Poll

What religion do you classify yourself with?

Secular Judaism
5 (13.5%)
Orthodox Judaism
6 (16.2%)
Conservative/Traditional Judaism
6 (16.2%)
Reform Judaism
1 (2.7%)
Heredi Judaism (Zionist)
0 (0%)
Heredi Judaism (Non-Zionist)
0 (0%)
Not Jewish; Christian
12 (32.4%)
Not Jewish; Agnostic
0 (0%)
Not Jewish; Atheist
1 (2.7%)
Not Jewish; Other
4 (10.8%)
Jewish - Other
2 (5.4%)

Total Members Voted: 0

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Offline FreedomFighter08

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What religion do you classify yourself with?
« on: September 05, 2009, 11:21:23 PM »
Just want to know.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2009, 11:23:33 PM »
Orthodox Judaism, and very zionist.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2009, 11:29:32 PM »
non-denominational Christianity

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2009, 11:45:50 PM »
ISLAM!!!*


















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Offline ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2009, 12:17:56 AM »
Pastafarianism :laugh:

Offline Confederate Kahanist

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2009, 02:29:13 AM »
ISLAM!!!*




The you should be banned  :laugh:








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Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2009, 02:05:25 PM »
Orthodox Judaism, and very zionist.
I'm trying to associate myself more with the Yeshivish crowd. Do you know the difference between Orthodox and Hareidi?

Offline SW

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2009, 03:20:46 PM »
Christian Zionist Kahanist

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2009, 03:21:23 PM »
Christian Zionist Kahanist

Say THAT 10 times quickly. :laugh:

Offline TruthSpreader

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2009, 03:23:00 PM »
Christianity. Glad no one picked Islam.
Dan - Stay calm and be brave in order to judge correctly and make the right decision

Offline SW

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2009, 03:37:21 PM »

Offline Spectator

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2009, 04:06:30 PM »
Orthodox Judaism, and very zionist.
I'm trying to associate myself more with the Yeshivish crowd. Do you know the difference between Orthodox and Hareidi?

In Israel:

Orthodox wear knitted kippas. Their "major" is the Settlement and Defence of the Land of Israel. JTF is Orthodox.

Hareidi (aka "Ultra-Orthodox") wear black hats and suits. Their "major" is Torah study. There are anti-Zionist ones (like Satmar Chassidim) and non-Zionist (other kind of Chassidim, Litayim ("Litvaks"), and some Sefaradim).
Do not put your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help (Psalms 146:3)

Offline Spectator

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2009, 04:12:07 PM »
BTW, "non-Zionist" means they are not against the very idea of the Jewish state but are strongly against the secular and non-Jewish way it is governed.
Do not put your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help (Psalms 146:3)

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2009, 04:13:23 PM »
Orthodox Judaism, and very zionist.
I'm trying to associate myself more with the Yeshivish crowd. Do you know the difference between Orthodox and Hareidi?

Yes, and that is why I do not identify as haredi.   Yeshivish is a branch of haredi.  

The haredi outlook separates nationalism from Judaism, and to me that is less than honest.   That is only one of the reasons, but in general, haredim can be seen wearing black hats and believe in the "learn-Torah-only" philosophy to change the world.  And the "daas Toyrah" concept that is all the rage these days, really stifles independent thought, and I personally think that is dangerous and wrong for Jewish culture.  In truth, there are sources for such a concept and against such a concept, but you wouldn't think that based on hanging out in haredi groups or society.  They'd have you believe it's all or nothing, their way, and nothing else is legitimate Judaism.  I find that is a problem in general with their outlook on Judaism.  

Re: the learn-Torah-only philosophy.   A lot gets sacrificed in order to feed such an ideal.   Working and feeding family is one of them.   I don't believe in that.   Orthodox to me is sensible, real Judaism, not an outgrowth over the past century or so.   It strives for a balance, ala Rambam, it is in this world, practical, and there is a place for nationalism and activism and the use of one's own intellect and rational thought.  And perhaps less mystical.  Rabbi Kahane was haredi in observance of halacha, but his hashkafa was certainly not.   This is where I probably fall, somewhere in a similar category to him.   I identify strongly with Dati Leumi, much more so than Modern Orthodox.   I hope I will live in Israel eventually.

