Torah view on woman's cleanliness Are women considered to be unclean?

[Manch]

Hi please help!

Some nazi piece of sh*t posted this to one of my youtube comments:

"Leviticus 12:1-8 Explains that a woman has to be purified after giving birth because she is unclean. It goes on to say that birthing a male is cleaner then birthing a female, hence a mother must purify TWICE as long when having a daughter. This is BLATANT sexism from the point of birth. A woman is dirty simply for being a woman; this is obviously very biased and chauvinistic."

Please educate me on what Torah really teaches about woman vs. male, in particular the aspect of cleanliness. Toda Raba!

[muman613]

Hi please help!

Some nazi piece of sh*t posted this to one of my youtube comments:

"Leviticus 12:1-8 Explains that a woman has to be purified after giving birth because she is unclean. It goes on to say that birthing a male is cleaner then birthing a female, hence a mother must purify TWICE as long when having a daughter. This is BLATANT sexism from the point of birth. A woman is dirty simply for being a woman; this is obviously very biased and chauvinistic."

Please educate me on what Torah really teaches about woman vs. male, in particular the aspect of cleanliness. Toda Raba!

Obviously a lot of things in Judaism can, and will be, taken out of context and used against us.

One only has to study the commentary and the sages writings on the subjects in order to understand the reason for the commandments of family purity. The mikvah is one of the biggest mitzvahs a woman has, to keep herself in a clean state so that she may have conjugal relations with the husband.

There are laws concerning unpure nocturnal emissions of men which require the man to go to a mikvah to purify himself.

Here is a discussion of the Torah Parasha of Tazria in which this command is written:

http://www.aish.com/tp/b/sw/48962456.html


Spiritually Pure
by Rabbi Shraga Simmons

One problem that causes difficulty in learning about various concepts in Judaism is the translation of Hebrew words. Many of these words have no precise English definition because they express spiritual ideas that have no parallel in English culture.

Such is the case with the words "Tahara" and "Tuma," two concepts which receive prominent treatment in this week's Parasha.

These words are popularly translated as "purity" and "impurity."

In English, the word "pure" implies something perfectly clean, flawless, unpolluted or innocent. Ivory Soap is advertised as "99.44% pure."

A quick check of the word "impure" in your thesaurus will yield synonyms such as contaminated, corrupt, tainted, and unclean.

That is why so many people think that "Tamay" means "spiritually undesirable" or "dirty."

This misconception, coupled with the belief that "Tuma" applies only to women and sexuality, creates the impression that women are discriminated against in Judaism, and that sexuality is considered "dirty."

Nothing could be further from the truth.

* * *

GOOD AND EVIL, LIFE AND DEATH

The central tenet of Judaism is that G-d is one. Absolutely one. There is no force that exists independent of Him.

Man's struggle in this world - the exercise of his free will - is in choosing either to move toward G-d and reality, or to move away from G-d, to illusion or nothingness.

We call these choices "good" and "evil." When man makes a choice that moves him closer to G-d, he is choosing "good." When he makes a choice that moves him away from G-d, he is choosing "evil" (see Maimonides, "Guide for the Perplexed" 3:23).

Evil has no intrinsic reality. It is the absence of good, or the absence of an open manifestation of G-d. G-d's existence can be open and clear to us, or it can be hidden from us.

The open presence of G-d is what we call "Tahara." A state of G-d's hiddenness is what we call "Tuma."

In other words,"Tuma" is really a "Tahara-vacuum."

The state of Tuma can devolve upon men, women and animals. When the open presence of G-d - the soul, or life - leaves a man, woman or animal, that body becomes Tamay.

* * *

SOURCES OF TUMA

Let's go back to the English concept of "Tuma" as "spiritually undesirable" or "dirty."

Which would you think is more "spiritually un-clean" - a dead dog or a dead human being?

Most people would think a dog is more "spiritually unclean" because it is a lower form of existence than a human being.

