We Must Learn Ktav Ivri

[Sefardic Panther]

The Torah was given to Mosheh Rabeinu written in Ktav Ivri (literally “Hebrew writing”). After the Babylonian exile Ezra changed the letters to Ktav Ashurith (literally “Aramaic writing”) the regular Hebrew letters that everyone today is familiar with.

I think it was when the hand wrote on the wall (which made king Belshatser dump in his pants) the hand wrote in Ktav Ashurith and the Yehudim adopted that alphabet as holy and later used it to write the Mishnah and all Sifrei Torah. Although Yehudi freedom fighters struggling against the romans minted coins in the original Ktav Ivri letters as a symbol of nationalistic revival.





I used the font “Aramaic Sans” (ironically named since the regular Hebrew font is infact Aramaic) in the unitype global writer to write all 22 letters of the Ktav Ivri alphabet.



Writing Toranic words in their original Ktav Ivri letters can reveal further meaning like gematria. For instance the Ktav Ivri Alef is an ox and implies strength and the Ktav Ivri Bet is a house. Thus Ktav Ivri reveals that the av is the “strength (of the) house”.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Interesting.  I think the ktav ivri was always considered the regular writing, so people used that for documents, engravings, etc.   But when the ktav ashurit was adopted, it was considered a holy writing so they did not use it for mundane things and that is why you will not see casual letters written in the block letter script from archaeological finds.  It was reserved only for sifrei Torah, maybe ketubot, etc

[Sefardic Panther]

I don’t think there are any books, lectures or dvds on the mystical significance of Ktav Ivri. But when it comes to Ktav Ashurith we are spoiled for choice and its usually claimed that the Torah was given to Mosheh Rabeinu in Ktav Ashurith. Although the Torah strongly implies that the original writing was Ktav Ivri and Talmud Bavli, Sanhedrin 21b says that Mar Zutra said the Torah was given to Mosheh Rabeinu in Ktav Ivri.   

The unitype globel writer font above is not entirely accurate. Here is a better chart –



The Mogen Dawid is the 2 Ktav Ivri Dalets of the name DaWiD entangled.

One of the best orthodox Jewish websites has a good chart of the earliest form of Ktav Ivri –

http://www.chayas.com/hebrewpictorial.htm

Note the Kaf, it was no doubt the origin of the Hamsa.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The Mogen Dawid is the 2 Ktav Ivri Dalets of the name DaWiD entangled.

Wow, that's very interesting.   Makes a lot of sense now too.    People made up a lot of crazy theories about the magen Dawid that I always thought were baseless.   This is probably the only sound explanation I've seen, and I'm willing to bet this is where it came from.     Dawid is Daleth w' Daleth.   Daleth and Daleth.     The waw came to mean 'and.'    So they put together the symbol out of that.    Not out of pagan khazarian beliefs or whatever else lol.

[muman613]

The Mogen Dawid is the 2 Ktav Ivri Dalets of the name DaWiD entangled.

Wow, that's very interesting.   Makes a lot of sense now too.    People made up a lot of crazy theories about the magen Dawid that I always thought were baseless.   This is probably the only sound explanation I've seen, and I'm willing to bet this is where it came from.     Dawid is Daleth w' Daleth.   Daleth and Daleth.     The waw came to mean 'and.'    So they put together the symbol out of that.    Not out of pagan khazarian beliefs or whatever else lol.

I know that you KWRBT use yemenese pronunciation... We pronounce it Vav, and it means And, and the name is DaViD...

[muman613]

http://www.globalyeshiva.com/forum/topics/the-hebrew-language-and-the

To show how our language has been affected by change, I will bring down the following example. In Israel, there is what is called a "normative way" of speaking. For example, the Hebrew letter "vav" (ו), originally pronounced by the Yemenites and all Sephardic communities as "waw," is now enunciated by all Israelis in their daily conversations as "vav" – with an English "v" sound. However, in the synagogue services, e.g. prayers and liturgies, as well as Torah readings, the Yemenites will still uphold their traditional reading, giving the phonetic sound of an English "w" to the "vav" (ו) – as in "wayomer" ויאמר, instead of "vayomer." This is because European Jewry was steeped for many centuries in the German culture, and Yiddish (the Lingua Franca of European Jews) has its marked German influence, as everyone knows. However, what very few people know is that in the German language there is no "w" sound, as in English. In German, as also in Yiddish, the "w" is pronounced as an English "v," as in "waser" (water) = pronounced "vasser;" or "was," (what) = pronounced "vass." So, naturally, having no "w" sound, when the first European Jews came up to this country, they persisted in their usage of the Hebrew letter ו (waw) as they had been accustomed in their old country, and who, as noted, had been reared upon the German language, pronouncing it as "vav." Their native speech and vernacular soon spread amongst the common people in the land, mostly amongst the young and the poor who had come from Oriental societies and cultures, and who often thought of their own cultures as being inferior to that of Ashkenazi culture. This, then, accounts for the way the "waw" was exchanged for "vav."

[Spectator]

By the way, in Hebrew the word "dalet" (דלת) can be vocalized as "delet" which means "door".

I head the following explanation of the name David: Dalet and Dalet, i.e. door and door. When man opens door to seek G-d, G-d also opens His door to the man to let him in. David means closeness between G-d and man.

King David was definitely the man who could be so close to G-d. Just read his Tehillim (Psalms) to feel how close!

[muman613]

By the way, in Hebrew the word "dalet" (דלת) can be vocalized as "delet" which means "door".

I head the following explanation of the name David: Dalet and Dalet, i.e. door and door. When man opens door to seek G-d, G-d also opens His door to the man to let him in. David means closeness between G-d and man.

