Author Topic: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinian  (Read 5184 times)

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Offline Aces High

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Netenyahu's Speech-  He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinian State. 

How could this have been such a good speech, when he said that?

It's a bunch a crap speech!

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinia
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2009, 09:22:54 AM »
What an a**clown. To think that there are still people in Israel that consider him a "rightist" nauseates me.

Offline muman613

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I disagree with all of you...

I applaud bibis speech. It took a lot of strength to get up there and put the UN in its place. He shamed them and showed them how unfair the UN is, while standing in the UN general assembly. I saw the speech and still think he did an A+ job. Everyone, including the middle-center Jews at my YK services all agreed it was an excellent speech. I am ashamed that I am associated with a group of people who are so negative.

Bibis speech was exceptional and will go down in history as the first time a Jewish leader stood up for his own people, against evil the likes of which the world has not seen for over 60 years... He deserves a medal...

Shame on all who don't see the good of what Bibi did. My rabbi told a story about how the Lubavitch Rabbi had a meeting with Bibi over 30 years ago at 770 just before his Vort...The Rebbe gave him advice about how to be a Jew in the UN and pointed out the evil which the UN represents. I believe {according to my Rabbis story who was there at the time} that Bibi mentioned his meeting with the Rebbe.

This 'demilitarized pa state' will never occur... It is a condition which the opponent will never accept. They also will never accept a Jewish state in the middle east... The fact that he stands up against Iran and Venezuela and Libya is monumental and should be applauded.


 
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinia
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2009, 11:57:47 AM »
I disagree with all of you...

I applaud bibis speech. It took a lot of strength to get up there and put the UN in its place. He shamed them and showed them how unfair the UN is, while standing in the UN general assembly. I saw the speech and still think he did an A+ job. Everyone, including the middle-center Jews at my YK services all agreed it was an excellent speech. I am ashamed that I am associated with a group of people who are so negative.

Bibis speech was exceptional and will go down in history as the first time a Jewish leader stood up for his own people, against evil the likes of which the world has not seen for over 60 years... He deserves a medal...

Shame on all who don't see the good of what Bibi did. My rabbi told a story about how the Lubavitch Rabbi had a meeting with Bibi over 30 years ago at 770 just before his Vort...The Rebbe gave him advice about how to be a Jew in the UN and pointed out the evil which the UN represents. I believe {according to my Rabbis story who was there at the time} that Bibi mentioned his meeting with the Rebbe.

This 'demilitarized pa state' will never occur... It is a condition which the opponent will never accept. They also will never accept a Jewish state in the middle east... The fact that he stands up against Iran and Venezuela and Libya is monumental and should be applauded.
Yeah and why is Lewinsky dismantling Jewish outposts like there is no tomorrow?

This is pure bluster to mollify the Israeli right--nothing less and nothing more.

Offline muman613

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinia
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2009, 12:03:00 PM »
<snip>

Yeah and why is Lewinsky dismantling Jewish outposts like there is no tomorrow?

This is pure bluster to mollify the Israeli right--nothing less and nothing more.

One problem at a time... The issue of settlements is sad but this is not a reason to put down Bibi in the face of the world..

PS: I think that the tide is turning more to the right in Israeli politics... Just judging from the Israelis I talk to {who used to be center-left}...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinia
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2009, 12:09:22 PM »
The problem is that the right in Israel has false leaders--the Yesha council, Likud, Netanyahu, Mike Guzofsky, etc. All of these are frauds of the worst possible kind. Not nearly enough Israeli rightists know Hayamin and how to get involved with it.

Arutz Sheva isn't bad, but doesn't go far enough.

So, Lewinsky will continue to say all the right things, and then proceed to do everything Holemert did.

Offline muman613

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Here is info about Bibis meeting with the Lubavitch Rebbe:

http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=5534
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Spectator

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinia
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2009, 12:27:17 PM »
The problem is that the right in Israel has false leaders--the Yesha council, Likud, Netanyahu, Mike Guzofsky, etc. All of these are frauds of the worst possible kind. Not nearly enough Israeli rightists know Hayamin and how to get involved with it.

Arutz Sheva isn't bad, but doesn't go far enough.

So, Lewinsky will continue to say all the right things, and then proceed to do everything Holemert did.

