Challenge to ZachorHamitzvos: Let's Talk Islam

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Come here and debate if you have the skills, Muzzie-lover. I want you to explain to me what Sura 9:5 says and why it is considered the most important verse in the entire Koran. I want you to explain to me why the "perfect" word of Allah came in four different versions originally, and only the Zaidic Codex (considered historically to probably have been the most removed from the so-called "prophet") was accepted as final by the Caliph Uthman in 660. I want you to explain to me why the number of hadiths grew exponentially as more time was removed from the "prophet"'s death. I want you to tell me why originally Muslims prayed to Jerusalem and not to Mecca.

[ZachorHamitzvos]

First of all, you are completely ignoring the context of 9:5. The Muslims were attacked, and the pagans broke their truce with the Muslims. If you know Arabic, you would understand that this is speaking about a specific group of Pagans. The leadership of that tribe. It says "The disbelievers".

If it were speaking of all the pagans, it would just say "pagans", without 'the' preceding it. So verses 1-4 say to give them four months to stop the aggression, and if they continue, 9:5 says to fight them wherever you find them. And then 9:6 says "but if they seek your protection, offer them protection until fighting has ceased". Second, where did you get it is the most holy verse in the Qur'an? It is not. Muslims consider the whole Qur'an holy, but if you mean the "most rewarded verse" to recite, it would be ayat al-kursi. What do you mean by four forms? Furthermore, there is a science to Hadith. Many were made up, and so Islamic scholars study them, and determin which seem valid and which do not, based on who transmitted them, when they were written down, etc. as well as whether or not they comply with Islamic beliefs.

[muman613]

I object to this pagan stuff being posted on a Jewish website. As a Jew we are commanded not to use the names of foreign G-ds or else suffer the curses written in Torah. There is no need for this discussion here. I feel offended even reading this stuff. I dont come here to learn about idol worship like Islam.

Islam was placed in the world in order to act as the Satan, the great deceiver and the ultimate prosecutor in the heavenly tribunal. What the Jews must do is remove Satan from before our eyes so we can perceive Hashems divine presence. On the day of judgement the Muslims will pay for their sin. Only those who gave up the idol worship, praying to the false prophet, will die with all the rest of sin.

I am praying for Hashem to bring this day soon, so that we may rebuild the Beit HaMikdash so we may resume the avodah {holy service}. I will be rejoicing with the righteous when Islam is destroyed like a fly by the mighty right hand of Hashem.

PS: Everyone knows that this world is Essau and Ishmaels domain while the World To Come {Olam Habah} is the heritage of Israel.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

First of all, you are completely ignoring the context of 9:5. The Muslims were attacked, and the pagans broke their truce with the Muslims. If you know Arabic, you would understand that this is speaking about a specific group of Pagans. The leadership of that tribe. It says "The disbelievers".

If it were speaking of all the pagans, it would just say "pagans", without 'the' preceding it. So verses 1-4 say to give them four months to stop the aggression, and if they continue, 9:5 says to fight them wherever you find them. And then 9:6 says "but if they seek your protection, offer them protection until fighting has ceased". Second, where did you get it is the most holy verse in the Qur'an? It is not. Muslims consider the whole Qur'an holy, but if you mean the "most rewarded verse" to recite, it would be ayat al-kursi. What do you mean by four forms? Furthermore, there is a science to Hadith. Many were made up, and so Islamic scholars study them, and determin which seem valid and which do not, based on who transmitted them, when they were written down, etc. as well as whether or not they comply with Islamic beliefs.

Don't say that there is a problem of interpretation.  These verses have been interpreted and reinterpreted again and again.  "People vote with their feet", have you ever heard of that?  It means forget theory and look at what people do.  Muslims worldwide have adopted the literal interpretation of these verses, whether you apologize for them or not.  Read the long list of examples at www.thereligionofpeace.com

If all you have is theory, then you have no defense.  I speak of practice.

[ZachorHamitzvos]

I object to this pagan stuff being posted on a Jewish website. As a Jew we are commanded not to use the names of foreign G-ds or else suffer the curses written in Torah. There is no need for this discussion here. I feel offended even reading this stuff. I dont come here to learn about idol worship like Islam.

Islam was placed in the world in order to act as the Satan, the great deceiver and the ultimate prosecutor in the heavenly tribunal. What the Jews must do is remove Satan from before our eyes so we can perceive Hashems divine presence. On the day of judgement the Muslims will pay for their sin. Only those who gave up the idol worship, praying to the false prophet, will die with all the rest of sin.

How is Islam an idolatrous religion? Muslims are one of the few peoples on Earth that follow the Noachide laws.

