Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Intermarriage
muman613:
It is Talmud, Tractate Megillah 13b
http://theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?s=kehillas
"
4:16
The Gemora in Megillah (15a) interprets Esther’s words as lamenting that until this point, each time that she had relations with Achashverosh it was against her will. Now that she was voluntarily going in to him, it would be considered as if she was a willing participant.
The law is that a married woman who voluntarily has extramarital relations becomes forbidden to remain married to her husband (Yevamos 56b). Even after Esther married Achashverosh, she remained married to Mordechai and continued secretly having relations with him (Megillah 13b). However, this was only permitted as long as her interactions with Achashverosh were against her will. Now that she was willingly going in to have relations with him, she would be forbidden to Mordechai for the rest of her life.
Tosefos questions why Mordechai didn’t divorce Esther at this time, as any relations she would have while single – even voluntarily – wouldn’t prevent her from later remarrying him. Tosefos answers that giving one’s wife a get must be done in the presence of witnesses. Mordechai feared that the witnesses might absentmindedly talk about the event, which would eventually make its way to the ears of Achashverosh, thereby endangering the lives of himself, Esther, and the entire Jewish nation.
The Rashba questions why Mordechai didn’t give Esther a get written in his own handwriting, which effects a divorce even in the absence of witnesses. The Rashba answers cryptically אין משיבין על דברי אגדה – it isn’t always possible to ask or answer questions regarding homiletic passages.
The Noda BiYehuda (Yoreh Deah 2:161) was once asked to resolve a difficulty in a different homiletic passage. He begins his reply by describing how pressed he is for time to answer even the most pressing and practical questions which come before him and apologizes that he is unable to delve into the deep, complex subject at that time. He further justifies his actions by quoting the aforementioned Rashba, who writes that such questions can’t always be asked and may not have readily-apparent resolutions.
The overworked Noda BiYehuda then continues, “But now that I’ve mentioned the Rashba’s comment, let me tell you the answer to his question!” He suggests that as a historical fact, Mordechai did divorce Esther without witnesses using a get that he personally wrote, exactly as suggested by the Rashba.
If so, what is the explanation of the Gemora which understands Esther as mourning the fact that she would be eternally forbidden to Mordechai, which according to the Noda BiYehuda shouldn’t be the case? He innovatively explains that while it was possible for Mordechai to divorce Esther without attracting attention, thereby preventing her from becoming forbidden to him, there was no parallel option to subsequently remarry her. A wedding must be conducted in the presence of witnesses to take effect, leaving Esther technically permitted to him but forbidden for all practical purposes!
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muman613:
I am very amazed... This tractate Megillah which we are discussing I happened to discuss a couple of weeks ago concerning another statement in this Tractate...
The other statement in Megillah 13b is is "Hashem creates the cure before he sends the sickness"...
Also it is in this tractate the fact that Moshe was born and died on Adar 7.
I have not been able to find on the Internet this particular tractate... I am still looking for it..
muman613:
--- Quote from: Dan ben Noah on April 10, 2009, 01:52:44 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dan ben Noah on April 09, 2009, 08:46:25 PM ---I highly doubt that Esther was married to Mordechai. Mordechai was her uncle who had adopted her as his daughter. But if the king wanted her to be his wife, there wasn't really much she could do about it. If it was her choice she probably would have married a Jewish man.
--- End quote ---
I guess I was off here, Mordechai was her cousin, not her uncle. Here is the quote from Esther:
Esther 2: 5-7
5. There was a Judean man in Shushan the capital, whose name was Mordecai the son of Jair the son of Shimei the son of Kish, a Benjamite,
6. who had been exiled from Jerusalem with the exile that was exiled with Jeconiah, king of Judah, which Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, had exiled.
7. And he had brought up Hadassah, that is Esther, his uncle's daughter, for she had neither father nor mother, and the maiden was of comely form and of comely appearance, and when her father and mother died, Mordecai took her to himself for a daughter.
--- End quote ---
Yes, that is the story from the Megillah itself. But there has been much written about what their relationship was. If you just want to stay with Pshat, that is fine. But there is much meaning in the Megillah.
I have only been able to find this Shuir of Daf Yomi Tractate Megillah 13b
http://torahmedia.com/fetch.php?sid=4x1yi0jg143d021&cid=&dlid=4790220
msd:
I think intermarriage is the bane of Jewish existence. I've heard it say that it is like your spirit leaves you when sleeping with a gentile. Jews should try to live among only themselves to avoid this. The temptation is always there.
AsheDina:
--- Quote from: msd on May 15, 2009, 08:20:30 AM ---I think intermarriage is the bane of Jewish existence. I've heard it say that it is like your spirit leaves you when sleeping with a gentile. Jews should try to live among only themselves to avoid this. The temptation is always there.
--- End quote ---
Maybe this is why Alex Jones is nuts? He is married to a Jewish woman and he is a Gentile. Does it work for the vice/versa?
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