Actually, the dead body of a human being contains a much greater degree of "Tuma."

Because the human being, when it is alive and filled with a soul - the open manifestation of G-d's presence - has a much greater condition of Tahara. The manifestation of Godliness within a human being is far greater than that within an animal. Therefore, when the soul departs, it leaves behind a much greater vacuum of Tahara, a much stronger Tuma, than that of an animal.

Next in the ranks of "Tuma" is a Yoledet: a woman who gives birth (Leviticus 12:2). The reason she is Tamay is that a degree of spiritual vacuum is created by the departure of the extra life within her - the child.

It is interesting that when a woman gives birth to a girl, her state of "Tuma" is twice that of when she gives birth to a boy (Leviticus 12:5). That is because the presence of a female child within her gives her a greater state of "Tahara." The female bears within her the power to give life, a condition that is an open manifestation of Godliness, and a higher level of "Tahara." The departure of a female child, therefore, creates a greater spiritual vacuum. Hence, the woman is Tamay for a longer period of time.

* * *

WHISPER OF DEATH

Next amongst the degrees of Tuma is the loss of "potential life." This Tuma affects both men and women.

After having marital relations, men are in a state of Tuma, because of the loss of the "building blocks" of life within them (Leviticus 15:16). And women incur this state of Tuma when they menstruate, because of the loss of potential life within them (Leviticus 15:19).

The Talmud calls this a "whisper of death."

Tuma is not a description of spiritual inferiority, impurity or uncleanliness. Rather, it describes a loss of life.

I hope this helps clear up a misconception.

[muman613]

On another note, Judaisms treatment of women is much better than most societies treatment of women. Only hard-core feminists will complain about Judaism and its treatment of women. Woman are not inferior in Jewish belief, they are just different from men.

I was thinking about this topic the other day. We are not, men and women, actually equals. We are two unique beings who share a common part, the soul. In order to attain completion these two parts must work together. It is nice in the 'modern' world to think we are all equal. But one just has to look around and realize that we are not all equal. Far from it, we all have unique abilities and gifts which we either utilize or we don't.

We are all created with potential which can be used for the ultimate good, the will of Hashem. Man and woman are two parts of one being, the human being {or in my family the uman being}.

Just as men are required to keep themselves clean, so are women required in order to keep peace in the house. There is a whole field in Judaism known as "Shalom Bayit" or Peace in the Home... The Rabbi talks to the men seperately from the women, and tells them different things. Each has a role in achieving completion. The goal is to have a family, to be able to give to society and to our fellow man, and to leave a legacy of peace and accomplishments and learning.

Women are welcome in the workplace as long as it doesn't impact the family. I know a Jewish family where the woman works while the husband stays home with the children, and they are sending the youngest one to a Jewish dayschool.

There are many examples of women who are honored in Jewish stories.

This is one of the favorite songs of Shabbat, where the woman of the house is honored:

Eishet Chayil
A Woman of Valor, who can find? She is more precious than corals.
Her husband places his trust in her and profits only thereby.
She brings him good, not harm, all the days of her life.
She seeks out wool and flax and cheerfully does the work of her hands.
She is like the trading ships, bringing food from afar.
She gets up while it is still night to provide food for her household, and a fair share for her staff.
She considers a field and purchases it, and plants a vineyard with the fruit of her labors.
She invests herself with strength and makes her arms powerful.
She senses that her trade is profitable; her light does not go out at night.
She stretches out her hands to the distaff and her palms hold the spindle.
She opens her hands to the poor and reaches out her hands to the needy.
She has no fear of the snow for her household, for all her household is dressed in fine clothing.
She makes her own bedspreads; her clothing is of fine linen and luxurious cloth.
Her husband is known at the gates, where he sits with the elders of the land.
She makes and sells linens; she supplies the merchants with sashes.
She is robed in strength and dignity, and she smiles at the future.
She opens her mouth with wisdom and a lesson of kindness is on her tongue.
She looks after the conduct of her household and never tastes the bread of laziness.
Her children rise up and make her happy; her husband praises her:
"Many women have excelled, but you excell them all!"
Grace is elusive and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears God -- she shall be praised.
Give her credit for the fruit of her labors, and let her achievements praise her at the gates.