[ZachorHamitzvos]

You can look at the current. However, look at history? Where did Yehudim live best? In the Islamic world. Where was the only place where there were more jews after the holocaust than before, in Europe? Muslim Albania. Why? Because so many Muslims welcomed Jews with open arms.
This is not theory. I have many Muslim friends, and I've been to the Middle east and what you seem to think of Muslims and Islam is far from truth!
I recommend that you all read "Among the Righteous" by Robert Satloff, about forgotten heroes during the holocaust. Very interesting and eye-opening.

[Vito]

I object to this pagan stuff being posted on a Jewish website. As a Jew we are commanded not to use the names of foreign G-ds or else suffer the curses written in Torah. There is no need for this discussion here. I feel offended even reading this stuff. I dont come here to learn about idol worship like Islam.

Islam was placed in the world in order to act as the Satan, the great deceiver and the ultimate prosecutor in the heavenly tribunal. What the Jews must do is remove Satan from before our eyes so we can perceive Hashems divine presence. On the day of judgement the Muslims will pay for their sin. Only those who gave up the idol worship, praying to the false prophet, will die with all the rest of sin.

I am praying for Hashem to bring this day soon, so that we may rebuild the Beit HaMikdash so we may resume the avodah {holy service}. I will be rejoicing with the righteous when Islam is destroyed like a fly by the mighty right hand of Hashem.

PS: Everyone knows that this world is Essau and Ishmaels domain while the World To Come {Olam Habah} is the heritage of Israel.

Muman, this is a debate about the religion of our enemy. It has nothing to do with worshiping another religion. We can't just hate Muslims because we hate Muslims. If we don't debate with the other side about the reasoning for our beliefs.. we will never be taken seriously.

[Lisa]

So, ZHM, do you believe Israel has the right to exist? 

[muman613]

The Song of the Red Sea

Moses and the Israelites then sang this song to God. It went:

I will sing to God for His great victory,
Horse and rider He threw in the sea.
My strength and song is God
And this is my deliverance;
This is my God, I will enshrine Him
My father's God, I will exalt Him.
God is the Master of war,
God is His name.
Pharaoh's chariots and army
He cast in the sea;
His very best officers
Were drowned in the Red Sea.
The depths covered them;
They sank to the bottom
Like a stone.
Your right Hand, O God
Is awesome in power;
Your right Hand, O God
crushes the foe.
In Your great Majesty
You broke Your opponents;
You sent forth Your wrath
It devoured them like straw.
At the blast of Your Nostrils
the waters towered.
Flowing water stood like a wall.
The depths congealed
In the heart of the sea.
The enemy said, 'I will give chase;
I will overtake, divide the spoils
I will satisfy myself.
I will draw my sword;
My hand will demolish them.'
You made Your wind blow;
The sea covered them.
They sank like lead
In the mighty waters.

Who is like You among powers, God?
Who is like You, majestic in holiness,
Awesome in praise, doing wonders?

You put forth Your right Hand;
The earth swallowed them.
With love, You led
the people You redeemed;
With might, You led [them]
to Your holy shrine.

Nations heard and shuddered;
Terror gripped those who dwell in Philistia.
Edom's chiefs then panicked;
Moab's heroes were seized with trembling;
Canaan's residents melted away.
Fear and dread fell upon them.
At the greatness of Your Arm
They are still as stone.
Until Your people crossed, O God,
Until the people You gained crossed over.
O bring them and plant them
On the mount You possess.
The place You dwell in
Is Your accomplishment, God.
The shrine of God
Your Hands have founded.

God will reign forever and ever.

[This song was sung] when Pharaoh's horse came into the sea, along with his chariot corps and cavalry, and God made the sea come back on them. The Israelites had walked on dry land in the midst of the sea.
   
Miriam the prophetess, Aaron's sister, took the drum in her hand, and all the women followed her with drums and dancing.

Miriam led them in the response, 'Sing to God for His great victory, horse and rider He cast in the sea.'

[GoIsraelGo!]

I object to this pagan stuff being posted on a Jewish website. As a Jew we are commanded not to use the names of foreign G-ds or else suffer the curses written in Torah. There is no need for this discussion here. I feel offended even reading this stuff. I dont come here to learn about idol worship like Islam.

Islam was placed in the world in order to act as the Satan, the great deceiver and the ultimate prosecutor in the heavenly tribunal. What the Jews must do is remove Satan from before our eyes so we can perceive Hashems divine presence. On the day of judgement the Muslims will pay for their sin. Only those who gave up the idol worship, praying to the false prophet, will die with all the rest of sin.

