of trucks with medical supplies and other goods into Gaza this week.

 
Worldwide and Israeli Protests
Other protests throughout major European capitals and across the United States castigated Israel. More than 20,000 protested in Paris.

The only official vocal support for Israel came from United States President George W. Bush, who continued to blame Hamas for the Israeli retaliation.

In the northern Galilee, more than 10,000 Arabs and Jewish and foreign anarchists showed support for Gaza Arabs. Similar protests, including the burning of America and Israel flags, took place through Arab cities in Judea and Samaria.
 
Arab Knesset Member Jamal Zahalka (Balad) called for charges of "war crimes" against Olmert, Defense Minister Ehud Barak, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni and IDF Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi.

Israel Is Our Home (Yisrael Beiteinu) supports held counter demonstrations, with sings exclaiming, "No citizenship without loyalty!"

Likud activists and anti-government demonstrators faced each other in Rabin Square in Tel Aviv.


Who is going to defend these poor excuse for Jews. There is no religious excuse to join with the enemies in violating Shabbat.

Shame on NK and all who follow their crooked Rabbis. What a Chillul Hashem for people to look at these people and think they are Jewish. I join with others who are calling for a full-out excommunication of the NK from the Jewish people. These evil black-hats need to be ejected from normal Judaism and maybe some followers will wake up.

[New Yorker]

"Who is going to defend these poor excuse for Jews. There is no religious excuse to join with the enemies in violating Shabbat.

Shame on NK and all who follow their crooked Rabbis. What a Chillul Hashem for people to look at these people and think they are Jewish. I join with others who are calling for a full-out excommunication of the NK from the Jewish people. These evil black-hats need to be ejected from normal Judaism and maybe some followers will wake up."

Spot on! They are Judenrat!!! 

[cjd]

Try not to let it bother you to much muman people like that clearly have something wrong with them. The worst part of the whole thing is that most non Jews seeing them believe that they are true religious Jews and it gives them more credibility then they actually deserve. They really make me sick to see them how can they stand with Arabs when Israel is at war.

[New Yorker]

They should be shunned and condemned by all Jews!

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

They already broke Shabb-t when they were on t.v. on Shabb-t.
 
  And they are already excommunicated by the Jewish people and Jewish community. Let's not give them attention becuase they are nothing and hated anyway.
  And one thing about "black hats", I'm not black hat or anything like that, but dont call them "black hats" becuase it gives a false impression on all the other religious Jews who wear black hats and have nothing to do with them (most hate them anyway), and it gives the impression that their are many of them when maybe their is only 200 or soo of these traitors.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Watch this video on them

[q_q_]

this is very bad, and they do it on shabbat because they know that jews won't turn up to counter them.  (jews that support israel would usually keep shabbat. Secular jews tend not to care about israel)

just like the bastards at the BBC have put anti-israel programs on on shabbat or holy days like rosh hashana or yom kippur.. so jews don't watch them and complain.

[cjd]

Watch this video on them

The video about says it all.

[q_q_]

Watch this video on them

The video about says it all.

the video says alot, much of it is important - though jews should really know about the main part of it anyway, but it is a bit of propaganda itself. Some of that video is propaganda and I guarantee that Tzvi  doesn't agree with everything in it. But since it's anti- neturei karta, and he just wants people to be anti them, he doesn't care.  The part that is propaganda is where the video lets neturei karta talk about how non zionists are not anti-semitic. As if they are with them, and the video doesn't deal with that point. So it suggests that all non or anti-zionists are a minority of 200.  And the video showed the board the guy had up, saying "end of zionism = peace", as if it's a message unique to neturei karta. The truth is that many non zionists would agree. Infact, even rabbi kahane would have agreed, it's just not his solution to end zionism. He once said "You want a peace plan? I have an instant solution. Give up israel.  But it's not my solution".  Or with the 1929 massacres of jews..he said "what was bothering the arabs in 1929? an idea. Zionism...".
 It's not a very intellectual video.. though tzvi's videos never are.