(And when I say observance of halacha for Rabbi Kahane, that of course does not include how he viewed his relationship to his Rav, or how he determined when it was appropriate to act for the Jewish people and when it was not.   Because in that case, some haredim would argue the halacha is always against that - including his rosh yeshiva who refused to do anything to help Soviet Jews and attacked Rabbi Kahane for doing something.   People often cite this rabbi's "disapproval" as somehow making Rabbi Kahane or his views "pasul" chas veshalom.  They like to say, look he was an extremist look at what his rosh yeshiva said... yadda yadda yadda.    These people are irritating in their ignorance.   
I remind them of what I read about the incident where Rabbi Kahane challenged his Rosh Yeshiva by saying something like "you don't believe in activism, you're against the protests and the things I do, fine, I understand that.  You can believe that.  But not ONE TIME when I was in your yeshiva, did you even once say tehillim or lead a prayer on behalf of Soviet Jews."  I think the story goes that the next day that rabbi was having his talmidim say tehillim along with him for Soviet Jews).
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 04:21:34 PM by Kahane-Was-Right BT »

Offline Spectator

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2009, 04:25:24 PM »

The haredi outlook separates nationalism from Judaism, and to me that is less than honest.   That is only one of the reasons, but in general, haredim can be seen wearing black hats and believe in the "learn-Torah-only" philosophy to change the world.  And the "daas Toyrah" concept that is all the rage these days, really stifles independent thought, and I personally think that is dangerous and wrong for Jewish culture.  In truth, there are sources for such a concept and against such a concept, but you wouldn't think that based on hanging out in haredi groups or society.  They'd have you believe it's all or nothing, their way, and nothing else is legitimate Judaism.  I find that is a problem in general with their outlook on Judaism.  

Re: the learn-Torah-only philosophy.   A lot gets sacrificed in order to feed such an ideal.   Working and feeding family is one of them.   I don't believe in that.   Orthodox to me is sensible, real Judaism, not an outgrowth over the past century or so.   It strives for a balance, ala Rambam, it is in this world, practical, and there is a place for nationalism and activism and the use of one's own intellect and rational thought.  And perhaps less mystical.  Rabbi Kahane was haredi in observance of halacha, but his hashkafa was certainly not.   This is where I probably fall, somewhere in a similar category to him.   I identify strongly with Dati Leumi, much more so than Modern Orthodox.   I hope I will live in Israel eventually.

(And when I say observance of halacha for Rabbi Kahane, that of course does not include how he viewed his relationship to his Rav, or how he determined when it was appropriate to act for the Jewish people and when it was not.   Because in that case, some haredim would argue the halacha is always against that.)

I agree with this to a great degree.

KWRBT, do you know what Haredim say what you tell them about balance ala Rambam? They state Rambam says: 12 hours of day must be divided in the following way: 3 to study Written Torah, 3 to study Mishnah, 3 to study Talmud (or Halacha, I'm not sure) and 3 to earn a living. I wonder whether he indeed said that and in what context.
Do not put your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help (Psalms 146:3)

Offline muman613

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2009, 06:08:48 PM »

The haredi outlook separates nationalism from Judaism, and to me that is less than honest.   That is only one of the reasons, but in general, haredim can be seen wearing black hats and believe in the "learn-Torah-only" philosophy to change the world.  And the "daas Toyrah" concept that is all the rage these days, really stifles independent thought, and I personally think that is dangerous and wrong for Jewish culture.  In truth, there are sources for such a concept and against such a concept, but you wouldn't think that based on hanging out in haredi groups or society.  They'd have you believe it's all or nothing, their way, and nothing else is legitimate Judaism.  I find that is a problem in general with their outlook on Judaism.  