How is Islam an idolatrous religion? Muslims are one of the few peoples on Earth that follow the Noachide laws.

Moslems are Satan's army. The Cult of Death and Destruction or..The Religion of Piece - arms, legs, hands, heads, torsos, tounges, all cut off or blown to bits and pieces. Do you agree with this most accurate description of Islam?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

First of all, you are completely ignoring the context of 9:5. The Muslims were attacked, and the pagans broke their truce with the Muslims. If you know Arabic, you would understand that this is speaking about a specific group of Pagans. The leadership of that tribe. It says "The disbelievers".

Either you do not know what abrogation is, or you do and are pretending. I suspect it is the latter. In Islamic theology it is believed that any revelation from Allah can be changed at any time, for any reason, because Allah can "do anything".

None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

However, given the type of pre-packaged response you have given me, I am quite sure that you already know that. So, I'll just fill the rest of the forum in on what this all means. When your pedophile started preaching from his Hira rock in 610, he had to talk the talk of tolerance and pluralism because he was utterly powerless--just another cult yahoo. Sura 9:5 came about because at the time it was written (likely circa 622 C.E.), he had amassed a legion of booty-seekers in Medina and now had the ability to take over all of Arabia by force. He didn't need to kiss-up to any of the authorities at this stage.

If it were speaking of all the pagans, it would just say "pagans", without 'the' preceding it.

Baloney, Mohammed himself considered even Jews and Christians to be pagans; Mohammed taught that Jews "worship Ezra" and that we Christians worship "Jesus, Mary, and Allah". I am sure that even you will admit that that is not what the Trinity actually is. Thus, the question is why an all-powerful Allah would not accurately know what the idolaters believe and relay it to his "prophet".

So verses 1-4 say to give them four months to stop the aggression, and if they continue, 9:5 says to fight them wherever you find them.

I believe it was the followers of your faith that broke the truce with the Jews of Quraysh and beheaded some 700 of them.

And then 9:6 says "but if they seek your protection, offer them protection until fighting has ceased".

Meaning they recite the shahada to your satisfaction and convert to Islam.

Second, where did you get it is the most holy verse in the Qur'an? It is not. Muslims consider the whole Qur'an holy, but if you mean the "most rewarded verse" to recite, it would be ayat al-kursi.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/swordverse.htm
 

What do you mean by four forms?

http://www.answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/Jam/chap3.html

Furthermore, there is a science to Hadith. Many were made up, and so Islamic scholars study them, and determin which seem valid and which do not, based on who transmitted them, when they were written down, etc. as well as whether or not they comply with Islamic beliefs.

Yeah, it is indeed difficult sifting through hundreds of years of chicken scratches on camel bones, rocks, and pieces of palm leaves. One wonders why Allah would transmit his almighty word, carved permanently onto uncreated tablets in paradise, using such a humble medium.

Nice try. Now go do your da'wah elsewhere.

[ZachorHamitzvos]

I support our state of Israel. I've lived there for almost 10 years as well. That being said, I don't agree with everything that Israel does, and I disagree with some of its policies.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

I object to this pagan stuff being posted on a Jewish website. As a Jew we are commanded not to use the names of foreign G-ds or else suffer the curses written in Torah. There is no need for this discussion here. I feel offended even reading this stuff. I dont come here to learn about idol worship like Islam.

Islam was placed in the world in order to act as the Satan, the great deceiver and the ultimate prosecutor in the heavenly tribunal. What the Jews must do is remove Satan from before our eyes so we can perceive Hashems divine presence. On the day of judgement the Muslims will pay for their sin. Only those who gave up the idol worship, praying to the false prophet, will die with all the rest of sin.

How is Islam an idolatrous religion? Muslims are one of the few peoples on Earth that follow the Noachide laws.

You're joking, right?  I hope you are, otherwise I don't have much hope for you.  Let's take a look at how the muslims observe the Noahide laws.  This list is from wikipedia.  Let's take a look at them one by one.

Prohibition of Idolatry: You shall not have any idols before God.

Actually:  The muslim god is a false type of moon god.

Prohibition of Murder: You shall not murder. (Genesis 9:6)

Actually:  Muslims murder all the time, especially non-muslims.

Prohibition of Theft: You shall not steal.

What do you call the jizya?

Prohibition of Sexual Promiscuity: You shall not commit any of a series of sexual prohibitions, which include adultery, incest, bestiality and male homosexual anal intercourse.

Actually:  The ayatollah (ym"sh) condoned pedophilia.  There certainly are sex crimes in islamic countries, the least of which is multiple partners.  The Albanian muslims rule the illegal sex trade.

