Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
First 5 Pasuqim Of Bereishith The Way It Should Be Read!!!
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Spectator on October 14, 2009, 12:34:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on October 14, 2009, 11:42:07 AM ---
--- Quote from: Spectator on October 14, 2009, 10:11:10 AM ---
--- Quote from: Sefardic Panther on October 14, 2009, 09:32:10 AM ---The Arabic translation of the Torah that is part of the Temani liturgy is called the Tafsir.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Sefardic Panther on October 14, 2009, 09:32:10 AM ---The reason the Torah should be read in Arabic is because it reveals further meaning. For instance Allah is a perfect word to describe Hashem because the word is not male or female. The Arabic language has been a big part of Sefardic and Temani Yehudi culture.
--- End quote ---
Many Ashkenazi rabbis said that since the world center of Torah study was in Eastern Europe for many latest centuries
--- End quote ---
That was their world center of Torah study, but there were other Jews in other parts of the world who also learned Torah. I don't buy into the concept of European Torah superiority.
--- End quote ---
I don't buy it either. But it definitely has some unique strong points and we should respect it. This my response was special for Sefardic Panther who I think is prejudiced against the Ashkenazi pronunciation and Ashkenazi tradition in general. I would be happy if I am mistaken.
And what do you mean by their world center of Torah study? Aren't you an Ashkenazi? Isn't their tradition yours? :)
--- End quote ---
"Their" as in those rabbis who said it. Particular to them and not to Jews who were from (or in) other places.
"I" have nothing to do with any of it.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 14, 2009, 11:44:29 AM ---yes, it is well known to extend the daleth sound in echad and I have done this since I have made teshuva... I dont see how this is proof of this point... I say "Ech-a-D" and prolong the D sound.
--- End quote ---
Saying "Da" is not extending a "d" sound, you are actually making a foreign sound attached to the end of the 'd'
To extend an "s" sound would you say "sssssss" ? Or "SSAAH" Obviously not "Suh" You've added a vowel to "S"
To extend an "m" sound would you say "mmmm" ? Or "mmmmMUH" Obviously not "Muh" because you've added a vowel sound to the "m"
There is no way to "extend" certain consonant sounds. That in itself is proof that Daleth without a dagesh is NOT a "D" sound. "P" is another sound you cannot extend. "K" would probably be another. "T" is another.
Sounds that CAN be extended, include zzzzzz, ssssss, mmmmm, etc
Saying "echaa dUH" (like I know some people do) is just adding a vowel to the end of echad, and that is NOT what the Talmud says to do.
muman613:
KWRBT,
I am often intrigued at your opinions on many topics. Would I be asking too much if I asked you what minhag you follow, and what your family minhag has been? I am interested because it would explain to me why you have the opinions which you have.
Personally I am descended from Polish and Ukranian Jews. As a result I believe that I have the traits of both Chassidic and Litvik Jews. My family emigrated from Uman in the early 20th century and I believe they may have been involved with Breslov chassidus.
Thank you
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Spectator on October 14, 2009, 11:58:29 AM ---
I also know that the Ashkenazim prolong namely kamatz vowel (as "o-o-o") and not the dalet. But they stress dalet and utter it more sharply. I guess you know what I mean.
--- End quote ---
Do you think that "uttering it more sharply" is the same thing as "extending it" ? I sure don't. Neither did other great rabbanim.
Here is an article about it from Rabbi Bar Hayim where he speaks about this issue and some interesting anecdotes about it. It was posted into "esser agaroth's" blog.
http://esseragaroth.blogspot.com/2008/09/lashon-haqodesh-loshon-hakodesh.html
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Spectator on October 14, 2009, 12:26:38 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on October 14, 2009, 11:32:57 AM ---The resh is completely butchered into something Russian/East European,
--- End quote ---
Israeli resh has nothing to do with Russian "r". The latter is much close to Sefaradi/Arabic one than to Eastern European.
But Israeli resh is indeed butchered.
--- End quote ---
You're right, I think I meant to say German. I think the Israeli "resh" sounds like a German way of saying it. I had never even known such a sound existed until I met Israelis. Either way, it's not like Arabic. The resh is supposed to roll off the tip of the tongue like in Arabic (maybe not every dialect though). The Spanish way to make r sound sounds more correct than the Israeli way, even though that is also not it exactly.
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