Abortion (Poll)?

[P J C]

Abortion is a very important spiritual issue that JTF needs to adress, and this poll is a good tool to do so. Thank You for voting!

[P J C]

Please verify and explain why you made the choices that you did. I am personally against abortion if a female is raped.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I picked the first option. Most of these times, when the "woman's life is in danger", it means she would be "traumatized" by going through a pregnancy.

[muman613]

I picked the first option. Most of these times, when the "woman's life is in danger", it means she would be "traumatized" by going through a pregnancy.

There is a legitimate reason for abortion in cases when the life of the mother would be threatened. This always means that if the mother would allow the fetus to grow it would cause the mother to lose her life. In these cases the life of the mother outweighs the life of the fetus. This was established Halacha {Jewish Law} for a long, long time. I dont see any reason to change the Halacha.

Most cases the mother would be 'traumatized' by having the abortion. The women who I have talked to who did this really regret having it done, they have been traumatized.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

If it is an absolute life-or-death emergency (that without would cause both mother and fetus to die), then it would be an emergency surgery, not an "abortion" per se. But that is not what is generally meant when people say "the life or health of the woman is at stake".

[P J C]

Like I said to Americanhero regarding rape victims, Murder is murder, and if a women really wants to do right by      G-d, than she will endure the pregnancy and put the child up for adoption

[muman613]

http://www.aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Abortion_in_Jewish_Law.asp

The traditional Jewish view of abortion does not fit conveniently into any of the major ",camps", in the current debate over abortion.

As abortion resurfaces as a political issue in the upcoming U.S. presidential election, it is worthwhile to investigate the Jewish approach to the issue. The traditional Jewish view of abortion does not fit conveniently into any of the major "camps" in the current American abortion debate. We neither ban abortion completely, nor do we allow indiscriminate abortion "on demand."

A woman may feel that until the fetus is born, it is a part of her body, and therefore she retains the right to abort an unwanted pregnancy. Does Judaism recognize a right to "choose" abortion? In what situations does Jewish law sanction abortion?

To gain a clear understanding of when abortion is permitted (or even required) and when it is forbidden requires an appreciation of certain nuances of halacha (Jewish law) which govern the status of the fetus.1

The easiest way to conceptualize a fetus in halacha is to imagine it as a full-fledged human being -- but not quite.2 In most circumstances, the fetus is treated like any other "person." Generally, one may not deliberately harm a fetus. But while it would seem obvious that Judaism holds accountable one who purposefully causes a woman to miscarry, sanctions are even placed upon one who strikes a pregnant woman causing an unintentional miscarriage.3 That is not to say that all rabbinical authorities consider abortion to be murder. The fact that the Torah requires a monetary payment for causing a miscarriage is interpreted by some Rabbis to indicate that abortion is not a capital crime4 and by others as merely indicating that one is not executed for performing an abortion, even though it is a type of murder.5 There is even disagreement regarding whether the prohibition of abortion is Biblical or Rabbinic. Nevertheless, it is universally agreed that the fetus will become a full-fledged human being and there must be a very compelling reason to allow for abortion.

As a general rule, abortion in Judaism is permitted only if there is a direct threat to the life of the mother by carrying the fetus to term or through the act of childbirth. In such a circumstance, the baby is considered tantamount to a rodef, a pursuer6 after the mother with the intent to kill her. Nevertheless, as explained in the Mishna,7 if it would be possible to save the mother by maiming the fetus, such as by amputating a limb, abortion would be forbidden. Despite the classification of the fetus as a pursuer, once the baby's head or most of its body has been delivered, the baby's life is considered equal to the mother's, and we may not choose one life over another, because it is considered as though they are both pursuing each other.

It is important to point out that the reason that the life of the fetus is subordinate to the mother is because the fetus is the cause of the mother's life-threatening condition, whether directly (e.g. due to toxemia, placenta previa, or breach position) or indirectly (e.g. exacerbation of underlying diabetes, kidney disease, or hypertension).8 A fetus may not be aborted to save the life of any other person whose life is not directly threatened by the fetus, such as use of fetal organs for transplant.

Judaism recognizes psychiatric as well as physical factors in evaluating the potential threat that the fetus poses to the mother. However, the danger posed by the fetus (whether physical or emotional) must be both probable and substantial to justify abortion.9 The degree of mental illness that must be present to justify termination of a pregnancy has been widely debated by rabbinic scholars,10 without a clear consensus of opinion regarding the exact criteria for permitting abortion in such instances.11 Nevertheless, all agree that were a pregnancy to causes a woman to become truly suicidal, there would be grounds for abortion.12 However, several modern rabbinical experts ruled that since pregnancy-induced and post-partum depressions are treatable, abortion is not warranted.13

As a rule, Jewish law does not assign relative values to different lives. Therefore, almost most major poskim (Rabbis qualified to decide matters of Jewish law) forbid abortion in cases of abnormalities or deformities found in a fetus. Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, one the greatest poskim of the past century, rules that even amniocentesis is forbidden if it is performed only to evaluate for birth defects for which the parents might request an abortion. Nevertheless, a test may be performed if a permitted action may result, such as performance of amniocentesis or drawing alpha-fetoprotein levels for improved peripartum or postpartum medical management.