Prohibition of Blasphemy: You shall not blaspheme God's name.

Actually:  I am aware of some of the more profane expressions in arabic which do precisely that.  I won't repeat them.
 
Dietary Law: Do not eat flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive. (Genesis 9:4)

Actually:  I've seen arab rioters in Gaza eating the flesh of murdered Jewish soldiers.

Requirement to have just Laws: You shall set up an effective judiciary to enforce the preceding six laws fairly.

Actually:  this last point is so laughable, that I won't even dignify it with a response.  All I will ask you is where are they?

[ZachorHamitzvos]

I object to this pagan stuff being posted on a Jewish website. As a Jew we are commanded not to use the names of foreign G-ds or else suffer the curses written in Torah. There is no need for this discussion here. I feel offended even reading this stuff. I dont come here to learn about idol worship like Islam.

Islam was placed in the world in order to act as the Satan, the great deceiver and the ultimate prosecutor in the heavenly tribunal. What the Jews must do is remove Satan from before our eyes so we can perceive Hashems divine presence. On the day of judgement the Muslims will pay for their sin. Only those who gave up the idol worship, praying to the false prophet, will die with all the rest of sin.

How is Islam an idolatrous religion? Muslims are one of the few peoples on Earth that follow the Noachide laws.

Moslems are Satan's army. The Cult of Death and Destruction or..The Religion of Piece - arms, legs, hands, heads, torsos, tounges, all cut off or blown to bits and pieces. Do you agree with this most accurate description of Islam?

This is exactly what I'm trying to show-- so many of you JTFers have no substance for your beliefs, you just believe these hateful thoughts without any basis for believing so. You need to learn about a religion before you go out bashing it like you are doing.

[Lisa]

I support our state of Israel. I've lived there for almost 10 years as well. That being said, I don't agree with everything that Israel does, and I disagree with some of its policies.

So ZHM, explain to us exactly how you support Israel.  Do you think Israel should retreat to pre-1967 borders?  Do you think Israel is guilty of war crimes against the Hamastinians? 

[muman613]

I object to this pagan stuff being posted on a Jewish website. As a Jew we are commanded not to use the names of foreign G-ds or else suffer the curses written in Torah. There is no need for this discussion here. I feel offended even reading this stuff. I dont come here to learn about idol worship like Islam.

Islam was placed in the world in order to act as the Satan, the great deceiver and the ultimate prosecutor in the heavenly tribunal. What the Jews must do is remove Satan from before our eyes so we can perceive Hashems divine presence. On the day of judgement the Muslims will pay for their sin. Only those who gave up the idol worship, praying to the false prophet, will die with all the rest of sin.

How is Islam an idolatrous religion? Muslims are one of the few peoples on Earth that follow the Noachide laws.

You think that the Muslims keep the laws of Noach? How about "Thou shall not kill"?

I dont think that most Muslims pray to Hashem, they are praying to the moon god.

There is nothing good about the religion of Ishmael. He was a wild son of Abraham who didn't really learn the ways of G-d. G-d admired Abrahams compassion, not his cruelty. Ishmael is a cruel person to consider a patriarch. I believe that Islam is a derivative religion begotten by a perverted false prophet who murdered and plundered for his own personal wealth.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

I object to this pagan stuff being posted on a Jewish website. As a Jew we are commanded not to use the names of foreign G-ds or else suffer the curses written in Torah. There is no need for this discussion here. I feel offended even reading this stuff. I dont come here to learn about idol worship like Islam.

Islam was placed in the world in order to act as the Satan, the great deceiver and the ultimate prosecutor in the heavenly tribunal. What the Jews must do is remove Satan from before our eyes so we can perceive Hashems divine presence. On the day of judgement the Muslims will pay for their sin. Only those who gave up the idol worship, praying to the false prophet, will die with all the rest of sin.

How is Islam an idolatrous religion? Muslims are one of the few peoples on Earth that follow the Noachide laws.

Moslems are Satan's army. The Cult of Death and Destruction or..The Religion of Piece - arms, legs, hands, heads, torsos, tounges, all cut off or blown to bits and pieces. Do you agree with this most accurate description of Islam?

This is exactly what I'm trying to show-- so many of you JTFers have no substance for your beliefs, you just believe these hateful thoughts without any basis for believing so. You need to learn about a religion before you go out bashing it like you are doing.

You haven't responded to my points.  Instead you defame our movement.  Can't you do better than that?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

ZachorHamasvos, care to explain why your pure "holy book", which abides by all the Noachide Laws, describes the following?

