Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
First 5 Pasuqim Of Bereishith The Way It Should Be Read!!!
muman613:
Some of what is written on that blog sounds obviously anti-Ashkenazi to me...
Maybe it is not intended that way. But it sounds like he is trying to prove that Ashkenazim got it wrong...
muman613:
I am open to learning the ways of others and if there is truth then I will try to understand. But I don't know where this thread is going. I don't want this to lead to divisiveness.
I will agree that there may be truth in what you are saying but the Rabbis I listen to do not teach this. I will honor the Rabbis which I trust and their pursuit of truth. In the meanwhile I will accept that other Jews have different minhagim.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 14, 2009, 11:30:38 PM ---KWRBT,
I am often intrigued at your opinions on many topics. Would I be asking too much if I asked you what minhag you follow, and what your family minhag has been? I am interested because it would explain to me why you have the opinions which you have.
Personally I am descended from Polish and Ukranian Jews. As a result I believe that I have the traits of both Chassidic and Litvik Jews. My family emigrated from Uman in the early 20th century and I believe they may have been involved with Breslov chassidus.
Thank you
--- End quote ---
Muman, we are not from the same places but close. My familiy descends from Lithuania, I am ashkenazi background with yiddish-speaking grandparents and great grandparents. We also descend from other places in Europe (ashkenazic). I am a baal teshuvah and there is no particular minhag for me to uphold considering I wasn't left anything except a bar mitzvah and a passover seder in all the dilution that took place. But of course my grandfather pronounces Hebrew like all ashkenazim, with a "sav," and there may be minor customs here and there that he can remember his parents doing or not doing. But I am not in anyway beholden to do what he did, if in a particular instance I can see that something was maintained merely due to error, or lack of correction (or because where they were from they couldn't say a certain sound). If I learn out the issue and see what to do correctly with the help of Rabbis, (and I'm able to pronounce the sound) I can just do that. And if they had known, they themselves would have corrected it earlier. But back then education wasn't so widespread, and you couldn't just look up Torah sources in a google search or a quick trip to the local yeshiva with stacked-to-the-brim beit midrash, with easy access by car. And no one could know, hey, there's Jews halfway across the world and they say Hebrew differently! And even if they did, it would take a great deal of searching to figure out who's right. Only the greatest of scholars like the Yaabetz, Saadiah Gaon, etc knew about these issues in a precise way.
And the fact that I even look at the Torah, is in itself a novel concept for those in my family still living. The fact that I am keeping Shabbat and mitzvot is itself "going against custom" because my family obviously stopped keeping halacha, first gradually, then entirely. There is nothing in halacha that says "if your grandpa did x, you must do x" otherwise Avraham would have been forced to be an idolator (chas veshalom) - and yes that's an extreme example but I'm just making a point of principle, that as Jews we do not just go by "custom" even though custom is important.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 14, 2009, 11:38:34 PM ---Some of what is written on that blog sounds obviously anti-Ashkenazi to me...
Maybe it is not intended that way. But it sounds like he is trying to prove that Ashkenazim got it wrong...
--- End quote ---
"Many authorities have openly recognized the lackings of present-day Ashkenazi and Sepharadi pronunciations. The renowned Ashkenazi rabbi R. Ya'aqov Emden (Ya'abes) writes in his introduction to his famous Siddur Beth Ya'aqov: "Pronunciation must be complete and correct...particularly one must not confuse alephs with 'ayins and hehs...not to mention confusing totally dissimilar letters ...not as we the Ashkenazim pronounce the undotted tauw (tav) as a samekh, to our shame. In the matter of vowels, however, we are much better off, not like the Sepharadim who do not distinguish between a qames (kamatz) and a patah..." (new Eshkol edition p. 10). "
Sounds like equal opportunity criticism to me.
I think it is only "anti-Ashkenazi" if a person thinks from the outset that any pointing out of error in any aspect of Ashkenazic minhag is "anti-Ashkenazi." So is the author also Anti-Sephardi? Because clearly he points out the weakness/error in Sephardi pronunciation of vowels, which the Ashkenaz has as a strength.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 14, 2009, 11:41:22 PM ---I am open to learning the ways of others and if there is truth then I will try to understand. But I don't know where this thread is going. I don't want this to lead to divisiveness.
I will agree that there may be truth in what you are saying but the Rabbis I listen to do not teach this. I will honor the Rabbis which I trust and their pursuit of truth. In the meanwhile I will accept that other Jews have different minhagim.
--- End quote ---
If something is very obvious, one doesn't really need a rabbi to explain it and then to have "faith" or "trust" in a rabbi that only he has the intellect to understand something simple, while no one else can understand something understandable.
Unless that rabbi has an OBJECTION to something very obvious, with a complicated explanation for why it is incorrect. Then in that case by all means hear out the rabbi, and please report back to me how he refutes you and your new information. I am dying to hear your rabbis' explanations for how any of this is wrong or incorrect, and why a person should say "Echaa DUH" in light of this very clear and enlightening information. And I wonder how they would argue against the Saadiah Gaon, Rabbi Yakov Emden, and Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsy among others. That would be a sight to see.
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