Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Who is a Jew? - Some insight from Rebbetzen Chana Bracha Siegelbaum
Dúnadan:
--- Quote from: muman613 on August 12, 2009, 05:51:08 PM ---So what is your point?
Ashkenazi Jews are Jews as much as any other Jew. The lineage of Jews have been kept throughout the ages. Your hypothesizing about things doesn't accomplish much.
We are Jews because our mothers were Jews, this has been the law since the Torah was accepted. We also allow others to convert if they go through a conversion process.
--- End quote ---
I care little if by religious law Ashkenazis are real Jews or not (they probably are). What I care about is their ethnic makeup, that's what I was talking about.
Probably most Ashkenazis are descended from real Jews, truthfully converted ages ago. It's not that it's really important to me.
Spectator:
--- Quote from: Dúnadan on August 12, 2009, 05:53:38 PM ---I care little if by religious law Ashkenazis are real Jews or not (they probably are). What I care about is their ethnic makeup, that's what I was talking about.
Probably most Ashkenazis are descended from real Jews, truthfully converted ages ago. It's not that it's really important to me.
--- End quote ---
This is improbable. As KWRBT pointed out, the the opinion you mentioned is rejected by most of the researchers. Also, take into account that conversion to Judaism is not an easy thing. It takes several years of serious study and practice. Besides, the Jews were persecuted and hated minority, there were very few people who could decide to be a Jew.
Look also here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews
--- Quote ---The theory that the majority of Ashkenazi Jews are the descendants of the non-Semitic converted Khazars was advocated by various racial theorists and antisemitic sources in the late-19th and 20th centuries, especially following the publication of Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe.[32][33][34] Despite recent genetic evidence to the contrary,[1] and a lack of any real mainstream scholarly support,[35] this belief is still popular among antisemites.[36][37]
--- End quote ---
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Dúnadan on August 12, 2009, 05:53:38 PM ---
--- Quote from: muman613 on August 12, 2009, 05:51:08 PM ---So what is your point?
Ashkenazi Jews are Jews as much as any other Jew. The lineage of Jews have been kept throughout the ages. Your hypothesizing about things doesn't accomplish much.
We are Jews because our mothers were Jews, this has been the law since the Torah was accepted. We also allow others to convert if they go through a conversion process.
--- End quote ---
I care little if by religious law Ashkenazis are real Jews or not (they probably are). What I care about is their ethnic makeup, that's what I was talking about.
Probably most Ashkenazis are descended from real Jews, truthfully converted ages ago. It's not that it's really important to me.
--- End quote ---
But (and you say you don't deny this) there were Jews in Rome, Italy, France, Germany, "ashkenaz" (that referred to a specific area in Germany), before the khazar period, and those Jews came from the dispersion in the destruction of the Temple, and after the failed Bar Kochba revolt. And during the Byzantines' persecution of the Jews in Eretz Yisrael. Those were real Jews, who did something called MIGRATION. When a Jew moves from one place to another, he does not cease being a Jew. He does not suddenly become a descendent of slavs because he moved in with them. MOST of the European Jews are descended from these Jewish upstart groups who were insulated, distinct from the surrounding nonJewish populations (there was enmity and cultural disagreements between the two sides as well) and had real talmidei chachamim to lead their communities in maintaining Jewish tradition as a group. Their populations grew, especially at a rapid pace since in the beginning they even customarily had multiple wives (until Rabenu Gershom's ban), and the people passed on Jewish tradition. They didn't desire to become gentiles.
For instance, Rabenu Gershom, Rashi. They were only following a tradition of Torah scholars before them. And the Jewish populace looked to this people for guidance. The leadership of world Jewry shifted from the major Babylonian diaspora yeshivot to these various talmidei chachamim who led these communities, after the Talmud was written and publicized and the Babel Jewish population and scholarship fell apart. Call them "settlers" in the real sense, that Europe is not our land, we were guests there. SOME European Jews are descended from converts who joined up to these real living communities of Jews, etc...
On my mother's side, all of my great-great grandparents were Jewish and had Jewish parents and family that they left behind when they came to America. This is likely a common situation for American Jews whose families immigrated to the US sometime in the 1800's. My great grandparents (the children of that generation) were all practicing Jews in America. People don't just wake up and say 'oh I'm a Jew now even though I'm really slavic.' It comes from something. You're given a bris, bar mitzvah, your parents /grandparents keep shabbat etc.... It's not some big secret.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Dúnadan on August 12, 2009, 01:13:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: muman613 on August 11, 2009, 05:33:39 PM ---DunDan doesn't know what he is talking about here... There has been a lot of genetic proof that Ashkenazic Jews have genetic traces of the Kohen gene which is present in all descendents of the original Israelites.
What this fool is saying is pure antisemitic propaganda along the lines of the "Jews are Khazars" myth...
--- End quote ---
Antisemitic propaganda made by three Jews named Koestler, Wexler and Kriwakzek? Even when Koestler literally means "The Khazar", you doubt that at least some Jews are descended from Khazaria?
Who cares about genes? It proved to be excrement, that "Kohen gene" is present in non-Jewish populations too and genes change with aging.
--- End quote ---
BTW, every other linguist in the world thinks Wexler is an idiot. I just learned that he claims that Yiddish is a central asian language rather than German offshoot.... LOL. Try telling that to people who know and speak the languages Yiddish and German.
Dúnadan:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on August 12, 2009, 09:45:36 PM ---
BTW, every other linguist in the world thinks Wexler is an idiot. I just learned that he claims that Yiddish is a central asian language rather than German offshoot.... LOL. Try telling that to people who know and speak the languages Yiddish and German.
--- End quote ---
He says Yiddish is a combination between Slavic and German. Doesn't sounds illogical to me.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version