LOL, Mike Guzofsky is not a recognized leader. Nobody in Israel knows about him. I first heard about that man at this site :)

As for the Netanyahu's speech, it sounded very persuading and was good tactically (pushing the ball to Fakestinian side and implying we want peace and they don't), but strategically it was still a fault - Netanyahu once again recognized the "necessity" to cede a certain part of the Land of Israel.
Do not put your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help (Psalms 146:3)

Offline The One and Only Mo

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ahhh Netanyahu is too confusing for me.

Offline Irish Zionist

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinian
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2009, 01:55:28 PM »
Sounds to me he is recognising an Unarmed "Fakeinstine State". How about he makes a speech saying that were kicking all Arabs out of Israel and expanding our boarders. He will be hated throughout the world but Israel will love him. Israel needs to be respected across the world, love comes next.  :fist: :fist: :fist:
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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinian
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2009, 05:44:45 PM »
I disagree with all of you...

I applaud bibis speech. It took a lot of strength to get up there and put the UN in its place. He shamed them and showed them how unfair the UN is, while standing in the UN general assembly. I saw the speech and still think he did an A+ job. Everyone, including the middle-center Jews at my YK services all agreed it was an excellent speech. I am ashamed that I am associated with a group of people who are so negative.

Bibis speech was exceptional and will go down in history as the first time a Jewish leader stood up for his own people, against evil the likes of which the world has not seen for over 60 years... He deserves a medal...

Shame on all who don't see the good of what Bibi did. My rabbi told a story about how the Lubavitch Rabbi had a meeting with Bibi over 30 years ago at 770 just before his Vort...The Rebbe gave him advice about how to be a Jew in the UN and pointed out the evil which the UN represents. I believe {according to my Rabbis story who was there at the time} that Bibi mentioned his meeting with the Rebbe.


Listen Muman, I also like Bibi (a little bit), and I think in some ways he did a great thing, and he also is less of a selfhating Jew than others we've seen, no question.  And not everything he says or does is wrong.   He's generally a proud Israeli Jew.
But come on, he's no Begin.   And even if he was, he makes a serious mistake by agreeing to the concept of a Fakestinian state.   And as great as begin was, he also made critical errors as PM, and it's okay to criticize for him even while acknowledging his overall greatness as a man.   And yet bibi doesn't even come close to Begin! 
If he really had convictions against the Fakestinian state, he could say no.  Just as he is proving by pointing out UN hypocrisy, pointing the finger at Iran, stating Jewish rights to areas of land in Eretz Yisrael... he does those things well, and many other Jewish leaders wouldn't dare.   And look, people respect him for it and applaud.   He could just as easily extend it to the Fakestinian state concept but he chooses not to because he does not have enough conviction for that.  Or he doesn't care.   Or he is in for the money.   Whatever the reason.   He could defy in that regard too, but he makes an active choice not to.   It is wrong in every way and anti-Kahanist in every way.

Quote
This 'demilitarized pa state' will never occur... It is a condition which the opponent will never accept. 
  That's part of the problem.  Because it won't be a demilitarized state, it will be a regular one.   It's a "demand" right now, but bibi has made it the Jewish 'starting position.'   You must realize muman, how negotiations work.  As past precedent shows us, the Jewish starting position is negotiated, and erodes to something more of a compromise, while the Arab position never changes.   So Bibi is giving them that first step by committing to a state.   They will eventually finagle their way to a regular state, which the rest of the world will say we cannot deny them, and either bibi or some future leaders will cave in with that.   They will say 'how can you demand them to be demilitarized?  They have a right to defend themselves.   No state works demilitarized"   - it's what they will say, and Bibi or someone else will cave.

Bibi made a historic mistake with his groundmaking decision to endorse officially the concept of a Fakestinian state.  No Likud leader did such a selfhating thing in the UN before.    Sharon was the first so-called rightist to state his approval or openness to the idea.   But no one made such a bold pronouncement of national policy like Bibi did.   This is atrocious.

Quote
They also will never accept a Jewish state in the middle east...
  So?   That doesn't mean we should give them the first steps to eliminating it, G-d forbid.

Quote
The fact that he stands up against Iran and Venezuela and Libya is monumental and should be applauded. 
Alright, but that doesn't excuse other mistakes he might make.


 
[/quote]

Offline muman613

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinian
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2009, 05:52:16 PM »
I agree that he is making mistakes. Let us work with him rather than against him. This is my hope and my prayer. He is making steps in the right direction. I do hope that his positions on settlements and growth will change. I said this to my friends at Yom Kippur. Many of the students at the shul/school I went to were of Persian descent. Their opinions on the topic were very interesting. I think it was wonderful that just about everyone agreed that this was a good step. They are very fearful of repurcussions from the Iranian midget Amadinajad. Their families are well-off Jews in Iran and they fear losing all their possesions to any anger he may carry out against the Persian Jewish community.

