Author Topic: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest  (Read 2910 times)

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Offline mord

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 Today he lifted it




here are widespread rumours that Pope Benedict XVI is about to remove the excommunications on the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and the four bishops consecrated by the rebel traditionalist prelate in 1988. But is that wise? For, as Ruth Gledhill reports, the lifting of the excommunication would coincide with further evidence that h

The film above says it all. Williamson, a smarmy, intellectually conceited old Wykhamist, has given an interview to Swedish TV in which he says that the gas chambers did not exist. The Catholic website Creative Minority Report reckons that Williamson has deliberately brought up the subject again in order to make it impossible for Pope Benedict to end the schismatic status of the Society of St Pius X. It begs Bishop Bernard Fellay, head of the SSPX, to expel Williamson.

Just imagine the consequences if the Pope were to bring the Lefebvrists back into the fold while a vicious Holocaust denier was still one of their bishops. The damage done to the Holy Father's reputation would be catastrophic. And, even if Williamson is thrown out beforehand, the fact remains that the SSPX has always known that this horrible man has Far Right views. He has been denying the existence of the gas chambers for many years.

And yet the SSPX did nothing, other than moving Williamson out of the way of the media. The membership, by and large, said nothing.

Why is it always assumed by traditionalist Catholics that the healing of the Lefebvrist schism would be a great blessing? Williamson may be the Society's most prominent Holocaust revisionist, but he is not the only one. In France, the organisation is riddled with Vichyite anti-Semitism (though I should add say that its ranks also include good and devout people).


He lifted it   more
                      


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/damian_thompson/blog/2009/01/24/benedict_and_the_sspx_the_backlash_begins
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 08:03:06 PM by mord »
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Offline Ulli

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2009, 09:25:53 PM »
His goal is to unite the catholic church again.

But this special group he wants to reunite with the Roman Catholic Church is not righteous.

Beside from the point of revisonism they are very hostile to Jews. Not because they want them convert, but generally.

The members of this group are the servants of the Muzz.

Proof: http://www.kreuz.net/article.8545.html

I am not up for translating it.

Summary: The Israeli crimes in so called Palestina are worse than the Nazi crimes against the Jews.

Commentary is not necessary - I think.
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Offline Rubystars

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2009, 09:29:18 PM »
I think it's very sad that he feels this way. His actions are appalling.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2009, 09:55:19 PM »
Oh well, it's not like the Pope speaks for the entire Catholic Church.

I feel really sad for our Catholic members having to put up with this guy.

Offline Ulli

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2009, 09:56:22 PM »
Oh well, it's not like the Pope speaks for the entire Catholic Church.

I think it was not his aim to support this kind of oppinion (The revisonisim and really primitive Jewhate)

He wanted to get them back, like he is obligated to according to unite the only real church.

But you cannot bring all kind of people under one hat.

Imo the right option is to seperate from them.

I believe in strict double predestination, so this is the only natural solution.

If someone is lost, no one will be able to bring him back.

Sad but true.
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Offline eb22

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 10:29:56 PM »
Oh well, it's not like the Pope speaks for the entire Catholic Church.


Agreed.     


The same is the case regarding the elected officials of the United States not speaking for the American people .   And the elected officials of Israel not speaking for the Israeli people.     The vast majority of JTF members are supportive of the American and Israeli people.    Yet,  oppose the current Administrations in both countries and many,  if not most,  of the previous administrations.
"Israel's leaders seem to be more afraid of Obama than they are of G-d. Now we're getting to the real root of the problem. Secular politics won't save Israel. Denying the divine nature of the Jewish State has brought Israel neither stability nor peace. When that changes Israel will finally be blessed with both in abundance"-----------NormanF   ( Posted on Israel Matzav's Blog )

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Offline cjd

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2009, 11:00:27 PM »
This is clearly a bad decision for the pope to do this. The positions this priest took are totally unacceptable for any clergy to hold. This priest is clearly a disgrace and the Pope looses a great deal of credibility in any outreach to the Jewish people by lifting the excommunication. This is the sort of thing if true that comes back to haunt the RC Church.
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Offline muman613

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2009, 11:04:21 PM »
This is one of the reasons my opinion of the Catholic Church is so harsh. The pope does speak for all Catholics, his decisions are considered divine by his followers. There are many reasons for a Jew to be very, very wary of anything this 'organization' called the Catholic Church says and does. Its history is very dark and evil to the Jewish people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope#Status_and_authority