[Manch]

Thanks Muman, I carefully read your source and of course now it makes sense! I've bookmarked that page and will peruse this site for future learning. I also share your view that woman and man are not equal but complimentary to each other.

Talmud is probably one of the most hated and deliberately misquoted books. I wonder why.

[muman613]

This is a good article on Aish.com which is written by a woman who returned to Judaism and learned to love the mikvah...


http://www.aish.com/ci/w/48960916.html
Taking the Spiritual Dive
by Mindy McLees

Mikvah for the thoroughly modern woman

I began my married life with a non-Jewish husband, an ambitious nature, a college degree, and a bit of an attitude. Sure, I was a spiritual person, although I couldn't define spirituality for you, except to say it was a character trait that you either had or didn't have. It was something you just felt. It meant being a good person and having the ability to empathize when something bad happened, the ability to make a nice toast at Thanksgiving, the ability to feel sad at a sad movie. That didn't have anything to do with G-d, right?

In his 30's my husband, a business executive, had a premature mid-life crisis. Unlike some men, my husband's crisis was one of faith and spirituality (there is that word again) and did not include a red sports car. My husband found Judaism and was searching a spiritual path that would eventually lead to a Conservative and then an Orthodox conversion.

In beginning my own spiritual quest, I found myself sitting unexpectedly with two women who were learning with an Orthodox rebbetzin about the Mikvah, the Jewish ritual bath. I was there by accident. I didn't pick the topic. At first, I really had no idea what we were learning. I liked the rebbetzin. Very quickly, I found l liked the women.

Like me, these women were not from religious backgrounds. They were smart and funny, and we laughed our way through this intimate class. We were discussing our spiritual love lives. It was not unlike an episode of a certain infamous TV show set in New York City. We were just four women talking. Sure, we were not drinking Cosmopolitans and we were sitting in a shul, but hey, we were being real and there were no cameras recording us.

JUST SAY NO

I was being introduced to an ancient approach to marital harmony -- a truly kosher approach to intimacy: the mitzvah of Taharat HaMishpacha or Family Purity. It wasn't at all what I thought. It didn't include any of the angry repressive ideas that I had heard about from my grandmother. It was a loving approach to intimacy that did not demean the participants or generate guilty feelings about our bodies. What a revelation.

Simply put, it's a system of some "no physical contact" days every month during the time a woman menstruates plus another seven days, followed by immersion in the waters of the mikvah. That means a minimum of 12 days without any touching. Oy. That's a long time. Why would a modern, married woman impose such a system on herself, not to mention her "happy-with-the-way-it-is-now" husband? Limiting physical intimacy, at first, seems counterproductive. How would it affect my marriage?

For several weeks, the four of us gathered in the shul to learn about the mitzvah. None of us had committed to actually going into the mikvah. I kept repeating that I was there just for the learning and the company, not for the how-to part. Um, I don't need this stuff thank you, but it started to sound good.

Then there was learning all the information about the mikvah dip itself. I went to see the mikvah in our community and it was beautiful. It wasn't like a black pit under the shul; it was like a women's spa.

The claim was that Taharat HaMishpacha did wonders in recapturing the magic of being newlyweds and maintaining freshness and romance in marriage. Eventually I was intrigued enough to decide to take the plunge.

...
http://www.aish.com/ci/w/48960916.html

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Eishet Chayil is Proverbs 31, correct?

[The One and Only Mo]

OK I think we've already established that women are dirty anyways and are full of cooties.

[Moshe92]

Eishet Chayil is Proverbs 31, correct?

yes

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

OK I think we've already established that women are dirty anyways and are full of cooties.

lol