While the Kahanist position is indeed what I believe is the best. I also understand that the evolution of Israeli thought is edging closer to the right. I think that the day may come when Chaim may be able to go to Israel and actually make a change in the system.

I hope that this time comes sooner rather than later...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinian
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2009, 06:00:42 PM »
There are some Jews who they are so perturbed and so disgusted by the antics of the likes of Olmert, Livni etc, that something like what Bibi did is such a breath of fresh air that they cannot see what kind of damage he is ALSO doing aside from his good points.   And the fact that he is more open to hearing what the rabbis have to say and dealing with them diplomatically and respectfully, many religious Jews want to imagine that he's a great guy because of that.   Yeah, in a way, it makes him better than an Olmert or a Barak.   But there's no reason to get all excited and flattered as if he's a big Jewish hero because of it.   On the one hand it could just be a front, or a show of some kind, or it could be because he doesn't want to appear a certain way.  But even if it is honest, we should demand this of Jewish leaders that they respect rabbis and deal with them courteously.   That should be the starting point for any decent person.   So great, he's decent.   Now what is he doing as prime minister?    Endorsing a fakestinian state is not ok.

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinian
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2009, 06:03:03 PM »
They are very fearful of repurcussions from the Iranian midget Amadinajad. Their families are well-off Jews in Iran and they fear losing all their possesions to any anger he may carry out against the Persian Jewish community.


I mean gee, at some point, what is more important, the lives of hundreds of thousands of Israeli Jews who are threatened by the midgets nukes, or the reprisals that rich Persian Jews who refuse to leave galut might face if Israel decides to defend itself against the threat...

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinia
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2009, 06:15:58 PM »
Netenyahu made a world class speech at the U.N. I honestly believe he was one of the best speakers there. What he had to say was very valid and he should be respected for speaking out so plainly in a hostile venue. Israels position is not a comfortable one and decisions Netenyahu needs to make have major implications. I think he is trying to exhaust every diplomatic avenue before having to resort to stronger action. I really believe that the settlement issue is something that has been decided in principal many moons ago and even if Netenyahu disagrees with what has been decided he really can't put a halt to it. He may only be able to slow it down some.
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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinian
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2009, 06:17:58 PM »
They are very fearful of repurcussions from the Iranian midget Amadinajad. Their families are well-off Jews in Iran and they fear losing all their possesions to any anger he may carry out against the Persian Jewish community.


I mean gee, at some point, what is more important, the lives of hundreds of thousands of Israeli Jews who are threatened by the midgets nukes, or the reprisals that rich Persian Jews who refuse to leave galut might face if Israel decides to defend itself against the threat...

Obviously I agree... But my point is that there is a dilemma. It is not a simple decision to pick up from where you are doing well and leave to a new place. We realize this was the request Hashem asked from Abraham to "Go for yourself" Lech Lecha to the land which he promised. It is indeed a test and one which is not easy to overcome.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinia
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2009, 06:24:09 PM »
I disagree with all of you...

I applaud bibis speech. It took a lot of strength to get up there and put the UN in its place. He shamed them and showed them how unfair the UN is, while standing in the UN general assembly. I saw the speech and still think he did an A+ job. Everyone, including the middle-center Jews at my YK services all agreed it was an excellent speech. I am ashamed that I am associated with a group of people who are so negative.

Bibis speech was exceptional and will go down in history as the first time a Jewish leader stood up for his own people, against evil the likes of which the world has not seen for over 60 years... He deserves a medal...

Shame on all who don't see the good of what Bibi did. My rabbi told a story about how the Lubavitch Rabbi had a meeting with Bibi over 30 years ago at 770 just before his Vort...The Rebbe gave him advice about how to be a Jew in the UN and pointed out the evil which the UN represents. I believe {according to my Rabbis story who was there at the time} that Bibi mentioned his meeting with the Rebbe.