While most poskim forbid abortion for "defective" fetuses, Rabbi Eliezar Yehuda Waldenberg is a notable exception. Rabbi Waldenberg allows first trimester abortion of a fetus that would be born with a deformity that would cause it to suffer, and termination of a fetus with a lethal fetal defect such as Tay Sachs up to the seventh month of gestation.14 The rabbinic experts also discuss the permissibility of abortion for mothers with German measles and babies with prenatal confirmed Down syndrome.

There is a difference of opinion regarding abortion for adultery or in other cases of impregnation from a relationship with someone Biblically forbidden. In cases of rape and incest, a key issue would be the emotional toll exacted from the mother in carrying the fetus to term. In cases of rape, Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Aurbach allows the woman to use methods which prevent pregnancy after intercourse.15 The same analysis used in other cases of emotional harm might be applied here. Cases of adultery interject additional considerations into the debate, with rulings ranging from prohibition to it being a mitzvah to abort.16

I have attempted to distill the essence of the traditional Jewish approach to abortion. Nevertheless, every woman's case is unique and special, and the parameters determining the permissibility of abortion within halacha are subtle and complex. It is crucial to remember that when faced with an actual patient, a competent halachic authority must be consulted in every case.

1 While there is debate among the Rabbis whether abortion is a Biblical or Rabbinical prohibition, all agree on the fundamental concept that fundamentally, abortion is only permitted to protect the life of the mother or in other extraordinary situations. Jewish law does not sanction abortion on demand without a pressing reason.
2 Igros Moshe, Choshen Mishpat II: 69B.
3 Shulchan Aruch, Choshen Mishpat, 423:1
4 Ashkenazi, Rabbi Yehuda, Be'er Hetiv, Choshen Mishpat 425:2
5 Igros Moshe, ibid
6 Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Laws of Murder 1:9; Talmud Sanhedrin 72B
7 Oholos 7:6
8 See Steinberg, Dr. Abraham; Encyclopedia of Jewish Medical Ethics, "Abortion and Miscarriage," for an extensive discussion of the maternal indications for abortion.
9 Igros Moshe, ibid
10 See Encyclopedia of Jewish Medical Ethics. P. 10, for references.
11 See Spero, Moshe, Judaism and Psychology, pp. 168-180.
12 Zilberstein, Rabbi Yitzchak, Emek Halacha, Assia, Vol. 1, 1986, pp. 205-209.
13 Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Aurbach and Rabbi Yehoshua Neuwirth cited in English Nishmat Avraham, Choshen Mishpat, 425:11, p. 288.
14 Tzitz Eliezer, Volume 13:102.
15 Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Aurbach and Rabbi Yehoshua Neuwirth cited in English Nishmat Avraham, Choshen Mishpat, 425:23, p. 294.
16 See excellent chapter in English Nishmat Avraham, Choshen Mishpat, 425 by Dr. Abraham Abraham, particularly p. 293.

[P J C]

Who said "It should be performed with No questions asked"? Who is going to need some spiritual evaluation?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Erica maybe? Has she signed back up as another poster?

[Vito]

I might get some heat for this.. but I think a woman has the right to abort the baby if she was a victim of rape. If I had a wife that was raped (G-d forbid), I would support her if she wanted an abortion.

[Americanhero1]

I might get some heat for this.. but I think a woman has the right to abort the baby if she was a victim of rape. If I had a wife that was raped (G-d forbid), I would support her if she wanted an abortion.

I agree with you Vito

[GoIsraelGo!]

The only exception should be a tubal pregnancy.
That is what I voted for.

                  Shalom Dox

[eb22]

Only when a mother's life is truly in danger.        Basically,    only if the choice becomes whether the mother lives or the unborn baby lives.      With no realistic way of saving both.

I'm totally against abortions under any other circumstance.   

[briann]

I think you need to add an option for first trimester being allowable.   (Just playing the devils advocate here)

[Moshe92]

I voted only when the woman's life is in danger. If a rape victim becomes pregnant, I think that the guy who committed the crime should be forced to pay the victim a lot of money.

[Rubystars]

I don't believe in aborting a baby in the case of rape because you're executing the wrong person.

I think the baby is innocent and deserves to be protected just as any other baby would.

I support terminating a pregnancy only when the mother's life is in serious risk such as in the case of an ectopic pregnancy.

