Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Hakamim that rejected Kabbalah
Shlomo:
Awesome discussion.
Lubab, I have thought these things about angels for a long time and it makes everything much more clear and logical.
Even when someone says something kind to someone and it effects them in a positive way... then they are kind to someone else and it continues. I would consider this type of "force" set forth into motion a type of angel (as stated when someone "creates" good or bad angels). But I do believe that there is an even deeper spiritual level to these entities that we cannot perceive and that they do have a type of "life" from Hashem.
Sefardic Panther:
Kahane-Was-Right BT don’t accuse me of lashon hara!!! I avoided lashon hara by not naming any names.
I did not state as fact that any Kabbalah sceptic Rabbi is a closet Kabbalist. I know Kabbalah is true and I don’t know how any Rabbi can totally reject it, so I speculate could their public rejection of Kabbalah be similar to what parents tell their children when they ask where do babies come from? All I am trying to do is to reconcile opposing interpretations. 2 Jews 3 opinions may be good for most secular issues but there ought to be consistency with Torah. If you are a rationalistic Kabbalah rejector how do you explain the crossing of the Yam Suf and all other miracles in the Tanak?
I can never post anything on this forum without someone disputing me. If pro Kabbalistic opinions are not tolerated then fine. I am not going to waste time trying to prove something which so many Hakamim knew was true and they were far bigger than anyone in the world today!!! And don’t bother replying with “the Rambam was a big Hakam too and he rejected Kabbalistic doctrines” that is just not an equally valid point because the Rambam is the exception not the rule.
Q_Q_ DON’T CALL ME A FOOL!!! You don’t even know me and you would’nt want to know me!!! The condescending armchair hakam may intimidate the semi observant but I know better.
q_q_:
Sefardic panther: you are changing the subject.
just stop repeating the argument that this big rabbi says . And are you are bigger than that rabbi. It has been answered many times. And I don't think you are the biggest person here in Torah, so you could choose not to dispute people here.
I do believe in the miracles in tenach.. (tenach was a public revelation).
WHO HERE DOES NOT?
Believing that does not mean that I accept a private revelation as having the same weight.
That's the main reason why I don't take kabbalah as seriously as classical judaism.. the Torah-oral and written, as recieved by Moshe.
And others here have expressed the same reason.
Don't assume that we are like you, just following personalities. Many here seek truth.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Sefardic Panther on January 17, 2009, 10:39:02 PM ---Kahane-Was-Right BT don’t accuse me of lashon hara!!! I avoided lashon hara by not naming any names.
--- End quote ---
It was tongue-in-cheek what I said. I'm surprised you didn't pick up on it. I'm implying that calling a rabbi a secret kabbalist is lashon hara. That was a joke. Although I do feel there is a kernel of truth in it.
But I didn't actually think you were doing lashon hara per se.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Sefardic Panther on January 17, 2009, 10:39:02 PM ---. 2 Jews 3 opinions may be good for most secular issues but there ought to be consistency with Torah.
--- End quote ---
There are plenty of cases in the Talmud, (containing the elements of Torah she baal peh now codified), where there is a significant machloketh (disagreement) between different rabbis, who have different opinions on the same issue.
--- Quote --- If you are a rationalistic Kabbalah rejector how do you explain the crossing of the Yam Suf and all other miracles in the Tanach?
--- End quote ---
Why do I have to be a kabbalist to accept that miracles happened/happen? This is absurd and a straw man argument. Of course the splitting of the sea occurred because Hashem has the power to do anything in the world, and he is not bound by the natural order or natural law (unlike some secular philosophers want to claim). And it is written in the Torah explicitly, which is quite good evidence.
I'm not sure where you get this kind of idea. Here's a very clear example in case you wish to dispute what I just wrote. As the classic example I've brought many times now, The Rambam was not a kabbalist and he clearly believed that Hashem parted the sea. What's your kashya?
--- Quote ---I can never post anything on this forum without someone disputing me.
--- End quote ---
No, not when you post sheker.
--- Quote --- If pro Kabbalistic opinions are not tolerated then fine.
--- End quote ---
What's the matter, you can't deal with the arguments against? That shows what a flimsy belief you must have.
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