Re: the learn-Torah-only philosophy.   A lot gets sacrificed in order to feed such an ideal.   Working and feeding family is one of them.   I don't believe in that.   Orthodox to me is sensible, real Judaism, not an outgrowth over the past century or so.   It strives for a balance, ala Rambam, it is in this world, practical, and there is a place for nationalism and activism and the use of one's own intellect and rational thought.  And perhaps less mystical.  Rabbi Kahane was haredi in observance of halacha, but his hashkafa was certainly not.   This is where I probably fall, somewhere in a similar category to him.   I identify strongly with Dati Leumi, much more so than Modern Orthodox.   I hope I will live in Israel eventually.

(And when I say observance of halacha for Rabbi Kahane, that of course does not include how he viewed his relationship to his Rav, or how he determined when it was appropriate to act for the Jewish people and when it was not.   Because in that case, some haredim would argue the halacha is always against that.)

I agree with this to a great degree.

KWRBT, do you know what Haredim say what you tell them about balance ala Rambam? They state Rambam says: 12 hours of day must be divided in the following way: 3 to study Written Torah, 3 to study Mishnah, 3 to study Talmud (or Halacha, I'm not sure) and 3 to earn a living. I wonder whether he indeed said that and in what context.

I am no Talmid Chocham, yet I somehow manage to spend at least 1 1/2 hours a day in Torah study and about 30 minutes a day in some form of Davening... I want to divide more time for davening because I do believe in some respects davening is more important than studying... I am able to study despite having to work 8 hours a day, and drive for 2 hours a day... I study by burning MP3 shuirs on cds I listen to while driving to work, and when I get home I watch a Rabbi talk... This is not quite studying like in Yeshiva, but combined with the reading of the Jewish books in my library I believe I can count these hours for Torah study...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2009, 06:40:00 PM »

The haredi outlook separates nationalism from Judaism, and to me that is less than honest.   That is only one of the reasons, but in general, haredim can be seen wearing black hats and believe in the "learn-Torah-only" philosophy to change the world.  And the "daas Toyrah" concept that is all the rage these days, really stifles independent thought, and I personally think that is dangerous and wrong for Jewish culture.  In truth, there are sources for such a concept and against such a concept, but you wouldn't think that based on hanging out in haredi groups or society.  They'd have you believe it's all or nothing, their way, and nothing else is legitimate Judaism.  I find that is a problem in general with their outlook on Judaism.  

Re: the learn-Torah-only philosophy.   A lot gets sacrificed in order to feed such an ideal.   Working and feeding family is one of them.   I don't believe in that.   Orthodox to me is sensible, real Judaism, not an outgrowth over the past century or so.   It strives for a balance, ala Rambam, it is in this world, practical, and there is a place for nationalism and activism and the use of one's own intellect and rational thought.  And perhaps less mystical.  Rabbi Kahane was haredi in observance of halacha, but his hashkafa was certainly not.   This is where I probably fall, somewhere in a similar category to him.   I identify strongly with Dati Leumi, much more so than Modern Orthodox.   I hope I will live in Israel eventually.

(And when I say observance of halacha for Rabbi Kahane, that of course does not include how he viewed his relationship to his Rav, or how he determined when it was appropriate to act for the Jewish people and when it was not.   Because in that case, some haredim would argue the halacha is always against that.)

I agree with this to a great degree.

KWRBT, do you know what Haredim say what you tell them about balance ala Rambam? They state Rambam says: 12 hours of day must be divided in the following way: 3 to study Written Torah, 3 to study Mishnah, 3 to study Talmud (or Halacha, I'm not sure) and 3 to earn a living. I wonder whether he indeed said that and in what context.