Ageless youths will circulate among them, serving them.Seeing them, you would think them scattered pearls.

And would you care to explain why you only consider homosexual behavior to really be "homosexual" if it is receptive?

[muman613]

I object to this pagan stuff being posted on a Jewish website. As a Jew we are commanded not to use the names of foreign G-ds or else suffer the curses written in Torah. There is no need for this discussion here. I feel offended even reading this stuff. I dont come here to learn about idol worship like Islam.

Islam was placed in the world in order to act as the Satan, the great deceiver and the ultimate prosecutor in the heavenly tribunal. What the Jews must do is remove Satan from before our eyes so we can perceive Hashems divine presence. On the day of judgement the Muslims will pay for their sin. Only those who gave up the idol worship, praying to the false prophet, will die with all the rest of sin.

How is Islam an idolatrous religion? Muslims are one of the few peoples on Earth that follow the Noachide laws.

Moslems are Satan's army. The Cult of Death and Destruction or..The Religion of Piece - arms, legs, hands, heads, torsos, tounges, all cut off or blown to bits and pieces. Do you agree with this most accurate description of Islam?

This is exactly what I'm trying to show-- so many of you JTFers have no substance for your beliefs, you just believe these hateful thoughts without any basis for believing so. You need to learn about a religion before you go out bashing it like you are doing.

You haven't responded to my points.  Instead you defame our movement.  Can't you do better than that?

Yes, this troll either really is caught up in this craziness or else he is plain evil. Nobody in their right mind would even consider Islam a good thing. These people are only out to kill us. We will not be fooled by their lies and deceit.

I think this dude should move on or be banned soon. I don't have much stomach for those who think Islam is just another innocent religion... This is absolute deceit...

[GoIsraelGo!]

I object to this pagan stuff being posted on a Jewish website. As a Jew we are commanded not to use the names of foreign G-ds or else suffer the curses written in Torah. There is no need for this discussion here. I feel offended even reading this stuff. I dont come here to learn about idol worship like Islam.

Islam was placed in the world in order to act as the Satan, the great deceiver and the ultimate prosecutor in the heavenly tribunal. What the Jews must do is remove Satan from before our eyes so we can perceive Hashems divine presence. On the day of judgement the Muslims will pay for their sin. Only those who gave up the idol worship, praying to the false prophet, will die with all the rest of sin.

How is Islam an idolatrous religion? Muslims are one of the few peoples on Earth that follow the Noachide laws.

Moslems are Satan's army. The Cult of Death and Destruction or..The Religion of Piece - arms, legs, hands, heads, torsos, tounges, all cut off or blown to bits and pieces. Do you agree with this most accurate description of Islam?

This is exactly what I'm trying to show-- so many of you JTFers have no substance for your beliefs, you just believe these hateful thoughts without any basis for believing so. You need to learn about a religion before you go out bashing it like you are doing.

Death to Islam             and may Piss and Pigs guts be upon your so called Prophet Mohamed !

[zachor_ve_kavod]

I can't stay up to waste my time with this person.  Good night.

[ZachorHamitzvos]

ZachorHamasvos, care to explain why your pure "holy book", which abides by all the Noachide Laws, describes the following?

Ageless youths will circulate among them, serving them.Seeing them, you would think them scattered pearls.

And would you care to explain why you only consider homosexual behavior to really be "homosexual" if it is receptive?

I honestly do not have a clue what this verse means and what you are talking about. In Islam, homosexuality and homosexual sex is a huge sin.

[Zionist Revolutionary]

Qur'an:8:7   "Al-ah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

The Koran inspires terrorism. More importantly, this is enforced in the Hadith, Sira, and Tarikh, all of which Muslims accept.

The Hadith records that Mohammed raped countless Jewish women, and names 3. The Koran says that sufficient for the Jew is the "flaming fire!"

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I honestly do not have a clue what this verse means and what you are talking about. In Islam, homosexuality and homosexual sex is a huge sin.

Right; that's why the Koranic "punishment" for sodomy is an absurd slap on the wrist (Sura 4:16), whereas the punishment for heterosexual immorality is essentially death (Suras 4:16 and 24:2).

[ZachorHamitzvos]

Qur'an:8:7   "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

The Koran inspires terrorism. More importantly, this is enforced in the Hadith, Sira, and Tarikh, all of which Muslims accept.

The Hadith records that Mohammed raped countless Jewish women, and names 3. The Koran says that sufficient for the Jew is the "flaming fire!"

First off, that is not what 8:7 says.

Second, where do you see that he raped countless Jewish women? Who are the three women that he names? This is an outright lie.