Listen Muman, I also like Bibi (a little bit), and I think in some ways he did a great thing, and he also is less of a selfhating Jew than others we've seen, no question.  And not everything he says or does is wrong.   He's generally a proud Israeli Jew.
But come on, he's no Begin.   And even if he was, he makes a serious mistake by agreeing to the concept of a Fakestinian state.   And as great as begin was, he also made critical errors as PM, and it's okay to criticize for him even while acknowledging his overall greatness as a man.   And yet bibi doesn't even come close to Begin! 
If he really had convictions against the Fakestinian state, he could say no.  Just as he is proving by pointing out UN hypocrisy, pointing the finger at Iran, stating Jewish rights to areas of land in Eretz Yisrael... he does those things well, and many other Jewish leaders wouldn't dare.   And look, people respect him for it and applaud.   He could just as easily extend it to the Fakestinian state concept but he chooses not to because he does not have enough conviction for that.  Or he doesn't care.   Or he is in for the money.   Whatever the reason.   He could defy in that regard too, but he makes an active choice not to.   It is wrong in every way and anti-Kahanist in every way.

Quote
This 'demilitarized pa state' will never occur... It is a condition which the opponent will never accept. 
  That's part of the problem.  Because it won't be a demilitarized state, it will be a regular one.   It's a "demand" right now, but bibi has made it the Jewish 'starting position.'   You must realize muman, how negotiations work.  As past precedent shows us, the Jewish starting position is negotiated, and erodes to something more of a compromise, while the Arab position never changes.   So Bibi is giving them that first step by committing to a state.   They will eventually finagle their way to a regular state, which the rest of the world will say we cannot deny them, and either bibi or some future leaders will cave in with that.   They will say 'how can you demand them to be demilitarized?  They have a right to defend themselves.   No state works demilitarized"   - it's what they will say, and Bibi or someone else will cave.

Bibi made a historic mistake with his groundmaking decision to endorse officially the concept of a Fakestinian state.  No Likud leader did such a selfhating thing in the UN before.    Sharon was the first so-called rightist to state his approval or openness to the idea.   But no one made such a bold pronouncement of national policy like Bibi did.   This is atrocious.

Quote
They also will never accept a Jewish state in the middle east...
  So?   That doesn't mean we should give them the first steps to eliminating it, G-d forbid.

Quote
The fact that he stands up against Iran and Venezuela and Libya is monumental and should be applauded. 
Alright, but that doesn't excuse other mistakes he might make.


 

Are we speaking of the same Begin  that was part of Jimmy Carter's land surrender debacle.
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Offline Manch

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinian
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2009, 06:26:13 PM »
I disagree with all of you...

I applaud bibis speech. It took a lot of strength to get up there and put the UN in its place. He shamed them and showed them how unfair the UN is, while standing in the UN general assembly. I saw the speech and still think he did an A+ job. Everyone, including the middle-center Jews at my YK services all agreed it was an excellent speech. I am ashamed that I am associated with a group of people who are so negative.

Bibis speech was exceptional and will go down in history as the first time a Jewish leader stood up for his own people, against evil the likes of which the world has not seen for over 60 years... He deserves a medal...

Shame on all who don't see the good of what Bibi did. My rabbi told a story about how the Lubavitch Rabbi had a meeting with Bibi over 30 years ago at 770 just before his Vort...The Rebbe gave him advice about how to be a Jew in the UN and pointed out the evil which the UN represents. I believe {according to my Rabbis story who was there at the time} that Bibi mentioned his meeting with the Rebbe.

This 'demilitarized pa state' will never occur... It is a condition which the opponent will never accept. They also will never accept a Jewish state in the middle east... The fact that he stands up against Iran and Venezuela and Libya is monumental and should be applauded.

Why would you be ashamed of associating with people who aspire to Kahanist ideals which clearly at odds with Bibi's political chicanery? Now, more to the point:
First: - Bibi or anyone else , including your center-right American Jewish friends, DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT to dictate to a sovereign Fakestinian state any conditions, whether external or internal. This dictate is unacceptable under the international law and will not be accepted as a legitimate objection to creation of the new monster state by the world's body.
Second - what happens when Jordanian puppet is overthrown by a popular uprising that decides to merge with then militarized or "demilitarized" Fakestine? What legal right Israel will have to intervene?
Third - where do you get such a contempt for Arabs as to tell them what they can or can not do in their sovereign state and, moreover, predict their behavior as to what they will or will not accept? Besides, even if they agree to any idiotic condition put forth by Israel - don't you know that Arabs will immediately violate and annul any clauses that will be detrimental to them. And Israel will have no legal recourse.
Forth - What other people in this world trade their ancient, G-d given land and offer it as gamble in exchange for some unfounded assertions of the corrupt leader? You claim to be a Torah scholar - where in Torah do you find that a Jewish leader can EVEN offer any part of Israel to the avowed Jew-hating enemy? Who should be ashamed here - you or the people on this forum who a faithful to the Kahanist ideals, to Torah and the land of Israel?!
Hayot Araviot Masrihot

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinian
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2009, 06:34:58 PM »
Manch,

I only 'aspire' to be a Torah scholar. Over the Yom Kippur holiday I had a chance to mingle with some true scholars and Chabad shliachs.