Quote
First Vatican Council

The status and authority of the Pope in the Catholic Church was dogmatically defined by the First Vatican Council on 18 July 1870. In its Dogmatic Constitution of the Church of Christ, the Council established the following canons:[29]

"If anyone says that the blessed Apostle Peter was not established by the Lord Christ as the chief of all the apostles, and the visible head of the whole militant Church, or, that the same received great honour but did not receive from the same our Lord Jesus Christ directly and immediately the primacy in true and proper jurisdiction: let him be anathema.[30]

If anyone says that it is not from the institution of Christ the Lord Himself, or by divine right that the blessed Peter has perpetual successors in the primacy over the universal Church, or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in the same primacy, let him be anathema.[31]

If anyone thus speaks, that the Roman Pontiff has only the office of inspection or direction, but not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the universal Church, not only in things which pertain to faith and morals, but also in those which pertain to the discipline and government of the Church spread over the whole world; or, that he possesses only the more important parts, but not the whole plenitude of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate, or over the churches altogether and individually, and over the pastors and the faithful altogether and individually: let him be anathema.[32]

We, adhering faithfully to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith, to the glory of God, our Saviour, the elevation of the Catholic religion and the salvation of Christian peoples, with the approbation of the sacred Council, teach and explain that the dogma has been divinely revealed: that the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra, that is, when carrying out the duty of the pastor and teacher of all Christians by virtue of his supreme apostolic authority he defines a doctrine of faith or morals to be held by the universal Church, through the divine assistance promised him in blessed Peter, operates with that infallibility with which the divine Redeemer wished that His church be instructed in defining doctrine on faith and morals; and so such definitions of the Roman Pontiff from himself, but not from the consensus of the Church, are unalterable. But if anyone presumes to contradict this definition of Ours, which may God forbid: let him be anathema."
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline GoIsraelGo!

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2009, 11:19:46 PM »
Today he lifted it




here are widespread rumours that Pope Benedict XVI is about to remove the excommunications on the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and the four bishops consecrated by the rebel traditionalist prelate in 1988. But is that wise? For, as Ruth Gledhill reports, the lifting of the excommunication would coincide with further evidence that h

The film above says it all. Williamson, a smarmy, intellectually conceited old Wykhamist, has given an interview to Swedish TV in which he says that the gas chambers did not exist. The Catholic website Creative Minority Report reckons that Williamson has deliberately brought up the subject again in order to make it impossible for Pope Benedict to end the schismatic status of the Society of St Pius X. It begs Bishop Bernard Fellay, head of the SSPX, to expel Williamson.

Just imagine the consequences if the Pope were to bring the Lefebvrists back into the fold while a vicious Holocaust denier was still one of their bishops. The damage done to the Holy Father's reputation would be catastrophic. And, even if Williamson is thrown out beforehand, the fact remains that the SSPX has always known that this horrible man has Far Right views. He has been denying the existence of the gas chambers for many years.

And yet the SSPX did nothing, other than moving Williamson out of the way of the media. The membership, by and large, said nothing.

Why is it always assumed by traditionalist Catholics that the healing of the Lefebvrist schism would be a great blessing? Williamson may be the Society's most prominent Holocaust revisionist, but he is not the only one. In France, the organisation is riddled with Vichyite anti-Semitism (though I should add say that its ranks also include good and devout people).


He lifted it   more
                      


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/damian_thompson/blog/2009/01/24/benedict_and_the_sspx_the_backlash_begins


This Pope was a Hitler youth at one time. I am surprised because the Pope claims he didn't want to be a part of the Nazis or the Hitler Youth.
If his claims were genuine, then why would he lift the excommunication for those Anti Semetic Priests?
Something is wrong in Denmark !

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Offline Lisa

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2009, 11:24:08 PM »
A few months ago, the Orthodox Park East Synagogue, whose rabbi Chaim detests, invited the Pope for a visit. 

Offline cjd

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2009, 11:30:21 PM »
A hundred years ago I would agree with you muman however today most of the churches followers form their own opinions and really don't follow the Pope's policies. As you see issues such as birth control and other social issues the Pope's influence only goes so far today. People are better educated and don't really need the church to tell them what to think. The church's history is what it is but I think a great deal of progress has been made in the past century in its relations with other religions. The church makes thousands of decisions a year on policy like this they are going to make bad ones from time to time. The Pope is the head of the RC Church but he does not speak for all its followers.
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Offline muman613

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2009, 11:47:16 PM »
A hundred years ago I would agree with you muman however today most of the churches followers form their own opinions and really don't follow the Pope's policies. As you see issues such as birth control and other social issues the Pope's influence only goes so far today. People are better educated and don't really need the church to tell them what to think. The church's history is what it is but I think a great deal of progress has been made in the past century in its relations with other religions. The church makes thousands of decisions a year on policy like this they are going to make bad ones from time to time. The Pope is the head of the RC Church but he does not speak for all its followers.