King David was definitely the man who could be so close to G-d. Just read his Tehillim (Psalms) to feel how close!

David HaMelech was quite a Jewish man... He had so many enemies, and such things were said about him, yet he maintained his Bitachon {Trust} in Hashem and composed some of the most intimate expressions of Bein Adam L'Makom that we know. I study Tehillim each day, and try to see things daily through those Psalms.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The Mogen Dawid is the 2 Ktav Ivri Dalets of the name DaWiD entangled.

Wow, that's very interesting.   Makes a lot of sense now too.    People made up a lot of crazy theories about the magen Dawid that I always thought were baseless.   This is probably the only sound explanation I've seen, and I'm willing to bet this is where it came from.     Dawid is Daleth w' Daleth.   Daleth and Daleth.     The waw came to mean 'and.'    So they put together the symbol out of that.    Not out of pagan khazarian beliefs or whatever else lol.

I know that you KWRBT use yemenese pronunciation... We pronounce it Vav, and it means And, and the name is DaViD...

Dude, I know both pronunciations and I use them interchangably although I prefer to use the CORRECT pronunciation.  I think it would be Teymani, or Yemenite, not Yemenese.   But the Yemenite way of saying the Waw is correct, make no mistake.   It only later in Europe became pronounced as VAV.      Do you really think I don't know the ashkenazi pronunciation?   I prefer to write formally, which means using accurate terms.     I would speak it with other people too but most people would think I'm crazy and/or can't understand it.   There is no reason to "correct" what I wrote and say 'the name is David.'    David is an English name based on the Hebrew.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

http://www.globalyeshiva.com/forum/topics/the-hebrew-language-and-the

To show how our language has been affected by change, I will bring down the following example. In Israel, there is what is called a "normative way" of speaking. For example, the Hebrew letter "vav" (ו), originally pronounced by the Yemenites and all Sefardic communities as "waw," is now enunciated by all Israelis in their daily conversations as "vav" – with an English "v" sound.

Right, that's because they "chose" the European pronunciation of the waw when they recreated Hebrew for modern usage in every day speaking.    They had to choose one normative way for the language, that does not mean it was an educated choice or that it is correct.   It would be really bizarre for me not to know this.   That would mean I've never interacted with any Ashkenazi Jews (even though they are in my own family), and what really are the chances of that?

[Spectator]

Yes Muman, David's bitachon is incredible. In Pslam 27 that we add now in the month of Elul to our prayers, there are such verses:

Though a host should encamp against me, my heart shall not fear;
though war should rise up against me, even then will I be confident.

(translation from http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2627.htm)

Actually in Hebrew the second line is even more powerful:

Im takum alay milchama, be-zot ani boteyach. Literally "if war rises up against me, in IT I will be confident". And our Sages explain: I will be confident that the war that is waged against me is nothing but Hashem's mercy. The Holy one wants me to think about my sins and errors and repent.

[Spectator]

Babylonian (Iraqi) Jews also pronounce vav as w.

In fact, the hardline atheists who dominated early Zionist movement wanted to get rid of Judaism. As they were Ashkenazim, they prefrerred to use Sepharadi pronunciation because the Ashkenazi one reminded them of the prayers and Torah study. But they couldn't adopt the Sepharadi one in its entirety because it is hard for most people who speak European languages to pronounce het, ayin, quf, and for Yiddish speakers, waw and resh.

So we can say that standard modern Hebrew pronunciation is not Sepharadi but rather "Ashkenazicized Sepharadi"

[muman613]

I apologize if I was being arrogant in my original post... It was not intended... I know you know both pronunciations and I am certainly not implying that Ashkenazi pronunciation is 'correct'. As a matter of fact I think it sounds very good, misswah versus mitzvah. But at this time I would have a really hard time adjusting to that pronunciation after so many learning it this way. I am accepting of all varieties of Hebrew, as we know the differences in Tav   {which I occasionally pronounce as S, as in Emes [versus Emet]}

I do not presume that my understanding is as good as yours but we can agree that both are acceptable.

[muman613]

Interesting that this topic is discussed at A7 forums:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Forum/Forum.aspx/t108959

[Moshe92]

Rav Amnon Yitzhak is Yemenite, and he often pronounces the ח and כ sounds almost like a ה sound. Is that the Yemenite pronounciation, or is that just how Rav Yitzhak talks?

[Spectator]

Rav Amnon Yitzhak is Yemenite, and he often pronounces the ח and כ sounds almost like a ה sound. Is that the Yemenite pronounciation, or is that just how Rav Yitzhak talks?

כ is pronounced as "kh". ח is indeed pronounced as ה but without voice. It actually sounds like breathing out, close to English "h".

(Unfortunately, in standard modern Hebrew both these letters are pronounced as "kh")

[Hyades]

I have the old Hebrew font on my PC. You can download it for free from the Web. It is indeed interesting.

[Sefardic Panther]

We should not write Ktav Ivri the same way the canaanites, samaritans and other goyim wrote their letters. Ktav Ivri should not be confused with phoenecian or whatever.

As far as I know the only Yehudim who have preserved the original Ktav Ivri letters are the Habbani who practiced Abir –







http://www.youtube.com/user/habbani

For thousands of years they have been doing meditational/kong fu techniques based on the Ktav Ivri letters. This is actually another reason why we must learn Ktav Ivri. Every Jew should learn Abir especially if it is illegal to own a gun where you live. Then if you are confronted by anti semites you can fly around like bruce lee and rip them to pieces with your bare hands.