Being Gay

[Rubystars]

"A man should cleave to his wife's skin"...I think that is the quote that indicates that sex between a husband and wife shoudl be as natural as possible.  Unless health were an issue, condoms shouldn't be used between husband and wife.

Thanks Dr. Dan. I have to wonder if preventing children that the couple could not afford to care for would be a valid reason in Judaism. Ideally righteous people should have as many children as they can, but what if they're not able to provide for more than one or two children?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I'm trying to remember who lists that as one of the practices of the Egyptians that it is referring to.   I believe it might have been Rambam.   With respect to Chaim and of course the Rambam, I think there is a wide array of opinion on this and many hold that it is in a category of 'not necessarily assur but still discouraged.'  That sort of thing.   There is also the opinion that it's allowed.   But even by them, I'm sure that changes once a girl is married.

Not to promote Christianity but the apostle Paul, speaking as a Pharisaical Jew, stated that lesbianism is just as abominable as gay male sex, Romans 1:26.

[Zelhar]

Maybe in Islam.  All bestiality is forbidden in Judaism, and although there may be punishments by a Torah state for homosexuals caught in the act, I doubt that "throwing them off a building" would be the form of execution used.

How on earth do you catch a homosexual in the act? I don't think I want to know.

LOL great question

Maybe one of the participants gets cold feet and then reports his buddy to the beth din....

Some of these people have a habit of doing "it" in public parks, beaches etc. I believe this type of act may constitute being caught on the act if there are two or more unfortunate witnesses present.

[Dr. Dan]

I'm not going to be the rabbinic authority on this answer, but I will do my best to answer you question.

In a situation in a home where a young couple cannot even afford a morsel of bread for shabbat, it is permitted to use certain types of birth control as long as the man isn't spilling his seed ( withdrawl) and as long as he is cleaving to his wife when they have sex.  Therefore, some rabbis might allow the use of birth control pills in this situation. I have heard of it before for a couple of orthodox Jews I know.

"A man should cleave to his wife's skin"...I think that is the quote that indicates that sex between a husband and wife shoudl be as natural as possible.  Unless health were an issue, condoms shouldn't be used between husband and wife.

Thanks Dr. Dan. I have to wonder if preventing children that the couple could not afford to care for would be a valid reason in Judaism. Ideally righteous people should have as many children as they can, but what if they're not able to provide for more than one or two children?

[Rubystars]

I'm not going to be the rabbinic authority on this answer, but I will do my best to answer you question.

In a situation in a home where a young couple cannot even afford a morsel of bread for shabbat, it is permitted to use certain types of birth control as long as the man isn't spilling his seed ( withdrawl) and as long as he is cleaving to his wife when they have sex.  Therefore, some rabbis might allow the use of birth control pills in this situation. I have heard of it before for a couple of orthodox Jews I know.

Thank you Dr. Dan.

[✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ]

Being gay is a mental sickness/disorder, which can be cured by Yoga. I hope the gay people take to it, and overcome their disorder, and become normal.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

What exactly is the Hindu position on homosexuality?

I thought that India has a hijra caste of transgendered people, who generally make their living as prostitutes. What does Hinduism say about them?

[✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ]

What exactly is the Hindu position on homosexuality?

I thought that India has a hijra caste of transgendered people, who generally make their living as prostitutes. What does Hinduism say about them?

yes the hijras exist, but its not a caste, its third gender.. they live in isolation and hardly come out in general public or society.

about the position of hindus on this,
http://www.merinews.com/article/no-gay-marriages-in-religious-places-vhp/15775714.shtml

btw India's most celebrated gay personality is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manvendra_Singh_Gohil
He was on Ophra too LOL
Being a prince, he got lot of media coverage. But the day he announced his orientation, his princely family disowned him!

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

How can religious Hindus be against the hijras when traditional Hindu culture believes that a third gender really exists?

[Zelhar]

I have the impression that Hinduism sort of tolerates the hijras, but in a very marginal place of society. Hijras traditionally make their living by demanding ransom money so they don't crash uninvited to celebrations and festivities, and of course also from prostitution.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Hijras are certainly the closest thing to "gay" people in the established Western sense, even if they wouldn't define themselves as such.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I'm trying to remember who lists that as one of the practices of the Egyptians that it is referring to.   I believe it might have been Rambam.   With respect to Chaim and of course the Rambam, I think there is a wide array of opinion on this and many hold that it is in a category of 'not necessarily assur but still discouraged.'  That sort of thing.   There is also the opinion that it's allowed.   But even by them, I'm sure that changes once a girl is married.

Not to promote Christianity but the apostle Paul, speaking as a Pharisaical Jew, stated that lesbianism is just as abominable as gay male sex, Romans 1:26.

With all due respect, I meant there is a wider array of opinion within the Jewish sources.   Outside of that... you know what they say opinions are like.... everybody's got one....

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Being gay is a mental sickness/disorder, which can be cured by Yoga. I hope the gay people take to it, and overcome their disorder, and become normal.

Really?  Why yoga?   How does it fix that?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I thought the Jewish consensus is that female gayness is just as detestable as male homosexuality because it is an Egyptian practice. Wouldn't the great Ravs have been familiar with what the Egyptian Nazis did?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I thought the Jewish consensus is that female gayness is just as detestable as male homosexuality because it is an Egyptian practice. Wouldn't the great Ravs have been familiar with what the Egyptian Nazis did?

Like I said, I think Chaim was quoting the Rambam, but I don't think every authority agreed on this.  (that's not to say Rambam was wrong.   Many times many of the great rabbis had different opinions about different verses).   It may be that according to them, Rambam saw this practice as contempory evil in Egyptian society and assumed it went back to before when the Jews were in Egypt, AND that that verse refers to it.   Or they could agree he is right that this egyptian perversion goes back to when we were in Egypt, but they say that the verse is not referring to that.    That verse is very vague.   Rambam attached it specifically to this.   But halachically speaking, all I will say is, every woman should get a psak from her qualified orthodox rabbi.     I don't think it's so clearcut.... But I'm not an expert on this..... I only remember vaguely reading about it.

[Rubystars]

I have a lot of compassion for the Hijras. Some of them were born with ambiguous genitalia, others had surgeries later because of their personal feelings. A lot of families feel like they have to give up a baby that's not clearly a boy or a girl. However they are not given any real compassion by society and are sort of forced into the lifestyle they hold. They're not really allowed to merge into mainstream society and because they are stereotyped, they live out that stereotype and act even MORE flamboyant than they otherwise would. I saw one video on zootube that showed Hijras "begging" by exposing themselves at market stalls until the vendor of the stall gave them money to move on to the next vendor. This is one way they have to make a living. Most also engage in prostitution too but I don't really feel this is necessarily their fault. Maybe they just need some help from society.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I have a lot of compassion for the Hijras. Some of them were born with ambiguous genitalia, others had surgeries later because of their personal feelings. A lot of families feel like they have to give up a baby that's not clearly a boy or a girl. However they are not given any real compassion by society and are sort of forced into the lifestyle they hold. They're not really allowed to merge into mainstream society and because they are stereotyped, they live out that stereotype and act even MORE flamboyant than they otherwise would. I saw one video on zootube that showed Hijras "begging" by exposing themselves at market stalls until the vendor of the stall gave them money to move on to the next vendor. This is one way they have to make a living. Most also engage in prostitution too but I don't really feel this is necessarily their fault. Maybe they just need some help from society.

Never thought of it that way, but good point.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

                                                                                                                                                בס''ד

Tron, you ask if it is possible to change a homosexual. According to our Torah, it is possible and there are many former homosexuals who are now happy and straight.

However, let me give you an example of a homosexual who will not change:

Let's say there is an effeminate 18 year old homosexual who lives in Israel and who spends his time monitoring JTF and HaYamin HaAmiti. He even joins JTF, pretending to be an American Jew who lives in the East Village in New York City. But he's actually an active Israeli queer. He would rather live in New York because he knows that most Israelis do not like effeminate queers like him. He knows that if he tried to kiss another queer in the street of any average Jewish neighborhood in Israel, most Israelis would be very angry to see such a disgusting sight. So he lives a life of self-hatred and shame and fear. Although he desperately tries to find happiness, he is frustrated and miserable. He convinces himself that the religious are ignorant, foolish and backward even though most of the secular Israelis also dislike him.

He could change if he really tried, but he doesn't want to. He could find happiness if he was willing to discover the Torah way of life, but he hates the Torah and hates Judaism.

Sound familiar, Tron?

[The One and Only Mo]

                                                                                                                                                בס''ד

Tron, you ask if it is possible to change a homosexual. According to our Torah, it is possible and there are many former homosexuals who are now happy and straight.

However, let me give you an example of a homosexual who will not change:

Let's say there is an effeminate 18 year old homosexual who lives in Israel and who spends his time monitoring JTF and HaYamin HaAmiti. He even joins JTF, pretending to be an American Jew who lives in the East Village in New York City. But he's actually an active Israeli queer. He would rather live in New York because he knows that most Israelis do not like effeminate queers like him. He knows that if he tried to kiss another queer in the street of any average Jewish neighborhood in Israel, most Israelis would be very angry to see such a disgusting sight. So he lives a life of self-hatred and shame and fear. Although he desperately tries to find happiness, he is frustrated and miserable. He convinces himself that the religious are ignorant, foolish and backward even though most of the secular Israelis also dislike him.

He could change if he really tried, but he doesn't want to. He could find happiness if he was willing to discover the Torah way of life, but he hates the Torah and hates Judaism.

Sound familiar, Tron?

Burned!

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

                                                                                                                                                בס''ד

Tron, you ask if it is possible to change a homosexual. According to our Torah, it is possible and there are many former homosexuals who are now happy and straight.

However, let me give you an example of a homosexual who will not change:

Let's say there is an effeminate 18 year old homosexual who lives in Israel and who spends his time monitoring JTF and HaYamin HaAmiti. He even joins JTF, pretending to be an American Jew who lives in the East Village in New York City. But he's actually an active Israeli queer. He would rather live in New York because he knows that most Israelis do not like effeminate queers like him. He knows that if he tried to kiss another queer in the street of any average Jewish neighborhood in Israel, most Israelis would be very angry to see such a disgusting sight. So he lives a life of self-hatred and shame and fear. Although he desperately tries to find happiness, he is frustrated and miserable. He convinces himself that the religious are ignorant, foolish and backward even though most of the secular Israelis also dislike him.

He could change if he really tried, but he doesn't want to. He could find happiness if he was willing to discover the Torah way of life, but he hates the Torah and hates Judaism.

Sound familiar, Tron?

Pwned.

[muman613]

I don't understand... Why is he being dealt with like this? I have looked at his postings and nothing seems to indicate what is being said.

Is there something I am missing?

[Hyades]

I am a little confused either!

[Zelhar]

I don't understand... Why is he being dealt with like this? I have looked at his postings and nothing seems to indicate what is being said.

Is there something I am missing?

We had a homosexual user in Haymin's forum who supposedly is 18 years old before military service. I suppose Chaim has a good reason to think Tron is the same user. That man claimed that he came to converse and try to reach understanding but not so long after he turned very vicious especially towards Chaim. It seems like his true intention was just to insight and create division in the forum.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

I don't understand... Why is he being dealt with like this? I have looked at his postings and nothing seems to indicate what is being said.

Is there something I am missing?

We had a homosexual user in Haymin's forum who supposedly is 18 years old before military service. I suppose Chaim has a good reason to think Tron is the same user. That man claimed that he came to converse and try to reach understanding but not so long after he turned very vicious especially towards Chaim. It seems like his true intention was just to insight and create division in the forum.

Zelhar, this is not לא משנה or ראש פתוח. This is a different homosexual who joined our Hebrew forum earlier.

He kept spamming our forum with pictures of the homosexual parade. So I had to ban him. If he had not spammed our forum with the pictures, I would have allowed him to argue with us. But like the other homosexuals, he couldn't control himself. He also wrote that 96% of the homosexuals and lesbians serve in the Israeli army. That's absurd. He just made up ridiculous "statistics". And as you recall, Zelhar, these people only want to speak about homosexuality. They began to take over most of the discussions and would focus only on this one issue. Frankly, we have other issues that we also want to speak about.

On the English forum, he decided to speak about a number of issues so as not to arouse suspicion. I will not ban him as long as he behaves himself and doesn't spam us with homosexual parade pictures and with links to evil sites. If he just argues honestly and acts like a civilized human being, I will not ban him.

[Muck DeFuslims]

My orthodox friend told me about how girl on girl was not written against exactly. Am I allowed to say thats hot?

Girl on girl is disgusting. If you truly think it's hot you have clearly been brainwashed by our culture.

True, it is all sick... When sex is used like this it makes Hashem disgusted at mankind. While Hashem wanted sexual relations to be pleasurable, it was so that we would not become extinct. But the pleasure of sex is being used for simple pleasure, and this is the abomination.

OK, now that Tron has been exposed, ahem, 'outted', I'd like to ask a question.

From Muman's quote above, it seems that we shouldn't have sex for simple pleasure. Rather, the act of having sex seems to be one that should be undertaken mainly for the purpose of procreation.

Now, I've got to tell you, this seems pretty strange to me. Does this mean a man and wife should refrain from having sex unless they're trying to have children ?

I'm of the opinion that sex is healthy and important for a good, lasting, loving relationship between a man and woman - even when they're not trying to build a family or have children.

In the framework of marriage I see absolutely nothing wrong with having sex for pleasure. What better way to express love for each other than to provide each other with sexual pleasure ?

Also this whole idea about not using a condom because it 'wastes' male seed seems crazy to me. Condoms are not OK, but birth control pills are ? Sorry, I just can't accept this stuff. I think if a married couple wants to have sex and not have children as a result, the use of condoms is appropriate. What if the woman doesn't want to take birth control pills because of potential health risks ? Should the couple abstain from having sex rather than use condoms ? Should they only have sex for the purpose of having kids ?

Maybe I'm perverted but I think having a healthy, enjoyable sex life is important to a couple, even if they're not trying to have children.