Around here we call them 'wanna-be' Catholics because in order to be a real anything one must follow the letter of the law. In Judaism we have denominations called 'Reform' and 'Conservative', but from my vantage point of Orthodoxy those strains are not even Judaism. We base Judaism on whether or not one lives a Torah lifestyle. I apply the same kind of comparison to other religions. There are Catholics, who listen to the dogma of the Catholic church, there are Muslims who listen to the rantings of a raving criminal as if it is prophecy and those who don't are not Muslims {by the Koran they are infidels who die with the rest of us}. People who think they are religious and don't follow the rules of the religion are just fooling themselves.

All 'righteous' people do what they are expected to do. As a Jew I don't eat pork, and I don't eat milk and meat mixtures, I observe the seventh day in all its minutia {at least to the best of my ability}. If I dont do these things then I am not meeting the expectation of being an Orthodox observant Jew. I would think that a Catholic would obey the pope because he is the 'head' {in hebrew it is called the ROSH} of the institution. If you don't believe in Catholicism then find something else. We 'righteous' people do support the right to life of the unborn. In Judaism it is not as big of an issue but basically we agree with the religions which ascribe life to be sacred.

In Judaism we have no 'head' who speaks for all of us. We dont have prophets alive today who speak to our L-rd. There is the belief in Catholicism the the Pope is infallible. I quoted from the Vatican council and there it is established that to disagree with the pontiff is anathema to the religion.

PS: Are you implying that the Pope didn't know that this Bishop doesn't believe that systematic genocide took place in the Nazi regime?
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lisa

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2009, 12:02:02 AM »
Muman, are you saying that Jews who aren't as observant as you are phony wannabe Jews?

Also, CJD and the Catholic JTF'ers are not your enemy.  There are plenty of Catholics who are pro-Israel, just as there are those are the opposite.  It's not right to call them Catholic wannabes or tell them they're not real Catholics, especially when he's supportive of Israel, Jews, and our movement.  I met CJD several times.  He's a wonderful JTF'er who has been with us, almost from the beginning.


Offline muman613

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2009, 12:24:58 AM »
Muman, are you saying that Jews who aren't as observant as you are phony wannabe Jews?

Also, CJD and the Catholic JTF'ers are not your enemy.  There are plenty of Catholics who are pro-Israel, just as there are those are the opposite.  It's not right to call them Catholic wannabes or tell them they're not real Catholics, especially when he's supportive of Israel, Jews, and our movement.  I met CJD several times.  He's a wonderful JTF'er who has been with us, almost from the beginning.



Hi Lisa,

Nowhere did I say that anyone is my enemy. I am just saying that the Pope is the head of the Catholic Church and what he says holds a lot of weight in the world. I think it is wrong that the Church has been hiding its history of lack of kindness to the Jewish people during the Holocaust.

I did not attack him but simply was attempting to point out that the church has a history of things like this. I don't think it was any kind of mistake. Granted there are those Catholics who don't give much weight to the Pope but I personally don't know any. All the Catholic people whom I work with, and they are no doubt very nice people, listen to the Pope as a guidance to how to live their life.

I would hope the righteous Catholics would petition the pope to prevent this Bishop from representing the Church especially since his outrageous statements have already harmed the relations which the Church has tried for forty years to reverse. I do believe the second Vatican council did reverse many wrongs which were established in Church doctrine.

I am sorry if what I wrote offended anyone. I have just seen that Jews who are not rightist enough are called the K-word and those Christians who support abortion are called wanna-be Christians. I have a hope that all of mankind will come to love and respect the loving Father who provided us creation for our betterment.