I don't think that a PA state will be established because I believe the fakestinians will never agree to Israels existence. Doesn't the very Hamas mission statement call for the complete removal of Israel?

Do I think it is wise to talk about such nonsense? Not really. I would rather prefer the Kahanist goal of removing the non-Jewish population from Israel and letting them settle in their own lands, like Jordan, Syria, and Egypt.

But I operate on the principle that all Jews, no matter how far from Torah, have the real capacity to come back, and change their life, to make the life for fellow Jews better. I look at the story of Moshe who grew up in Pharoahs house. One day he was horrified that a Jew was being beaten and his heart was moved to action. Could he have believed he would have acted like that? He grew up 40 years in the house of Pharaoh. And still he had a 'yiddisha Kup'.

I do not disagree completely... I am just striving to see the good.

There is time to rebuke, and a time to praise.

I am not ashamed that we are upset with Bibi... I just think that the day after Yom Kippur, and the study we do about forgiving and the kindness of Abraham, that we could show a little more support for a Jew who did stand up when he could have sat down.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinia
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2009, 06:40:14 PM »

I really believe that the settlement issue is something that has been decided in principal many moons ago

You believe this based on what?   With risk of sounding snide, I don't intend to, but it sounds like wishful thinking.   And who "decided" it?   

Quote
and even if Netenyahu disagrees with what has been decided he really can't put a halt to it. 
  Why not?   He's PM.  What he says goes.   

Quote
He may only be able to slow it down some.

But he didn't do that, he sped up the process.

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinia
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2009, 06:42:23 PM »

Are we speaking of the same Begin  that was part of Jimmy Carter's land surrender debacle.

Yes, same Begin.  He was a great Jewish hero, who made a few grave mistakes as Prime minister.   STILL Bibi could not tie Begin's shoes.   And if you have ill-will toward Begin for his mistakes as PM, all the moreso you should be fuming at what Bibi is doing because Bibi has nothing else to show for himself, while Begin did!

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinia
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2009, 06:44:19 PM »

Are we speaking of the same Begin  that was part of Jimmy Carter's land surrender debacle.

Yes, same Begin.  He was a great Jewish hero, who made a few grave mistakes as Prime minister.   STILL Bibi could not tie Begin's shoes.   And if you have ill-will toward Begin for his mistakes as PM, all the moreso you should be fuming at what Bibi is doing because Bibi has nothing else to show for himself, while Begin did!

I respect both of these men.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinian
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2009, 06:47:06 PM »
Manch,

I only 'aspire' to be a Torah scholar. Over the Yom Kippur holiday I had a chance to mingle with some true scholars and Chabad shliachs.

I don't think that a PA state will be established because I believe the fakestinians will never agree to Israels existence. Doesn't the very Hamas mission statement call for the complete removal of Israel?


Muman, the Arab refusal hasn't stopped any of the surrenders in the past and it wouldn't stop this one.  The Arab refusals only prompt "Unilateral" action instead, like what was done in Gush Katif.   That was termed "unilateral" because Sharon did not expect any sort of reciprocation from the Arabs in response to it.  Why?  Because he could not have expected that because they would refuse.   So he went ahead and did it "unilaterally" ....   A comedy of the absurd.  But this is what Israel does.      Arafat y's refusal to acknowledge Israel or "stop terror" didn't stop them from bringing him from exile to the heartland of Israel along with his terrorist thugs.   It just never ends.   And it seems the delusion and wishful thinking of the masses just never ends.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Netenyahu's Speech- He said that there should be a demilitarized Palestinia
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2009, 06:49:17 PM »

Are we speaking of the same Begin  that was part of Jimmy Carter's land surrender debacle.

Yes, same Begin.  He was a great Jewish hero, who made a few grave mistakes as Prime minister.   STILL Bibi could not tie Begin's shoes.   And if you have ill-will toward Begin for his mistakes as PM, all the moreso you should be fuming at what Bibi is doing because Bibi has nothing else to show for himself, while Begin did!

I respect both of these men.


Can't you respect someone and still know that something they are doing is completely wrong, immoral, foolhardy, and dangerous to the Jewish people?   Even if other things they are doing happen to be good things?