It does make some good points though, most of them we know.. The main one is them breaking shabbat.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Watch this video on them

The video about says it all.

the video says alot, much of it is important - though jews should really know about the main part of it anyway, but it is a bit of propaganda itself. Some of that video is propaganda and I guarantee that Tzvi  doesn't agree with everything in it. But since it's anti- neturei karta, and he just wants people to be anti them, he doesn't care.

 I dont know what exactly you are referring to. Right now I am watching and hearing something else, but if you want to tell me what exactly then maybe I can say my opinion. (you can pm me if you like or here I dont care).

[q_q_]

I've been editting my post above as you wrote that, the description is there...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

It's not a very intellectual video.. though tzvi's videos never are.

What a bright ray of sunshine coming from the most pro-NK member of this forum. 

[q_q_]

It's not a very intellectual video.. though tzvi's videos never are.

What a bright ray of sunshine coming from the most pro-NK member of this forum. 

when you say that, given your history, it's very slimy..

nobody here is pro neturei karta

here, i'll demonstrate why i've said you are slimy.

answer this simple question C.F.

**Am I Pro Neturei Karta ?  ** (Yes or No)

you have a history of avoiding these simple questions.
here was a previous thread where you avoided them
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,30165.msg311084.html#msg311084
referring of course to another instance where you avoided them.

So be honest here.  If you want to talk about this, then don't ignore previous discussions on the matter

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

when you say that, given your history, it's very slimy..

nobody here is pro neturei karta

here, i'll demonstrate why i've said you are slimy.

answer this simple question C.F.

Surely you can create some other insults besides this. Show some creativity.

**Am I Pro Neturei Karta ?  ** (Yes or No)

Since you insist that I answer, yes.

you have a history of avoiding these simple questions.
here was a previous thread where you avoided them
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,30165.msg311084.html#msg311084
referring of course to another instance where you avoided them.

So be honest here.  If you want to talk about this, then don't ignore previous discussions on the matter

Get over yourself, not everybody can spend 24 hours/day in front of a computer; it's called having a life, not dodging your simple (so simple in fact they are like what a five-year-old would come up with in a playground argument) questions.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Olmert and the Security Cabinet rejected a French proposal for a temporary ceasefire, saying that their claim of the need for aid is bogus. Israel has supervised the transfer of hundreds of trucks with medical supplies and other goods into Gaza this week.

Chaim, surely you would agree that this is evidence that the Kadima government has no interest in defeating even only Hamas. I told you that this is a completely phony war that Olmert will lose on purpose just like the Lebanon War 2 1/2 years ago.

[q_q_]

<snip>

**Am I Pro Neturei Karta ?  ** (Yes or No)

Since you insist that I answer, yes.
<snip>

very good, now you are being less slimy

in the future, when you want to make these claims, QUOTE ME.

Infact, in my very first post on the forum about neturei karta, I said

"
....They are totaly corrupt, their position is not legitimate. They stand with muslim terrorists and their leader was even given money by arafat!! ..."
"  [1]

From your posts, you see Hitler and Satmar as closely connected..

Tell me.. would you still call the Satmar Rebbe a "kapo Nazi" ? [2]

And since you want to bring up all this NK nonsense without quoting me.

Tell me. Do you still believe , the idea that could only have come from nazi websites , that I , or jews on this forum that you don't like, believe we are the master race ? [3]

[1] http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,346.0.html


[2] http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,23193.msg249545.html#msg249545

[3] http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,29604.msg308747.html#msg308747

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

OK since you like questions, answer one now, who was I addressing in those comments?

It's a one-word answer, probably too simple for your erudite tastes, but that's all that is needed in this case, okay?

[q_q_]

OK since you like questions, answer one now, who was I addressing in those comments?

It's a one-word answer, probably too simple for your erudite tastes, but that's all that is needed in this case, okay?

