Learn history - youtube comments are not a good source of accurate information

[t_h_j]

nope, nice try though

Whatever. LOL.

i guess you laugh when you're wrong? well i guess thats a good attitude to have.

[cjd]

Paying a higher price in loss of life to wear down and enemy  doesn't make anyone a main player it makes them  stupid and backwards.  Try it sometime

so you're saying the soviets just had huge hordes that commonly practiced human wave attacks or something?

The soviets fought an obsolete war they fought on horse back at some points against a modern German army. The Russians made up the defecency in human numbers.

Please prove it.

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/cavalry/index.html
I am on a HP mini at the moment thats the best I can do until I am at home.

[cjd]

Paying a higher price in loss of life to wear down and enemy  doesn't make anyone a main player it makes them  stupid and backwards.  Try it sometime

so you're saying the soviets just had huge hordes that commonly practiced human wave attacks or something?

The soviets fought an obsolete war they fought on horse back at some points against a modern German army. The Russians made up the deficiency in human numbers.

how do you think the german infantry lugged around towed artillery in the war?

I am consulting with my father who was there and he said you are correct on this the Germans did use horses to move their artillery. Still they had other modern  equipment that the Russians could only hope for at the start of the war.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

i guess you laugh when you're wrong? well i guess thats a good attitude to have.

I laughed because I had you, retard, and you can't face it.

[MarZutra]

No real comment here aside from "The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact" or "The Hitler-Stalin" pact being the reason WW2 ever started the Soviets played an important however molested role in WW2.  What pisses me off is what is not told.  The earlier pact between Stalin and Hitler allowed Hitler the freedom of a single front war, thus starting WW2 without having to worry about the Red Bear.  Further is what is not taught is the fact that while Hitler was invading Poland from the West, Stalin's Red Army was advancing from the East.  Lastly, the most despicable role of Russia in WW2 was the fact that the allied powers assisted in fabricating the mythology of Nazism being extreme "Right Wing".  The propaganda machines of all Allied Nations, especially America and Britain previously to 22 June 1941: Operation Barbarossa, were anti-Communist which everyone knew was Ultra-Left Wing.  Thus, the need for justifying a logical and ideological enemy, Nazism was painted as "right wing" which continues in 1000s of books, nearly all educational systems, museums and of course all areas of media today dumbing down the supine...

Russia can sink for all I care.  They've earned the hatred of the civilized world.  Hell there were more white slaves in Russia then all the black slaves in the West but one never hears of that...  Sorry to digress.. 

[t_h_j]

i guess you laugh when you're wrong? well i guess thats a good attitude to have.

I laughed because I had you, retard, and you can't face it.

how'd you have me? you answered the question incorrectly, and proved yourself clueless with your "hordes" idiocy

[t_h_j]

Paying a higher price in loss of life to wear down and enemy  doesn't make anyone a main player it makes them  stupid and backwards.  Try it sometime

so you're saying the soviets just had huge hordes that commonly practiced human wave attacks or something?

The soviets fought an obsolete war they fought on horse back at some points against a modern German army. The Russians made up the deficiency in human numbers.

how do you think the german infantry lugged around towed artillery in the war?

I am consulting with my father who was there and he said you are correct on this the Germans did use horses to move their artillery. Still they had other modern  equipment that the Russians could only hope for at the start of the war.

give some examples

[Manch]

Spectator, I expected more from you! Which German Armies in Afrika? One purely equipped 21st Panzer and 5th Leichte (Light) infantry division. Ok, let all the ignoramuses believe that US won the war, but you should know better.

I don't believe US alone won the war. As you could see from the previous thread on this issue, I think USSR played the major part in the battlefield.

It is true that the best tank divisions were used against USSR, but don't forget that USSR was on the brink of defeat. If the wermacht had the African divisions at hand as an addition to what they actually used in the Eastern front, they could have won.

The scenario I was talking about was if Soviets were fighting the war alone from the beginning. Do you really believe USSR would have won the war against the Axis alone?

Yes, I do. Germans could have reached Ural, but they wouldn't win, no way. By the end of 1942 Soviet Industry was back to its pre-war capabilities and significantly outstripped German industry output by 1943. BTW, why noone reverses teh question - if USSR did not fight nazi, or even worse, joined nazi axis (as it was offered to Molotov by sHitler) what exact force would liberate Europe, save Jews and save UK?

[Manch]

Bones, I like you but you are mistaken on the subject. Just ask yourself, how come in 1944 Allies did not face any significant German air force? Where did it all go? If you don't want Russian or British sources, I can recommend you german source - Hans D. Seidl  - "Stalin's Eagle"

Most of the Luftwaffe was pulverized over six months of futile attempts to stop the B17s and 24s. The Thunderbolt, Mustang, and Spitfire made mincemeat of the painfully obsolete 109s and good but altitudinally challenged 190s. The good Soviet fighters (La-7 and MiG-3) didn't see much use until later in 1944.

I completely disagree with you, on all counts. Just do some research.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I have. The La-7 was not out in any numbers until Oct-Nov '44.

[Manch]

Paying a higher price in loss of life to wear down and enemy  doesn't make anyone a main player it makes them  stupid and backwards.  Try it sometime

CJD, you have a lot of hutzpa talking repeating Gobbles propaganda about Red Army, forgetting that it was the force that saved European Jewry, that well over 500,000 Jews we fighting as its soldiers and officers with over 250,000 Jews dead. My grandfathers wore Red Army uniform. what kind of uneducated moron are you?