PS: Regarding Jews I think that we are all given the potential to do Teshuva. I was non-observant for almost half my life and due to circumstances I turned around and started to read our scriptures and I asked for forgiveness for all the wrongs which I did. The first part of doing teshuva is to recognize that I am not infallible and I did make wrong choices in my life. A big problem with youth today is admitting when there is a problem. The fact that I look at a Jew today who doesnt observe Shabbat doesnt make me curse him, it just makes me pray for this person to do his teshuva and learn the Torah. I believe the Christians have the same idea called repentance. I hope that all who dont understand may understand one day.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 12:34:58 AM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2009, 01:29:41 AM »
This is the story as reported on Israel National News:


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/129591

Pope Removes Ban on British Holocaust Denier Bishop
Tevet 28, 5769, 24 January 09 11:58
by D. Shammah


(IsraelNN.com) In a move that many Jewish community officials said would cause relations between Jews and Catholics to further deteriorate, the Vatican on Saturday lifted an excommunication ban against Bishop Richard Williamson, one of four bishops who were banned in 1988 for taking on the office of bishop against the wishes of then-Pope John Paul II. Williamson is a Holocaust denier, and has repeatedly said that the gas chambers did not exist and that “a maximum” of 300,000 Jews were killed during World War II, mostly of starvation. In addition, Williamson has declared that the Jews are plotting to take over the world, and that the U.S. and Israel were behind 9/11.

In an interview with Swedish television conducted last November but broadcast last week, Williamson said that he believed that there were “no gas chambers."

“Between 200,000-300,000 perished in Nazi concentration camps, but not one of them by gassing in a gas chamber,” he said, adding “I believe that the historical evidence is hugely against 6 million having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolf Hitler.”

Back to Middle Ages
Williamson has had a long history of Holocaust denial. In a 1989 sermon in Sherbrooke, Canada, Williamson said that "there was not one Jew killed in the gas chambers. It was all lies, lies, lies. The Jews created the Holocaust so we would prostrate ourselves on our knees before them and approve of their new State of Israel... Jews made up the Holocaust, Protestants get their orders from the devil, and the Vatican has sold its soul to liberalism." In dozens of sermons and letters, Richardson reiterated the same theme, adding that Hitler “liberated” Germany from the Jews.

Richardson advocates a return to the Middle Ages, with the Inquisition the preferred model of the Catholic relationship to Jews. “As Catholic faith goes up, so Jewish power goes down, while as Catholic faith goes down, so Jewish power goes up. In the Catholic Middle Ages the Jews were relatively impotent to harm Christendom, but as Catholics have grown over the centuries since then weaker and weaker in the faith, especially since Vatican II, so the Jews have come closer and closer to fulfilling their substitute-Messianic drive towards world dominion... When Spanish Catholics were truly Catholic, G-d granted them by 1492 to reconquer Spain from the Arabs, and then granted them to create a Catholic empire in the Americas.”

Jewish community officials have expressed serious concerns over the Pope's move. Rabbi Shmuel Ricardo Di Segni the Chief Rabbi of Rome, told reporters that the rehabilitation of Williamson opens “a deep wound” in Catholic-Jewish relations. The Anti-Defamation League, an anti-Semitism watchdog group, said that the reinstatement “could become a source of great tension between Catholics and Jews.” The umbrella group of Jewish communities in France called Williamson “a contemptible liar whose sole objective is to reawaken centuries-old hatred against the Jews.” In a report, Reuters quoted Mordechai Lewy, Israel's ambassador to the Vatican, as saying that Israel “has no intention of interfering in the internal workings of the Catholic Church. However, the eagerness to bring a Holocaust denier back into the Church will cast a shadow on relations between Jews and the Catholic Church.”

A Vatican spokesman said that the lifting of the ban had nothing to do with Williamson's views. “It has nothing to do with the personal opinions of a person, which are open to criticism, but are not pertinent to this decree.”
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lisa

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2009, 01:43:21 AM »
This "bishop" person is obviously a nazi pig. 

He believe that only 300,000 Jews died in the camps of starvation, so that somehow absolves Hitler and the nazis, of imprisoning them, taking their property, and starving them?  Then this beast goes on to say that Hitler "liberated" Germany from the Jews.  How could Germany have been "liberated" if only 300,000 to 600,000 Jews only died of starvation?

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2009, 04:43:49 AM »
Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest:

He should not do it.
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Offline AussieJTFer

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2009, 04:52:03 AM »
Ratzi the nazi, the bastard hun.

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2009, 06:32:42 AM »
Today he lifted it




here are widespread rumours that Pope Benedict XVI is about to remove the excommunications on the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and the four bishops consecrated by the rebel traditionalist prelate in 1988. But is that wise? For, as Ruth Gledhill reports, the lifting of the excommunication would coincide with further evidence that h

The film above says it all. Williamson, a smarmy, intellectually conceited old Wykhamist, has given an interview to Swedish TV in which he says that the gas chambers did not exist. The Catholic website Creative Minority Report reckons that Williamson has deliberately brought up the subject again in order to make it impossible for Pope Benedict to end the schismatic status of the Society of St Pius X. It begs Bishop Bernard Fellay, head of the SSPX, to expel Williamson.