I am no Talmid Chocham, yet I somehow manage to spend at least 1 1/2 hours a day in Torah study and about 30 minutes a day in some form of Davening... I want to divide more time for davening because I do believe in some respects davening is more important than studying... I am able to study despite having to work 8 hours a day, and drive for 2 hours a day... I study by burning MP3 shuirs on cds I listen to while driving to work, and when I get home I watch a Rabbi talk... This is not quite studying like in Yeshiva, but combined with the reading of the Jewish books in my library I believe I can count these hours for Torah study...



Hey Muman, that is great!   Keep it up.  Some day you will become a talmid chacham, (maybe you really are now) even if you will be too humble to admit it.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2009, 06:42:50 PM »

The haredi outlook separates nationalism from Judaism, and to me that is less than honest.   That is only one of the reasons, but in general, haredim can be seen wearing black hats and believe in the "learn-Torah-only" philosophy to change the world.  And the "daas Toyrah" concept that is all the rage these days, really stifles independent thought, and I personally think that is dangerous and wrong for Jewish culture.  In truth, there are sources for such a concept and against such a concept, but you wouldn't think that based on hanging out in haredi groups or society.  They'd have you believe it's all or nothing, their way, and nothing else is legitimate Judaism.  I find that is a problem in general with their outlook on Judaism.  

Re: the learn-Torah-only philosophy.   A lot gets sacrificed in order to feed such an ideal.   Working and feeding family is one of them.   I don't believe in that.   Orthodox to me is sensible, real Judaism, not an outgrowth over the past century or so.   It strives for a balance, ala Rambam, it is in this world, practical, and there is a place for nationalism and activism and the use of one's own intellect and rational thought.  And perhaps less mystical.  Rabbi Kahane was haredi in observance of halacha, but his hashkafa was certainly not.   This is where I probably fall, somewhere in a similar category to him.   I identify strongly with Dati Leumi, much more so than Modern Orthodox.   I hope I will live in Israel eventually.

(And when I say observance of halacha for Rabbi Kahane, that of course does not include how he viewed his relationship to his Rav, or how he determined when it was appropriate to act for the Jewish people and when it was not.   Because in that case, some haredim would argue the halacha is always against that.)

I agree with this to a great degree.

KWRBT, do you know what Haredim say what you tell them about balance ala Rambam? They state Rambam says: 12 hours of day must be divided in the following way: 3 to study Written Torah, 3 to study Mishnah, 3 to study Talmud (or Halacha, I'm not sure) and 3 to earn a living. I wonder whether he indeed said that and in what context.

If it was still possible to earn a living in 3 hours a day , of course!   Times obviously change, and Rambam was writing about what was feasible and relevant in his day.    I'd like to see a person born to a middle class family (or even upper class if their not filthy rich) try to pay for yeshiva tuitions, car payment, school taxes, utility bills etc with 3 hours a day working.   Hell, if I could only work 3 hours a day and make ends meet, pay all the bills and all the taxes, yeah that'd be great!   Of course I would love to spend the rest of that time studying Torah.

Offline muman613

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2009, 06:49:03 PM »

<snip>

Hey Muman, that is great!   Keep it up.  Some day you will become a talmid chacham, (maybe you really are now) even if you will be too humble to admit it.

KWRBT,

Thank you so much for the kind words... I really have a lot of work to do. I get strength from your wisdom also...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2009, 07:25:20 PM »
Atheist vs. Agnostic: What's the difference?

Offline muman613

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2009, 07:26:24 PM »
Atheist vs. Agnostic: What's the difference?

From what I understand it is like this:

Atheist : Doesn't believe there is a G-d, knows that there isn't
Agnostic : Doesn't know if he/she believes, maybe there is, maybe there isn't...

Something like that..

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Americanhero1

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Offline muman613

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2009, 08:44:47 PM »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Americanhero1

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2009, 08:46:10 PM »

Offline muman613

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Re: What religion do you classify yourself with?
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2009, 08:47:22 PM »

<snip>

Yes but the links go more indept into the two

That is certainly true... I know that my definition is very simplistic...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14