One of the major reasons that people have abortions is because of anomalies or defects. From reading a lot of stories online it always seems like those families who choose to carry a baby to term who has a condition incompatible with life usually feel better about their decision than a family that chooses to terminate the pregnancy. They say they feel as if it was worth it to let their baby live for a day, or a few hours, and for the mother and other family to bond with the child while it was in the womb. I was reading a story like this earlier today about a baby with trisomy 13. Just a day after the baby was born, he died of brain stem death, but in his short life he was loved and cared for by his family.

Most of the time doctors seem to pressure families or coerce them into having abortions. Sometimes insurance companies try to label fetal defects as preexisting conditions and say they'll cover an abortion but not the baby's needed medical care after birth.

I think this is one of the things that needs to be changed, the culture of medicine that requires babies to be perfect in order to reduce liability to themselves.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

The life of a woman is somewhat more valuable than the life of an unborn baby.  Therefore, I think if carrying a baby to term would pose the risk of death for the mother, an abortion may be permissable.  This is the Jewish view.

Having said that, the cases of a mother being in grave danger from a pregnancy is rare, so abortions should not be commonplace.  There was a time in the not too distant past when childbirth was actually a very dangerous activity.  This is no longer the case.

For all of those people who say that "it's her body, she should decide what to do with her body.", I would say that it's not her body, it's IN her body.

[ag337]

I chose, when the woman's life is in danger.

I have to agree with what Ruby said.  That aborting the baby that is a result of a rape; is punishing the wrong person.

[Moshe92]

The life of a woman is somewhat more valuable than the life of an unborn baby.  Therefore, I think if carrying a baby to term would pose the risk of death for the mother, an abortion may be permissable.  This is the Jewish view.

Having said that, the cases of a mother being in grave danger from a pregnancy is rare, so abortions should not be commonplace.  There was a time in the not too distant past when childbirth was actually a very dangerous activity.  This is no longer the case.

For all of those people who say that "it's her body, she should decide what to do with her body.", I would say that it's not her body, it's IN her body.

Also, our bodies belong to G-d, not to ourselves.

[Zelhar]

I think abortion should be allowable while the fetus is still undeveloped. I would set a time frame of may be 30-40 days  where it would be allowable and under the sole consideration of the pregnant woman.

After that time frame the carrier should not be given sole responsibility for terminating the unborn. There must be a very serious medical reason that threatens the mother. Or, if the unborn is going to be suffering from a terminal disease, or a sever disability I think it is best to terminate it.

[firster555]

I only have one question to anyone who is against it in cases of rape. How many of you have daughters? Things are not always as clear cut as they may seem to be with this issue.

[Americanhero1]

I only have one question to anyone who is against it in cases of rape. How many of you have daughters? Things are not always as clear cut as they may seem to be with this issue.

Yes I agree

[P J C]

I only have one question to anyone who is against it in cases of rape. How many of you have daughters? Things are not always as clear cut as they may seem to be with this issue.

Like I said, a baby should not be MURDERED if it is not necessary for the PHYSICAL health of the Mother.

[Minuteman]

I choose only if the womans life is in danger and I choose this because if the woman looses her life chances are the child will also die and a decision has to be made to save the woman's life. 

I also want to bring up a point about an abortion survivor.  When I was listening to PJC's great video I noticed another video of an abortion survivor named Gianna Jessen.  For those who don't know who she is she is an advocate against partial birth abortion.  There was an attempt to abort here when her mother was 7 1/2 months pregnant.  She was born in an abortion clinic.  I checked out her videos on youtube and I was shocked at the vicious evil remarks made about her.  Remarks such as "the world would be a better place if you were aborted", and "she's racist because she is against Obamas' pro abortion stance" etc.  Here are the links to her video.  I ask that you go comment on all her videos in support of her and flag the SOB's making these horrible remarks about her so that maybe they will loose their accounts.

[Dr. Dan]

the strict Jewish belief is that abortions are only allowed when the fetus is a rodef..meaning that it is endagering the mother's life.

My opinion, which counts for nothing, is that a rape victim should be allowed to be given that option of abortion or going through the full pregnancy term and deciding to give that child up for adoption or keeping it as her own child.  I feel that today, most women are not perfect enough to lead a normal life if they were forced to give birth to a child as a result of rape.  I just think forcing her to do so would be terribly wrong and doesn't serve the greater good.  By the way, this isn't the strict Jewish perspective.  The rabbis in their infinite wisdom agreed that abortions would be inappropriate even if a woman were raped--but if I'm wrong on this detail let me know.

As far as the US is concerned, I feel it is wrong to get politicians involved in allowing or disallowing a certain medical treatment.  In a nation like the US which is not based on a specific theology three people shoudl be involved when a woman is deciding on whether she shoudl keep a fetus: Herself, her physician, and a spiritual leader of her choosing.  All three need to choose life over death and be thoughtful on how to save the fetus's life.  Obviously, in my  opinion, the mother's life is more important to the fetus when it comes down to life and death.