Just imagine the consequences if the Pope were to bring the Lefebvrists back into the fold while a vicious Holocaust denier was still one of their bishops. The damage done to the Holy Father's reputation would be catastrophic. And, even if Williamson is thrown out beforehand, the fact remains that the SSPX has always known that this horrible man has Far Right views. He has been denying the existence of the gas chambers for many years.

And yet the SSPX did nothing, other than moving Williamson out of the way of the media. The membership, by and large, said nothing.

Why is it always assumed by traditionalist Catholics that the healing of the Lefebvrist schism would be a great blessing? Williamson may be the Society's most prominent Holocaust revisionist, but he is not the only one. In France, the organisation is riddled with Vichyite anti-Semitism (though I should add say that its ranks also include good and devout people).


He lifted it   more
                      


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/damian_thompson/blog/2009/01/24/benedict_and_the_sspx_the_backlash_begins


This Pope was a Hitler youth at one time. I am surprised because the Pope claims he didn't want to be a part of the Nazis or the Hitler Youth.
If his claims were genuine, then why would he lift the excommunication for those Anti Semetic Priests?
Something is wrong in Denmark !

                                                                                 Shalom - Dox


This is the nature of the catholic church. I really believe him this Hitler youth issue.

There are different groups with different goals in the world.

You shouldn't think, that anti-semitism lead to the excommunication of this Pius people, that he now reunited with the CC. The cause was simply that this people ignored the power of Rome and injured the rights of the pope.

If you read original Nazi-newspapers of the time, you will find a very hard anti-catholic propaganda.

In the article that Muman posted, the ideas of this group come perfectly to the light.

It is Jewhate, but the ancient form of it. It is the religious Jewhate of the middle ages.

The Nazis didn't really care about the "godmurding" aspect of this old kind of anti-semitism.

They founded their anti-semitism on their racial pseudo-sciences.

In order to put it in a nutshell: This catholic anti-semites believe that Judaism is the problem, but the Nazis think that every Jew is corrupted in his genes and creates out of himself naturally in Nazi eyes wicked ideas like Judaism, Christianity, Marxism etc.

So both are obvious anti-semites. But althrough they do sometimes use thoughts, of the other group, they didn't really stand behind it. It is only for agitation-purposes. Of cause in the end it makes no difference.
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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2009, 07:00:59 AM »
Around here we call them 'wanna-be' Catholics because in order to be a real anything one must follow the letter of the law.

Many Christians refer to that as legalism and don't believe that's healthy (in the context of Christianity). Anything that shuts off someone's thinking processes is not healthy. I believe that every Christian no matter what type of Christianity they follow should be able to think for themselves about doctrinal issues and should go to G-d in prayer about it and refer to what we consider to be Scriptures to guide us about it.

Quote
In Judaism we have denominations called 'Reform' and 'Conservative', but from my vantage point of Orthodoxy those strains are not even Judaism. We base Judaism on whether or not one lives a Torah lifestyle. I apply the same kind of comparison to other religions. There are Catholics, who listen to the dogma of the Catholic church, there are Muslims who listen to the rantings of a raving criminal as if it is prophecy and those who don't are not Muslims {by the Koran they are infidels who die with the rest of us}. People who think they are religious and don't follow the rules of the religion are just fooling themselves.

Religions do tend to evolve over time and that's not always a bad thing. None of the Christian (Catholic or otherwise) regulars at this forum as far as I know would want to do anything bad to Jewish people. None of the Christian people I knew grewing up would want to do anything bad to Jewish people. You act as if you want to make us your enemy when we otherwise don't want to be. I'm not a Catholic but the Catholics on this forum are great people and you're smearing them.

There are anti-Semites of all races and religions, including those who claim to be Orthodox Jews. There's no reason for you to push away supportive Christian people who want to help and try to make them your enemies.

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I would think that a Catholic would obey the pope because he is the 'head' {in hebrew it is called the ROSH} of the institution. If you don't believe in Catholicism then find something else. We 'righteous' people do support the right to life of the unborn. In Judaism it is not as big of an issue but basically we agree with the religions which ascribe life to be sacred.