Me

(if you want one word, but it's not a one word thing, because you weren't just addressing me)

In the master race comments? me and tzvi.
look
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,29604.msg308747.html#msg308747

Ask  questions with one word answers if you like, but don't do it to hide facts.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Me

(if you want one word, but it's not a one word thing, because you weren't just addressing me)

In the master race comments? me and tzvi.
look
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,29604.msg308747.html#msg308747

The smartarsedness notwithstanding, thanks for fulfilling a simple request.

Now, care to interpret these?

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,23535.msg251439.html#msg251439

at least neturei karta are honest.

And they don't want to kill jews. 

If you had any real criticism for them, then fine. I do too. But all I see is you taking the piss.
Or as we also say in britain , "taking the mickey". I see you have neither of these expressions in america
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_the_piss

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,23535.msg251444.html#msg251444

neturei karta pray for the peaceful dismantlement of the state.
And they do so in front of arabs.
And always say they want it done peacefully.

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,23535.msg251455.html#msg251455

They do not deny the holocaust.
(I have heard one neturei karta type guy in one youtube video refer to "so-called holocaust". A weird expression to use, and one that most would not use. They have issues with the word israel, or even - depending on context - the term eretz yisrael.   Most of them are ashkenazi and have had relatives die in the holocaust. They don't deny it and are on record many times saying they do not deny it. The idea that they deny it is clearly a fabrication against them. They did attend a holocaust denial conference.  So did barry chamish plan to. But he is not a holocaust denier. He just wanted to spread his message.   )
If  you listened to them in their own words, and I don't think you  have the ability to understand different mentalities, it is too intricate, and you lack the philosophically-logical skills to do so, but if you could, then you would not be accusing them of denying the holocaust.


Don't expect that a bunch of people with black hats and beards  marching with the enemy, would mean the same thing as a normally dressed person doing it. They have their own ideology. Very very alien to anything you are familiar with.  And they have their ideas about how to interact with gentiles.

Don't you have a press conference on Iranian TV to get ready for now? I'm through with this for the evening, it's 11 my time and I have other things to do; maybe you'll learn what that experience is like one of these days.

[Daleksfearme]

The people that Neturei Karta are embracing have repeatedly stated that all Jews are to be killed. Sounds like a suicide cult in disguise...Maybe we should send in some kool aid.

[q_q_]

Me

(if you want one word, but it's not a one word thing, because you weren't just addressing me)

In the master race comments? me and tzvi.
look
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,29604.msg308747.html#msg308747

The smartarsedness notwithstanding, thanks for fulfilling a simple request.

Now, care to interpret these?

So what was the significant of your question?

what's your conclusion..

Indeed. You were accusing me and tzvi of calling ourselves the master race.. This idea is the kind of thing one gets straight from a nazi website.

at least neturei karta are honest.

And they don't want to kill jews. 

If you had any real criticism for them, then fine. I do too. But all I see is you taking the piss.
Or as we also say in britain , "taking the mickey". I see you have neither of these expressions in america
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_the_piss

(and you provided the link
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,23535.msg251444.html#msg251444

the interpetation is very clear, infact, I say in my next post in that thread

"neturei karta pray for the peaceful dismantlement of the state.
And they do so in front of arabs.
And always say they want it done peacefully.

Ahmedinejad, threatened to wipe israel off the map. (though they don't seem to think he said so).

Neturei Karta stand with arab terrorists, that's the problem."

BTW,
That was july 2008.. There was something new that came up in Dec 2008 which really makes NK look worse than that..where one of them was asked if israel should be eliminated, and he said Yes, preferably peacefully. This is a departure from their standard line.  That was from the branch with rabbi dovid weiss , and Weiss was sitting there.   I posted about it at the time.

  
 

neturei karta pray for the peaceful dismantlement of the state.
And they do so in front of arabs.
And always say they want it done peacefully.

CF provided link -
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,23535.msg251455.html#msg251455

see above.

They do not deny the holocaust.
(I have heard one neturei karta type guy in one youtube video refer to "so-called holocaust". A weird expression to use, and one that most would not use. They have issues with the word israel, or even - depending on context - the term eretz yisrael.   Most of them are ashkenazi and have had relatives die in the holocaust. They don't deny it and are on record many times saying they do not deny it. The idea that they deny it is clearly a fabrication against them. They did attend a holocaust denial conference.  So did barry chamish plan to. But he is not a holocaust denier. He just wanted to spread his message.   )
If  you listened to them in their own words, and I don't think you  have the ability to understand different mentalities, it is too intricate, and you lack the philosophically-logical skills to do so, but if you could, then you would not be accusing them of denying the holocaust.


Don't expect that a bunch of people with black hats and beards  marching with the enemy, would mean the same thing as a normally dressed person doing it. They have their own ideology. Very very alien to anything you are familiar with.  And they have their ideas about how to interact with gentiles.

this is all very true..  The last paragraph needs a slight update, given the new information.   But they do indeed have their own ideology of submission..
The opposite of kahanism.

Do you claim that Neturei Karta -do- deny the holocaust? (yes or no)

now quoting C.F.

Don't you have a press conference on Iranian TV to get ready for now? I'm through with this for the evening, it's 11 my time and I have other things to do; maybe you'll learn what that experience is like one of these days.

this is your classic slimy behaviour,  you put on a facade of a semi-serious discussion. As if you are interested in the facts, and then you throw the same nonsense out regardless.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

You were accusing me and tzvi of calling ourselves the master race.. This idea is the kind of thing one gets straight from a nazi website.

So you are admitting that your view of yourself comes from the philosophy of Nazi websites?

There was something new that came up in Dec 2008 which really makes NK look worse than that..where one of them was asked if israel should be eliminated, and he said Yes, preferably peacefully. This is a departure from their standard line.  That was from the branch with rabbi dovid weiss , and Weiss was sitting there.   I posted about it at the time.

The fact that you don't see a problem with this means I really have no reason to converse with you any further.

this is your classic slimy behaviour,  you put on a facade of a semi-serious discussion. As if you are interested in the facts, and then you throw the same nonsense out regardless.

I thought I requested that you work on the creativity of your insults.

[q_q_]

You were accusing me and tzvi of calling ourselves the master race.. This idea is the kind of thing one gets straight from a nazi website.

So you are admitting that your view of yourself comes from the philosophy of Nazi websites?

Explain what you mean by master race.. Obviously you mean jews are my race, gentiles aren't.

Quote me if you think I believe myself superior to gentiles.

This is a serious accusation.

You though have accused some jews here of thinking themselves as a master race.

There was something new that came up in Dec 2008 which really makes NK look worse than that..where one of them was asked if israel should be eliminated, and he said Yes, preferably peacefully. This is a departure from their standard line.  That was from the branch with rabbi dovid weiss , and Weiss was sitting there.   I posted about it at the time.

The fact that you don't see a problem with this means I really have no reason to converse with you any further.

you are lying again..

I am  and was at the time, disgusted at the NK comment.
 


Now after all your analysis.

I've addressed your arguments.

Do you think that I support neturei karta? (Yes or No)

If Yes.. then  Where have you shown it? i.e. What argument have you given here that shows it.

[DownwithIslam]

Q_Q, the Neturei Karta met with Ahmadinejad who certainly doesn't want to destroy Israel "peacefully" so what the hell are you talking about. Ahmadinejad denies the Holocaust and openly says that he will slaughter the Yahudim and he was warmly embraced on numerous occasions by the NK. Knowing this, the only thing that should come out of your mouth in regards to them is the "F" word and other profanities.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

This is a serious accusation.

You though have accused some jews here of thinking themselves as a master race.

Who would "some Jews" be? Answer the question, and don't be "slimy".

you are lying again..

I am  and was at the time, disgusted at the NK comment.

Sure.
 

Do you think that I support neturei karta? (Yes or No)

To use a legal term in the United States, asked and answered. Have a good day...