[t_h_j]

I have. The La-7 was not out in any numbers until Oct-Nov '44.

believe it or not the La-7 wasn't the only "good" soviet fighter.  The mig-3 was in service before the war started, and it wasn't really a great fighter, so what are you talking about?  

[Manch]

Duh, the KV-2 with its 152mm low-velocity howitzer. Same gun was used successfully later in the SU and JSU-152s though.

Why would you say such a nonsense?! Just look at these guns! Why do you care about gun's velocity if you know what KV2 was built for?!

[t_h_j]

Duh, the KV-2 with its 152mm low-velocity howitzer. Same gun was used successfully later in the SU and JSU-152s though.

Why would you say such a nonsense?! Just look at these guns! Why do you care about gun's velocity if you know what KV2 was built for?!

i didn't say that

[Manch]

I have. The La-7 was not out in any numbers until Oct-Nov '44.

Most soviet flyers considered LA-5 and YAK-3 to be the best fighters, prefer it to air cobras. Why would you think that LA-7 was a beginning of modernity in VVS? By the way, it is a well known fact that Germans did use a lot of trophied soviet equipment. It is unknown that they've used any alllies' equipment as it mostly was built for 1930s wars.

[Manch]

I have. The La-7 was not out in any numbers until Oct-Nov '44.

believe it or not the La-7 wasn't the only "good" soviet fighter.  The mig-3 was in service before the war started, and it wasn't really a great fighter, so what are you talking about?  

You probably think of LAGG-3. Mig -1 was available before the war. LAGG-3 was an excellent high altitude fighter, but it was used in low altitutes again ME-109 - it wasn't built for dog fights at these altitudes and was very awkward.

[Manch]

Paying a higher price in loss of life to wear down and enemy  doesn't make anyone a main player it makes them  stupid and backwards.  Try it sometime

so you're saying the soviets just had huge hordes that commonly practiced human wave attacks or something?

The soviets fought an obsolete war they fought on horse back at some points against a modern German army. The Russians made up the defecency in human numbers.

Yes, and you probably believe that Poles attacked German tanks by cavalry charges!  Buy yourself a book, ignoramus

[Manch]

Bones, I like you but you are mistaken on the subject. Just ask yourself, how come in 1944 Allies did not face any significant German air force? Where did it all go? If you don't want Russian or British sources, I can recommend you german source - Hans D. Seidl  - "Stalin's Eagle"

Most of the Luftwaffe was pulverized over six months of futile attempts to stop the B17s and 24s. The Thunderbolt, Mustang, and Spitfire made mincemeat of the painfully obsolete 109s and good but altitudinally challenged 190s. The good Soviet fighters (La-7 and MiG-3) didn't see much use until later in 1944.

Bones, only in two months, July and August, following Citadel in 1943, Luftwaffe in the East lost over 1000 aircraft. Common man, you can do some research!

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I don't know what the hell your problem is dude, but I'm not going to back down from you or anybody.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Bones, only in two months, July and August, following Citadel in 1943, Luftwaffe in the East lost over 1000 aircraft. Common man, you can do some research!

You really need to stop reading Soviet propaganda. Nazis lost 1000 aircraft (total losses) over the whole year of 1943 in the East.

[t_h_j]

I have. The La-7 was not out in any numbers until Oct-Nov '44.

believe it or not the La-7 wasn't the only "good" soviet fighter.  The mig-3 was in service before the war started, and it wasn't really a great fighter, so what are you talking about?  

You probably think of LAGG-3. Mig -1 was available before the war. LAGG-3 was an excellent high altitude fighter, but it was used in low altitutes again ME-109 - it wasn't built for dog fights at these altitudes and was very awkward.

nope, over 1000 mig-3 had been delivered by the time the germans invaded

[t_h_j]

Bones, only in two months, July and August, following Citadel in 1943, Luftwaffe in the East lost over 1000 aircraft. Common man, you can do some research!

You really need to stop reading Soviet propaganda. Nazis lost 1000 aircraft (total losses) over the whole year of 1943 in the East.

lol. completely false.  They lost over 600 aircraft at kursk alone.

[Manch]

lol. completely false.  They lost over 600 aircraft at kursk alone.

Perhaps 600 over Kursk - I don't have these data, but over 1,000 on the whole Eastern Front in those two months. I mentioned July - August which coincided with a Soviet counter stroke which took Red Army far to the West, to Dnepr.

[MarZutra]

It is nice to see some functioning brains here.  Good work! 

[cjd]

Paying a higher price in loss of life to wear down and enemy  doesn't make anyone a main player it makes them  stupid and backwards.  Try it sometime

CJD, you have a lot of hutzpa talking repeating Gobbles propaganda about Red Army, forgetting that it was the force that saved European Jewry, that well over 500,000 Jews we fighting as its soldiers and officers with over 250,000 Jews dead. My grandfathers wore Red Army uniform. what kind of uneducated moron are you?

Russia saved European Jewry? For what so the could torture it after the war was over? What was the the mode of combat you Jews go first and us Russians will back you up? Not to minimize the sacrifice that the Jewish people living in Russia made but I think you are out of your mind. I am done with this ignorant nonsense.