So you're basically saying they should follow him no matter what bone-headed thing he says to do. Do you want the Middle Ages to return? I think Catholicism could say been there, done that, got the T shirt. Today they're different for the most part.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2009, 07:12:34 AM »
Pheasant I agree that Ratzinger is trying to heal breaches by doing this, but it's still poor judgment on his part. Also why would Ratzinger let this Nazi pig back into the church when 13 year old girls who were coerced into having abortions remain excommunicated?

Here's some more info.

This story is about a woman who was basically forced to get an abortion by her boyfriend, who said he would kill her and the baby if she didn't.
http://www.abortionconcern.org/stories/story058.php

The RCC would excommunicate this woman if she were Catholic, but the Pope is letting a Nazi back in to the church.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 07:53:33 AM by Rubystars »

Offline mord

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2009, 07:25:38 AM »
Oh well, it's not like the Pope speaks for the entire Catholic Church.

I think it was not his aim to support this kind of oppinion (The revisonisim and really primitive Jewhate)

He wanted to get them back, like he is obligated to according to unite the only real church.

But you cannot bring all kind of people under one hat.

Imo the right option is to seperate from them.

I believe in strict double predestination, so this is the only natural solution.

If someone is lost, no one will be able to bring him back.

Sad but true.
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I believe in strict double predestination, so this is the only natural solution.

If someone is lost, no one will be able to bring him back.

Sad but true.
very true
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

Offline mord

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2009, 07:27:26 AM »
A few months ago, the Orthodox Park East Synagogue, whose rabbi Chaim detests, invited the Pope for a visit. 
So do i not for this reason but for an encyclopedia full of reasons.I detest his son jr as well
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

Offline cjd

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2009, 08:30:35 AM »
Muman the Council you quoted in your post is very old and has been replaced at least once in the 1960's. In fact I think it may have even been updated again however I am not sure. You are looking at something that is almost 150 years old. Look for the newer one known as Vatican 2. I don't know about  'wanna-be' Catholics or wanna-be-Jews and I don't know who you are referring to as "we". Its been well over 35 years since I personally bothered with any organized religion so can't accept wann-be- status.  I am not here to sell or  tell you how great the R.C.C or any other organized religion is or is not. What I will tell you that whenever I see one of this type thread start it does nothing but disrupt the movement for weeks. You sound like a smart guy but some of the stuff I see written about the R.C.C by you and a few others in the past makes me roll my eyes and think of the time your waisting on garbage like that while the Arab world is doing every thing it can to destroy tiny Israel. I will be the first to agree with you that the Church has taken some very evil actions over the centuries and yes in early time people livid by church decree. Today the Church honestly does not have that hold on its followers when it comes to social issues. More over when I was growing up in the 60's and early 70's the Church made a great effort to teach its young people about Judaism and its customs and holidays as a result of the policies in Vatican 2. The R.C.C today is under a great deal of pressure to keep people in the fold. Muslims are making great inroads into countries that were once bastions of Catholicism. I think its very sad when a person like yourself classifies other Jews who are less strict as almost non Jews. People like you who have seen both sides of the coin should encourage people like that to learn more and follow the mitzvas closer. Lastly for you to say that Catholics should believe and follow everything that comes out of the Popes mouth or not be Catholics very insulting to some of our great Catholic members who support Israel and the Jewish people. I leave myself out of that group since for all practical purposes I would fit into a group known as lapsed Catholics.
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

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Offline Ulli

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Re: Pope Ratzinger to lift excommunication of Holocaust denier priest
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2009, 08:33:59 AM »
Pheasant I agree that Ratzinger is trying to heal breaches by doing this, but it's still poor judgment on his part. Also why would Ratzinger let this Nazi pig back into the church when 13 year old girls who were coerced into having abortions remain excommunicated?

Here's some more info.

This story is about a woman who was basically forced to get an abortion by her boyfriend, who said he would kill her and the baby if she didn't.
http://www.abortionconcern.org/stories/story058.php

The RCC would excommunicate this woman if she were Catholic, but the Pope is letting a Nazi back in to the church.

Ruby, this Nazi and anti-semite issue is not of any relevancy for the CC, at least if this Pius people accept again in all important points the rule of Benedikt.

To think that some moral points would influence the decision in any way is the view of people from outside with no understanding of the CC.

They are acting according to their ideology their goal and their interests. They are doing this since centuries. They are not influenced by the oppinion of the Jews and other people that are upset.
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani